Quote :

"Cars don't have a spiral of adverse selection that insurance does, so that is a horrible analogy. Find one better and then we can talk."

doesn't matter. they can force you to buy anything now

6/28/2012 11:25:00 AM

ahahaha and now it looks like WRAL's server has crashed.

6/28/2012 11:27:08 AM

I think one of the funnier aspects of the legislation is the myth of the "pre-existing condition".

House burned down but I didn't have home insurance. I want home insurance to cover that damage retroactively. The burned home was a pre-existing condition.

Got in a wreck, it was my fault, totaled my car. Only had liability insurance, not comprehensive. I want insurance to cover that damage. The wrecked car was a pre-existing condition.

Anyone else see how absurd this is? You don't get insurance for things that happened, you get insurance for things that might happen. It's supposed to be about pooling risk to offset costs of potential catastrophic events.

6/28/2012 11:29:36 AM

The problem is health insurance companies will pull shit like you have a melanoma biopsied years ago and you were declared 100% cured. But because you have that on your record, they won't cover you for cancer.

Personally I think if we never called it insurance in the first place we wouldn't be having arguments like this. "Healthcare coverage" etc.

6/28/2012 11:32:17 AM

^you sir win an Internet

Quote :

"doesn't matter. they can force you to buy anything now"

The opinion actually rejected an expansion in interpretation of the Commerce Clause, and it noted that you don't actually have to buy even health insurance, you'll just get a small tax if you don't and weren't exempt.

6/28/2012 11:33:40 AM

Yeah, and it's not like you have to pay the tax. Guys with guns won't show up if you refuse. They won't blow your brains out if you resist arrest. It's all voluntary and optional.

6/28/2012 11:40:35 AM

a friend of mine on Facebook keeps stating how the constitution has taken a huge blow

also he misses the days of natural selection

6/28/2012 11:54:38 AM

Quote :

"lol at the heads exploding on Pack Pride"

Yep. This is my favorite so far:



RAWRRRR. Get you some dawg! You show 'em little buddy!

6/28/2012 11:56:27 AM

Enjoy

http://www.buzzfeed.com/daves4/people-moving-to-canada-because-of-obamacare

Quote :

"I'm moving to Canada, the United States is entirely too socialist."

lolololol WAT???

6/28/2012 12:02:51 PM

hahah

6/28/2012 12:03:19 PM

^^For those that are saying that they will move:



[Edited on June 28, 2012 at 12:06 PM. Reason : Like this one better]

6/28/2012 12:05:33 PM

6/28/2012 12:12:12 PM

Quote :

"whats the fine?....this is why we have people trying to kill presidents.."

I'll just admit that I'm confused that it was upheld under the taxing power AND the anti-injunction act doesn’t apply because it’s not a tax.

Quote :

"Impose an annual penalty of $95, or up to 1% of income, whichever is greater, on individuals who do not secure insurance; this will rise to $695, or 2.5% of income, by 2016. This is an individual limit; families have a limit of $2,085.[23][82] Exemptions to the fine in cases of financial hardship or religious beliefs are permitted.[23]"

[Edited on June 28, 2012 at 12:24 PM. Reason : ]

6/28/2012 12:14:17 PM

6/28/2012 1:57:39 PM

Quote :

"Nearly 50% of Americans pay no individual income tax, and are already getting "free" healthcare through Medicaid and other government subsidies"

Holy shit, not paying income tax doesn't even come close to qualifying you for medicaid or any other subsidies for that matter.

6/28/2012 2:25:37 PM

I think Medicaid is something around ~16% of people. And if you add up Medicaid, Medicare, and VA benefits it's about 25%. And obviously there are income limits to Medicaid, which are not very high.

[Edited on June 28, 2012 at 2:32 PM. Reason : ]

6/28/2012 2:30:21 PM

Hey Beethoven

6/28/2012 2:42:58 PM

6/28/2012 2:46:02 PM

Quote :

"I'll just admit that I'm confused that it was upheld under the taxing power AND the anti-injunction act doesn’t apply because it’s not a tax."

It's a penalty. Its being collected by the IRS and called a tax but its not in the IRC.

[Edited on June 28, 2012 at 4:42 PM. Reason : s]

6/28/2012 4:32:08 PM

Quote :

"I think one of the funnier aspects of the legislation is the myth of the "pre-existing condition". House burned down but I didn't have home insurance. I want home insurance to cover that damage retroactively. The burned home was a pre-existing condition. Got in a wreck, it was my fault, totaled my car. Only had liability insurance, not comprehensive. I want insurance to cover that damage. The wrecked car was a pre-existing condition. Anyone else see how absurd this is? You don't get insurance for things that happened, you get insurance for things that might happen. It's supposed to be about pooling risk to offset costs of potential catastrophic events."

Translation: Die motherfucker!

6/28/2012 4:38:18 PM

A penalty for inaction. Sounds legit.

Quote :

"Translation: Die motherfucker!"

Right, that's what I meant to say.

[Edited on June 28, 2012 at 4:42 PM. Reason : ]

6/28/2012 4:41:13 PM

is there going to be an affordable option for me?

because there isn't currently one

6/28/2012 4:42:27 PM

I'd rather they fine the dipshits for not buying healthcare coverage than fine everyone else who has to pay for the visits to the ER the dipshits take whenever they have a cold and don't have healthcare coverage.

Quote :

"is there going to be an affordable option for me? because there isn't currently one"

I think it'll be interesting to see what sort of bare bones plans the companies will come out with to fleece people of their money. "Look you have coverage but not really because we'll deny all your claims!"

[Edited on June 28, 2012 at 4:44 PM. Reason : a]

6/28/2012 4:42:59 PM

6/28/2012 5:17:31 PM

Quote :

"A penalty for inaction."

TIL the migraines I've had since I was 6 were caused by my inaction.

6/28/2012 5:24:02 PM

Quote :

"On Obamacare: Here's how I see it. If I had not been allowed to stay on my parent's health insurance I would be staring down 19,000 dollars in medical bills caused by an accident. I would have been forced to go back to NC, unlikely to find a job, and unable to afford to go back to school. Being away has not only blessed me with a chance to explore the West but to actually make a reasonable stab at standing on my own two feet. I am still paying off medical bills, and they suck, but they would have been insurmountable without insurance. If I had gone home I would be stuck living with my parents with questionable employment and no light at the end of the tunnel. I would have curled inward and I don't really know if I would have had the courage to try - try at anything at all - ever again. 19,000 is more than I make in a year, easy. So you can tell me about how all those disabled/deformed/cancer-ridden children are the exception, the "extreme scenario" but Obamacare saved my ass and I'm sure many more like mine. Because you can tell yourself that you wouldn't have needed it but you don't get to decide when you break a bone falling from a bike, or get hit by a car, or any other of a long string of maladies that exist around every corner, every day. If you're going to tell me how horrible Obamacare is I ask you this: exactly how has it ruined your life irreparably? Because it hasn't. Without it, mine would have been. So the next time you try to tell me that preserving my health, my sanity, and my overall well-being is ruining America: fuck you. I'm just as American as you are."

I'm tempted to reply with "U mad?"

6/28/2012 5:39:22 PM

Quote :

"TIL the migraines I've had since I was 6 were caused by my inaction."

I don't understand how supporters of this legislation come up with this shit. I oppose two things: forcing people to buy insurance, and forcing insurance companies to cover people they would not otherwise cover due to the fact that, well, covering people that are already sick is not insurance and it's not a viable business model.

I'm not sentencing you to death. I'm not saying you deserve to have migraines or that anyone deserves to die. That's an argument from emotion that you make to avoid having a real discussion.

6/28/2012 5:53:09 PM

^ You're just saying they should be impoverished by medical bills because they can't receive healthcare coverage?

http://www.buzzfeed.com/gavon/the-internet-responds-to-supreme-court-ruling-on-o



lol

6/28/2012 6:08:45 PM

Quote :

"^ You're just saying they should be impoverished by medical bills because they can't receive healthcare coverage?"

No, I'm not. How was this the logical response to what I said?

I've heard these things:

"You think people should die"
"You think I should have health problems"
"You think no one should get medical care"
"You think people should go bankrupt"

And let me translate these statements: "There is a problem. You don't want the government to deal with the problem in the way that Congress and the President decided to, so you don't want the problem solved at all."

So, stop with the fallacies, and if you ever want to talk about real solutions (rather than cheerleading half-baked legislation from bought and paid for politicians), then we can.

[Edited on June 28, 2012 at 6:31 PM. Reason : ]

6/28/2012 6:18:55 PM

^I fucking love destroyer's posts

STFU whiny libs, healthcare is a service. CONSUMPTION REQUIRES PRODUCTION!

6/28/2012 6:23:50 PM

^^ Since you have not offered what you think the solution should be, we only have your half-correct ideas of how these companies define and use "pre-existing conditions" to deny healthcare coverage to individuals. I agree that this legislation is not the solution, but as long as politicians are in the pockets of lobbyists it's sadly the best start to reform we'll probably get. Personally I would like to see a system similar to Australia's but I doubt that would ever happen.

6/28/2012 9:30:38 PM

its not a "start" to any reform. it's more of the fucking problem!

6/28/2012 9:41:50 PM

Quote :

"I think one of the funnier aspects of the legislation is the myth of the "pre-existing condition"."

I agree with your overall sentiment; however, the reason this isn't entirely a falsehood is that we have foolishly created (through an idiotic tax code) a system of employer-based healthcare. We need to change the tax code and divorce healthcare coverage from employment. That way, when you lose your job, you aren't boned when it comes time to get new health insurance. You just buy a health coverage policy and keep it in force all along, just like if you were self-employed.

6/28/2012 10:48:47 PM

Read this. it's a great tl;dr version of what's in the bill.

http://www.reddit.com/tb/vbkfm

Most people tend to fall into the category of it's good or it's bad and generally have no idea what actually changes.

it's either "herp, taxes blah blah constitution duurrrr ObamaCare bad"

or "derpity derp, free healthcare for all thanks ObamaCare!"

there are a lot of different aspects to the bill, ranging from very good to very bad, with a lot in the middle. It's not the end of the world as we know it, nor is it a panacea for fixing the healthcare system in the country either.

[Edited on June 29, 2012 at 12:25 AM. Reason : .]

6/29/2012 12:24:53 AM

Quote :

"We need to change the tax code and divorce healthcare coverage from employment. That way, when you lose your job, you aren't boned when it comes time to get new health insurance. You just buy a health coverage policy and keep it in force all along, just like if you were self-employed."

This.

6/29/2012 7:21:34 AM

I win btw. my prediction wasn't perfect, but it was close! 4 of the justices held it up on CC grounds, so I was off by one Justice's reasoning. 5-4 upholding ftw!

6/29/2012 8:30:12 AM

Quote :

"That way, when you lose your job, you aren't boned when it comes time to get new health insurance. You just buy a health coverage policy and keep it in force all along, just like if you were self-employed."

Yep. And my parents are perfectly good examples of that happening to people who do all the right things in life.

6/29/2012 8:31:18 AM

I've known a couple of people that has happened to and it blows. You can't really predict that you're going to get laid off and unable to find new work right away. I was terrified when I was unemployed for a couple of months in 2010 that I would get into an accident or something and be completely screwed because I couldn't afford the shitty plans offered to individuals.

6/29/2012 8:47:47 AM

I also think health insurance needs to be divorced from employers; however, my fear there is if salaries/wages will be properly adjusted to provide those benefits back to employees 1) because the total benefits package should go unchanged and 2) to purchase insurance, which is very expensive for some. I'm not sure how this can be regulated...

Secondly, I am glad insurance companies will no longer be able to deny coverage based on pre-existing conditions - that is a huge issue because pretty much everyone has some type of pre-existing condition, some aren't as bad as others, and some just don't know it because they don't care/go to the doctor. When I was on my parent's insurance, I would go to the doctor for issues... which came back to bite me because when I applied for my own insurance, I got denied for pre-existing conditions. So doing the right then by going to the doctor, trying to get better, I get fucked by the insurance companies... makes sense .

However, I don't care for the insurance requirement or penalty; I know this was essentially watered down; however, much of the idea survived. I would rather see it all go away as I truly believe the government shouldn't be forcing individuals to purchase services/products. Of course, my idea of better insurance is way out there and not attainable, so this point is moot. Essentially I'd rather individuals purchase just "insurance", which covers everything you want it to (health, care, home, life, etc., the more you add, the more you pay) and it covers you for anything that happens under that policy, thus no need for the state government to require vehicle insurance (your insurance, if you have it, covers you - such that if someone causes a wreck, each person's insurance covers themselves).

I strongly agree with more regulation on all insurance; from rate increases, to when/how you can be dropped. Does this law impact how insurance companies can drop you? If you get really sick, can your insurance still drop you? That should be illegal, IMHO. You have insurance for a reason, but when some people use it, the insurance company is like, "fuck that, you used us???? bye bye then!"

[Edited on June 29, 2012 at 8:48 AM. Reason : .]

6/29/2012 8:48:21 AM

If my premiums go down, the ACA is good. If they go up, the ACA is bad.

That's about the extent of my opinion on the ACA.

6/29/2012 8:56:51 AM

Quote :

"I agree with your overall sentiment; however, the reason this isn't entirely a falsehood is that we have foolishly created (through an idiotic tax code) a system of employer-based healthcare. We need to change the tax code and divorce healthcare coverage from employment. That way, when you lose your job, you aren't boned when it comes time to get new health insurance. You just buy a health coverage policy and keep it in force all along, just like if you were self-employed."

I agree with all of that, of course. I really view the employer-sponsored insurance model as the root of the problem - individuals are shielded from the true cost of their health care. I'm sure it offends many peoples' sense of "fairness", but I should not be paying the same premiums as an old, fat, smoker. They should be paying more, because they represent more of a risk.

I do think there's a strong argument that some of the country's health problems (obesity, rise of heart disease) have to do with the fact that no one ever feels the total burden of their poor habits. If getting fat meant your premiums doubled or troubled, you think people might be a little more motivated to take care of themselves?

6/29/2012 10:39:44 AM

Yeah so whatever

I won

6/29/2012 10:48:17 AM

I wanna buy this shirt...just to wear it around and watch people's reactions.

6/29/2012 12:03:53 PM

Quote :

"I agree with all of that, of course. I really view the employer-sponsored insurance model as the root of the problem - individuals are shielded from the true cost of their health care."

haha. yup. I pay $2.93 biweekly for mine. $2500 deductible but the company puts that into an HSA account each year. Got a rude awakening when I had to pay for Cobra insurance (partially subsidized at the time) after getting laid off a couple years ago. Still cheaper than what it would've costed to get my own plan.

6/29/2012 12:07:33 PM

Quote :

"Secondly, I am glad insurance companies will no longer be able to deny coverage based on pre-existing conditions... ...However, I don't care for the insurance requirement or penalty; I truly believe the government shouldn't be forcing individuals to purchase services/products."

Ummm, those are a package deal, dude. If you have the former, you pretty much have to have the latter.

6/29/2012 5:54:00 PM

wat.

you don't have to have required insurance to allow people with pre-existing conditions to get insurance.

6/29/2012 5:57:25 PM

Really? How do you figure that's going to work?

7/1/2012 12:03:48 AM

Quote :

"If getting fat meant your premiums doubled or troubled, you think people might be a little more motivated to take care of themselves?"

Quote :

"DOUBLED OR TROUBLED"

7/1/2012 12:09:05 AM

I'm curious to see how the meager reforms in obamacare work. Economists are terrible at predicting anything, so experimentation is really the only way to find out if something works. The status quo is already pretty bad.

7/4/2012 12:59:52 PM

Quote :

"you don't have to have required insurance to allow people with pre-existing conditions to get insurance"

Yes you do, otherwise people would only get insured right when they need it, and either premiums would skyrocket to unaffordable levels or the health-insurance companies would go bankrupt and no new ones would fill their places; to keep this from happening, people need to be roped in even when they're healthy.

7/4/2012 1:44:30 PM