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7/24/2013 7:39:13 PM

vidya is dead

7/24/2013 7:56:59 PM

Quote :

"Why not Buddhism, or Hinduism, or Taoism?"

if you have to ask this question, you probably definitely don't know anything about buddhism, hinduism, or taoism

[Edited on July 24, 2013 at 8:49 PM. Reason : .]

7/24/2013 8:47:21 PM

Quote :

"Christians are the most annoying with their religion."

as an atheist i find atheists the most annoying

7/24/2013 9:45:41 PM

Quote :

""Why not Buddhism, or Hinduism, or Taoism?""

...because Buddhists, Taoists, and Hindus are not a large percentage of our population which try to use their religious beliefs to justify legislation which hinders science and education, limits women's health and family planning options, and neglects the rights of others who don't believe like them.

7/24/2013 9:52:47 PM

Quote :

"Christians are the most annoying with their religion."

as an atheist interested in taoism and pantheism generally, whose had 3 muslim roommates from Saudi Arabia who each say they'd kill their respective sisters, if they found them to have had sex with a man they were not married to, i find annoying people to be the most annoying when talking about their religion

7/25/2013 1:10:54 AM

That guy was picking on Christians because he was really picking on Americans. And hating on Americans gets cheap laughs overseas

7/25/2013 4:53:54 AM

Quote :

"interested in taoism"

just finished reading the tao te ching

7/25/2013 8:45:43 AM

I dont follow any isms.

7/25/2013 8:50:09 AM

you don't have to follow anything to learn from it

but the tao is present whether or not you follow it

[Edited on July 25, 2013 at 8:57 AM. Reason : .]

7/25/2013 8:53:41 AM

I'd rather read books about Gettsyburg.

7/25/2013 8:56:55 AM

word

7/25/2013 9:00:04 AM

BOOKS!?!?! WHAT DO THEY DO???!?!?

I loosely follow Taoism, but I'm listed as an agnostic and rather take my time to learning more worldly things like particle physics and how to scratch my balls without looking like a fool in public...

7/25/2013 10:11:57 AM

at least with islamic radicals they dont like chicks on the rag, and think of them as unclean.


then again they want to directly kill you, and not just stab you in the back at every turn socially...

I dunno.

7/25/2013 11:05:02 AM

this is something i've genuinely struggled with more of late, figured i'd get it off my chest here somewhat anonymously...

I've tried, but I just don't believe in God or any other higher power. It just doesn't make any sense to me, no matter how I try to rationalize it. I try because I've been raised in the south. I'm no redneck/hick, but I sure as hell am southern. and I love that. but everyone I know is Christian. I was raised in a Christian household. my wife is Christian. we have a 3 year old son that I'm sure will have questions about God and religion. that's what really started me off trying to "get it"... but as I grow older, I just become more and more sure that I won't ever believe in it. but I don't talk about it with anyone. no one I know (closely) will understand. but the worst part about not believing and not talking about it is that I'm afraid I will be judged more harshly by those people than anything ever. i think it's such a fundamental difference (i feel) that I'm afraid the people I love will think less of me. lately it's become more and more of a burden to bear...

edit to say that I don't believe there's NOT a higher power, so I take an agnostic approach to it all. I don't dislike religion per se, and in general it doesn't offend me.


anyone else feel this way?

[Edited on July 25, 2013 at 5:07 PM. Reason : ]

7/25/2013 5:04:18 PM

as i've gotten older i've gotten more and more confident that there isn't a higher power. but i keep pretty quiet about it. only those very close, or those that i am sure are like-minded really know my beliefs about it. unless somebody directly asks me, i keep it to myself. it upsets my mom greatly because she's afraid we won't get to hang-out in heaven, so i try my best not to talk about it with her.

7/25/2013 5:14:38 PM

I simply can't understand how someone could actually fall for a religion... just makes me think my christian friends are less intelligent than my atheist friends.

7/25/2013 5:21:14 PM

i think most people "fall" because of tradition. and fear.

7/25/2013 5:23:06 PM

Quote :

"it upsets my mom greatly because she's afraid we won't get to hang-out in heaven"

eternity with mom doesn't sound like any heaven to me

7/25/2013 5:24:57 PM

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

7/25/2013 5:29:06 PM

^^^^^^I'm pretty much the same. Raised in the South, grew up in a very religious home, lots of preachers in the family, went to church 4 times a week.

To me the whole bible story just makes no sense at all. I do talk about it with my parents but not with any other aunts/uncles. Although it's usually less of a discussion and more of them trying to convince me that they're right by using the same arguments I've already heard a dozen times. It's easier for me because I don't live near them at all and I just visit them once or twice a year.

What finally made me basically tell my parents I was an atheist was because of discussing political issues with them. Their views are so filtered through their religious beliefs that I just couldn't stand to not say anything anymore. For example, when they said that Obama being elected was predicted in the bible because he is the muslim antichrist who will abandon Israel and kick off the end times, I just couldn't listen to that type of shit anymore. (note, I'm not a huge fan of Obama, but come on)

I respect everyone's right to believe what they want but unlike you, I dislike religion. Raising kids to believe they are born sinners and will burn in hell, suffering immeasurably for all eternity unless they "believe" is ridiculous to me.

[Edited on July 25, 2013 at 5:53 PM. Reason : ^^^^^^]

7/25/2013 5:53:02 PM

i am a christian

i do not believe my religion, or anyone else's, should influence government or politics whatsoever

i believe evolution undoubtedly occurred, and do not treat the bible as a textbook

i believe christians largely deserve the criticism they receive, not because of what the religion tells them to do, but how they interpret it. jesus did good deeds, led by example, and embraced the "least of these", people society shunned. too many christians just "talk the talk", their actions not actually reflecting the religion whatsoever.

i'm willing to talk about my beliefs, but i never try to convert or "save" atheists. i wouldn't be telling them anything they hadn't heard...everyone has to make up their own mind.

this will probably be my first and last post regarding religion on tww...flame on!

7/25/2013 8:32:13 PM

on the contrary, I find you an entirely reasonable human being

Quote :

"i do not believe my religion, or anyone else's, should influence government or politics whatsoever"

and

Quote :

"i'm willing to talk about my beliefs, but i never try to convert or "save" atheists. i wouldn't be telling them anything they hadn't heard...everyone has to make up their own mind."

are thing things I wish more Christians understood

mostly, I find that what bothers me is the need for some Christians to shove some of their more narrow-minded beliefs down everyone else's throat, especially with regard to women's issues or gay rights

I realize not all Christians are like that, and that the ones who are just make you all look bad

but I was raised Baptist and had too many people tell me that my gay friends were going to hell

Quote :

"i think most people "fall" because of tradition. and fear."

The worst reasons, really. Until you challenge those around you to think about what it is they truly believe, you're doing them a disservice. I'd even say especially in the case of your own children. Don't you want them to decide for themselves, BrickTop?

[Edited on July 25, 2013 at 8:49 PM. Reason : Don't be afraid.]

7/25/2013 8:42:08 PM

I don't find belief based on faith "reasonable" in the least, but that's just me.

I think the message of Jesus (believe in me and love me with all your heart without a single shred of evidence that I exist or be tortured infinitely) is massively more abhorrent than any of the Old Testament bigotry. Justifying for anyone that faith is virtuous is insanity.

7/25/2013 10:04:37 PM

^Well fuck you then, if you're gonna be like that.

7/25/2013 11:23:49 PM

7/26/2013 9:15:15 AM

Quote :

"I don't find belief based on faith "reasonable" in the least, but that's just me. Justifying for anyone that faith is virtuous is insanity."

I was talking about his approach to his religion (not being super evangelical, etc) as being reasonable, not his beliefs

But I get why people are religious: it's comforting to them to think of someone up there paying attention to them

7/26/2013 9:48:17 AM

Quote :

"The worst reasons, really. Until you challenge those around you to think about what it is they truly believe, you're doing them a disservice. I'd even say especially in the case of your own children. Don't you want them to decide for themselves, BrickTop? "

I absolutely want my son to decide for himself. But it will be a while before he is capable of truly independent thought. He's 3 now.

we don't go to church now. for most of 2011-2012, we found a church and went on a regular basis. went to sunday school, went to some 'extracurricular' events. my son went to the daycare/sunday school for young'ns. he enjoyed it, but IMO it was more of a different environment with other kids, toys and crafts to play with than what he was used to. taking a step back to think about it, forcing any belief on toddler-age (and up) kids just doesn't seem fair - they take things at face value, and aren't capable of reasoning (for or against it). if at any time he feels Christ exists, then that's fine. i will love him no less for it.

7/26/2013 1:15:49 PM

Quote :

"taking a step back to think about it, forcing any belief on toddler-age (and up) kids just doesn't seem fair - they take things at face value, and aren't capable of reasoning (for or against it). "

You have a duty to teach your children how to grow into self-sufficient adults and to teach them about the Universe as it exists. There's no absolute guarantee that science is the end-all be all of reality, but given its track record it's clear that "forcing" science on children is not only right thing to do, it's the necessary thing to do. Not all "beliefs" are equally valid.

7/26/2013 5:07:31 PM

Quote :

"this is something i've genuinely struggled with more of late, figured i'd get it off my chest here somewhat anonymously... I've tried, but I just don't believe in God or any other higher power. It just doesn't make any sense to me, no matter how I try to rationalize it. I try because I've been raised in the south. I'm no redneck/hick, but I sure as hell am southern. and I love that. but everyone I know is Christian. I was raised in a Christian household. my wife is Christian. we have a 3 year old son that I'm sure will have questions about God and religion. that's what really started me off trying to "get it"... but as I grow older, I just become more and more sure that I won't ever believe in it. but I don't talk about it with anyone. no one I know (closely) will understand. but the worst part about not believing and not talking about it is that I'm afraid I will be judged more harshly by those people than anything ever. i think it's such a fundamental difference (i feel) that I'm afraid the people I love will think less of me. lately it's become more and more of a burden to bear... edit to say that I don't believe there's NOT a higher power, so I take an agnostic approach to it all. I don't dislike religion per se, and in general it doesn't offend me. anyone else feel this way?"

Dude I hear you! I was also raised as a Christian and it’s an interesting time in your life when you realize everything you have been taught as a child regarding God is a big fat lie. This is the deal. Evolution is a fact! We were not created in our current form and the Earth is much older than 10,000 years. SO the whole Creation thing is crap. If the Creation thing is crap that means Adam and Eve never existed. If Adam and Eve never existed that means the whole Jesus (Second Adam) redeeming mankind for Adam’s first sin is bullshit. Which means Jesus never had to exist and probably didn’t. Which means this whole Christian religion thing falls flat on its face.

Anyway…good luck with the wife and the kid. Do yourself a favor and pick up a copy of “Parenting Beyond Belief” by Dale McGowen. Fortunately my wife believes the same as I do. We are raising our son to be a critical thinker. He asks some pretty deep questions sometimes.

7/26/2013 5:39:07 PM

http://www.upworthy.com/best-explanation-of-religion-i-have-ever-heard-and-im-practically-an-atheist

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

8/6/2013 2:32:54 PM

^^I though it was pretty well documented that Jesus actually existed, and was crucified? He just wasn't birthed from a virgin, nor was he the son of god

8/6/2013 2:35:43 PM

Israel never existed

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

8/7/2013 10:26:17 AM

^^^
what a moron. it is not scientifically proven that god exists, therefore he is endangering our progress of rational thought.

seriously, how dare he teach a message of love and self-improvement.

[Edited on August 7, 2013 at 10:58 AM. Reason : .]

8/7/2013 10:58:21 AM

i dont believe in christianity but my ex wife and 8 yr old daughter do. ex wifey was pissed when i told my daughter there is no santa clause last year. i feel that it's wrong to lie to your kids but it really should be a decision both parents make so i have been avoiding talking about it with my daughter. there doesnt appear to be a good solution

8/7/2013 5:34:50 PM

Quote :

"^^I though it was pretty well documented that Jesus actually existed, and was crucified? He just wasn't birthed from a virgin, nor was he the son of god"

Outside of the Gospels, compiled decades at least after the supposed events, nope.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sathya_Sai_Baba

Sathya Sai Baba has millions of contemporary witnesses to his miracles and divinity in this millennium, not two thousand years ago. If this isn't compelling to you, but you still believe the Jesus story then you just proved that you believe what you want rather than having a solid foundation of belief.

Superstition is rote wishful thinking and religion is man taking advantage of you for it.

8/7/2013 8:47:46 PM

doesn't your existence pretty much destroy atheism

I mean like

we can totally see that you registered on TWW 11 years ago, oh Holy one

8/7/2013 8:50:23 PM

^^

Will Durant (an agnostic and pretty brilliant man) on the "Jesus never existed" theory

Quote :

"That a few simple men should in one generation have invented so powerful and appealing a personality, so loft an ethic and so inspiring a vision of human brotherhood, would be a miracle far more incredible than any recorded in the Gospel."

for this and other reasons, I'm pretty convinced that Jesus existed.

8/7/2013 11:20:19 PM

By that same rationale, Gilgamesh, Hercules, and King Arthur all are likely to exist.

I think I'll go with actual historical evidence instead of someone's gut feeling that you happen to agree with.

I'm not saying it's impossible that a person named Jesus didn't lead a jewish cult in 1st century Judea, I'm just saying there is a strange dearth of evidence that he did or that he was actually anything more than a cult leader.

[Edited on August 8, 2013 at 7:39 AM. Reason : .]

8/8/2013 7:37:03 AM

8/8/2013 7:48:29 AM

The most damning thing to me is the fact that no one wrote about him until at least 40 years after his death. Doesn't seem likely that Jesus existed at all.

8/8/2013 8:13:08 AM

Quote :

"I'm not saying it's impossible that a person named Jesus didn't lead a jewish cult in 1st century Judea, I'm just saying there is a strange dearth of evidence that he did or that he was actually anything more than a cult leader."

this. also, even if Jesus did exist, we know that Adam did not exist thus no reason for Jesus to provide a ransom sacrifice. Christianity debunked!!

8/8/2013 8:32:56 AM

there is only one true god, and he demands your worship in the form of $35

8/8/2013 8:39:38 AM

Quote :

"I'm not saying it's impossible that a person named Jesus didn't lead a jewish cult in 1st century Judea, I'm just saying there is a strange dearth of evidence that he did or that he was actually anything more than a cult leader."

jesus existing doesn't prove anything about christianity, so there's no reason to be hostile toward the idea. the bible was written by men with agendas. in all likelihood, he was an enlightened spiritual teacher (such as Siddhartha Gautama), and his message was perverted over time. or maybe he never existed at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ

[Edited on August 8, 2013 at 8:57 AM. Reason : .]

8/8/2013 8:56:33 AM

I'm not "hostile" to the idea, just stating the facts as they exist. Thanks to thousands of years of white people saying "yeah, he existed" it's taken as a de facto fact that he at least was a person, but the evidence just isn't there.

8/8/2013 9:08:53 AM

but i just posted two pieces of evidence

8/8/2013 9:14:32 AM

Yawn.

Both Josephus and Tacitus are evidence of early Christians, not Jesus himself. People talking about Jesus a century after his death is not evidence that he was a real person.

And that truly is my point. Josephus and Tacitus are the best (and essentially the only, you're not breaking out Pliny the Younger?) extra Biblical accounts for Jesus and they're lousy.

[Edited on August 8, 2013 at 9:37 AM. Reason : .]

8/8/2013 9:37:03 AM

They actually both mention Jesus specifically (or Christ)

Quote :

""Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judæa, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind"."

Quote :

"And now Caesar, upon hearing the death of Festus, sent Albinus into Judea, as procurator. But the king deprived Joseph of the high priesthood, and bestowed the succession to that dignity on the son of Ananus, who was also himself called Ananus... Festus was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled the sanhedrin of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others; and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned"

You can choose to believe that this isn't enough evidence, but you certainly can't make these definitive claims:

Quote :

"I think I'll go with actual historical evidence instead of someone's gut feeling that you happen to agree with."

Quote :

"just stating the facts as they exist."

Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_silence

[Edited on August 8, 2013 at 9:44 AM. Reason : .]

8/8/2013 9:43:33 AM

It appears that Josephus (born 37 AD) wrote about Jesus in 94 AD and Tacitus (born 56 AD) in 116 AD. Neither were even alive at the time of Jesus' death. I find it hard to use their writings as hard evidence for his existence.

8/8/2013 9:46:48 AM

did someone call Jesus a cult leader?

8/8/2013 9:53:59 AM