I think you are attributing too many personal qualities to cells. Organisms don't decide to allocate cells, it just happens. Say some organisms mutate a cell that is sensitive to light. They get more food because the stuff they eat hangs out in the light for some reason, therefore that mutation gets selected for and over time that ability might become enhanced (into eyes). It's not like anyone decided that they needed eyes / a brain / a skeletal system.

I'm not sure how involuntary systems work, but (speculating) I think that is the primary use of most organisms brains. It regulates hunger, sex, breathing, circulating. For us, thinking is an additional peripheral function and just because it comes from the same brain doesn't necessarily mean we would have control over the other functions.

Also, in terms of the cancer example I think a lot of those types of responses occur without the brains intervention. The cells themselves take care of it locally.

In terms of aging, (again speculating) the DNA in sperm is separate from the DNA in all your various cells. At some point for whatever reason, your inter-cellular functions start to fail and things start to break - even if the DNA in your sperm is still fine. I think stem-cell research is all about injecting healthy new cells back in among old cells to kind of reset things when they start breaking.

The 'soul' is another difficult topic. I'd say it's a mental construct just like 'intelligence'

4/1/2012 3:34:19 PM

page 2 of a troll thread

4/1/2012 3:50:30 PM

Lets do something large.

4/1/2012 4:05:20 PM

Quote :

"I'm not sure how involuntary systems work, but (speculating) I think that is the primary use of most organisms brains. It regulates hunger, sex, breathing, circulating. For us, thinking is an additional peripheral function and just because it comes from the same brain doesn't necessarily mean we would have control over the other functions. "

just looking at whether it's possible to have voluntary and involuntary control, we look to breathing. We can do both. It makes no sense for us not to have access to information like "cell reproduction" when our own body does it a billion times a day. Look how important stem cell research is, we have to find out what we technically already know how to do. It just doesn't make sense in the grand scheme of things.

4/1/2012 4:45:06 PM

Seriously, how can college educated people be this stupid?

4/1/2012 6:16:35 PM

It will take off

/thread

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

4/1/2012 6:17:17 PM

Quote :

"Seriously, how can college educated people be this stupid?"

Go have trouble answering your own stupid question somewhere else.

4/1/2012 6:23:26 PM

I'll play.

Quote :

"What did penis and vagina evolve from? I could think of 1000 other ways that could be more easy to procreate, so who/what was in charge of this shift to penis and vaginae? Why did it choose the shape of the penis and vagina from an engineering standpoint. "

Our aquatic ancestors had to have a way of spraying sperm into the water. This allowed females to get pregnant. Females who got pregnant by everything weren't very fit so neither were their children.

Females with a mutation that made it difficult to impregnate them were more fit because now only the strongest, most potent males with the largest spray radius could pregnate them. This all accelerated on land.

Then males who could not spray far were not as fit as males with long narrow pipes tomaximize pressure.

Basically insurance that stronger males when have more babies. Easier ways to procreate died off because the weak were able to always do it.

Quote :

"Why did they incorporate pleasure when other species are said not to have pleasure yet they reproduce just fine."

individuals with mutation that gave them pleasure wanted to reproduce more and so they did and they made more babies and took over the population.

Quote :

"Why don't we have multiple forms of people that reproduce differently? Reproductive trial and error couldn't have all failed except this one."

yes and this all happened long before people or even mammals.

Quote :

"You can't evolve into two different constructs of DNA if a third or fourth can't or never happened naturally.""

actually all evolution is really is mutations and then natural selection over time. A mutation can occur to any part of the dna and occurs randomly but definitely. The body is always replicating dna to make cells and every now and then it screws up a letter in the code. Also the sun and other environmental factors can damage the code. Every change in the code can potentially lead to new traits which will be passed on to the next generation. If these traits make them more likely to die then they will fade out over several generations but if they help them live then the traits will explode and begin to dominate the population (since nobody with them dies young).

Thats all evolution is. Peoples main mistake is thinking evolution is going somewhere or some sort of progression. Its not. It just depends on whats good in the environment.

4/1/2012 7:29:44 PM

I'm Batman.

4/1/2012 7:39:16 PM

And you need a cough drop.

4/1/2012 8:05:49 PM

I have read a theory that the mushroom tip evolved to scoop out the semen of the previous dude to increase the odds of the sperm the latter guy deposits being the winner.


Also, do some googling on duck and elephant jimmy. You will be impressed.

4/1/2012 9:25:30 PM

Quote :

"It makes no sense for us not to have access to information like "cell reproduction" when our own body does it a billion times a day. Look how important stem cell research is, we have to find out what we technically already know how to do. It just doesn't make sense in the grand scheme of things."

I'm going to go with the opposite and say it makes no sense for the brain to have control over "cell reproduction." That would be a lot of stuff to control (think about how much cell activity is gong on all the time). It makes more sense for that to be decentralized to the cells themselves. They each read their own copy of DNA and use it to accomplish whatever they do. (remember bio?)

Also, things like not breathing, or not peeing are just muscles that we are using to oppose what we would otherwise do involuntarily. There's no way to consciously stop your heart beating for example.

4/1/2012 10:26:49 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_dimorphism



as well, you're questioning how a single DNA set can differentiate into two different sexual structures? Do you not consider that there are 2 ovaries or 2 testicles? You don't think those have a common proto-structure? I'm not even close to a biology major, but even I understand how some of that shit could have happened. Cursory readings of wikipedia could probably answer all of your questions

4/1/2012 10:49:32 PM

oh look another argument thread by genius boy thread inciting angry know-it-alls to spew their troves of google knowledge.

[Edited on April 2, 2012 at 12:06 AM. Reason : .]

4/2/2012 12:06:35 AM

I'm not reading through all of this evolution/intelligent design garbage, so forgive me if this has been posted, but...

Quote :

"Why did it choose the shape of the penis and vagina from an engineering standpoint. "

The shape of the vagina makes sense for most configurations -- you don't want something that sperm or babies just fall out of. The shape of the penis is supposedly designed to deposit said sperm as close to the target as possible, with the purpose of the "head" being to scrape out competitors' sperm if there is any.

Quote :

"Why did they incorporate pleasure when other species are said not to have pleasure yet they reproduce just fine."

We have plenty of evidence for sexual pleasure among more intelligent, social species. Dolphins and bonobos (these being our closest relatives) both have sex for fun. Many or most other animals have specific breeding seasons.

There's some common-sense reasons for the difference. Social species operate in a group (obviously), and it would get a lot more difficult to feed that group if all the females always got pregnant simultaneously (as would happen if they had "mating seasons").

For solitary predators like most big cats, a mating season makes sense because it allows animals to stay far apart for most of the year (and avoid competing for food), only to come together during reproductive periods. For some social predators (like wolves), it works for the same reason because only one pair in a group is reproductive. For social or semisocial herbivores, it allows for waves of offspring that can be easily defended (also these are often migratory so food supply is less of an issue).

So basically some animals fuck because, at certain times of the year, their hormones demand it. Others do it throughout the year because it's fun.

Quote :

"Why don't we have multiple forms of people that reproduce differently? "

There are several variations on reproduction throughout nature. Species that are "primitive" and rely on large numbers of untended offspring often have a female lay eggs so that a male can come fertilize them later. This doesn't work for "higher" mammals because it takes a long time (and a lot of parental care) for offspring to reach maturity. If your mom had just menstruated on the couch and your dad came by and jerked off on it later* and somehow you were fertilized and came to term, you would have died immediately because you'd be helpless. Some fish and amphibians do roughly the same thing but their offspring survive, because they're simple and come prepared. A tadpole can swim right away. A human infant, by contrast, can't do much more than cry and shit and eat, and it can only do that last one if someone feeds it.

[Edited on April 2, 2012 at 12:26 AM. Reason : *I'm pretty sure this is how Geniusboy came to be]

4/2/2012 12:25:50 AM

So you have a male and female, okay, we know that.
We know they are different.
The DNA is the same but one is female and one is male.
What wrote the difference?

When the sperm touches the egg, it is decided weather to grow a female or a male.
They APPEAR to be super different, but in reality, there are only minor differences in the DNA code.

It's always made me wonder how estrogen could turn a guy into a girl, but it couldn't physically morph the genitalia. It can even make boobs grow on a man.




Let's say you have the DNA code
T - A
C - G
A - T
G - C

How does it read "Blonde hair" or "Blue eyes". More importantly, what if we changed or messed with the DNA which is possible here:

Quote :

"A typical human cell contains about 150,000 bases that have suffered oxidative damage.[65] Of these oxidative lesions, the most dangerous are double-strand breaks, as these are difficult to repair and can produce point mutations, insertions and deletions from the DNA sequence, as well as chromosomal translocations.[66]"

Who reads and carries out these messed up DNA messages? What is the difference between mumbojumbo DNA versus legible DNA. For instance, what's telling an element like phosphorous, oxygen, nitrogen, hydrogen, and/or carbon to go attach itself to another element or molecule or protein to form something it's never seen before?

This is what gets me:

Quote :

" Quadruplex structures At the ends of the linear chromosomes are specialized regions of DNA called telomeres. The main function of these regions is to allow the cell to replicate chromosome ends using the enzyme telomerase, as the enzymes that normally replicate DNA cannot copy the extreme 3' ends of chromosomes.[44] These specialized chromosome caps also help protect the DNA ends, and stop the DNA repair systems in the cell from treating them as damage to be corrected.[45] In human cells, telomeres are usually lengths of single-stranded DNA containing several thousand repeats of a simple TTAGGG sequence.[46]"

It sounds an awfully like we were programmed.
DNA <---> code
DNA repair system <--> operating system diagnostics?
telomeres <--> end of file


To me, it seems like someone coded this. If a computer can't be a computer without someone programming it to do what it does, there has to be someone or something out there with intelligence.


It's just too difficult for this stuff to write on its own. We are the only known planet with life and yet we have millions of different lifeforms based on the same code on the same planet with life?? Come on. There's got to be another naturally evolving code somewhere. The humans on earth have been separately long enough to develop different languages, but yet the DNA can be read just fine when a white guy sleeps with an asian or black woman and procreates. What does this mean?

Also,
If the universe is billions of years old like they claim, I'm assuming some other life form out there must have HAD 1,000,000 years head start. Seeing how we evolved from the dark ages to space explorers in 1000 years, I find it impossible for other life forms not to have taken over any section of the universe within our reach of sight IF life were to formed by evolution anywhere else in the universe.


Yes, none of this is proven, and I'm keeping my eyes and ears open for logical answers. I'm constantly trying to prove myself wrong. I'll probably meet my maker before I figure this out though

4/2/2012 12:37:45 AM

Quote :

"Dolphins and bonobos (these being our closest relatives) both have sex for fun."

I implore you all, once you read up on the tools wielded by he-ducks and elephants, to read the Wiki article on bonobos. Specifically, the part about sexual behavior. They are straight-up freaks.

4/2/2012 12:42:27 AM

I was surprised recently to learn how important viruses are for gene transfer.

In fact, there's a good case to say that without viruses playing with our DNA and generally wrecking the house, the # of chromosomes wouldn't have changed. correct me if I'm wrong.

So in a sense we don't only transfer and recombine genes through sex, there are also viruses. So giving someone HIV is like 2 birds with one stone.

4/2/2012 12:55:46 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YhctjkCLwQ

4/2/2012 1:46:34 AM

What desogner would put an entertainment center in a sewage system

4/2/2012 2:15:35 AM

Err, ah, you mean who would put the shithole so close to the snackbar?

4/2/2012 6:21:03 AM

fucking magnets

4/2/2012 6:47:41 AM

Quote :

"What wrote the difference?"

Mutations wrote the difference. Every several million times, dna replication makes an error. This creates new code that is passed down. Differences are ALWAYS being written randomly.

Quote :

"How does it read "Blonde hair" or "Blue eyes". More importantly, what if we changed or messed with the DNA which is possible here:"

Each three letter code is a a code for an amino acid and several amino acids are strung together to make proteins. Blonde people have coding to make a protein that gives their hair the blonde color.

There are something like 26 amino acids and stop codes that separate proteins. These are the building blocks for all life.

Quote :

"Who reads and carries out these messed up DNA messages? What is the difference between mumbojumbo DNA versus legible DNA. For instance, what's telling an element like phosphorous, oxygen, nitrogen, hydrogen, and/or carbon to go attach itself to another element or molecule or protein to form something it's never seen before?"

You should really read into dna transcription, translation and protein synthesis or take a high school biology class. I take it you went to an evangelical school that taught fake biology.

The code is read by RNA inside each cell and that tells the cell what proteins it needs to make. Its like having a blueprint for the jobs the cell needs to do just like each mcdonalds has all the instructions for making food. The cell then assembles those proteins to carry out its jobs. Every trait is coded by proteins which are made up of amino acids.

Quote :

"It sounds an awfully like we were programmed. DNA <---> code DNA repair system <--> operating system diagnostics? telomeres <--> end of file "

good analogy

Quote :

"I find it impossible for other life forms not to have taken over any section of the universe within our reach of sight IF life were to formed by evolution anywhere else in the universe."

Then you don't really understand the scale of the universe. We can barely see any of the universe and the thing is so large that it seems plausible to never see all of it. Theoretically, light from our sun's birth still hasn't reached most of the universe so most of the universe has no idea our galaxy even exists. Pretty crazy when you look up at the sky and see light that stars emitted before our own sun existed. 13 billion light years is along way and that is nothing in the grand scale of the universe.

4/2/2012 1:20:41 PM

Quote :

"Theoretically, light from our sun's birth still hasn't reached most of the universe so most of the universe has no idea our galaxy even exists."

This isn't theory. It's reality. Not to mention our sun isn't luminous enough to be seen by many distant objects.

4/2/2012 1:38:58 PM

Quote :

"Then you don't really understand the scale of the universe. We can barely see any of the universe and the thing is so large that it seems plausible to never see all of it. Theoretically, light from our sun's birth still hasn't reached most of the universe so most of the universe has no idea our galaxy even exists. Pretty crazy when you look up at the sky and see light that stars emitted before our own sun existed. 13 billion light years is along way and that is nothing in the grand scale of the universe."

According to my code/game theory, the universe is only to size of the observable universe.

What that means is that, the universe is virtual. Doesn't exist when when nobody is looking at it.

Things that exist that we never know exist in our lifetime... never really existed in the first place.

Think about the billions of things that you don't know right now, do they or don't they exist?

It begs the question: Would the universe still exist without anyone here to observe it? What would a universe without any players do with itself?

4/2/2012 1:44:47 PM

What the fuck are you smoking?

4/2/2012 1:45:37 PM

^if it's the same thing you're smoking, probably cock.

4/2/2012 1:49:09 PM

The universe would exist quite fine without us. It has been for a long time.

You realize we've only existed as an evolved species for .00036% of the age of the universe, right?

4/2/2012 1:51:26 PM

Planes, trains, and automobiles. None of those things existed in this universe until we thought of them.

Think of all the theories we've had in the past. Starting with Leeuwenhoek and Bohr. Someone thought of it and later it was proved. It wasn't until someone thought of something else when it was disproved or expanded upon. But if you stand at the instance of time when it was proved, then the world worked according to that theory. But if you stand at the instance of time when it was disproven, it seems the words doesn't work according to the old theory anymore.

What I'm trying to say is.

This universe is made out of the collectives of all of our imaginations combined, plus some preprogrammed code that was used to form the universe so that we'd actually have a universe to play in.

The game would be no fun/not taken seriously if we never died.
The game would be no fun/not taken seriously if we respawned after dying
The game would be no fun/not taken seriously if we couldn't do anything we imagined or dreamed.
The game would be no fun/not taken seriously if we already knew the information our bodies already know in repairing itself.

"Follow your dreams". When you follow them, you usually get what you want.
When you don't follow them, you don't get what you want. But in reality, you got what you wanted by not following them.



[Edited on April 2, 2012 at 2:04 PM. Reason : .]

4/2/2012 2:00:06 PM

^

4/2/2012 2:03:09 PM

^^

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

[Edited on April 2, 2012 at 2:05 PM. Reason : ]

4/2/2012 2:04:37 PM

Quote :

" Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?"

yes, that is a product of me erasing thoughts and retyping them over and over to overcome my expressive aphasia. thank you for pointing that out.

4/2/2012 2:06:11 PM