Everyone should be paid the same as a doctor!
Doctor's earn too much money they should be paid much less or taxed much more!

3/16/2012 11:08:42 PM

My two bedroom apartment is $1300 but I need the second bedroom to put all the stuff I don't want to look at or are too lazy to throw away.

3/16/2012 11:10:18 PM

doctors have a mountain of debt most people couldn't even imagine, not even getting into the costs of having a practice / lawyers / employees / independent insurance.

3/16/2012 11:10:31 PM

^^^That is the logical extension of that argument

^This is the problem, not how much they're paid. In a society where people are paid the same, people try to do the jobs that pay more in our society because its more noble, not because of money.

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

3/16/2012 11:10:42 PM

Ah yes, I forgot that my old neighbor, a doctor, is buried in debt and doesn't have 2 homes completely paid for, new cars every few years, lavish vacations, and all the small and medium treats he could ask for.

^that wasn't a response to XPMS

[Edited on March 16, 2012 at 11:15 PM. Reason : .]

3/16/2012 11:12:24 PM

Good. He earned it. Fuck the education system and other things that that money could go to.

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

3/16/2012 11:15:22 PM

Yes, because he doesn't donate to charities, doesn't support a university based hospital, and didn't put multiple children through college.

3/16/2012 11:16:20 PM

Cool, you are clearly getting my point.

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

3/16/2012 11:17:24 PM

I'm not here to get your point.

3/16/2012 11:19:15 PM

I shouldn't expect anyone to understand things that are above them

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

3/16/2012 11:20:11 PM

sick burn, bro

3/16/2012 11:21:33 PM

Quote :

"^that wasn't a response to XPMS "

i was about to be all like

3/16/2012 11:24:04 PM

it's amazing how rich people tell you dopes one thing and you're all "AYUP GUESS THIS IS MY LOT AND THE LOT OF MANY"

3/16/2012 11:27:01 PM

don't aspire to anything other than what people with more money deem acceptable

3/16/2012 11:27:33 PM

McDanger is so alternative.

3/16/2012 11:30:00 PM

You deserve to die if you don't view working 60 hours a week as your goal in life.

The only human ideal anyone should have is spending your best days working.

3/16/2012 11:30:59 PM

.

[Edited on March 16, 2012 at 11:35 PM. Reason : ]

3/16/2012 11:35:09 PM

3/16/2012 11:36:14 PM

Yeah Margaret Thatcher is someone who's policy i can get behind

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

3/16/2012 11:36:35 PM

"Nothing is wrong with the country until XSMP can't find a job"

3/16/2012 11:52:02 PM

3/17/2012 1:14:23 AM

Quote :

"the problem is "everyone can't have a job that doesn't pay by the hour.""

fuck that. I want to be paid by the hour. I want my overtime. Not get fucked over by the man so they can work me 60 hours a week and not pay me what i deserve.

3/17/2012 1:36:13 AM

btw, major fucking problem with the picture. it's saying how much you gotta work in a WEEK to pay the rent, which is usually a monthly payment, unless they are trying to say that a 2-bedroom apartment in NC runs north of 2000/month. boohoo, you can't make the rent for the month in one week. boo. fucking. hoo. they are complaining that you need to work, roughly, a third of the month, to make rent. and most people agree that housing should be, roughly, a third of your income. and the problem now is...


then again, if you're working at minimum wage and that's all you've got, you've fucked up somewhere along the line anyway, meaning you either dropped out of HS and can only qualify for McD's, or you committed a crime and only McD's will take you (or got framed, which sux). The vast majority of people on minimum wage are HS and college students, so I'm really not crying about minimum wage not "being enough" for a 2-bedroom apartment in one week.

[Edited on March 17, 2012 at 2:03 AM. Reason : ]

3/17/2012 1:55:22 AM

Quote :

"btw, major fucking problem with the picture. it's saying how much you gotta work in a WEEK to pay the rent, which is usually a monthly payment, unless they are trying to say that a 2-bedroom apartment in NC runs north of 2000/month. boohoo, you can't make the rent for the month in one week. boo. fucking. hoo. they are complaining that you need to work, roughly, a third of the month, to make rent. and most people agree that housing should be, roughly, a third of your income. and the problem now is..."

Good job making an assumption and "disproving" it.

3/17/2012 2:12:54 AM

Quote :

"GOT FRAMED SUX "

3/17/2012 2:39:41 AM

Quote :

"and most people agree that housing should be, roughly, a third of your income."

I don't understand why most people would agree that housing should cost 1/3 of your income. That fucking ridiculous. I certainly don't agree with it. I can eat $30 steak dinners every day of the month for $900 and that is still below $rent. I'd rather rent a room out of a friend's house for $300 and go on vacations every two months with the $2000 I saved from rent.

3/17/2012 3:31:54 AM

^ amen to that. Several of my friends own houses and pay less monthly on their mortgage than I do in rent every month.

3/17/2012 4:04:44 AM

Quote :

"Good job making an assumption and "disproving" it."

Well, the pic says "hours at minimum wage needed to afford rent." Then it goes on to say "In no state can you afford 'Fair Market Rent' on minimum wage in 40 hours". Then I look at NC, where it says you gotta work 75 hours to make "Fair Market Rent." Now, FMR is a nebulously defined term on its own, so the picture is all kinds of unclear, but that's OK.

Now, what this picture is trying to imply is that it is impossible to afford the average rent for a 2-BR apartment in any state on minimum wage. They then gave the number of hours needed to do so. What they didn't say is if the "rent" they referencing is a weekly figure or a monthly figure. So, I do the math, I get that they have defined FMR as being $507.6. That sounds, roughly, correct for a monthly rent. They then say it's gonna take 75 hours at minimum wage to make that. Correct me if I am wrong, but does a month have more, or less, than 75 working hours in it? Hmmmm?

If, instead, they are saying that the FMR is a weekly number, then they must be saying that FMR for a 2-BR apartment in NC is $507.6 a week, an absurd number, considering that I could go to MicroTel and get a hotel room for the week for less. But, let's take that number, and extend it out to a month, using a conservative multiple of 4. That works out to, as I stated earlier, just north of $2000 a month. You can get a mortgage for a 4br house in a decent neighborhood for less than that.

So, which assumption was the correct one? A monthly FMR, or a weekly one? You tell me.

Then again, this "picture statistic" completely ignores the fact that if you are living solely at minimum wage, then you will qualify for gov't housing assistance. You will also qualify for food stamps, so that's extra "income." it also fails to define FMR, and then lumps in ALL rents into that FMR, instead of the rents that would typically be available to or sought by someone making minimum wage. Is it any wonder that the average rent in NYC is going to be so fucking high? They have the highest land values in the country, if not the world. It's completely absurd to take a naive average of NYC rents. Some places there go for upwards of 10,000 a month! And these chucklefucks just blindly lump in luxury apartments and then marvel that you can't afford them on minimum wage. Not only that, they then average these exorbitantly high priced apartments across the rest of the state, in order to make the state look worse.





As for the 1/3rd of your income comment, that's what most places require as a minimum of income. Maybe you don't think it's wise to spend that much, but that's what most places say is their limit, so to point out that, in NC, it's roughly a 3rd is not absurd. I don't know who you're trying to fool at this point.


I don't think anyone has been trying to say that it is lovely and rosey to live at minimum wage. But this "picture stat" is full of fail and is trying to use misleading statistics with differing rates to prove a point that simply isn't supported by the actual numbers.

3/17/2012 1:29:21 PM

^ i see where your misunderstanding is, but i'm too lazy to explain right now

3/17/2012 1:38:02 PM

I'd be glad to hear what this misleading picture is trying to say, man.

3/17/2012 1:39:03 PM

Quote :

" A girl on my facebook used this picture to start a discussion on why minimum wage should be raised. According to the picture, for "a minimum wage worker" to be able to afford a two bedroom place at "fair market rent" the minimum wage would need to be $13.60. Is the minimum wage too low or the rent "to damn high"? I say raise it to $25/hr. What say you?"

You're all a bunch of fucking idiots.

You pay rent on a monthly basis. You work about 160 hours a month. That comes out to be $1200/month. Lets say the government takes 25%. that's $900/month. Most apartments are well below that. They may not be in the nicest areas. It may not leave you a lot left over to spend money on luxuries. But you can certainly afford it.

Yeah, in some states it's bad. The the title of the graph states that in no state can a minimum wage worker afford a 2 bedroom unit. And that's complete bullshit.

3/17/2012 2:03:30 PM

Quote :

"The vast majority of people on minimum wage are HS and college students,"

yeah... I don't think that's true

3/17/2012 2:20:15 PM

yeah, I do think so. the people most likely to be making minimum wage are those under 30, you know, people most likely to be in HS or college. we also know that minimum wage is predominantly paid to part-time workers. Who do you think is the most likely to be a part-time worker? right, again, HS and college students. And even then, it's almost a meaningless statistic, as so few people make minimum wage, anyway, roughly 2% of the workforce. Then, we see that those earning minimum wage are rarely the primary breadwinner, much less the head of household. It's almost like the minimum wage argument is stupid to even bring up, at this point.

[Edited on March 17, 2012 at 3:02 PM. Reason : ]

3/17/2012 2:46:54 PM

^ that graph proves that most people on minimum wage aren't in high school or college.

If you believe otherwise, you're an idiot, and your ideas are invalid.

3/17/2012 3:18:23 PM

I should rephrase, then. The age group most likely to be making minimum wage encompasses HS and college students, a fact that is very much shown by that graph and the knowledge that only 2% of the population makes minimum wage. The ultimate point is the same: sole breadwinners, by and large, aren't making minimum wage, and the "picture statistic" in the original post is incredibly misleading. At best, what that picture tells you is that you don't want to be making minimum wage, which, well, everyone pretty much already knew

3/17/2012 3:40:18 PM

Quote :

"Who do you think is the most likely to be a part-time worker?"

Anybody in this economy.

3/17/2012 3:49:46 PM

keep evading, snewf. You've got a HS/College student with a job, and you've got a non-HS/College student with a job. Which of the two do you think is more likely to be a part-time employee?

3/17/2012 3:54:03 PM

Quote :

"The age group most likely to be making minimum wage encompasses HS and college students, a fact that is very much shown by that graph and the knowledge "

LOL

This is a pedantic observation considering that anyone of any age can be a college student.

This is the point in time where you admit that you were completely wrong about min wage earner demographics.

Quote :

"The ultimate point is the same: sole breadwinners, by and large, aren't making minimum wage, and the "picture statistic" in the original post is incredibly misleading. At best, what that picture tells you is that you don't want to be making minimum wage, which, well, everyone pretty much already knew"

Is your 2% statistic people exactly at minimum wage, or people near min wage? Because i would bet a lot more than 2% of people make less than $10/hr.

3/17/2012 4:12:41 PM

Im the only one who assumed the picture meant "affording rent while also staying alive and meeting basic necessities"? Sure its not terribly difficult to eclipse the 600-700 you need after taxes to pay rent,, but then you have to... Eat, and shower, and keep the lights on etc. Most people i know making "minimum wage" (granted by now i dont know many) cant afford to live on their own without some other form of assistwnce

3/17/2012 4:31:46 PM

Quote :

"This is a pedantic observation considering that anyone of any age can be a college student."

so, then, you agree, that my statement is correct. The people most likely to be making minimum wage are HS and college students. thank you.

Quote :

"Is your 2% statistic people exactly at minimum wage, or people near min wage?"

at or below federal minimum wage.

Quote :

"Most people i know making "minimum wage" (granted by now i dont know many) cant afford to live on their own without some other form of assistwnce"

and statistics show that most people who earn minimum wage aren't the sole breadwinners, either. You know why you don't know many people who still make minimum wage? Because you don't know too many people working part time anymore, because they graduated.

3/17/2012 5:01:29 PM

Quote :

"So, which assumption was the correct one? A monthly FMR, or a weekly one? You tell me."

ITT, a lot of people look at a picture but are apparently too lazy to find the source (which isn't hard).

The fair market rent for a 2 bedroom apartment in North Carolina is $709 a month, or $8,508 a year. If we follow the general guidance that rent be about 1/3 of income, someone would need to make $28,360 a year--$13.63 an hour--to afford a 2 bedroom apartment in North Carolina.

The North Carolina minimum wage is $7.25. Using complex higher math, one can calculate that a minimum wage worker needs to work about 75 hours a week to afford a 2 bedroom apartment. This is exactly what the graph shows.

However, the average renter in North Carolina actually makes about $12.11 an hour and needs to work approximately 45 hours a week to afford the 2 bedroom apartment.

3/17/2012 5:02:17 PM

again, proving my point, that the original picture was absolute BS to begin with

3/17/2012 5:03:52 PM

You might have a point if you hadn't incorrectly assumed what the graph was trying to say.

3/17/2012 5:06:43 PM

well, if the graph had said it better, I wouldn't have had to make assumptions, would I?

3/17/2012 5:08:36 PM

Quote :

"You've got a HS/College student with a job, and you've got a non-HS/College student with a job. Which of the two do you think is more likely to be a part-time employee?"

all you've proved is that students are more likely to work part-time jobs

you have yet to prove that the majority of part-time employees are students

I've got a master's degree and I work a part-time job
so fuck yourself

3/17/2012 5:08:55 PM

which is what I was originally trying to get at, when I misspoke. oh gee, I said the wrong thing initially. an engineer doesn't have the best verbal skills. stop the presses! The point still remains. Part time jobs largely pay minimum wage, and minimum wage largely goes to part-time employees. So making any assumptions about a single person affording rent, by themselves, on a part-time job is completely and totally absurd

Quote :

"I've got a master's degree and I work a part-time job"

IIRC, you've also got a worthless undergrad degree. whose fault is that?

[Edited on March 17, 2012 at 5:12 PM. Reason : ]

3/17/2012 5:11:41 PM

Quote :

"well, if the graph had said it better, I wouldn't have had to make assumptions, would I?"

IT'S NOT MY FAULT I'M FAT AND STUPID!

3/17/2012 5:15:09 PM

so, I question what the picture is saying because it is quite nebulous, and that makes me fat and stupid? or, is it because I didn't take the time to research the nebulous claims of an anonymous picture on the interwebs?

3/17/2012 5:16:42 PM

Quote :

"I question what the picture is saying because it is quite nebulous"

How is it nebulous? Are you questioning whether or not it takes 75 hours a week at minimum wage to afford a two bedroom apartment in North Carolina, as the graph portrays?

Quote :

"or, is it because I didn't take the time to research"

Yes, you are stupid for choosing to wallow in assumptions and ignorance rather than take the three minutes (literally) needed to Google and read the source. This goes double for you, since you claim to be an engineer.

3/17/2012 5:19:51 PM

Quote :

"How is it nebulous?"

How isn't it nebulous? It says you have to work 75 hours a week in order to make enough money to pay Fair Market Rent. 1) What's FMR and how is it defined? 2) Is that a weekly rent number, or a monthly rent number?

If I have to ask the question without doing any further research, then it's unclear. That's kind of, you know, the definition of "unclear". Sure, I could do more research, but given that it was a picture posted on facebook, I deemed it not necessary to look any further, especially since it's obvious such a picture is trying to use a distortion of time rates to try and make a point, and a stupid one at that.

Even YOU admit that the picture is a bit of a non-sequitur. And yet you attack me for saying it's a stupid picture

now, if I were evaluating this picture for work, then I'd put some effort into it and do a little research. but it isn't for work. it's a facebook picture on thewolfweb. if someone else wants to take the time to find out what this vaguely stated point is using for its facts, then let em. I'll comment on the surface facts, which is that this picture suggests that you need to make 500 bux a week to pay the rent in full in NC for a 2BR apartment.


But, let's look at what this picture actually says: you have to work 75 hours a week at minimum wage to afford the rent. What does "afford the rent" mean? I'd say it's reasonable to say it means you can pay the rent. But you are saying it means "make 3 times the rent amount in order to qualify for the apartment." That's a whole lot more than what the picture actually says.

[Edited on March 17, 2012 at 5:38 PM. Reason : ]

3/17/2012 5:31:54 PM