^^that kind of baffles me. Why has Hyundai been screaming from the rooftop "Hey the 2.0T is tuner friendly!" if they have made it very hard to crack the ECU?

11/16/2011 2:49:07 PM

It's hard to crack the ECU because nobody has ever bothered to do so until a couple years ago, that's why.

11/16/2011 3:28:21 PM

The picture was of the V8. I agree they're too underwhelming for the time being.

11/16/2011 5:08:46 PM

I don't think of 350 hp as underwhelming.

11/16/2011 7:36:25 PM

I don't know why you guys have such a boner for the Genesis. I test drove one a few weeks back, and it was hardly impressive. In fact, the interior was absolute shit. Do not want.



That being said, put the girl in a chipped A3 and be done with it, if she doesn't want the 135 or Z4M (she must be crazy)

11/16/2011 10:35:49 PM

Quote :

"(she must be crazy)"

11/16/2011 10:45:48 PM

^^Because other than a Mustang what can you compare it to? And good luck saying a Mustang's interior is any better

11/16/2011 11:28:28 PM

Quote :

"That being said, put the girl in a chipped A3 and be done with it, if she doesn't want the 135 or Z4M (she must be crazy)"

FIFU

11/17/2011 1:13:15 AM

Quote :

"I don't think of 350 hp as underwhelming."

350hp from a 4.6l V8 isn't underwhelming? Much smaller displacement cars can reach that with extremely little effort.

11/17/2011 3:23:00 AM

Quote :

"350hp from a 4.6l V8 isn't underwhelming? Much smaller displacement cars can reach that with extremely little effort. "

But how does the torque curve compare with those smaller displacement cars?

11/17/2011 3:53:27 AM

Quote :

"^^Because other than a Mustang what can you compare it to? And good luck saying a Mustang's interior is any better"

well, for a 30k car I'd expect it to have the same quality of fit & finish that other 30k cars have. Mustang or not. The leather was hard and thin. There were thin, shitty plastic panels everywhere. It was shit.

11/17/2011 7:13:44 AM

Quote :

"Quote : "350hp from a 4.6l V8 isn't underwhelming? Much smaller displacement cars can reach that with extremely little effort. " But how does the torque curve compare with those smaller displacement cars? "

this...

11/17/2011 7:33:30 AM

Quote :

"350hp from a 4.6l V8 isn't underwhelming? Much smaller displacement cars can reach that with extremely little effort."

Which car are you guys talking about? The Genesis Coupe isn't offered with a V8. It is, however, offered with a 350hp 3.8 liter V6.

11/17/2011 8:06:08 AM

Quote :

"I don't know why you guys have such a boner for the Genesis. I test drove one a few weeks back, and it was hardly impressive. In fact, the interior was absolute shit. Do not want."

I agree with this. The current model is crap. The non turbo comes in at 306hp. That's underwhelming.

450 hp v8...I will take the crappy interior and run with it.

11/17/2011 10:59:01 AM

I'm not saying it's a sweet ride or anything. But the V6 model is priced well below the Mustang GT and 370Z. It's more a competitor to the V6 Mustangs and Camaros. Against that competition it does well. I mean what are you trying to compare it to?

11/17/2011 11:43:52 AM

Quote :

"350hp from a 4.6l V8 isn't underwhelming?"

350 hp is from a 3.8 litre V6, as has been mentioned on this page and the previous page.

THE GENESIS COUPE DOES NOT COME WITH A V8.

Quote :

"The non turbo comes in at 306hp."

New one coming next month will have 345-350 hp.

Quote :

"450 hp v8...I will take the crappy interior and run with it."

One of these will probably make production (hopefully!):

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/11/01/hyundai-and-rhys-millen-racing-show-off-tau-v8-powered-rm500-gen
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/11/10/take-a-closer-look-at-the-hyundai-genesis-hurricane-sc

[Edited on November 17, 2011 at 3:31 PM. Reason : ]

11/17/2011 3:31:04 PM

My last suggestion for this "older professional woman"

Beetle R (powerplant from Golf R)

11/17/2011 3:48:58 PM

lol

11/17/2011 5:34:15 PM

well this is the gayest thread in awhile

11/17/2011 6:27:59 PM

^

11/18/2011 9:05:32 AM

THX guys. <3

Looking at some cars today, will update again.

11/19/2011 12:09:13 PM

So we drove a diesel and a 2 liter turbo A3, both with the dual clutch transmissions. As evident from the other post I made, I may even get an A3 before she does. :o She also noticed the RS4 and thought that was cool, which is cool obviously. Subsequently it's added to the list.

Anyway, we also drove the Mazdaspeed 3. She liked the power, but didn't like "the steering wheel tugging" (torque steer) under power and thought it felt too murky. She also said the shifter was vague and rubbery. It is a cool car otherwise but it feels cheap. She liked the power a lot, doesn't think she needs much more than that. Overall it's out of the running as is the RX8, she thinks they're racy/boyish looking. This is also the reason the STI is out also. We went and saw one in person. I have to say, I agree. Cool, yes I think so, but def. a bit immature looking.

Here's an updated list of what we're working w/at the moment:
Audi A3 + Chip
Audi RS3 (she keeps saying she's interested in this, I'm going to look into importing a used one).
BMW 135i
BMW 335i Sedan
BMW M3 Sedan
Hyundai Genesis Coupe (thinks we ought to look at it, but is lukewarm on it).
Nissan 370z (thinks it might be a bit too racy).
Infinity G37
Porsche Cayman S (concerned about price).

11/19/2011 8:14:12 PM

that list should be 35 honda civics deep.

11/19/2011 8:53:51 PM

what about a caddy cts-v?

11/19/2011 11:27:34 PM

i got a 2010 GTI new and still have it and like it a lot. I chipped it (APR Stage 1) at 1000 miles and i'm now at 31k. running like a champ. I even auto crossed it bone stock twice in the last few months and it did great. Its a really capable car out of the box. Kinda got the itch going again and i plan to autox it and do a few HPDEs with it next year.

An A3/GTI would be a great choice for a sporty, fuel efficient, nice quality, daily driver imo.

11/19/2011 11:39:45 PM

i don't know how Audi and VW get by using 180-200hp for the last 15yrs. new R32 is 256hp. since 2004 increase of 16hp. ridiculous

11/20/2011 3:12:50 PM

has the gas mileage or emissions efficiency increased?

11/20/2011 3:33:57 PM

^^most VWs put down at the wheels at least what they're rated for. a bit underrated. A Stage I chip definitely wakes them up though.

I get an easy 30MPG on the highway. my lifetime average is 26.4 and my commute is through Boston and then highway everyday.

This is my favorite daily driver yet. So easy and fun to drive in the city.

11/20/2011 8:43:50 PM

Quote :

"chip it d00d"

11/20/2011 8:58:29 PM

^^ Yeah, it's the torque and rpm that its available at that makes the 2.0t fun to drive (though admittedly, its more peppy than satisfying). It has enough power for fun around town but youll find it lacking when you really want to drive and have some space.

I does upset me that the current TT has the 2.0t @ 265hp, I believe (or is it the TTS), but they keep the gti/a3/a4/etc at 200hp. The engine clearly has room for more, given the aftermarket's success at generating power and reliability, but it seems they dont want to step on their own upmarket's toes more than anything else.

Agreed on the latest Golf R -- it is more efficient but the gains have been small enough that it goes unjustified. The 2008 r32 (3.2l found in many audis) was a cool car but wasnt really all that much faster than a GTI -- the awd was a nice touch but not if the weight of the awd/v6 offsets the power increase, especially with a notable deduction in mpg. So while the current R seems to be more of a noticeable upgrade over the gti, I still dont think it justifies the price tag by any means. Back in 08, the r32 was so much slower than its competitors, albeit with more refinement, and the current version seems to be the same story, just four years later with more attractive substitutes in the market. The current version seems nothing more than scratching an itch for a small vw enthusiast group.

-a bitter vw fan

[Edited on November 20, 2011 at 10:02 PM. Reason : ]

11/20/2011 9:59:55 PM

Quote :

"i don't know how Audi and VW get by using 180-200hp for the last 15yrs. new R32 is 256hp. since 2004 increase of 16hp. ridiculous"

Ehh, who cares? They aren't performance-oriented cars. That's more than enough...I'd prefer fuel efficiency to power in a car like those.

11/20/2011 11:14:25 PM

European Golf R20 has 270 hp.

11/21/2011 3:43:11 AM

^still not impressive given their size and weight.

So previously this girl said sedans were out and she had no interest in any BMW coupes because they look like sedans. And now...they're back in the running?

This is why I don't help girls car shop.

11/21/2011 10:27:59 AM

^^^ but they have shitty fuel efficiency as well? 26.4mpg combined in a car that probably takes premium, is slow, and not exactly luxury? yeah fuck all that. you've identified a car that's bad at everything.

11/21/2011 11:04:13 AM

what i think is weird is golf gtis aren't that fast, aren't that nice, aren't that efficient, aren't that great of handling car yet... over all they're a pretty nice car.

Basically they score a B+/A- in everything and it averages out to not a bad car where other cars have A+ handling B+ engines and C- amenities. etc.

11/21/2011 11:20:26 AM

Quote :

"So previously this girl said sedans [and any coupe that was offered in a sedan version] were out and she had no interest in any BMW coupes because they look like sedans. And now...they're back in the running?"

I was wondering the same.

11/21/2011 11:30:03 AM

Have you driven a new VW, smoothcrim?

Do you know what driving through a city is like? stop 'n go traffic, dart, brake, go, stop, etc, etc. for 40 minutes. 26.4MPG is pretty damn amazing.

No one claims, this is a race car. Stock its fun to drive for the average joe. Chipped its fun to drive for the average enthusiast. This doesn't sound crazy to me.

The quality (interior and otherwise) of these cars is really great. The interior quality is as good as BMW. Clean and simple. The goofy blue dash lights are gone now, all white like Audis. Everything is laid out nicely. Everything is soft touch. Shifter feel is great, steering feels good. I have the leather seats and they're comfortable and supportive. I've driven this car on 13 hour trip with no prob. Its quiet, the stereo (Dynaudio package anyway) is damn good for stock.



The handling is quite good. This isn't the shitty twist beam rear suspension of the old days. The rear end is basically a Ford Control Blade which is the highly regarded rear suspension off the euro and now US Focus. The front end has tons of castor for good steering weight, solid planted feel on the highway, and good neg camber gain while turning. subframes are all aluminum and bolted directly to the unibody. It even has linear rate stock springs.

I agree that this car earns no A+s, but gets B+/A- in everything. It makes a ton of sense for a do-all car.

11/21/2011 4:30:44 PM

^ yep. I only got 22-23 in my 2008, but that was driving the crap out of it around town. I could have averaged 26 no problem if i stopped flooring it all the time [wishing for more power]. Interior is great, steering and gearbox are standouts...and for the fun you can have in it, fuel mileage is exceptional imo.

there's a reason the car has won car of the year from automobile magazine twice (2007 and 2010), as well of a ton of other awards.

11/21/2011 5:25:33 PM

Quote :

"Basically they score a B+/A- in everything"

That's my summary of a 335i, not a VW.

Nothing against VW; I don't really find them compelling at all unless they're TDI, in which case I like them a lot.

11/21/2011 8:43:07 PM

^ For the price, the GTI delivers a lot of goods. The interior, for 25k, is about as nice as you're going to get. The ride is firm but comfortable, quite peppy (torque @ low rpms), and has a great interior. The design is good, the ride is good, its pretty fun to drive, the mpg is pretty good considering the fun level, etc. If you dont mind the size/looks, its a great car.

Sure, a 335 is a better car, but it also cost 2x a gti's msrp. Your argument is like saying the honda fit is a bad car because you think a tsx is a better all around car -- well duh, but theyre not comparable. The a-/b+ is subjective given the car's price range and competing cars. The 335 is a great car, and i agree with your assessment of it, but thats not to say another car cant bring the same all around value considering price points.

11/21/2011 9:23:26 PM

I'd certainly take a 135 or a 335 over my car. Well for the most part. RWD would sort of suck in the snow and i'd miss the hatch. but yeh.

11/21/2011 9:40:00 PM

But for 25k, you can find a used 335i or a e46 m3 w/ 40-60k miles.

[Edited on November 21, 2011 at 9:59 PM. Reason : ^335xi]

11/21/2011 9:58:43 PM

Quote :

"Have you driven a new VW, smoothcrim? "

yeah but it was a tdi. I wasn't impressed by anything really. the seats were decent, though very firm, perhaps because they weren't broken in. nice steering wheel as well. I couldn't beat on it so I didn't learn much about it. im just reading stats and looking at them objectively.

11/21/2011 11:35:51 PM

I'd rather have a WRX for that price point. FWD, especially in a car that heavy, no thanks.

11/22/2011 8:34:38 AM

Quote :

"But for 25k, you can find a used 335i or a e46 m3 w/ 40-60k miles."

yep, i paid just under that for my 2007 335i with 34k miles and it came with a 100k CPO warranty - message_topic.aspx?topic=608052. I think that's about the same thing I paid for my 08 GTI, brand new .

11/22/2011 9:13:34 AM

I test drove this shit out of 2010 WRXes and wanted to like them, but didn't. They more of an A in one thing, and C-Ds in the rest. The opposite of the GTI, really. Call me desensitized to modern car weights, but 3100lbs all fueled up doesn't strike me as that heavy.

A 35k CPO'ed 335 for $25k would be very tempting. In my research they've been in the 50-60k range and often not CPO'ed. I'd still prefer a 135, i'm really hesitant about a bigger car. inner city pressure.

11/22/2011 9:26:59 AM

speaking of the Golf R....

Quote :

"In a recent interview, Volkswagen R GmbH General Manager Ulrich Richter revealed the division's "future is diesel and all-wheel drive.""

11/22/2011 9:37:33 AM

Quote :

"3 3 5"

11/22/2011 12:24:20 PM

Well this was unexpected... She drove the 135i and liked it a lot better than the A3 and it is her current favorite car, followed by the Cayman, price being the only major downside. I'm going to make her drive a 370z and a Genesis Coupe for comparison out of principle but I think those cars will not be in the same league overall. Mazda/Subaru are already out. Current list in alphabetical order:

Audi A3 (possibly upgrade to RS3 when it becomes avail)./RS4 (probably too big/expensive)
BMW 135i/335i/M3 (the 335i/M3 are probably too big/expensive).
Hyundai Genesis Coupe
Mini Cooper S JCW
Nissan 370z/Infinity G37 (rather unlikely).
Porsche Cayman
VW GTI.

[Edited on November 23, 2011 at 5:59 PM. Reason : list!]

11/23/2011 5:59:33 PM

yah, i couldn't understand how she was discounting the 135 without on looks

that coupe's hot

11/23/2011 10:27:16 PM