just post his name

TWW will do the rest

1/11/2012 1:45:27 AM

Your first talk to HR doesn't need to be about "him" either. Just go in, ask for advice for a generic hypothetical situation, find the company policy, find what evidence you need, etc. I imagine it is much better to establish a steady stream of these reports and a history (aside from your own documentation/logs) instead of charging into HR one day and slamming your phone down on the counter.

1/11/2012 1:47:10 AM

if i had to guess, his TWW name would be State409c

1/11/2012 1:50:39 AM

The fact that she doesn't want to "get him fired" suggests that she's not telling us the whole story. He probably has some shit on her that she wouldn't want him to bring up if she escalated it to HR

If he's really as much of a bitch as you're portraying him as, then it makes no sense why you shouldn't be trying to get his ass fired by any means necessary. Tape record, document, hell even goad him on to saying some really incriminating stuff and then get his ass canned.

1/11/2012 2:05:19 AM

Alternative theory: she's just a nice person.

1/11/2012 2:07:53 AM

some valid advice ITT


long and short, there's no need for you to feel obligated to put up with his bullshit. Document the behavior, go to HR, get the guy shitcanned.

1/11/2012 7:57:47 AM

Is it weird that I was reading your dialogue from him in a flamboyantly gay voice in my head before I read later that he had a boyfriend?

1/11/2012 8:16:30 AM

For dragon, I thought it was a voice recording thing since doctors use it - it's a dictation program, so if you use it all it will do is record what he says then transfer it to written word. Still useful for helping you document, and it makes no noises so you can be slick about it.

[Edited on January 11, 2012 at 8:18 AM. Reason : I tested it btw, so for real no noises]

1/11/2012 8:18:09 AM

Quote :

" I've had people that see the way he talks to me tell me "Just tell him 'fuck you' to make him shut up" But this is one of those situations where if feels like with my luck the moment I say "fuck you" is the moment that the CEO of the company is walking by...or even my supervisor hears it and I lose my job...."

Say this under no circumstances whatsoever.

Never record anything until you've talked to HR about it. The problem isn't the law, the problem is you keeping your job.

You shouldn't have to keep feeling bad about the situation. One abusive comment is enough. You waited too long. If you waited long enough and snapped then you could even have your own head on the chopping block with him when the company deals with it.

1/11/2012 8:40:08 AM

Quote :

"I also found out that he tried to start a rumor about me saying that I was pregnant and that I didn't care about my baby because all I did was drink and smoke..."

Who does this?! Dude must lead a sad, bitter life, for real.

I agree with Peter

Quote :

"Sweep the leg"

1/11/2012 8:40:48 AM

What I imagine:

He harasses you 1,000 times.

You snap once and, of course, say something inappropriate.

He goes to HR.

later conversation:
"but he's harassed me 1,000 times!"
"did you ever go to HR about it?"

1/11/2012 8:49:09 AM

^I realized this exact same thing...I felt it yesterday...that rubber band is getting stretched pretty thin...

I would retroactively start documenting things, but unfortunately they've all blurred together...

Looking back, I've probably allowed for it to get this bad. I've let him slide on smaller comments because
a) I'm able to overlook smaller problems
b) in a work environment I'm less liking to get my finger wagging personality and tell this guy what's up
c) his wrists are so limp he can out finger wag me any day of the week

If I had just straight up told him from the beginning that I won't tolerate those types of comments it may have never gotten to this point...but should've could've would've

[Edited on January 11, 2012 at 9:26 AM. Reason : ]

1/11/2012 9:24:23 AM

Tell that faggot to shut the fuck up!

1/11/2012 9:30:46 AM

Quote :

"Him: "I didn't ask you for your opinion, bitch. Well I don't fucking care anyway""

Quote :

"he has openly admited that since he "has made two other girls quit their job" his new objective is to see if he can "make me quit.""

Quote :

"I even had someone come up to me today to tell me about a mistake I made...while I've been there just over a year there are still mistakes to be made that I wouldn't know unless I was told... This person told me and I was like "oh crap, thanks for telling me" And he said to me "I told you in private because I knew that if I said it where *** could hear me I know he would give you a hard time and try to throw you under the bus""

Sounds like you have plenty already.

Quote :

"If you don't have enough already, HR will tell you what you need."

1/11/2012 9:39:26 AM

Man, ThePeter with some stellar advice. *clap clap clap*

I hope it gets better, sawahash.

1/11/2012 9:39:58 AM

like everyone already said, go to HR and at least get on the record as being bullied by this guy. then get their opinion on recording future encounters between you and him. probably shouldn't go recording conversations between him and other folks.. i could see that getting turned around against you, like you're "out to get him" or something.

and the business about him retaliating for you going to your supervisor about his behavior... that's straight out of elementary school.

also, lol @ this

Quote :

"his wrists are so limp he can out finger wag me any day of the week"

gay bully vs sawahash:

1/11/2012 9:45:02 AM

What Mr frog said...... You don't deserve this and he deserves to get his ass fired.


I actually had a bully in both high school and college. High school was a trailer trash chick that hated me because I was dating the guy she liked. I ran from that one.....literally she would constantly threaten me, harass me in the locker room, follow me to my car, etc. I had a gym class with her and the gym teacher let me hangout in the coachs' office and help them organize papers. I was a wimp, but she was scary. And I loved basically having a free class where I got to hang out with all our coaches (I was a cheerleader so they all knew me).


College was that douche bag guy that lived in the dorm next to mine (I was in Carroll....he was in Owen). I had a class woth him freshman year and everytime I saw him he would call me a slut, say a lot of really mean and hurtful things to me, anytime he saw a guy talking to me he would yell from wherever he was that I was a SLUT and to stay away. I have no idea why he chose to harass me, I had never really had a conversation with him, we had no mutual friends.....I dunno. But it began to affect my performance in class, I was scared to walk around by myself, and it ruined my confidence. So I began to document instances. I eventually told him that I had kept record of the things he had said and when and that if it continued I was going to give it to anyone at the school who would be willing to help me. He stopped and actually sent me a written apology. But that was a long time ago and before I really understood that I didn't need to take shit like that.


The point is, you work in a corporate environment. You are lucky enough to have an HR department that was put in place for reasons exactly like this. You have an avenue to take and it really is the only option. You deserve to work in a non-hostile environment where you can excel.



And he deserves to eat shit. And a lot of it.

[Edited on January 11, 2012 at 9:48 AM. Reason : ..]

1/11/2012 9:47:58 AM

1/11/2012 9:53:25 AM

Damn I was hoping for unicorns.....

1/11/2012 9:55:16 AM

You need to shut this shit down ASAP. The first time he called you a bitch you should've given him a verbal thrashing, but it's too late for that now. Go to HR, start documenting any instances of harrassment, and get this motherfucker fired.

I think Kiwi went through something similar awhile back. I think the guy was gay then too. Not that that means anything, just a strange coincidence.

1/11/2012 9:58:37 AM

Talk to his superior directly, and request a meeting with all three of you. Make it clear you will press charges against the company and him if the behavior does not cease.

jugular, go for it.

[Edited on January 11, 2012 at 9:59 AM. Reason : -]

1/11/2012 9:58:50 AM

1/11/2012 9:59:14 AM

Quote :

"I was hoping for unicorns"

ask and ye shall receive...

1/11/2012 10:06:45 AM

By your descriptions, this individual sounds like a misogynistic David Thorne without all the fun and whimsy. I couldn’t fathom someone in their 30’s still acting like this, but given your circumstances, and given the fact that this probably isn’t a position you see as a long term path for you, I’d use it as incentive to find greener pastures. Yes, it’s the easy way out, and yes, you would in essence be letting him win, but if you don’t like it there even without being constantly harangued by this guy, there’s no time like the present to take the next step. But before you go, make sure you let him know, under no uncertain circumstances, exactly how you feel about him. And if you do decide to stay, fight fire with fire. I’ve seen you get worked up on here before. I think you’re severely underestimating just how big of an asshole you’re capable of being.

1/11/2012 10:09:42 AM

I really appreciate the advice you've given me.

I went to my parents first, and they did the best they could, but they were still at a loss because they have never dealt with this situation in the work place either...at least not in their adults lives...

You know, the sad thing is, part of me feels sorry for this guy...I'm sure when he was growing up he was picked on plenty...he is unattractive, his personality is the shits, and he's gay...that's a lof of reasons why someone would get picked on growing up...
But I think now he feels like he can go after other people...like he feels like he is always on the defense and needs to knock someone down before they have the chance to knock him down...

He may have gotten away with it several times before....but this time he has attacked me personally and professionally...and my education one too many times and shit is about to hit the fan for him...


I still can't get over how he insulted me by basically saying that NC State has no clue about animals because apparently they teach that pitbulls are not evil creatures...


^This situation is really making me think that it's about time for me to go back to school to finish up my degree. This is a good job, with great benefits, but it's also a job that you don't need any sort of degree to get...which may be why I'm dealing with someone with this type of personality...I can't fathom someone who went through at least 4 years of school to get a job to act so childish towards another human...

[Edited on January 11, 2012 at 10:15 AM. Reason : ]

1/11/2012 10:12:20 AM

moar!!!!!

1/11/2012 10:12:37 AM

hide under his desk and tazer him till he passes out, then go back to work like nothing happened

1/11/2012 10:14:34 AM

Quote :

"Talk to his superior directly, and request a meeting with all three of you. Make it clear you will press charges against the company and him if the behavior does not cease."

This is skipping a bunch of steps. She needs to go through HR first and build the case with actual history behind it.

1/11/2012 10:15:38 AM

To be fair, there are about half a dozen other schools in the state he could have gone to where he'd have every right to shit on State.

1/11/2012 10:16:19 AM

That's how I would handle it, but I'm an ENTJ. I'd rather ask for forgiveness and send the message, then ask for permission and endure the torture of adhering to a bureaucratic process. The notion of building a case against someone means continuing to play the role of the victim. I would refuse.

1/11/2012 10:24:11 AM

He didn't go to school...

he claims he went to Duke, UNC, and Wake Forest...he was accepted into Harvard but decided to not go because he couldn't stand to be too far away from his horses...

OH I forgot to mention he is also a pathalogicaly liar...if you've done something...he's done something 10 times better...
I have yet to take the effort to have fun with this quality about him...pull a little SNL sketch and make his head explode

1/11/2012 10:25:37 AM

well, armed with that information, you better make sure your coworkers are going to come down on the right side of the fence because this guy will probably pull all the stops out and find any small thing you did (or even making something up, doesn't sound like it would be beyond him) to defend his behavior and try to make you look just as bad as him.

1/11/2012 10:39:10 AM

Quote :

"he is also a pathalogicaly liar...if you've done something...he's done something 10 times better..."

these people are the worst.

1/11/2012 10:42:24 AM

Quote :

"This is skipping a bunch of steps. She needs to go through HR first and build the case with actual history behind it."

Firstly, there are many many people ITT you should not listen to. ThePeter is probably the best advice I've seen.

The "order" of how you should handle something is not obvious to most people, and I think most people probably have it wrong. We have formal education for ethics in many fields, but I think most people (myself included) don't get formal education from actual HR experts on professional conflict resolution.

I still think you were right to go to your supervisor, and you would be more right to have kept records of the specifics.

My advice:

Make a concise list of his actions you have written down and actions you have taken to address it.

PM this list to ThePeter. Ask him what to do next. He will obviously be more helpful than your parents.

...

profit.

[Edited on January 11, 2012 at 11:57 AM. Reason : ]

1/11/2012 11:53:02 AM

what is this persons job exactly? is he such a rare bird or indispensable that they will never get rid of him?

1/11/2012 11:59:44 AM

This sounds like the type of guy that I would find outside of work, spray in the face with pepper spray, and then beat with a tube sock full of thumb tacks and nickles.

or


Report to HR with proper documentation

1/11/2012 12:20:55 PM

thanks for fucking up the page, Leon.

Quote :

"I also found out that he tried to start a rumor about me saying that I was pregnant and that I didn't care about my baby because all I did was drink and smoke..."

oh, god damn, that's sexual harassment straight up. I don't know if you are pregnant or not (lot's of peeps getting knocked up round here these days), but if you aren't, then he's done for, as he literally has no leg to stand on talking about your sexual reproductive health whatsoever.

Quote :

"and the business about him retaliating for you going to your supervisor about his behavior... that's straight out of elementary school."

It's also illegal and you should document the hell out of that. Retaliation of any sort will fuck you up six ways from Sunday.

Quote :

"I still can't get over how he insulted me by basically saying that NC State has no clue about animals because apparently they teach that pitbulls are not evil creatures..."

get over it. people will make fun of your school. woopty. are you proud of having gone to State? Yeah? fuck him, then.

1/11/2012 12:24:22 PM

Am I the only one that pictures Krallum acting this way irl?

1/11/2012 12:36:41 PM

^^ yeah, some you have to get over and some are very bad.

I really didn't know about the pregnancy thing. It seems like a difficult point. I don't see how it could be sexual harassment to spread rumors about someone being pregnant. After all, women do get pregnant sometimes. It seemed to me like the only defense against that it's a distracting rumors, and I didn't think it could be lumped into sexual harassment. I think it should be arguable, by all means, but within a larger context.

[Edited on January 11, 2012 at 12:37 PM. Reason : ]

1/11/2012 12:37:12 PM

^ it may not be sexual harassment, but it _is_ workplace harassment.


sawahash, If the claims of his behavior are true, you have a laundry list of fireable offenses.


The question is if you're willing to stand up for yourself and follow some of the good recommendations in this thread (Document, document, document, and then engage HR).

You have no responsibility to consider his situation in this. The only other thing to consider is that he could be pulling the same shit with others that you don't know about.

Companies do not take this stuff lightly in this day and age.

[Edited on January 11, 2012 at 12:39 PM. Reason : .]

1/11/2012 12:38:06 PM

Quote :

"I don't see how it could be sexual harassment to spread rumors about someone being pregnant."

because you would be specifically talking about her sex life. It's one thing if she's 8 months and obviously pregnant. but if she aint, then you simply can't talk about any facet of her sex life and expect to be safe.

i mean, hell, saying the word "fuck" could be taken as sexual harassment if you really want to push it

[Edited on January 11, 2012 at 12:43 PM. Reason : ]

1/11/2012 12:43:11 PM

Quote :

"sawahash, If the claims of his behavior are true, you have a laundry list of fireable offenses."

Again with the assumptions about the company.
This is why you need a game plan for dealing with the behavior, which I'm assuming can be found on Google.
Some companies are slime, given that someone gets away with openly using curse words in an open-cubicle environment (in sales ), this is a good candidate.
A "fireable offense" is company-specific.

Suing the company is totally fair game, which ultimately is the only way we can say something doesn't fly "in this day and age".
The open question is what you have to do before that.

Quote :

"because you would be specifically talking about her sex life"

Good point, and to add on that, it occurred to me...
he probably feels immune to sexual harassment accusations against women because he's gay

1/11/2012 12:51:19 PM

+1 for the advice of "Write everything up and go to HR with it, right now." Today if you can make time in your schedule. Sounds like this has already gone on too long and you have the right to a non-hostile work environment.

Recording him is a nice idea in theory but DO NOT do it without express permission from HR. Sadly, you probably won't get it because of liability concerns on their end. But you want your behavior during this situation to be unimpeachable.

Also, since you have mentioned that he is a pathological liar, you want to mention that as well, if you can come up with specific instances. It's entirely possible that when HR approaches him he'll make up all kinds of crazy shit about what you have "done to him."

And don't be afraid to go for the jugular. Don't be malicious but don't hold back, at all. He sounds like the type of person that a reprimand won't stop, so if he doesn't lose his job, you're in for more of the same, redoubled. He's harmed you enough. He brought it on himself. Do all you can to see his ass fired.

1/11/2012 12:56:37 PM

I actually did deal with something similar to this, except I'm not timid about returning fire when they 'fire some warning shots over your bow'.

A Tanzarian's advice actually needs to get priority over anything else you are planning on doing. Your documentation means shit if HR doesn't know you are having a problem. As someone else mentioned, simply going to HR with a "generic concern" documents with your employer that a problem exists.

Whether he is fired or not shouldn't even be a subject for concern. That's not your call and it's not your problem. Don't "shoot for" getting him fired and don't be afraid of it... it's not a part of the conversation. His actions are what they are and you can only control how you react to it.

1) Go to HR and make sure that you include that you brought it up to your supervisor and the individual has still not stopped harassing you. This isn't at all accusing your supervisor of anything... it's simply letting HR know that you have tried respecting your company's command-structure and it didn't produce positive results.

2) Take their advice and independently keep a little steno pad of incidents you have had. You don't have to go back in the past and "recall" anything. Actually, it could really hurt you if you mis-remember an incident and he calls you out on it later. If he is as bad as you say, there will be more incidents. Record what you were doing at the time, what he did, and how he reacted. Period. That is all you need to document the case and honestly it's all HR will care about later.

3) After a couple of weeks, assuming you now have incidents recorded, approach the HR rep you spoke to again and let them know the behavior continued and you can cite specific incidents. Use buzz words. The magical phrase is "He is creating a hostile working environment." That is the legaleese that is taught to HRs to know that they should take action to avoid legal action by an employee.

From there, I'd be shocked of the company didn't either move him somewhere or take disciplinary action or SOMETHING. Until then, there is a lot of good advice in here, but just acting like things are "business as usual" is probably the best advice because it allows HR to make the argument that you were behaving like a "normal" employee so this guy could treat ANYONE this way.

My two cents.

1/11/2012 1:01:35 PM

you know you're e-popular when you post a thread like this and no one writes "tl,dr"

1/11/2012 1:06:10 PM

tl;dr

1/11/2012 1:09:09 PM

^^ I think its more of a function of fellow TWWians having empathy for here since almost all of us were bullied at one point or another in our lives.

[Edited on January 11, 2012 at 1:19 PM. Reason : Not me, tho. I've always been the cool kid.]

1/11/2012 1:18:50 PM

Nobody would ever talk to me this way... So... maybe I am the bully

1/11/2012 1:21:52 PM

Has he attacked your digital reputation?

1/11/2012 1:22:30 PM

He has horses? Godfather that shit yo!

Seriously though, if you can't get work to do anything about it. Find a male friend to visit one of his hangouts after work and deliver him a little message.

1/11/2012 2:20:53 PM