Quote :

"No one is arguing that legal action should be taken against Lowes because of their action. I mean, how in the heck did any civil rights movement make progress?"

By combating and working to eliminate discrimination. Not hate. That's the distinction.

12/12/2011 2:10:38 PM

Lowe's is not taking a position on the show itself. Lowe's purchased broad ad space on TLC, and they just wanted to remove themselves from a polarizing issue - hence pulling ads from this one show. Apparently, the whole situation was fait accompli when TLC signed the show.

Lowe's should not have to be required to be the moral beacon of America. If they want to not alienate any group (racist or otherwise) that is their prerogative as a company - no laws against it.

Now if you, Russel Simmons, and Mia Farrow, think that corporations have a moral obligation to take a stand against bigotry (beyond everything thing they already do -- hiring practices etc..) and want to get together and focus all your energy on boycotting lowe's -- that's fine and well within your rights.

However, I think your time will best served fighting bigotry in other ways. In fact, if you don't mobilize yourself and make a real impact, then you are being complicit in hate, and you are morally wrong. (hint: I don't actually believe that last statement).

[Edited on December 12, 2011 at 2:14 PM. Reason : .]

12/12/2011 2:11:53 PM

Quote :

"By combating and working to eliminate discrimination. "

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that show is largely about discrimination.

Quote :

"Lowe's should not have to be required to be the moral beacon of America. "

You know, there are people who say they'll go spend more money at Lowes as a result of their decision. Now, let me ask you; how comfortable do you feel living in that nation?

This is a nation where percentage-wise, there are a lot of people who are united by their belief that Muslims should not be portrayed as regular people. And even if they observe such Muslims, they feel it right to harbor suspicion of a secret agenda. These people are then legitimized by actions of big corporations.

Moral beacon? More like a magnet for hate.

Quote :

"In fact, if you don't mobilize yourself and make a real impact, then you are being complicit in hate, and you are morally wrong. (hint: I don't actually believe that last statement)."

Made sense up to the point that you negated yourself.

12/12/2011 2:34:01 PM

Quote :

"You know, there are people who say they'll go spend more money at Lowes as a result of their decision. Now, let me ask you; how comfortable do you feel living in that nation?"

Of course it's upsetting that people are like that, but I don't blame Lowe's for targeting them. Every business works this way. They just happen to have a more racist customer base.

Quote :

"Made sense up to the point that you negated yourself."

So you think everyone is obligated to mobilize, even if it is harmful to themselves? That's just naive, dude.

12/12/2011 2:42:14 PM

I just want to point out that Lowe's does give back to the community. They can't be expected to take a stand on every issue.

http://www.lowes.com/cd_charity+giving_973215566_

[Edited on December 12, 2011 at 2:47 PM. Reason : god damn i feel like a PR rep for Lowe's, when I'm usually the one rallying against corporations.]

12/12/2011 2:46:55 PM

What your literal words are saying is that if you see person A unjustly demonizing person B then it's ok to be indifferent, because after all, it would cost you to do something.

What you're probably meaning to say is that if a corporation sees person A unjustly demonizing person B and responds with indifference, then they're going to get away with it in as much as no one will sue them.

12/12/2011 2:48:17 PM

Quote :

"What your literal words are saying is that if you see person A unjustly demonizing person B then it's ok to be indifferent, because after all, it would cost you to do something. What you're probably meaning to say is that if a corporation sees person A unjustly demonizing person B and responds with indifference, then they're going to get away with it in as much as no one will sue them."

No, what I'm saying is that you shouldn't expect people or corporations to be charitable in ways that harm themselves, to a certain extent (obviously I'm not talking about losing a few dollars or hours of our time here). There are plenty of other people who will support and continue to run ads on this show and that's great.

That being said, they should at least give back in a way that is mutually beneficial, and they do, as shown in my above post. In a business, "mutually beneficial" means money or public support will come their way. With people, "mutually beneficial" means feeling good about what you've done.

[Edited on December 12, 2011 at 2:58 PM. Reason : .]

12/12/2011 2:55:11 PM

Lowes is awful for doing this. They're clearly making efforts to appease these bigots - this is undeniable. Rather than continuing on their current course (e.g. running ads across all of TLC's programming), they've decided to make a change and pull ads from one show because bigots told them to. That's what happened here, plain and simple. They made an explicit decision to appease these clowns. Now, you can argue that this is a good business decision for Lowes because they have a portion of their customers who agree with the bigots, but to try to argue that Lowes is "not taking sides" is flawed. They undoubtedly are.

Had this been any other minority group, people would be completely outraged. I'm no bleedin'-heart-liberal, but I do find this disgusting and won't shop at Lowes ever again.

(and note, I'm not responding to any single post or poster with my comments, just the general back/forth of the thread)

[Edited on December 12, 2011 at 3:29 PM. Reason : .]

12/12/2011 3:27:35 PM

Quote :

"Now, you can argue that this is a good business decision for Lowes because they have a portion of their customers who agree with the bigots, but to try to argue that Lowes is "not taking sides" is flawed."

Your logic is flawed. The FFA would argue that giving the show ad revenue is taking sides. No one is arguing that they're not trying to appease bigots, but they're not siding with them. They're doing the best they can to maintain neutrality.

How does anything in this statement imply that Lowe's doesn't approve of Muslims?

Quote :

""It appears that we managed to step into a hotly contested debate with strong views from virtually every angle and perspective – social, political and otherwise – and we’ve managed to make some people very unhappy. We are sincerely sorry. We have a strong commitment to diversity and inclusion, across our workforce and our customers, and we’re proud of that longstanding commitment. Lowe’s has received a significant amount of communication on this program, from every perspective possible. Individuals and groups have strong political and societal views on this topic, and this program became a lighting rod for many of those views. As a result we did pull our advertising on this program. We believe it is best to respectfully defer to communities, individuals and groups to discuss and consider such issues of importance. We strongly support and respect the right of our customers, the community at large, and our employees to have different views. If we have made anyone question that commitment, we apologize"

12/12/2011 3:37:57 PM

If you're going to boycott Lowe's, make sure you also boycott:

3M (Command, Scotchbrand tape), Airborne Vitamin, Amway, Anheuser Busch Inbev (Select55), Art Instruction Schools, Bamboozles, Bank of America (Cash Rewards), Bare Escentuals, Brother International (Ptouch), Campbell's Soup, Capital One, Church & Dwight (Oxi Clean, Arm & Hammer), City Furniture, Conagra (Hunt's Diced Tomatoes), Corinthian Colleges (Everst411), Cotton, Inc., Cumberland Packing (Sweet'N Low), Dell computers, Diamond Foods (Kettlebrand Chips), Estee Lauder (Clinique), ET Browe (Palmer's Cocoa butter), Gap, General Motors (Chevy Runs Deep), Good Year, Green Mountain Coffee, Guthy Renker (Proactiv), Hershey kisses, Home Depot, Honda North America, HTC Phones, Ikea, JC Penney, JP Morgan Chase (Chase Sapphire), Kayak.com, Kellogg (Special K), Koa Brands (John Frieda), Leapfrog Enterprise (Leapster Explorer), Mars (Dove Chocolate), McDonald's, Nationwide Insurance, News Corp (We bought a zoo movie), Nintendo (Mariokartz.com), Novartis (Theraflu), Old Navy, Pernod Ricard (Kahlua), Petsmart, Pier One, Pfizer (Centrum vitamin), Procter & Gamble (Align Probiotic, Crest, Febreze, Mr. Clean Magic Eraser, Pur, Tide), Progressive Insurance, Prudential Financial, Radio Shack, Ruth's Chris Steakhouse, SC Johnson (Drano, Glade, Scrubbing Bubbles), Sears , Signet (Kay Jewelers), Sonic Drive-ins, Subaru, THQ (uDraw), T-Mobil, Toyota (Camry), Volkswagen, Vtech (Mobi Go, V Reader), Wal-Mart and Whirlpool (Maytag)

12/12/2011 3:57:47 PM

^^ they made a decision that TLC is a good network for them, and placed ads on all their shows. once the bigots said "oh no, these muslims are normal!!" they pulled them from this one particular show. making an exception because one side complained is not being neutral - it's pandering to that one side that complained. the only way to really be neutral in this case would've been to say "hey, we advertise across all of TLC's programming, and we see no reason to discontinue doing so."

^ no problem at all, other than P&G i'm not much of a customer of any of those companies anyway. especially Old Navy and Gap, their shit is wack.

12/12/2011 4:23:55 PM

oh look, a company is trying to appease its customer base.

this is just smart business...the bottom line effect because of pulling the ads is going to be much less than the effect would have been had they kept the ads.

like it or not, lowes has no moral obligation to either of these groups....This type of thing happens all the time

12/12/2011 4:32:04 PM

The show, in and of itself, is pretty wrong.

OMG LOOK HOW WHITE-BREAD THESE MUSLIMS ARE. JUST LIKE YOU AND ME.

Seriously, folks. This is lowest-common-denominator tv that, because of it's subject matter, gets called "brave" and "compelling."

Companies, just like viewers, can either choose to support or ignore it. In this case, Lowe's is just making their choice. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that.



I do wonder about the father being a football coach, with the kids playing under him - can they use pigskin or does it have to be synthetic? And that's an honest question - not being inflammatory.

12/12/2011 4:36:38 PM

oh, i totally agree that they have no moral obligation. and i'm not saying i don't understand why they did this (of COURSE it was for appeasing customers and making money) - what i am saying is that they clearly sided with the bigots at FFA to appease bigots within their customer base, i find it disgusting, and i won't buy from them anymore. they can do what they like, i'm going to do what i like. and we're cool.

12/12/2011 4:37:46 PM

^^^^
I agree that it would have been a better choice to say "We advertise on all TLC shows." I just think its ridiculous to get upset and boycott them over the the choice they did make. Good luck doing your shopping...every company makes decisions like these.

[Edited on December 12, 2011 at 4:39 PM. Reason : .]

12/12/2011 4:39:18 PM

haha, thats right-

take your business elsewhere you DUMPY FAGGOT!

luckily home depot has topsy turvy tomato planters too-

12/12/2011 5:44:41 PM

12/12/2011 7:07:55 PM

Quote :

"I do wonder about the father being a football coach, with the kids playing under him - can they use pigskin or does it have to be synthetic? And that's an honest question - not being inflammatory. "

Clearly you haven't been watching the show.

12/12/2011 7:27:55 PM

Quote :

"Since 2006, Toolbox for Education has donated more than $17.7 million to nearly 4,000 K-12 public schools, benefitting more than 1.5 million schoolchildren. In 2008, our grant program contributed more than $4.1 million to schools, and this spring the Lowe's Foundation created more opportunities for learning, safe recreation and parent interaction with $1.8 million in grants awarded to 419 schools. From classrooms to libraries to playgrounds, the projects have reached every corner of schools throughout North America. "

Quote :

"In 2009, the Lowe's Charitable and Educational Foundation donated $1.5 million to SkillsUSA, a national nonprofit organization serving teachers and high school and postsecondary students who are preparing for careers in trade, technical and skilled service occupations. As part of the largest annual corporate donation in SkillsUSA history, Lowe's awarded 36 grants of up to $10,000 each to SkillsUSA chapters and nearly $250,000 to support TeamWorks construction-trade competitions at the state level. "

Quote :

"Lowe's commitment to improving educational opportunities continues with the Lowe's Scholarship program. In 2009, Lowe's awarded 190 scholarships totaling $600,000 to students based on academic achievement, leadership and community involvement. With funding provided by the Lowe's Charitable and Educational Foundation, 140 high school seniors nationwide received $2,500 scholarships."

Quote :

"The Lowe's Charitable and Educational Foundation contributed $250,000 to the United Negro College Fund and $150,000 to the Hispanic Scholarship Fund to support their emergency student aid initiatives. The funding offers immediate help to seniors who are on track to graduate but unable to pay tuition. The Lowe's Charitable and Educational Foundation grant will reach all 39 UNCF-member institutions, with the primary focus on assisting students at UNCF-member colleges in North Carolina, Georgia, Louisiana and Virginia. "

Quote :

"In 2009, we renewed our commitment to Habitat's affordable-housing work with a five-year, $20 million pledge. The new commitment through 2013 will bring Lowe's Habitat contributions to nearly $40 million since the partnership began. In that time, Lowe's has supported nearly 1,500 Habitat houses built or renovated in the United States."

Quote :

"Since 2004, Lowe's has underwritten Habitat for Humanity's Women Build program, which empowers women to learn construction skills through How-To clinics held at Lowe's stores and to put those skills to use at build sites nationwide. In May, Lowe's sponsored Habitat's second annual National Women Build Week. Recording artist Trisha Yearwood and her husband, country music legend Garth Brooks, joined construction crews of women volunteers in Georgia and Oklahoma to support the nationwide initiative that challenges women to devote at least one day to help eliminate poverty housing. Lowe's committed $875,000 to National Women Build Week, contributing $5,000 grants to 175 projects in all 50 states."

Quote :

"Since Lowe's was founded more than 60 years ago, we have been committed to honoring the past and preserving the rich history that has made us who we are. Preserving the history of our communities is just as important to Lowe's. Partnering with the National Trust for Historic Preservation, the Lowe's Charitable and Educational Foundation has contributed $2 million in grants over the past two years to restore 33 Rosenwald schools in 11 states. The small schools were built in the rural South and Southwestern United States during the early 20th century and played a major role in the education of African-American students during decades of racial segregation. Today, with Lowe's help, the schools are once again vital community centers. "

FUCK THESE ASSHOLES. KNEE-JERK BOYCOTT!

12/12/2011 7:56:46 PM

Quote :

"Clearly you haven't been watching the show."

I haven't. Just heard about it after talking with some friends.

12/12/2011 8:04:31 PM

^^lolz

tbqh after looking into it, it seems like Lowe's is the least heinous of the big three hardware stores; Home Depot is a Rethugnican operation while Menards is malevolent to the core towards its employees and the environment of Wisconsin

12/12/2011 9:00:47 PM

Quote :

"Moral beacon? More like a magnet for hate."

give me a fucking break. we aren't the mother fuckers flying planes into buildings and blowing ourselves up in crowded markets. we have our problems, but give me a fucking break, you arrogant asshole.

Quote :

"Your logic is flawed. The FFA would argue that giving the show ad revenue is taking sides."

Bingo. no matter what they did, someone was going to accuse them of taking sides. they were gonna get hit either way. thanks bigoted assholes. So, Lowe's just said "let's take our money out, it will die down," as opposed to letting these morons keep getting louder and louder in their complaints against Lowe's. Let these morons attack the show directly and then get a nice beat down from people without a profit motive.



^ btw, saying "Rethugnican" puts you in the exact same camp as Sarah Palin when she talks about the "lamestream media". seriously, dude. think about it

12/12/2011 10:19:53 PM

^ the problem is that the show doesn't paint Islam as inherently good in any way, but obviously (as anyone with a brain already knew) American muslims, and most muslims, are nothing like the terrorists you can see 24/7 on the major news shows.

If Lowes had any kind of balls or back bone, they would have made a simple statement to that effect.

As it is now, Lowe's seems tacitly complicit with projecting the idea that we shouldn't portray muslims as anything but terrorists.

12/12/2011 10:56:11 PM

Quote :

"So, Lowe's just said "let's take our money out, it will die down," "

It is loud right now. It is loud because they took action. I totally agree, they didn't have an option to not piss of anyone. But...

Do you really think they would have >17k comments on their facebook page if they had not pulled the ad? Really? They would not be in a big shitstorm right now if they had not taken that action. I'm wrong? Ok fine, point out a company that is experiencing a backlash right now because they didn't pull their ads from the program.

12/12/2011 11:36:23 PM

It is not our job to impose our beliefs upon others. If the operators of Lowe's want to be bigoted assholes that is their business. We should only consider interfering in-so-far as their bigotry impacts us. As customers, it does not, so stay out of it. To put it another way: Mind your own business.

[Edited on December 12, 2011 at 11:44 PM. Reason : .,.]

12/12/2011 11:43:21 PM

you are right they would probably not have 17k posts on their facebook page. So what?

I mean JesusHChrist. I can't blame Lowes for trying to remove themselves from this, but it looks like Russel Simmons is trying to find something to do since the occupy movements are dying out. This TLC show will NOT change america, so why even bother. That's just mytwocents.

See, boycotting is too easy, it's just taking a lazy person and letting them do that they do best. So instead of boycotting lowes why doesn't everyone pitching a fit get off their ass and do something meaningful for the Muslim community.

12/13/2011 12:05:16 AM

Quote :

"It is not our job to impose our beliefs upon others. If the operators of Lowe's want to be bigoted assholes that is their business. We should only consider interfering in-so-far as their bigotry impacts us. As customers, it does not, so stay out of it. To put it another way: Mind your own business. "

LOL

"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere"

After 9/11, it wasn't just Muslims that were attacked by rabid, nutty Americans because of demonization, it was ALL brown people.

I noticed the mosque near campus finally took the bars off of their windows, we don't need to revert just because people like you want to blindly ignore reality.

Quote :

"This TLC show will NOT change americap"

Yeah because actions don't have consequences, and disseminating information never changes things...

I don't get where people get this pessimistic, defeatist attitude.

[Edited on December 13, 2011 at 12:40 AM. Reason : ]

12/13/2011 12:36:50 AM

Honestly, this is probably one of the most character defining threads I've seen in TSB. The range of opinions is interesting, I would characterize the following:

a. Lowes actually made a good decision deciding to pull the ad
b. Both options would have upset someone and they were both roughly equal
c. It was morally wrong for Lowes to pull the ad, but it's not the business of their customers
d. It was morally wrong and it is only the business of the customers
e. It was morally wrong and we should all speak out against it

I suppose we could add an (f.) to this list, which is that legal action should be taken, but not a single person has argued that. I, for one, am surprised how almost everyone I've argued with is at (b.), either that, or they just fail to vocalize a personal belief that the action was wrong. I'm curious to know which it is.

For reference, many of the people posting on the Facebook wall are fucktard-to-the-max kind of (a.). I'm talking about aaronburro level of stupid. Again, most hope is that most people in TSB are really in the (c-e) range but stall in overtly saying so.

[Edited on December 13, 2011 at 1:14 AM. Reason : ]

12/13/2011 1:14:11 AM

^
b-c. It wasn't the best choice, but it's not morally wrong for them to take a neutral stance on one issue, considering the ridiculous amount of charity they already give, including charity to minority groups.

They're choosing their battles as they see fit. Obviously they didn't intend for this to blow up like it did.

[Edited on December 13, 2011 at 3:07 AM. Reason : .]

12/13/2011 3:06:16 AM

Quote :

"the problem is that the show doesn't paint Islam as inherently good in any way, but obviously (as anyone with a brain already knew) American muslims, and most muslims, are nothing like the terrorists you can see 24/7 on the major news shows. If Lowes had any kind of balls or back bone, they would have made a simple statement to that effect."

which would have been taking a side. it's like you can't read or think, dude. even if you think it's a reasonable side to take, it's still taking a side.

Quote :

"As it is now, Lowe's seems tacitly complicit with projecting the idea that we shouldn't portray muslims as anything but terrorists."

only to ignorant fools who equate it as such.

Quote :

"Do you really think they would have >17k comments on their facebook page if they had not pulled the ad?"

I imagine the stupid morons could muster up that much outrage over time.

Quote :

""Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere""

yep, not sponsoring a specific meaningless show really is a horrible injustice. it's really up there with Auschwitz and the like.

12/13/2011 6:32:28 AM

just an ordinary person, who's down with the "struggle"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPjpqiCxc4o

she is arguably anyone that you guys would jump to defend, up until she showed her true colors. but seriously, wtf am I even talking about - 90% of you guys would probably defend her even still and claim that she's in the mainstream of american thought

12/13/2011 8:17:06 AM

^ No one questioned her on her stance on a Jewish genocide, although the speaker acts like he did. She got a question with 2 links:

a. That an official position of Hammas can be unraveled to be genocide
b. That she renounces them for this genocide position

Look, I don't know what Hammas's positions are, but I have no basis to say whether {a} is true or not. It is my suspicion that the speaker's assumption of {a} is non-trivial in the first place. Now anyone should agree with {b given a}, I mean, dear God I hope everyone agrees with {b given a}

But that's not what she was asked. She was asked "{b}?", and she sucked at answering the question, because she answered {} and people took it to be {!b}.

12/13/2011 10:34:26 AM

Quote :

"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere"

How is Lowes deciding to not give their own money to a bunch of rich mostly white people unjust? (forgive me for assuming the owners of Discovery Communications to be rich).

Answer is, it is not. Lowes has a natural right to be dicks. So mind your own damn business.

Why? Because if you don't, and a choice to stop giving money to rich mostly white people becomes unjust, then in the future Lowes will simply never give money to rich mostly white people because you have made such patterns of trade crushingly permanent, preventing such shows from ever getting on the air in the first place, not just cancelled due to loss of advertisers.

[Edited on December 13, 2011 at 11:05 AM. Reason : .,.]

12/13/2011 11:03:53 AM

The speaker quoted the Hamas leader's own words that he would like to genocide jewish people and she was asked directly if she supported this. She said, "yes"


This is totally mainstream...

[Edited on December 13, 2011 at 11:16 AM. Reason : ]

12/13/2011 11:15:51 AM

Quote :

"The speaker quoted the Hamas leader's own words that he would like to genocide jewish people "

That's wrong, he paraphrased the head of Hezbollah.

He didn't ask her about Hezbollah.

Please, feel free to clarify further what went on in that video, because by all means I don't understand it very well. But apparently you don't either.

12/13/2011 11:31:29 AM

the speaker indicated that he experienced this same reaction from MSA leaders he encountered before.

thereby indicating that this belief structure might be more mainstream than you think.

relevant to this thread i suppose because the TLC show represents whitebread muslims who are the supposedly hard to find normal ones?

idk. this thread i think has been derailed, although i found the video to be somewhat interesting.

[Edited on December 13, 2011 at 2:04 PM. Reason : the hitler youth thing was weird-]

12/13/2011 2:02:45 PM

What a surprise, Capitalist corporation relies on bigots for profits, puts their feelings first.

12/13/2011 2:14:56 PM

The video did make the point well. She appears to be very extreme, that, or completely clueless, although I'm not sure how different those two are.

The relevant claim was that if you asked the "ordinary" Muslims on the show these questions they would revel to be secretly extreme. I think this is false. Although the Muslims I know feel strongly about Palestine, they will agree with the need for a 2-state solution. The perception you get can be almost a direct result of the questions you ask.

But it's probably correct that ordinary Muslims will have conflicted feelings about Hamas, I don't doubt that, but if I remember correctly this is a group who's won elections before. So instead of trying to make indirect connections between a group and terrorism, and then between the group and broad Muslim support, why not just get to the issue?

- support of terrorism on citizens to achieve objectives?
- belief that Jews should be either removed from Israel or killed?

I think the answer for virtually all of them is "no" to both of these.

12/13/2011 2:17:16 PM

i wish i had muslim friends so we could compare notes.

12/13/2011 2:20:45 PM

Quote :

"A new Gallup poll, released Aug. 2, found that 81 percent of Muslim Americans support a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, with 78 percent of Jewish Americans in support. The poll revealed that Muslim and Jewish Americans share common values on key questions. For example, Jews and Muslims were the only religious groups surveyed in which a majority backed President Barack Obama. The poll showed that 70 percent of Jewish Americans deny that Muslim Americans sympathize with the al-Qaeda terrorist group and 80 percent agree that Muslims are loyal to the United States. In addition, the poll showed, 89 percent of Muslim Americans say there is never a justification for attacks on civilians, compared to 75 percent of Jewish Americans (and 79 percent of Mormon Americans and 71 percent of Protestant and Catholic Americans). On another topic, 72 percent of Muslim Americans say they sufficiently vocal in condemning terror, but 65 percent of Jewish Americans said that Muslims were not vocal enough — perhaps suggesting that U.S. Muslims have not found appropriate outlets to make themselves heard. Interestingly, Jewish respondents were slightly more likely than Muslims to believe that Muslims face prejudice in American society."

[Edited on December 13, 2011 at 3:06 PM. Reason : .]

12/13/2011 3:05:52 PM

Quote :

"The perception you get can be almost a direct result of the questions you ask."

I guess you're right..

If you ask them, "do you support the hezbollah position to kill all jews" you will get a bad perception.

If you ask them, "Are you just a nice person who is misunderstood?" then you will get a good perception.

12/13/2011 3:33:00 PM

Quote :

"If you ask them, "do you support the hezbollah position to kill all jews" you will get a bad perception."

And as you've shown, you seem to think an answer to this question of "I support Hamas" is sufficient to draw conclusions.

12/13/2011 5:45:21 PM

Quote :

"I do wonder about the father being a football coach, with the kids playing under him - can they use pigskin or does it have to be synthetic? And that's an honest question - not being inflammatory."

i could see how this would be an issue...if footballs were actually made of pigskin

12/13/2011 6:09:00 PM

mrfrog has a hearing disability. here's the transcript, son.

Horowitz: ‘Okay, I’ll put it to you this way. I am a Jew. The head of Hizbollah has said that he hopes that we will gather in Israel so he doesn’t have to hunt us down globally. For or Against it?

Muslim Student Assc Member: For it.

12/13/2011 7:38:44 PM

I think mrfrog's naivety and lack of critical reasoning skills can be summed up by the following quote

Quote :

" [...]She got a question with 2 links: a. That an official position of Hammas can be unraveled to be genocide b. That she renounces them for this genocide position Look, I don't know what Hammas's positions are, but I have no basis to say whether {a} is true or not. It is my suspicion that the speaker's assumption of {a} is non-trivial in the first place. Now anyone should agree with {b given a}, I mean, dear God I hope everyone agrees with {b given a}"

Now let's put aside the entire sophomoric analysis of the question, and take the last statement.

While I concede that "anyone should agree" and "I hope everyone agrees", we know that, in fact, this is not true (hell history has proven that). Her responses give me no inkling that she denounces a genocide against Jews.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7cf2pyTupk

Quote :

""The [Jews] are brought in droves to Palestine so that the Palestinians – and the Islamic nation behind them – will have the honor of annihilating the evil of this gang." "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yunis_Al_Astal

Quote :

" Oh Allah, take your enemies, the enemies of Islam. Oh Allah, take the Jews, the treacherous aggressors. Oh Allah, take this profligate, cunning, arrogant band of people. Oh Allah, they have spread much tyranny and corruption in the land. Pour Your wrath upon them, oh our God. Lie in wait for them. Oh Allah, You annihilated the people of Thamoud at the hand of a tyrant, and You annihilated the people of 'Aad with a fierce, icy gale, and You destroyed the Pharaoh and his soldiers — oh Allah, take this oppressive, tyrannical band of people. Oh Allah, take this oppressive, Jewish Zionist band of people. Oh Allah, do not spare a single one of them. Oh Allah, count their numbers, and kill them, down to the very last one.[56]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yusuf_al-Qaradawi

[Edited on December 13, 2011 at 9:02 PM. Reason : b]

12/13/2011 9:00:18 PM

stewart is tearing this shit up tonight-

12/13/2011 11:07:25 PM

History is written by the victors.

12/13/2011 11:22:20 PM

It used to be the losers moved to America and lived happily ever after. What went wrong?

12/14/2011 12:21:25 AM

Quote :

"Question for people ITT: Do you donate money/time to every issue you deem important? If not, does that make you "disgusting"?"

If you're already donating, and then you stop because Cletus down the street says he will stop sending you christmas cards unless you stop, then yeah that is pretty disgusting.

12/14/2011 9:24:47 AM

If anything Lowes was donating to Discovery Communications and themselves (advertising is for self gain) not a real "cause" if you will.

12/14/2011 10:17:52 AM