2

5/21/2011 11:59:35 AM

Beethoven86 - Read this and let me know what you think - http://www.wral.com/asset/news/news_briefs/2010/01/04/6739176/Dec._30_2009_search_warrant_for_Jason_Young_s_text_messages.pdf

5/21/2011 1:43:44 PM

I'm typing this as I'm reading through it, so my thoughts may not be that logical.

1. I trust Wake County Sheriff's Office a heck of a lot more than other agencies. So, I'm thinking there's less of a chance of corruption with them.
2. It seems odd that Young asked his sister in law to go get receipts off the printer. Very odd. It is awful to think of discovering my sister murdered and my niece in such a fashion. Whoever did this I hope gets what they deserve. If it's Jason Young, I hope he spends the rest of his life rotting in prison.
3. The DNA swab from the doorway isn't that important. It's a match in the home he lived in, in the bedroom he lived in. I don't understand the rest of the DNA stuff, what it is matching with, what it's not, or what that signifies. If his BLOOD is in the room. That's a bad sign. If it's just touch DNA, not a big deal. I'm confused by the "unknown DNA" because you'd think they could rule out daughter or sister from that.
4. I would never hold invoking the right to counsel against a defendant. I think it's the sign of intelligence, instead of guilt. I think it's sad that he didn't ask about his daughter. But I think limiting conversations with the police is generally a good thing.
5. Doesn't look good at all that his card isn't used at all throughout his visit, yet he's on the security video in the lobby at midnight walking towards the exit. Are there no other videos of the hallways at this hotel? I also prop my door open if I'm just running down the hallway at a hotel, so I don't see this as indicative of guilt, but it looks pretty darned suspicious.
6. Not a good sign that the exit was propped open. My questions--did they photograph it? Did they document it in some way? Or is it from an interview after they knew a guest was suspected of murder? Did they talk about it amongst each other like "hey, did you prop this door open?" before they heard about Jason Young?
7. Unplugging the camera is a bad sign for Mr. Young. Did they check for fingerprints?
8. I have a problem with the statement "wearing clothing that has never been recovered or accounted for." The date of this search warrant is middle of 2009. Three years later. The Cary Police said they "never found" Brad Cooper's clothing, but the accurate account would be that they never looked, couldn't rule anything in or out from the quality of the video, and didn't ask for it until after he had been arrested. If that's what's going on here, I discount it. If they immediately looked, searched dumpsters, etc., and couldn't find it in home or elsewhere, that's suspicious.
9. Looks like they started searching in 2008. Two years later. Plenty of non-criminals dispose of clothing in a 2 year period.
10. They have a security camera from the gas station in Clintwood, Virginia, where is the security camera from the woman who said she saw him in King?
11. I don't particularly care about affairs. It goes to motive, and pretty much every spouse has motive to murder their spouse. It's clear they're getting divorced. But not everyone getting divorced is going to kill their spouse.
12. With all these texts and phone calls, shouldn't they be able to track cell tower location? That's more important to me than who he's texting or the content of those calls.
13. Sounds like Jason has an anger problem. But this is all hearsay, so I don't see the value in it. The person is relaying information she did not witness, and was not told by the victim.
14. If they believed Jason loved Cassidy enough to kill Michelle, wouldn't he also love her enough to know that losing her mother would hurt her even more?
15. Sounds like typical spousal arguing. I'm not discounting it, but I can't read too much into it.
16. The July 12 email is unfortunate. But does anyone honestly think if he was actually going to kill her he would put it in an email? I think I tell my husband "i could kill you for that" all the time. Doesn't exactly sound like a loving father either, but people say things they don't mean when they're frustrated.
17. He's an idiot for writing about the investigation in an email. But I don't see anything damning for him there.
18. If internet searches occurred prior to death, and are provably not tampered with (solid chain of custody, hash of the hard drive immediately, valid timestamps in Entry Modified column, google cookie verified by Google), this is going to be pretty hard to overcome. I hope they did check with google.
19. I'm not sure that bloody footprint matching is a reliable forensic science. But I'm impressed if it does actually stand up to testing, because that's pretty CSI. My thought is that they also could have seen the purchases first, and then said, which shoe does this look most like? You'd think they'd say the size of the bloody footprint found, and if it was large enough for a size 12.
20. Oh wait, I guess the shoes were too small for him anyways, so it doesn't matter what size shoes the footprint actually was.
21. If the implication that he drugged his daughter is correct, that is terribly sad. But I won't make this leap simply because he had the knowledge to do so. Or had given her medication in the past for a cold. That doesn't mean he drugged her on that night, at that time.
22. I can't blame him for not answering his phone. It's not evidence of guilt, but it doesn't look great.

I will say though--lying in search warrants, although perjury and possibly subjecting the entire contents of the search to be thrown out, is not uncommon. They release only information that helps them obtain the warrant. It's as much about PR as it is about getting what they need.

I think his attorneys were originally Tharrington Smith, right? The custody attorneys for the Rentz's.

I will say, there appears to be a lot of what could potentially be physical evidence in this trial. I sure hope it's more than just conjecture and they were unhappy, he was cheating, and they wanted a divorce.

5/21/2011 2:38:19 PM

24carat, are you with law enforcement?

5/21/2011 3:13:10 PM

^^tl;Dr

I know nothing about this case other than there was a gas station and some texts and some hotel. Will try to follow this case though, and see how this trial goes.

5/21/2011 4:18:14 PM

I, for one, find Beethoven's post very informative. I might stalk this thread as well, seems pretty interesting

5/21/2011 4:28:24 PM

I'm sure it was, the real reason I didn't read is I'd like to observe another trial from my perspective... see what sort f gongoshow is going on, or not.

5/21/2011 4:30:21 PM

Quote :

"I would never hold invoking the right to counsel against a defendant."

The Supreme Court would agree with you. Invoking one's Constitutional rights cannot be used as evidence or assumption of guilt.

5/21/2011 4:57:34 PM

But it is. All the time. Listen to the closing from the Cooper case. "And what did he do? He went to his attorneys. Wouldn't even let the police in his house without talking to Mr. Kurtz first." It's deplorable. I got banned from Websleuths for saying anyone who talks to the police without an attorney is dense.

5/21/2011 5:09:38 PM

I don't know how that would hold up on appeal, then. I'm sure if it was introduced as evidence during another portion of the trial, it would be dismissed. I dunno about closing arguments, though.

aaaand, I googled it, and yes, it would be grounds for throwing it out on appeal. did the defense object to that statement?
http://www.pdsdc.org/Resources/summerseries/SS07102008/ProsecutorialMisconductinClosingArgument.pdf

5/21/2011 7:43:58 PM

Quote :

"Do you think they've known all along and it's just now hit the media because of the pre-trial motions?"

I believe this to be the case.

5/21/2011 7:49:42 PM

http://www.wral.com/news/news_briefs/story/9645230/

5/26/2011 7:37:58 AM

Jury selection begins Tuesday.

5/30/2011 9:51:02 PM

my sister has jury duty tomorrow.

anybody else got duty?

[Edited on May 30, 2011 at 11:02 PM. Reason : /...]

5/30/2011 11:02:26 PM

Quote :

"I'm typing this as I'm reading through it, so my thoughts may not be that logical. 1. I trust Wake County Sheriff's Office a heck of a lot more than other agencies. So, I'm thinking there's less of a chance of corruption with them. 2. It seems odd that Young asked his sister in law to go get receipts off the printer. Very odd. It is awful to think of discovering my sister murdered and my niece in such a fashion. Whoever did this I hope gets what they deserve. If it's Jason Young, I hope he spends the rest of his life rotting in prison. 3. The DNA swab from the doorway isn't that important. It's a match in the home he lived in, in the bedroom he lived in. I don't understand the rest of the DNA stuff, what it is matching with, what it's not, or what that signifies. If his BLOOD is in the room. That's a bad sign. If it's just touch DNA, not a big deal. I'm confused by the "unknown DNA" because you'd think they could rule out daughter or sister from that. 4. I would never hold invoking the right to counsel against a defendant. I think it's the sign of intelligence, instead of guilt. I think it's sad that he didn't ask about his daughter. But I think limiting conversations with the police is generally a good thing. 5. Doesn't look good at all that his card isn't used at all throughout his visit, yet he's on the security video in the lobby at midnight walking towards the exit. Are there no other videos of the hallways at this hotel? I also prop my door open if I'm just running down the hallway at a hotel, so I don't see this as indicative of guilt, but it looks pretty darned suspicious. 6. Not a good sign that the exit was propped open. My questions--did they photograph it? Did they document it in some way? Or is it from an interview after they knew a guest was suspected of murder? Did they talk about it amongst each other like "hey, did you prop this door open?" before they heard about Jason Young? 7. Unplugging the camera is a bad sign for Mr. Young. Did they check for fingerprints? 8. I have a problem with the statement "wearing clothing that has never been recovered or accounted for." The date of this search warrant is middle of 2009. Three years later. The Cary Police said they "never found" Brad Cooper's clothing, but the accurate account would be that they never looked, couldn't rule anything in or out from the quality of the video, and didn't ask for it until after he had been arrested. If that's what's going on here, I discount it. If they immediately looked, searched dumpsters, etc., and couldn't find it in home or elsewhere, that's suspicious. 9. Looks like they started searching in 2008. Two years later. Plenty of non-criminals dispose of clothing in a 2 year period. 10. They have a security camera from the gas station in Clintwood, Virginia, where is the security camera from the woman who said she saw him in King? 11. I don't particularly care about affairs. It goes to motive, and pretty much every spouse has motive to murder their spouse. It's clear they're getting divorced. But not everyone getting divorced is going to kill their spouse. 12. With all these texts and phone calls, shouldn't they be able to track cell tower location? That's more important to me than who he's texting or the content of those calls. 13. Sounds like Jason has an anger problem. But this is all hearsay, so I don't see the value in it. The person is relaying information she did not witness, and was not told by the victim. 14. If they believed Jason loved Cassidy enough to kill Michelle, wouldn't he also love her enough to know that losing her mother would hurt her even more? 15. Sounds like typical spousal arguing. I'm not discounting it, but I can't read too much into it. 16. The July 12 email is unfortunate. But does anyone honestly think if he was actually going to kill her he would put it in an email? I think I tell my husband "i could kill you for that" all the time. Doesn't exactly sound like a loving father either, but people say things they don't mean when they're frustrated. 17. He's an idiot for writing about the investigation in an email. But I don't see anything damning for him there. 18. If internet searches occurred prior to death, and are provably not tampered with (solid chain of custody, hash of the hard drive immediately, valid timestamps in Entry Modified column, google cookie verified by Google), this is going to be pretty hard to overcome. I hope they did check with google. 19. I'm not sure that bloody footprint matching is a reliable forensic science. But I'm impressed if it does actually stand up to testing, because that's pretty CSI. My thought is that they also could have seen the purchases first, and then said, which shoe does this look most like? You'd think they'd say the size of the bloody footprint found, and if it was large enough for a size 12. 20. Oh wait, I guess the shoes were too small for him anyways, so it doesn't matter what size shoes the footprint actually was. 21. If the implication that he drugged his daughter is correct, that is terribly sad. But I won't make this leap simply because he had the knowledge to do so. Or had given her medication in the past for a cold. That doesn't mean he drugged her on that night, at that time. 22. I can't blame him for not answering his phone. It's not evidence of guilt, but it doesn't look great. I will say though--lying in search warrants, although perjury and possibly subjecting the entire contents of the search to be thrown out, is not uncommon. They release only information that helps them obtain the warrant. It's as much about PR as it is about getting what they need. I think his attorneys were originally Tharrington Smith, right? The custody attorneys for the Rentz's. I will say, there appears to be a lot of what could potentially be physical evidence in this trial. I sure hope it's more than just conjecture and they were unhappy, he was cheating, and they wanted a divorce."

TWW is now a blog

5/30/2011 11:04:03 PM

Dude. It's been a blog for like 10 years. Where the fuck have you been?

5/31/2011 6:23:49 AM

^^If you'd bothered to read the thread, I responded to a specific post, you idiot.

5/31/2011 8:16:46 AM

Bump for opening statements this afternoon!!

6/7/2011 10:12:50 AM

^^ reading is hard

6/7/2011 10:17:08 AM

Quote :

"6. Not a good sign that the exit was propped open. My questions--did they photograph it? Did they document it in some way? Or is it from an interview after they knew a guest was suspected of murder? Did they talk about it amongst each other like "hey, did you prop this door open?" before they heard about Jason Young?"

Those side doors being propped open at motels is pretty common. The camera being unplugged could be bad for him but if they had a print that matched him from the camera this should be mentioned in opening statements.

6/7/2011 1:02:43 PM

Quote :

"16. The July 12 email is unfortunate. But does anyone honestly think if he was actually going to kill her he would put it in an email? I think I tell my husband "i could kill you for that" all the time. Doesn't exactly sound like a loving father either, but people say things they don't mean when they're frustrated."

what page of the search warrant is this on?

6/7/2011 1:45:32 PM

Page 8 of 16 I believe.

6/7/2011 2:03:57 PM

Thanks! I must have read it and it didn't register. People do say stuff like that all the time when they are mad and are in the moment.

I do find it creepy that he typed it up in an email though.

Before I read the search warrant I think I was more on the fence about his guilt, but now I just don't believe him. His emails to his sister makes such a strange impression on me

6/7/2011 2:15:52 PM

Agreed. At the very least, he sounds like a horrible, controlling husband through those emails.

6/7/2011 2:21:26 PM

Quote :

"The camera being unplugged could be bad for him but if they had a print that matched him from the camera this should be mentioned in opening statements."

Probably not able to pull a print from the connector I'd imagine...maybe he was smart enough to not touch the camera anywhere else

Maintenance guy saying he hadn't even seen any cameras unplugged is bad

Him not swiping his card to get in the room (outside of the first time) despite obviously being outside his room points to him propping BOTH doors open.

6/7/2011 2:23:27 PM

^I prop my hotel door open any time I leave it for a short period. So if he just ran to his car, that's not weird to me. Probably not the best practice, but not weird.

Also, opening statements delayed. Still need one more alternate juror, according to WRAL.

6/7/2011 2:25:22 PM

Quote :

"I prop my hotel door open any time I leave it for a short period. So if he just ran to his car, that's not weird to me. Probably not the best practice, but not weird."

Sure, but my point is that combined with his lack of swiping to get back in his room is pretty telling....suggesting he propped open both doors to avoid the swipe trail.

he should have arrived earlier in the day, nabbed someone elses card and avoided getting hit with the camera on the way out oh and avoided being an asshole at that gas station, that woulda helped too.

6/7/2011 2:28:52 PM

Are they streaming this shit?

6/7/2011 2:30:32 PM

They are once opening statements start. Which is no longer 2:30, according to WRAL. Not sure when they are expected now.

6/7/2011 2:32:03 PM

they are still trying to get one more alternate juror

6/7/2011 2:44:06 PM

http://www.wral.com/news/video/9693625/#/vid9693625

Opening Statements now--volume sucks though.

Already surprised by the opening statements. Tons of information in the defense's opening statement that has never hit the news.

[Edited on June 7, 2011 at 4:59 PM. Reason : ]

6/7/2011 4:47:17 PM

sounds like this should be another good one..

6/7/2011 5:08:52 PM

If I were a juror, I don't know if I'd believe that Jason Young knew what the hell the "leather anniversary" was

But I do think defense is doing a great job with opening statements. Lots of specific reasons why it wasn't Young. Prosecution's opening was better in this case than Fitzhugh's horrible opening in Cooper. Already rethinking some of my pre-trial notions in this case. Unknown DNA on a hair in the bedroom. Unknown DNA on two different cigarettes in the house. Those are interesting things. No hotel carpet fibers found in the house. Interesting.

6/7/2011 5:12:57 PM

i am wondering about that DNA. I didnt hear him say the hair dna and cigarette dna was the same... or any of the other shit. they didnt tie it together.

6/7/2011 5:35:21 PM

^They can't. They really can't draw any conclusions or any types of arguments in the opening statements. It's a "forecast of evidence" instead of a time to tie everything together. Although, if the DNA had matched with another object, they probably would have said that.

6/7/2011 5:36:54 PM

yeah, i mean im gonna see how they play it...

6/7/2011 5:45:13 PM

I missed the arguments, but did anyone mention the bloody shoeprints on the pillow in the house? As much detective work that went into those shoes I would hate for them to not get mentioned.

6/7/2011 6:37:43 PM

They talked about size 12 feet, but I didn't hear any specifics about footprints.

6/7/2011 7:32:13 PM

Whats the schedule like today?

6/8/2011 9:40:40 AM

They're starting now. Jury just came in. I assume an hour and a half for lunch around 1:00. A break in the morning and a 15 minute break in the afternoon, and done by 5:00. That's what the normal schedule seems to be.

Meredith is up first (sister, and the person who found Michelle).

[Edited on June 8, 2011 at 9:58 AM. Reason : ]

6/8/2011 9:49:47 AM

Great thanks. Should be a good one.

6/8/2011 10:02:50 AM

Woot...I'm listening

here we goooo

6/8/2011 10:06:01 AM

Quote :

"Unknown DNA on a hair in the bedroom. Unknown DNA on two different cigarettes in the house. Those are interesting things. No hotel carpet fibers found in the house. Interesting."

I probably have hair from 10 different people in my bedroom

The cigarettes could be from friends or something right? Given that Jason hasn't been cooperating with investigators, do they even know all of the people the Youngs associated with?

Carpet fibers don't seem like the hugest deal...if he truly did drive from Virginia to do this, I wouldn't think it'd be that likely that the hotel carpet fibers would stay attached to his shoe for the whole journey, then fall off in the house (AND investigators be able to find them)

6/8/2011 10:09:58 AM

I just read that WRAL article...there was only one set of bloody footprints right?? The size 12 ones? Whats up with the size 10 prints?

6/8/2011 11:07:12 AM

Thats what I am saying.

I guess he stopped at wal mart and picked up some size 10 franklins and a couple of parking lot cigeratte butts. Then had to get some gas and because he had to walk in the station his feet started to hurt. Then, in a crucial error he decided to take one of the franklins off and put back on the hushpuppie shoe he bought at DSW. Crime makes you stupid.

6/8/2011 11:43:13 AM

Sister is testifying now about finding the body.

6/8/2011 11:55:10 AM

And eating at "Crackle" Barrel (earlier).

[Edited on June 8, 2011 at 12:07 PM. Reason : -]

6/8/2011 12:07:04 PM

Well the sister just put suicide in the minds of the jury.

Nevermind

[Edited on June 8, 2011 at 12:55 PM. Reason : e ]

6/8/2011 12:54:18 PM

What do y'all think Cassidy is saying in the background? Websleuths thinks it's "Daddy did it."
http://www.wral.com/news/local/audio/1119462/

6/8/2011 12:56:41 PM

She kept saying boo boo and dirty (at least that's what I heard)

6/8/2011 12:59:13 PM