page 2 loves MSNBC

2/8/2012 3:00:56 PM

I have a futile crush on Rachel.

2/8/2012 3:07:52 PM

how anyone could be attracted to that mole-encrusted skag is beyond me

2/8/2012 3:39:04 PM

How anyone can be attracted to Sarah Palin is beyond me. Go figure.

2/8/2012 3:40:57 PM

*on the floor, running hand under the couch* So THAT'S where that story went

Quote :

"how anyone could be attracted to that mole-encrusted skag is beyond me"

I love how the conservative response to any female liberal is to insult her physical appearance.




Literally, the GOP is made up of cavemen.

[Edited on February 8, 2012 at 4:37 PM. Reason : .]

2/8/2012 4:36:08 PM

I don't call ALL female liberals ugly. just the fucking ugly ones.

and monica crowley is married to alan colmes. go figure on that

[Edited on February 8, 2012 at 4:52 PM. Reason : .]

2/8/2012 4:50:54 PM

no she's not. her sister is. jeez, man.

I also like how that pic used the worst possible pictures of the liberals and then some glamour shots of conservatives. then again, Laura Bush? what? A 30 year old picture of Laura Ingraham, who isn't that great anyway? And who chose the awful pics for Michelle Malkin and Monica Crowley? WTF?

even then, Crowley? who the fuck is Debbie Schlussel?

[Edited on February 8, 2012 at 5:11 PM. Reason : ]

2/8/2012 5:10:56 PM

There is a difference between leaning forward and bending over.
Here comes the gov't, bend over..

2/8/2012 6:44:00 PM

Quote :

"and "revived" the company by serving strictly as a "visionary" figurehead"

This contradicts the popular notions about the way he ran apple. I think your opinion is just dead wrong.

2/8/2012 8:13:25 PM

The narrative of how he ran the company is whichever one sells the most iPhones.

2/8/2012 10:20:35 PM

What? Is this what liberals do? You guys can't admit that one dude has the power to move the world?

2/8/2012 10:22:00 PM

I don't think the CEO of an advertising company that also sells phones and overpriced computers changed the world.

P.S. I own an iPhone but when I see a spade I call it as such.

[Edited on February 8, 2012 at 10:35 PM. Reason : ]

2/8/2012 10:34:17 PM

LOL

Apple definitely changed the world, and Apple wouldn't have stepped away from the brink without Jobs' unique leadership and vision.

This doesn't need to turn in to a discussion about Apple, but Apple literally went through constant management changes throughout the 90s, getting a new CEO every 2 years or so from various sectors of industry, before Jobs came in and turned things around.

We'd all still be using Palm Pilots, Blackberries, and Windows Mobile 6-esque phones without the iPhone. Microsoft might have just got around to implementing a vector-based compositing windowing system in Windows 7. Online music would have overly restrictive DRM and be dominated by a balkanized collection of formats.

2/9/2012 12:23:29 AM

Quote :

"We'd all still be using Palm Pilots, Blackberries, and Windows Mobile 6-esque phones without the iPhone."

Oh, the horror!

2/9/2012 12:28:45 AM

the dude sold shiny hard-drives.

it's not like he found a cure for pancreatic cancer.

[Edited on February 9, 2012 at 12:37 AM. Reason : ]

2/9/2012 12:36:20 AM

Yeah, the guy who invented the polio vaccine and then gave it away for free was someone who changed the world.

2/9/2012 6:34:38 AM

Quote :

"Online music would have overly restrictive DRM and be dominated by a balkanized collection of formats."

yes, because apple was clearly the first company to offer DRM free music. get the fuck over yourself and stop sucking off Steve Jobs

2/9/2012 8:14:26 AM

Lol I love this series of events

1. Apple makes a thing, patents a key feature that is hardly revolutionary but yaaay patent law (AKA multi-touch)

2. Other companies can't use that feature because of said patent

3. Apple fanboys conclude key, unrevolutionary featuer wouldn't occur because other companies don't have it


Also lol at somebody talking about DRM in the context of Apple, the most notorious company on Earth when it comes to restricting users to proprietary formats, software, even operating systems.

Quote :

"the dude sold shiny hard-drives."

Yup. Less features for more money. If Jobs could have any kind of genius attributed to him, it was his ability to cultivate and market an image and brand despite the actual product being a total ripoff. A testament to how easily duped American consumers are.

[Edited on February 9, 2012 at 11:31 AM. Reason : .]

2/9/2012 11:29:05 AM

Quote :

"A testament to how easily duped American consumers are. "

And they fact that they've been wildly successful the world over says ... everyone is easily duped?

Which do you think is more likely:

a) Millions of people throughout the world are all easily duped by a "dude [who] sold shiny hard-drives" and you are one of the few capable of seeing through the lies.

or

b) Millions people throughout the world have different priorities and preferences from you, and buy their products for different reasons than "who has the longest feature list".

2/9/2012 12:55:04 PM

Quote :

"a) Millions of people throughout the world are all easily duped by a "dude [who] sold shiny hard-drives" and you are one of the few capable of seeing through the lies."

Actually I'm one of the very, very many.

Quote :

"b) Millions people throughout the world have different priorities and preferences from you, and buy their products for different reasons than "who has the longest feature list"."

Not sure what kind of priority "Paying more for less but with a hip brand" is.

[Edited on February 9, 2012 at 2:09 PM. Reason : .]

2/9/2012 2:09:03 PM

That pie chart would be relevant if he were talking about operating systems as opposed to mp3 players.

I agree with you, I think apple is at least as much a "lifestyle" company as it is a tech company, but if you want to succeed in the free market you have to make your product appealing either through better performance or better marketing.

People pay more for inferior products all the fucking time. It's not unique to apple.

[Edited on February 9, 2012 at 4:45 PM. Reason : sdfas]

2/9/2012 4:44:45 PM

This is mindblowing. Just what fucking leg do you have to stand on to proclaim the best selling products of in their respective markets aren't the best because the product is actually something people are happily "overpaying" for their own reasons but rather because people are stupid?

Are you trolling here? Because this is some grade a certified angus bullshit.

2/9/2012 5:58:53 PM

That sentence is very hard to read.

2/9/2012 6:55:01 PM

Yeah, no shit. I can't really accurat0ely describe how retarded you guys are.

It's like, you start with your ideologies and work backwards applying it however you see fit to whatever it is you're trying to apply it to.

Steve Jobs, wildly successful business man...

"So umm, I'll just make some shit up to fit my preconceived conclusion...ugh, people are stupid and pay for inferior products. I mean, it's my opinion they are inferior so they are. So people are stupid. And ummm, Jobs wasn't anything special. See how that works?"

[Edited on February 9, 2012 at 7:14 PM. Reason : a]

2/9/2012 7:14:28 PM

I was talking about your syntax. It sucks.

2/9/2012 7:26:33 PM

Quote :

"That sentence is very hard to read."

Yeah, seriously. I was like WTF.

I don't think anyone is saying Steve Jobs wasn't a very successful businessman. It's clear he was. Are Apple products as revolutionary as so many think they are? Definitely not. Apple has created a brilliant and highly profitable business model that locks customers in and relies on consistently beating everyone else to market first. Their products are not that much different than any of their competitors.

[Edited on February 9, 2012 at 7:51 PM. Reason : ]

2/9/2012 7:50:47 PM

You're so god damn far off base I don't know why I'm bothering to respond to that crap. Get a fucking clue

Quote :

"Are Apple products as revolutionary as so many think they are? Definitely not."

What the fuck is this? Are you just arbitrarily making up what you think is "revolutionary" and then painting it on everyone else? Or, is this crap that follows what you are defining as your "revolutionary" standard:

Quote :

" that locks customers in"

Oh, yeah, you're right. That's it, customers have no idea that when they buy a superior hardware and software product that what really happens is they fall into a trap they can't get out of. God, customers are so damn stupid.

Quote :

"and relies on consistently beating everyone else to market first"

This is where you really revealed your ignorance. This is the polar opposite of what happens. Apple wasn't the first on ANYTHING. Not portable mp3 player, not smartphone, not even the first "tablet".

Quote :

" Their products are not that much different than any of their competitors"

Again, what the fuck is this? I'm a fucking engineer, I don't deal is soft specifications like this shit you're posting here. Do you mean their devices display web pages and let you run apps like a lot of other tablets? No fucking shit sherlock. Their products are so similar to everyone elses out there I just can't figure out how they've amassed more cash and market cap than many countries. I guess it's those stupid fucking customers, right?

Get the fuck outta here.

2/9/2012 9:16:42 PM

Fucking butthurt much? Goddamn.

2/10/2012 12:43:36 AM

Lol Chance in full tantrum mode, try not to spill any mountain dew on your Netbook Air

2/10/2012 12:26:22 PM

So which of these superior features are customers clamoring for?

- Peripherals being restricted to proprietary software (Wooo iTunes!) AKA Vertical Integration to lock consumers into the brand entirely once they buy one product

- Blocking or banning apps based on corporate pettiness (Goodbye Google Voice, Flash)

- Rampant censorship in general in the app store

- DRM on ibooks, movies, and everything else not music

- Buying an Apple brand adaptor to use USB, the most common peripheral connection format on Earth at this point

- Early adopting something only to have the price tag drop and a new generation come out 4 months later. Apple's the only company I know of that so readily makes its beta testers pay full price for the product.

- Unreplaceable parts, expensive service. Mail your entire computer in when your webcam breaks.

- Paying $300 more than they would for a PC with the same specs, greater compatibility, and user-customizable/user-replaceable


Because last time I checked all of these things suck and are largely unique to Apple. They're Fisher Price Computer Playsets at best. And yes, their customers are dupes by all objective standards. The only thing I've heard so far in its favor that's at all convincing is "They can't get viruses" which of course isn't actually true. Apple products are just as vulnerable to viruses, but people who know how to use computers enough to make viruses don't touch Apples and usually want to target government or business machines, which generally use Windows or Unix.

Quote :

"Oh, yeah, you're right. That's it, customers have no idea that when they buy a superior hardware and software product that what really happens is they fall into a trap they can't get out of. God, customers are so damn stupid."

Except there is nothing superior about either their hardware or software, especially for the price tag which is far above that of PC's with the same specs and I challenge you to explain how there is if you disagree.

[Edited on February 10, 2012 at 12:46 PM. Reason : .]

2/10/2012 12:41:41 PM

Quote :

"Peripherals being restricted to proprietary software (Wooo iTunes!) AKA Vertical Integration to lock consumers into the brand entirely once they buy one product . . . ....Because last time I checked all of these things suck and are largely unique to Apple. "

You're just arbitrarily assigning negative value on all those things when the rest of society isn't. You need to take just a second and let that shit sink in.

The buyers of these products are assigning value across a whole spectrum of wants and desires and all that shit you're citing amounts to dick on their list such that they are gladly paying out the wazoo for everything else about the product they like. All you are doing is re-affirming the genius of Steve Jobs that he is putting out such a shitty a product that sells better than all others in its class.

Quote :

"And yes, their customers are dupes by all objective standards."

Not a surprising statement coming from you, the all data collecting all modeling running all knowing technocrat that knows the best prescription for the everything that ails the world even when we don't realize we are ailed.

Quote :

"Except there is nothing superior about either their hardware or software "

Seriously, just get the fuck out of any discussion about Apple products because it's pretty clear you don't have a clue what you are talking about. And this is coming from someone in a household with a single iPod Nano as the only Apple product under the roof.

2/10/2012 7:23:27 PM

You have a unique ability to go into a low-blood-sugar induced rage over the most benign statements.

Goddamn, go buy a stress ball.

2/10/2012 7:35:28 PM

Quote :

"You're just arbitrarily assigning negative value on all those things when the rest of society isn't."

there is something pretty negative about locking people in to your proprietary crap for no reason other than it makes people have to buy more of your proprietary crap.

Quote :

"Seriously, just get the fuck out of any discussion about Apple products because it's pretty clear you don't have a clue what you are talking about."

seriously, you should do the same. Apple products are pretty unremarkable, except for the marketing blitz they do.

2/10/2012 7:42:31 PM

Quote :

"You have a unique ability to go into a low-blood-sugar induced rage over the most benign statements."

Because I'm sick and tired of the nonchalant way you asshats just make shit up to suit your argument. I've been giving you the benefit of the doubt that you and the people making fact free statements aren't retarded clowns but I'm starting to have my doubts.

Quote :

"there is something pretty negative about locking people in to your proprietary crap for no reason other than it makes people have to buy more of your proprietary crap."

No one makes anyone buy a fucking thing...well, except the government. It isn't lke people aren't fully aware of how apple does business and how iTunes work. For every one of you morons there are 500 people who are glad that Apples software makes it easy as hell for people to move their media around to their other Apple devices.

2/10/2012 9:01:57 PM

if you want to use your ipod, you gotta use iTunes, mostly. If you want to charge your ipod or connect it to your computer, you gotta buy their proprietary cable in order to connect it to USB, the most prolific connection port in the world right now. you wanna get just about anything from your computer to your iphone? gotta use iTunes again. but, yeah, you don't have to use their other stuff if you don't want to actually use the expensive brick you just bought that doesn't even do half the shit that other current devices do

2/10/2012 9:05:21 PM

Quote :

"if you want to use your ipod, you gotta use iTunes, mostly."

mostly? Just about every main stream mp3 manager out there from Winamp to MediaMonkey to likely Windows Media can copy music to iPods.

Quote :

" If you want to charge your ipod or connect it to your computer, you gotta buy their proprietary cable in order to connect it to USB"

Apple, those dirty apes, selling me a device with a different connector and then having the audacity to give me that proprietary connector so I can use the device. Those mothafuckas.

Quote :

" that doesn't even do half the shit that other current devices do"

Such as?

2/10/2012 9:44:45 PM

This might be one of the most intense hissy fits I've ever seen from a grown-ass-man.

Actually, that's not entirely true. Once, when I was working at a restaurant during undergrad, I watched a grown man get so upset that he threw his menu on the floor and crossed his arms while making a pouty face in font of his entire family. I think he was upset that we didn't have cheese-fries appetizers. It's hard to decide which is funnier. I'll give the edge to cheese-fries guy, just because I witnessed it in person, but this is pretty close.


such an odd thing to lose your shit over.



[Edited on February 10, 2012 at 10:44 PM. Reason : ]

2/10/2012 10:20:40 PM

Quote :

"This might be one of the most intense hissy fits I've ever seen from a grown-ass-man."

Hissy fit? I think you need to check your virility if this passes as a hissy fit.

Quote :

"such an odd thing to lose your shit over."

Yah, just knowing guys like you are running around the world misinformed, ignorant, and attempting to push your liberty draining ideology on the rest of us isn't something that should get me mildly warmed up.

2/10/2012 10:48:42 PM

What, pray tell, is the worst thing that can come of me not recognizing Steve Jobs' brilliance? Or of me not considering him to be a revolutionary?

2/10/2012 10:55:58 PM

Steve Jobs must have rubbed baldy's head once and caused a couple hairs to regrow or something, what with the major mancrush Chance has on him. did he suck you off in a public bathroom in Minnesota, chance?

2/10/2012 10:59:22 PM

Go away.

2/10/2012 11:04:46 PM

Quote :

"NOT FOND OF APPLE PRODUCTS"

=

Quote :

"LIBERTY DRAINING IDEOLOGY"

2/10/2012 11:23:06 PM

Quote :

"Yah, just knowing guys like you are running around the world misinformed, ignorant, and attempting to push your liberty draining ideology on the rest of us isn't something that should get me mildly warmed up."

"Liberty" means when my boss can do whatever he wants

2/11/2012 9:11:08 AM

Awesome, yet another dumbass has entered the thread.

2/11/2012 9:11:18 AM

Jesus Christ, no pun intended, this thread has been a ball of shit.

On motivation:

Quote :

"Links to these findings? And "E Mans" webpage of fairy tales and other assorted bullshit probably doesn't count. "

Dan Ariely practically wrote the book on it: http://danariely.com/tag/motivation/

Quote :

"Jobs was a hippy dippy moron who got lucky once, then nearly ran his business into the ground before he was thankfully given the boot, then came back and "revived" the company by serving strictly as a "visionary" figurehead. If he's a businessman then he represents the worst about business, that an overpriced and underfeatured product can sell great if you emotionally manipulate consumers into buying them anyway."

Lucky? http://9to5google.com/2011/08/25/vic-gundotra-steve-jobs-asked-me-to-fix-the-yellow-gradient-of-the-google-icon-on-iphone/

Quote :

"Yup. Less features for more money. If Jobs could have any kind of genius attributed to him, it was his ability to cultivate and market an image and brand despite the actual product being a total ripoff. A testament to how easily duped American consumers are. "

Wow, you probably think doors need push pull signs too... Underfeatured is the new black, it's usually considered to be focus. 37 Signals has been wildly fucking successful using the same methodology. Here's a book on it: http://gettingreal.37signals.com/ The reason most products suck so much ass is they try to put the whole kitchen sink in a feature bullet list for a bullshit marketing person to hit in their sales pitch. If you instead focus on the user experience you find that most people need a lot less. And the products really are shit, I mean every startup in silicon valley has engineers using Apple products, I haven't even seen a fucking Windows machine since being in San Francisco. The last two companies I worked for used Apple. I wonder why that is?

An Apple product is actually Unix at the core and has all the dev tools I need out of the box. I can't even imagine using a Windows machine, and I sure as hell don't like fixing the display drivers myself everytime a new version of Linux comes out. My time is more valuable than that (though I did do that for many years).

Quote :

"1. Apple makes a thing, patents a key feature that is hardly revolutionary but yaaay patent law (AKA multi-touch) 2. Other companies can't use that feature because of said patent 3. Apple fanboys conclude key, unrevolutionary featuer wouldn't occur because other companies don't have it"

Apple acquired multi-touch from an acquisition as part of a strategy that culminated in the iPhone. They aren't revolutionary necessarily in individual features, but they are very revolutionary in over arching product design and focus. I mean Steve Jobs called the Google VP on a Sunday about the fucking icons...

Don Norman is a god of product design and every software company gets their jollies off on his philosophies largely in part from Apple.

http://www.amazon.com/Design-Everyday-Things-Donald-Norman/dp/0385267746

2/11/2012 10:04:37 AM

The thing I hate the most about Apple fanboys is that they think everyone who doesn't like Apple loves Microsoft or some other company. No. We simply like products that work. We hate your irrational passion for a company who simply wants your money.

2/11/2012 3:17:18 PM

I actually have owned several ipods. I bought my first ipod back in 03. But I didn't buy it because it changed the world, I bought it because dancing silhouettes in front of bright backgrounds convinced me to trade in my discman for an mp3 player. Had Sony come out guns-a-blazin' with a marketing campaign, I probably would have bought one of their products instead.

But the idea that revolutionaries and geniuses can be identified by profit margins is fuckin' hilarious, though. It really speaks to the value our society places to people who innovate or concentrate their efforts in the public sphere rather than the private sector.

2/11/2012 5:59:56 PM

Quote :

"But the idea that revolutionaries and geniuses can be identified by profit margins is fuckin' hilarious, though."

Obvious strawman is obvious.

2/11/2012 6:39:05 PM

It's sad that even after living through the iPod and iPhone transforming their respective industries, you all don't seem to remember or acknowledge this.

This is the reason humanity is doomed to repeat itself... people seem completely blind to historic events, especially when they live through them.

2/11/2012 7:05:49 PM

if they actually revolutionized anything, it'd be one thing. all they did was copy what others already had, put in less features, and blast the public with marketing. the only thing revolutionary about it was that people were dumb enough to fall for dancing silhouettes and fanboys telling them how great shit with less features and twice the price was

[Edited on February 11, 2012 at 8:25 PM. Reason : ]

2/11/2012 8:24:58 PM