So what degrees are good?

I like how people pretend to have authority to determine with a degree of worth or is worthless. We all should major in engineering!!

[Edited on April 23, 2012 at 9:16 AM. Reason : /]

4/23/2012 9:14:33 AM

Any degree can be good; it depends on the individual and job market. But I'm willing to bet we need a whole lot more STEM majors than art majors. If we want to have so many people in non-STEM majors, then we need to start gearing a lot of that towards creating future educators, and then it's a better vehicle to provide financial aid.

[Edited on April 23, 2012 at 9:16 AM. Reason : .]

[Edited on April 23, 2012 at 9:18 AM. Reason : .]

4/23/2012 9:15:50 AM

Quote :

"other countries (cough, China, cough) identify the smart kids and groom them. they take the less-intelligent and send them to appropriate trade schools , when needed."

Now, that's the wrong mindset. You can have a perfectly intelligent kid thrive in something like automechanics or woodworking. There's nothing wrong with that.

Or go straight to Cisco out of high school, instead of dicking around getting a degree.

Also, I have a CHASS degree (2 actually) that serve me very well, and have improved my marketability in law.

4/23/2012 9:18:15 AM

nvm

[Edited on April 23, 2012 at 9:19 AM. Reason : -]

4/23/2012 9:18:37 AM

Quote :

"it depends on the individual "

This goes with ANY degree. Most people are not willing to take a lower paying that they expected to take right out of school and often get depressed because of this and then comes social pressures that just make it harder for them in general.

Also what else happens is that a person feels the NEED to have an advance degree since a bachelor's will presumably not allow them to make enough money to support a delusional lifestyle, and obviously the debt piles on as a result.

[Edited on April 23, 2012 at 9:24 AM. Reason : v OK.]

4/23/2012 9:19:06 AM

^^^I think you're talking the reverse of what I am. If a smart kid wants to do woodworking, then fine. And I also said that CHASS degrees can lead to very successful (and marketable skills) jobs. However, the majority of CHASS majors aren't going into fields such as law.


^I said that (the first part) and see my post on the other page about college admissions in general. There is a lot more to it than just degree, as I previously said. It's about identifying individuals who are intelligent, motivated, willing to learn, and who are prepared for college and making something of it. But dealing with majors, high schoolers need to be better educated on what majors are available, what marketability they have, what they lead to (career or further schooling), and the costs associated with the degree. I don't see why we ship so many kids off to get a communications degree, just to end up working a job that requires no degree.

[Edited on April 23, 2012 at 9:26 AM. Reason : .]

[Edited on April 23, 2012 at 9:27 AM. Reason : .]

4/23/2012 9:20:35 AM

I think that too many people are forced into the college track that don't need to be... people with an aptitude for trades need to be encouraged in high school to take that path so they can go ahead and get the training they need instead of wasting time and money on a 4 year college.

4/23/2012 9:31:29 AM

some people bring debt to college, i.e. they don't go to college directly out of high school

life happens

not everyone comes to college debt free

4/23/2012 9:32:25 AM

^^exactly

My high school did a decent job of identifying those interested and capable of pursuing a nursing career and got them into a nursing training program during high school. A lot of them continued in that field and didn't waste time/money on a worthless 4-yr degree. Where the program failed, partly, is that it wasn't exclusive enough, as they let it turn into something the cool girls did, regardless of their intentions.

^what does that have to do with this discussion.


[Edited on April 23, 2012 at 9:36 AM. Reason : .]

4/23/2012 9:32:44 AM

Well, back to the exact topic at hand, I support this move to give student loan relief. Education should be free anyway. We bailed out the banks, so why not bail out Joe?

4/23/2012 9:36:52 AM

for the record, HR 4170 is a minority party-introduced bill that is, and will stay, parked in the Military Personnel subcommittee of the HASC. that fucker isn't moving anywhere, plus it's only got 13 cosponsors.

[Edited on April 23, 2012 at 9:37 AM. Reason : .]

4/23/2012 9:37:07 AM

^^basic education should and is free. secondary education, in its current form, is too expensive. besides, there need to be some barriers in high education for the very reason of not wasting taxpayer money and students' time. if everyone went to college for free, we'd overload the system, waste billions, if not, trillions of dollars, and still have a poorly-educated populace problem. many college degrees are very expensive to obtain (talking actual costs, not what people are charged, e.g. nuclear engineering and having a nuclear reactor and other research-heavy areas). We don't need to send the message that everyone should go to college and making it free does that. by placing a price on a college degree, you are demonstrating that the degree and future job prospects have some monetary value, that college degrees are more valuable in life than (for the right individual), and that getting a degree and having to pay for it mean you need a job that pays enough to payback/pay for that degree. Free education is not free. It's expensive as shit. We don't need a farm boy getting a $50,000 4-year degree if he's just going to run dad's farm.

[Edited on April 23, 2012 at 9:45 AM. Reason : .]

4/23/2012 9:40:07 AM

Quote :

"I took out a lot of loans to pay for my law school. I took out the minimum for each year of law school, and only two years of undergrad (worked through both undergrad and law school). I still had over $100k on student loans. "

w-w-why would you do this to yourself? Is there any case that the job market for law grads justifies this? How does this principle compare to the savings ability of someone just out of law school?

People keep mentioning engineering, but if there was one degree worth borrowing for right now it would probably be nursing school, although I am not educated enough to say whatever variety is good. I've heard several people make the point to me that the unemployment for people with nursing degrees is functionally zero.

I think we can't see the forest for the trees. I'm going to post something from TSB.



The majority of Americans are becoming (or have become) non-participants in the capital markets. You're only consumers of capital. But capital is what you need control of in order to call the shots in society. Translation: you're not going to be calling the shots. I mean, think about how much of the income of the rich comes from direct debt servicing payments from the non-rich?

My point is that it wasn't supposed to be this way. Someone (or 100s of millions of people) fucked up. But here's the real deal - if the majority of society becomes completely dependent on payments for their labor to just plain subsist, then as a collective group they are just going to be completely pwnd. The way that the rich live now is the way that we all should be living.

God, I need to stop posting in chit chat.

4/23/2012 9:44:51 AM

People are definitely going to game the system to keep from paying their loans back in full.

I know this girl that has enough for two mortgages racked up in student loan debt, she did not graduate, her min payment is literally more than my house payment, and she moved back in with her parents. She is an asst manager at a retail store which does not require a degree.

I do not mind helping people out when its for the greater good.....but there should also be a penalty for epic stupidity. There should also be a penalty for a bank who keeps loaning a student gobs of money for a crappy degree or shitty academic performance.

4/23/2012 9:45:13 AM

Quote :

"w-w-why would you do this to yourself? Is there any case that the job market for law grads justifies this? How does this principle compare to the savings ability of someone just out of law school?"

I have a job, and I'm not concerned about my debt. It's already down to $75k since graduating last year, and we put aside money every month for savings. It was the right decision for ME to take on that kind of debt. I can't speak to anyone else, but it definitely was the right choice. We live frugally, but well. So, I don't see what your beef is with that.

This was a public school, minimum loans per year, and I worked throughout law school to pay for rent, etc. So, definitely not a crazy move on my part.

[Edited on April 23, 2012 at 9:50 AM. Reason : ]

4/23/2012 9:49:49 AM

Taking a loan out to major in glass blowing at a $55k/yr SUNY school is not a sound life decision.

4/23/2012 9:55:09 AM

College has gotten prohibitively expensive BECAUSE of student loans.

If we'd just do away with the damn loans then we could get back to going to schools that don't have billion dollar facilities and millionaire administrators. Do we really need plasma screen tvs in the gym?

Look, administrators are never going to turn down gobs of money so it's up to the citizens to say enough is enough. No more abundant student loans, let's bring the price of college back down to realistic levels.

Now that you can learn anything you need to know more efficiently on-line there is no reason for these expensive colleges. We have to change the system our country is wallowing in $1 trillion worth of student loans.

I'd be all for forgiving SOME of the student loans if we'd agree to stop poisoning future generations with all these effing loans.

But if we're just going to perpetuate the system then hell no, don't forgive the loans. That just creates even more inflation/money printing and that's the last thing we need we're already on the brink of complete anarchy in the economy.

[Edited on April 23, 2012 at 10:00 AM. Reason : a]

4/23/2012 9:59:30 AM

Just answer this: do you or do you not support the proposition of this bill?

Y/N

4/23/2012 10:01:16 AM

No

4/23/2012 10:01:33 AM

the thing i despise the most is the for-profit colleges that charge an arm and a leg for a degree. I'm looking at you Phoenix, Devry.

4/23/2012 10:01:45 AM

No

This money is still owed. Who ends up paying for it? Why should these people get off, while others have worked hard to pay their loans?

4/23/2012 10:02:56 AM

Yes.

4/23/2012 10:03:47 AM

Anyone that supports this (that isn't biased because they have loans they don't want to repay) is really sick in the head.

As someone who chose to go to NC State instead of a top school because I have some respect for money I'd be livid if this goes through.

Save $100k by going to NC State, oh shit i just got an inferior education for nothing

4/23/2012 10:05:56 AM

Yes


Because it's in my self-interest to do so.


I mean if I could find a job that paid a livable wage and I could pay back my loans, sure, I'd absolutely do it. Without question.

But the government hitting the "reset" button would completely change my life and take a huge weight off of my shoulder, a weight that most cannot even begin to understand.

4/23/2012 10:06:29 AM

Hahaha, man the hater count in this thread is astounding lol.

4/23/2012 10:07:17 AM

How about just call it a retroactive Pell Grant?

4/23/2012 10:08:45 AM

If you get your student loan paid off I should get the money back that went towards my tuition, right?

If not, then they should at least pay off the rest of my mortgage. And I haven't paid for my TV yet so they need to tack that on. And I have a year left on my car payment.

Also, I'd love season tickets for NC State. Champions Club please.

Okay, we're not even at $100k yet and I've gotten my money back from college, my mortgage paid off, a 60" 3D tv, club seats/season tickets, and my bmw paid off.

This is a sweet deal. What? You don't want to increase your taxes to pay this shit off for me?

What if I said "please, you dont understand"

4/23/2012 10:10:48 AM

lol

yeah

4/23/2012 10:12:25 AM

^^^^^thanks for wanting to fuck the taxpayers because you don't want to be responsible for yourself and your actions.

I think my auto loan and mortgage should be paid by everyone else because that would greatly change my life and help me out.

[Edited on April 23, 2012 at 10:13 AM. Reason : .]

4/23/2012 10:12:37 AM

discussion on Diane Rehm Show (NPR) as I type

4/23/2012 10:14:46 AM

look at your attitude

of course i'd want to fuck you over at every chance I'd get.


derp.



and LOL @ "you don't want to pay your debts."

THATS EXACTLY WHAT IT IS.

4/23/2012 10:15:22 AM

What about those of us that are naturally intelligent who earned a scholarship? I'd like to be paid to attend college.

4/23/2012 10:21:37 AM

lol


that's not you.


charlatan.

4/23/2012 10:23:08 AM

By the time I graduate in 19 days, I will have accumulated about $60K in loans for grad school. I cannot work during this program (literally, I can't) and being an out-of-state student makes a big difference. I went out of state because, well, it's a little hard to get into the only program in NC when there's only 6 to 8 spots (and to be honest, I like this program more).


That being said, I would never choose for the government to give me back my loans. Why? Because I made that commitment when I signed the forms and I knew what was involved when I chose this field. There are no scholarships for the majority of these programs, and I knew going into a brand new program there would be no assistantships, stipends, whatever.


People need to buck up and take responsibility. I think some things should change with the loans, like maybe not making the interest as high and making it more affordable from person to person, but to forgive many people of their debt is craziness to me. What's the point of even offering student loans then?

4/23/2012 10:25:04 AM

^ Exactly.

If they'd do away with most of the loans then the price of college would come down to the level where people can afford to go to college.

That would benefit people who can afford to go to college as well as people who can't currently afford to go to college.

Instead we are just punishing the people who chose to work instead of racking up debt?? Makes no sense.

4/23/2012 10:28:35 AM

its what the obama administration do

4/23/2012 10:29:16 AM

Quote :

"If they'd do away with most of the loans then the price of college would come down to the level where people can afford to go to college."

Truth.

Same thing happened with housing "easy" financing = prices soar. Now we are paying dearly, college should be affordable to those who are willing to fight for it, not promised to everyone with a pulse.

4/23/2012 10:32:18 AM

You people do realize that you have to pay 10% of your discretionary income for 10 years in order to qualify for this program right?

Most are not doing this now.

4/23/2012 10:33:48 AM

Exactly, this is a political ploy by the Obama administration.

He got swept into power with the help of the idiot legions of youth who blindly voted for him and ignored the repercussions of if he won.

Now that they can't get jobs due in large part to the policies he pursued while in office they have started to turn on Obama.

Obama knows if he offers up a too good to be true $100,000 lottery ticket that will disproportionately go to the youth then he can win their support back.

It is truly disgusting.

4/23/2012 10:35:16 AM

10% of discretionary income is not a large hurdle, at all.

4/23/2012 10:35:19 AM

You keep thinking it not , but for a lot of people it is.

4/23/2012 10:36:00 AM

Quote :

"The Downfall of Democracy Rarely have democracies survived beyond 200 years. Why do democracies fail? Two of the major reasons are: 1) democracies generally progress through an initial period from bondage to spiritual faith escalating to the point where the citizens become totally dependent on the government to where they eventually revert back to bondage, and 2) once the democracy shows signs of prosperity, citizens vote themselves generous bounties from the public treasury. Does this not sound familiar? Is democracy only a temporary and marred refuge until social engineers miraculously discover the ultimate solution?"

http://www.apatheticvoter.com/Article_DownfallDemocracies.htm

4/23/2012 10:36:42 AM

Get that emotional garbage out of here, lol.

4/23/2012 10:37:23 AM

Quote :

"You keep thinking it not , but for a lot of people it is."

For some people, that could be $0 or $10. That's certainly not a lot on any standards. And if your discretionary income is higher than that, then you should be paying back your loans.

4/23/2012 10:39:14 AM

Oh, now come back to reality and make a realistic example.

[Edited on April 23, 2012 at 10:40 AM. Reason : /]

4/23/2012 10:39:56 AM

That is a realistic example. Do you know what discretionary income is based on? It's after ALL your bills are paid. How much do you think that is, for the average new grad?

4/23/2012 10:41:02 AM

10% becomes easier the more you make.


If you make 30k per year, the 3k you owe will be a lot more cumbersome than the 10k you'd owe if you made 100k per year.

Hmm. Discretionary income and not gross or net?

Interesting.

Well that changes some things. That's a lot more manageable.

[Edited on April 23, 2012 at 10:43 AM. Reason : .]

4/23/2012 10:42:08 AM

Quote :

" . We need to get off the idea that Bobby-Ann's and Bobby-Ray's son, Bobby-Bob, needs to get a 4 year degree to work on gran-pappy's, Bobby-Robert, farm."

we need to get of the idea that you need a four year degree to be a computer nerd, too.
you're right, I want a bunch of uneducated hicks producing all my food.

4/23/2012 10:42:38 AM

^^ "discretionary" doesn't mean what you think it means

[Edited on April 23, 2012 at 10:43 AM. Reason : a]

4/23/2012 10:42:54 AM

No, I do not know what it is.

For a new grad it could be $60 a month. A new grad would probably make $15/hour, have a roommate, and live rather cheaply. Also, the minimum payment on the loan is what one would probably be paying, which would be more than 10%.

4/23/2012 10:43:52 AM