When you say you love Jesus, you're actually just saying you love your own delusions. That's not God or Jesus talking to you...that's just your brain.

9/20/2011 7:11:54 PM

I'd like the Catholic church to rename itself Mystery, Mystery Babylon the Great Mother of all Harlots and Abominations upon the Earth.

Somehow I don't think they'll change their name.

Quote :

"ah, obedience of, not to. never mind. i thought that's what made you figure that was catholicism"

Yeah, I did have to go back and check again to make sure it was sound doctrine after you said that.

[Edited on September 20, 2011 at 7:12 PM. Reason : ]

9/20/2011 7:11:56 PM

don't forget alter-boy humpers.

9/20/2011 7:12:54 PM

Quote :

" ^^^^ No Its really not actually. premarital sex=sin, I also said not everyone is on the same point of their journey. "

You're missing the point completely. Two people can be at the exact same place in their journey and one of them can be a huge slut and the other a giant cunt.

You are under the illusion that being a Christian causes people's views and behaviors to converge, when thousands of years of history show this to be laughably false. Being a Christian only allows people to use wonky justifications for their actions.

9/20/2011 7:15:36 PM

Quote :

"when thousands of years of history show this to be laughably false."

I'll let a Catholic defend this one. Since that organization is mostly responsible for those thousands of years of iniquity.

9/20/2011 7:25:26 PM

You can't blame the Catholics. The Protestants are more factioned and acrimonious with each other. You would think if being Christian bestowed a divine wisdom it would show through by there being a measuarable trend towards cohesiveness.

9/20/2011 7:30:32 PM

I can blame an organization that attempts at absolute power thus leading to absolute corruption. Protestantism has faults but what denomination doesn't? But there is not one thing more damaging upon this Earth to Jesus Christ than the corruption of the Catholic Church.

9/20/2011 7:34:07 PM

Salvation by works =/= Salvation of Christ

9/20/2011 7:35:27 PM

So Christ doesn't bestow a divine wisdom. Gotcha.

9/20/2011 7:45:24 PM

LOL at sex before marriage even being a thing. I don't know where in the Bible there is a verse that says DON'T HAVE SEX BEFORE MARRIAGE. There is a rule that says don't commit adultery.
Adultery: N-voluntary sexual intercourse married person a person that is not his/her spouse.

So, if you aren't married and you aren't sleeping with married people, you aren't committing adultery. Hooray. Also, religious zealots eager to control simple minded people would pull a verse like Don't commit adultery and turn it into don't have per-marital sex. There is plenty in the bible that warns against sexual immorality, but who is to say that sex outside of marriage is immoral? Some man made that rule, that wasn't divine or the word of God.

9/20/2011 9:23:23 PM

genesis 19:30-38

9/20/2011 9:34:27 PM

Do very stout females have premarital relations?

9/20/2011 9:44:42 PM

^^

Quote :

"30 Lot and his two daughters left Zoar and settled in the mountains, for he was afraid to stay in Zoar. He and his two daughters lived in a cave. 31 One day the older daughter said to the younger, “Our father is old, and there is no man around here to give us children—as is the custom all over the earth. 32 Let’s get our father to drink wine and then sleep with him and preserve our family line through our father.” 33 That night they got their father to drink wine, and the older daughter went in and slept with him. He was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up. 34 The next day the older daughter said to the younger, “Last night I slept with my father. Let’s get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and sleep with him so we can preserve our family line through our father.” 35 So they got their father to drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went in and slept with him. Again he was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up. 36 So both of Lot’s daughters became pregnant by their father. 37 The older daughter had a son, and she named him Moab[a]; he is the father of the Moabites of today. 38 The younger daughter also had a son, and she named him Ben-Ammi[b]; he is the father of the Ammonites[c] of today. "

seriously?

9/20/2011 10:17:18 PM

Autosomal recessive conditions in that family's future

9/20/2011 10:19:56 PM

Their future is now the distant past.

9/20/2011 10:24:21 PM

Deuteronomy 25:11-12

9/20/2011 10:25:32 PM

^ bahaha

9/20/2011 10:29:21 PM

Lulz in this thread.

9/20/2011 11:50:46 PM

I totally banged Mary Magdalene

9/20/2011 11:56:15 PM

i lost my virginity to the minister's son.

it took me more than 3 years to give it up again.

9/20/2011 11:57:38 PM

some CBer help me remember

who was the dude that said he taped a quarter to his asshole

9/21/2011 12:00:08 AM

Ezekiel 25:17

Quote :

"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy My brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay My vengeance upon you."

9/21/2011 12:00:18 AM

Is that sexual intercourse? Nope. It's just Chuck Testa.

9/21/2011 12:05:44 AM

Quote :

"Salvation by works =/= Salvation of Christ"

Good thing the Catholic church ruled that a heresy in the 5th century at the Council of Carthage (Pelagian heresy).

Quote :

"Pelagius denied that we inherit original sin from Adam’s sin in the Garden and claimed that we become sinful only through the bad example of the sinful community into which we are born. Conversely, he denied that we inherit righteousness as a result of Christ’s death on the cross and said that we become personally righteous by instruction and imitation in the Christian community, following the example of Christ. Pelagius stated that man is born morally neutral and can achieve heaven under his own powers. According to him, God’s grace is not truly necessary, but merely makes easier an otherwise difficult task."

also the modified "Semi-Pelagian" belief which many erroneously consider to be Catholic theology:

Quote :

"after Augustine refuted the teachings of Pelagius, some tried a modified version of his system. This, too, ended in heresy by claiming that humans can reach out to God under their own power, without God’s grace; that once a person has entered a state of grace, one can retain it through one’s efforts, without further grace from God; and that natural human effort alone can give one some claim to receiving grace, though not strictly merit it. "

http://www.catholic.com/library/Great_Heresies.asp

Who told you that anyway?

[Edited on September 21, 2011 at 1:06 AM. Reason : soapbox ITT]

9/21/2011 12:42:49 AM

http://www.catholic.com/library/How_to_Become_a_Catholic.asp

So it's just a gift that you need to earn?

Sounds like it's not a gift, and if you earn it it's through works.

Just because official Church doctrine doesn't say


"23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25Whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believes in Jesus.

27Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? No: but by the law of faith. 28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law."

Romans


Just because official Church doctrine doesn't say "We believe in Salvation by works, does not mean it is not there."

Simple questions:

Without belonging to the Catholic church would you still be under the grace of God?

If no, your involvement within an organization is a work which is maintaining your grace.

Can you be under salvation without being baptised(in water)?

If no Baptism is a work necessary for your salvation.



To be honest all the Catholic Church really is, is just a modern day version of the Pharisees and Sadducees. They amend the word of God and search for things that are not there in order to maintain their control and power. The are very cunning and know how to appeal to the flesh of a man/woman. They offer ritual so that you may feel you are earning something, they offer a reason to exalt oneself above others. The offer a chance insight into what they deem hidden knowledge (Vatican's secret library). And they offer an easy means to "Please God" through arbitrary ritual.

They also push forth Ecumenicism, which is the beginning of an attempt at an one world religion, merging God with all other forms of pagan worship and false teaching (as the Jews did in the OT).
They openly lie about the atrocities they committed in the past and masquerade as true Christian faith, thus linking Christianity to uncountable evils.

9/21/2011 1:40:49 AM

goddamn dude, you care entirely too much about the catholic church. it's like a fetish.

9/21/2011 2:00:46 AM

It'll be interesting to see how many people bandwagon onto your statement.

9/21/2011 2:11:08 AM

isn't that how christianity started?

9/21/2011 2:22:11 AM

I am a pretty religious chick....but I have premarital relations.

I didn't read any of this thread...I'm starting where I start.

[Edited on September 21, 2011 at 2:42 AM. Reason : ]

9/21/2011 2:40:44 AM

Mike Douglas is the only white man who ever made me moist

9/21/2011 3:00:39 AM

I'm a minister's son.

I have personally witnessed many formerly devout females expressing a teenage-angst motivated anti-religious epiphany through premarital relations* with a minister's son.

There truly is a God.






























































*Just kidding they were only blowjobs.

9/21/2011 3:18:22 AM

Quote :

"Just because official Church doctrine doesn't say "We believe in Salvation by works, does not mean it is not there.""

The Church specifically says that salvation by works is a heresy. It has said so for 1500 years. I'm not sure what I can do here to convince you. You are assuming that since the Church does not accept sola fides, by faith alone, it must believe that you are saved by works and salvation is not a gift. The theology is biblically-based and is more nuanced than those two extremes. I could go into a deeper discussion of the subject, either through PM or through a soapbox thread. Given your obvious hostility I'm not sure if it's worth taking the time to do so.

Quote :

"Without belonging to the Catholic church would you still be under the grace of God?"

It is possible to be saved without being sacrementally baptized Catholic. Protestants, Muslims, and Jews are not automatically denied salvation a priori. It is also possible to be belong to the Catholic Church but still lose your way. This is a pretty big subject that's probably not appropriate for this thread.

Quote :

"Can you be under salvation without being baptised(in water)?"

Those who have not been baptized in water are not automatically denied salvation a priori. You have some misconceptions about sacraments. I'm not going to launch into a big thing about it now and then completely derail the thread.

Quote :

"To be honest all the Catholic Church really is, is just a modern day version of the Pharisees and Sadducees. They amend the word of God and search for things that are not there in order to maintain their control and power."

If you have your mind completely made up on that point, is there any reason for me to try and refute you? There have been failings on the individual and institutional level over 2000 years. The Church has screwed up over the years and have certainly apologized (i.e. John Paul's apology on behalf of Christians for anti-Semitism). All I can say is that if you don't have a central authority, you end up totally divided like the Protestants and to a lesser extent other monotheistic traditions (Orthodox Christians, Muslims). Sola Scriptura, by scripture alone, and the idea of private judgment is also inherently divisive.

Quote :

"They also push forth Ecumenicism, which is the beginning of an attempt at an one world religion, merging God with all other forms of pagan worship and false teaching (as the Jews did in the OT)."

There's nothing I could say to change your mind about this, but clearly you would welcome me arguing with you. So I won't. I just hope that at some point in your life you get to know some good knowledgeable Catholics on a personal level. That's how I learned to gain a more positive view of Islam.

[Edited on September 21, 2011 at 7:52 AM. Reason : .]

9/21/2011 7:28:10 AM

wait wait wait...i thought goldengirl was part of tdub's ho crew?

images being shattered ITT

9/21/2011 8:01:51 AM

Can't we just get back to more funny Christian People sex antics...first 1/2 of pg1 was pretty funny

9/21/2011 8:08:28 AM

Seeing people argue over the pros and cons of various Christian sects is like hearing people argue over what kind of sugar water they prefer, and what to call it

9/21/2011 8:14:54 AM

hahaha well...

Lutherans...the benefits of both the Catholics and Protestants

9/21/2011 8:57:33 AM

Quote :

"Being a Christian religious only allows people to use wonky justifications for their actions."

Fixed it for you.

I didn't realize this thread would open up a huge religious debate. I simply was just wondering how many devout females (and, at this point, males) have premarital sexual relations. It seems like almost all of them do and now I'm wondering (which has been discussed at points in the thread) if religious doctrine explicitly forbids said relations.

9/21/2011 9:45:33 AM

Quote :

"You are assuming that since the Church does not accept sola fides, by faith alone, it must believe that you are saved by works and salvation is not a gift."

Well if you are not saved by faith alone then you are earning something yes?

Every time I question the Catholic church someone says, "Oh you must be angry about it."

That begins to get old.

Quote :

"Sola Scriptura, by scripture alone, and the idea of private judgment is also inherently divisive."

Why would you not interpret scripture by yourself? Who needs an institution to tell you how to be saved? The reason they don't want you to read scripture is because their institution cannot continue to gain support and perpetuate itself if people actually read the word of God.

Quote :

"I just hope that at some point in your life you get to know some good knowledgeable Catholics on a personal level. That's how I learned to gain a more positive view of Islam."

And what would it matter if i knew knowledgeable Catholics, I know plenty of knowledgeable atheists, Muslims, Jews and Hindus. Should I merge all our views into one and say "Well, we all basically worship the same thing." Or should I pray to God and other gods as well, as Pope John Paul did.

9/21/2011 10:02:41 AM

Quote :

"JUST THE TIP"

9/21/2011 10:09:03 AM

Quote :

"Seeing people argue over the pros and cons of various Christian sects is like hearing people argue over what kind of sugar water they prefer, and what to call it"

I'LL HAVE YOU KNOW THAT MY 'SUGAR WATER' AS YOU PUT IT HAS SOME TEA IN IT AND I CALL IT SWEAT TEA. UGHHHH SOME PEOPLE....

9/21/2011 10:26:32 AM

Do Very Devout Males Have Premarital Relations?

9/21/2011 10:49:08 AM

is your date religious minka?

[Edited on September 21, 2011 at 10:51 AM. Reason : very devout]

9/21/2011 10:51:22 AM

LeonIsPro, if you want to continue this debate we can take it to PM's or to the Soapbox. I don't want to highjack. It's up to you.

Quote :

"Do Very Devout Males Have Premarital Relations?"

what age range are we talking about here

9/21/2011 12:08:39 PM

^if you do, post the thread, i'm interested in reading that debate.

9/21/2011 12:16:10 PM

LOL @ the Catholic Church. You can take many of their "rulings" and then read scripture and it clearly does not line up. When it comes down to it, the law was made to prove to humans that they were unrighteous, and they could never follow it without error. The Catholic Church are the Pharisees and Sadducees of today. They have taken the bible, and added so much into it meaning to clarify it that they have distorted simple truths, just as the Pharisees and Sadducees did with the law.

9/21/2011 12:21:03 PM

^^^^I'm an atheist. I don't date religious people.

9/21/2011 12:24:25 PM

Quote :

"Why would you not interpret scripture by yourself? Who needs an institution to tell you how to be saved? The reason they don't want you to read scripture is because their institution cannot continue to gain support and perpetuate itself if people actually read the word of God."

OMGosh. this is why there are so many factions in the protestant faith. too many people interpret scripture in their own words without knowing the culture/language/history of the time. They interpret it without any education or knowledge of the bible.

This is why Jesus appointed Peter as the head of the earthly church and so forth to guide the flock. its through the Holy Spirit that the church is guided.

/Catholic Rant for my day.

This thread makes me completely sad, tww in general makes me completely sad when it comes to religion and the lack of it.

9/21/2011 12:29:08 PM

Quote :

"too many people interpret scripture in their own words without knowing the culture/language/history of the time. They interpret it without any education or knowledge of the bible. "

So you shouldn't interpret it? Or you should?

Which bible? The Old Testament or James'?

Considering the bible is a text written by humans, I think it is open to interpretation.

9/21/2011 1:04:30 PM

Yeah, you can't say that the bible is the perfect word of God while simultaneously admitting that it is man who wrote and translated the scripture. Man is either fallible or infallible, you can't have it both ways.

9/21/2011 1:12:11 PM

I'm reminded of a scene in a movie where Duvall covered this topic. "Look son. All women fuck.". Can't remember the name of the movie.

9/21/2011 1:12:47 PM