Aaaand all weekend, muscle pain and soreness. Hip joints were killing me. Back is killing me. It's muscular, though I have a history of random joint inflammation.

I read up and it's supposedly a side effect lamictal has. I'm losing faith rapidly with the idea that there may be a drug that works. I'm getting really tired of all of it. And I stay exhausted to boot.

4/22/2013 9:17:13 AM

Are you still taking Lamictal, zxappeal? have you experienced any changes in your mood? did the side effects subside as you titrated to your full dose?

I missed Kickstand's story about effexor withdrawal until now. are you still taking 25 mg a day? any plans to stop?

6/21/2013 10:08:44 AM

Quote :

"I'm losing faith rapidly with the idea that there may be a drug that works. I'm getting really tired of all of it. And I stay exhausted to boot."

6/21/2013 5:33:03 PM

try Trileptal

but recovery requires three components

medicating is just the tip of the iceberg
you have to couple that with counseling and support
and a sincere desire to change in spite of the great amount of pain and work that may be involved

6/22/2013 2:27:17 AM

maybe you have a gluten allergy

stop drinking beer and walk around in the daylight more

6/22/2013 2:28:28 AM

^ seriously... look into that.

6/22/2013 3:07:58 AM

The following brief story might be worth sharing...

I jumped around from sleep med to sleep med for the past two years. All of them either
i. didn't work, or
ii. caused unacceptable side-effects (woozy and unable to think during the day.)

I had taken Remeron for 12 years before I began this sleep-medicine carousel with totally bearable side effects, but then I stupidly went through a 1-month period in which I took twice as much Remeron as I'd taken before, and that seriously fucked up my brain and also scared me off Remeron for all time.

The point of this story is that, after trying like 10 different sleep medicines, I've finally found one that does the job and doesn't fuck up my brain badly at all. And that's Melatonin. Yep, over-the-counter Melatonin (and the minimum dose, too.) I sleep every night and I don't feel unbearably groggy in the morning.

So don't give up hope about finding the right medicine. I tried Sonata, Ambien, Gabbabenton, Amitryptilene, Trazadone and God knows what other meds I can't remember, and there were times when I was ready to abandon hope too. But (miraculously, almost) I now think I've found the miracle drug I'd been looking for all this time. Maybe you will too

6/22/2013 3:21:10 AM

Is that why you were awake at 3 am

And man, Trazodone used to knock me straight on my ass when I was trying it for sleep.

6/23/2013 12:30:25 AM

^
oh, yeah...touche.

I ate a ham sandwich, a huge plate of potato chips, three buffalo chicken tenders, and two bowls of strawberry ice cream immediately after taking my meds last night. And that sort of diminished their effects But melatonin works great as long as I don't stuff myself right before I take it (which I usually don't do.)

6/23/2013 12:37:11 AM

[Edited on June 24, 2013 at 6:24 PM. Reason : eh, i'll hold that thought]

6/24/2013 6:23:01 PM

Melatonin doesn't do shit for me to help sleeping.

I've been using Lunesta for 2-3 months now, and have so so results. Still takes me over an hour to fall asleep after ingesting the pill.

6/25/2013 12:47:53 PM

I'm curious how zxappeal is doing on the lamictal.

I'm going to have to find a new doc. Im' trying to get the current one to switch me to something that actually fucking works and he keeps telling me to wait. I've waited almost 6 months.

7/16/2013 12:18:35 PM

do it!! if you have a GP, maybe you could ask them for a new referral and something short-term in the meantime

7/16/2013 3:26:38 PM

^ Oh shit, I completely forgot to respond to your msg. And I don't really have a GP atm, but I'm talking to a few people that may give me a good lead. We'll see. I need to do something sooner rather than later.

7/16/2013 5:19:46 PM

And...I managed to slip into a cancellation and saw someone today. They apparently think I'm crazier than I thought and actually prescribed lamictal. When my face starts melting off from the rash and my muscles get sore as shit, I'll report back.

[Edited on July 18, 2013 at 6:39 PM. Reason : ]

7/18/2013 6:39:18 PM

are there any SSRI or anti-axiety type drugs that don't have really bad interactions with alcohol? I know a lot of them inhibit the ability of your liver to break down alcohol, which makes you get wasted quick and it destroys your body.

7/19/2013 10:35:58 AM

I can only say from personal experience that with the zoloft I never had a problem. I was a pretty heavy binge drinker for a few years, could out drink a lot of people, and my liver panels have always been normal.

7/19/2013 11:48:16 AM

there's plenty of reports of people having issues with zoloft and alcohol.

obviously, alcohol is a depressant and that's why it is to be avoided when other depressants, but it also lowers the seizure threshold. a lot of drugs increase seizure risk. but maybe something in the class of anti-seizure drugs could have a lower risk of side effects, if you just can't quit.

7/19/2013 3:21:01 PM

Don't you contradict me

But yea, I was probably lucky - Plus everyone in the family seems to have a steel liver.

[Edited on July 19, 2013 at 3:58 PM. Reason : ]

7/19/2013 3:49:57 PM

Regarding alcohol/booze, if you're having mental health issues, I think it's a good idea to try abstaining from alcohol for a while to see if things improve or even try going without the meds if booze is more important to you. I picked booze years ago, and it got way better for me off all the meds.

[Edited on July 19, 2013 at 5:54 PM. Reason : My previous post was waaaay too uppity.]

7/19/2013 5:42:47 PM

I only mentioned it because the drinking and resulting effects were the same regardless of if I was on the meds or not. At least from my recollection - I'd be the first to admit my memory is shit. I agree with you on the message, though.

Heh, and I suppose taking 20 shots of tequila and being cut off by three different waitresses because they were afraid I was going to drink myself to death would be an indicator that something is wrong. Even though I was walking around and functioning

These days I RARELY drink and even then, very little.

[Edited on July 19, 2013 at 5:50 PM. Reason : I really drank way too much, geez]

7/19/2013 5:46:44 PM

^I edited my post, but yeah, you're not supposed to be able to drink like that. And I think SSRIs, like Zoloft, have a lot to do with that. I know you're saying they didn't...but that kind of tolerance in a young person is pretty extreme. And I would definitely consider it a problematic drug interaction.

7/19/2013 5:56:53 PM

fair enough

[Edited on July 19, 2013 at 6:11 PM. Reason : Also, I'm not 21. just an fyi]

7/19/2013 6:04:24 PM

20 shots of tequila should kill you

calling bullshit

7/19/2013 6:14:39 PM

negative - I didn't say I didn't puke my brains out, spill doritos all over someones car, and almost fall down the stairs on the way up to my apartment later. Seriously, I had a wicked tolerance plus apparently the meds didn't hurt.

Best part was I didn't pay for it.

And it can't be that hard to believe - you've never heard of someone downing an entire 5th? That's pretty damn close when you have cheapo's that don't fill the shotglass

Anyway, thread is derailed enough.

[Edited on July 19, 2013 at 6:30 PM. Reason : ]

7/19/2013 6:22:51 PM

Quote :

"I've been using Lunesta for 2-3 months now, and have so so results. Still takes me over an hour to fall asleep after ingesting the pill."

When the doc gave me the lamictal she offered to give me some lunesta as well...so far it's hit or miss like you. After about an hour I get to sleep, but I wake up wide the fuck awake at around 3 every morning.

Also, day 4 of the lamictal - no side effects so far. Really hoping this will do the trick, though.

[Edited on July 22, 2013 at 3:18 PM. Reason : ]

7/22/2013 3:07:26 PM

^^^I've witnessed on several occasions friends of mine drinking over 20 shots (granted all weren't straight liquor). Highly doubtful that it would kill someone though.

^coincidental timing with that post. I saw my doctor last week and asked to switch sleeping meds, as the Lunesta still wasn't working well enough (in my opinion). So now I have a prescription for Trazodone, which apparently is also an anti-depressant. My doctor said it wouldn't interfere with the anti-depressant I'm already taking so that's good, lol. I can also say that after using it twice so far I have had some crazy fucking dreams

As to Zoloft when I was on that (for 3-4 months) I maintained my usual drinking habits and never noticed any ill effects (except I guess the drug not working over time? )

7/22/2013 4:01:50 PM

^ Nice. She also offered me trazodone, but I declined. I filled a script for it years ago and it definitely worked, but I was always groggy as hell the next day and had the crazy dreams, too.

I'm tempted to ask her for it now, but the way I feel, I doubt I can deal with the dreams and I already don't want to get up in the morning.

[Edited on July 22, 2013 at 4:23 PM. Reason : ]

7/22/2013 4:22:11 PM

Well shit, that's interesting...I've noticed that I'm a bit groggy in the morning too. Did you ever try ingesting the pill earlier at night to try and offset that? I might give that a shot tonight, though I'll be drinking tonight as well (and that'll be the first time mixing the two). So I'll probably have to give that a shot again tomorrow night as well, after not drinking

7/22/2013 4:35:18 PM

Eh, it bothered me so much I never gave it much of a chance. Supposedly the grogginess goes away. I'm not sure about the dreams, though.

7/22/2013 4:47:57 PM

Oh btw, I ran out of Lunesta samples and the pharmacy notified me at the end of the day that my insurance is full of douches and requires prior authorization

NO SLEEP TONIGHT

7/22/2013 11:39:03 PM

The whole waking up at 3 am thing used to bother me with Sonata.

First of all, it's worth noting that humans who live in the absence of artificial light would typically wake up for an hour in the middle of the night after having slept around 4 hours, and then go back to sleep for another three or four afterwards. in the 17th and 18th centuries people would go have snacks, read books and even go outside and talk to their neighbors in the middle of the night.

Obviously, artificial light deeply disturbs our sleep. and from my own observations, even normal people tend to sleep a bit less in the summer. Sleep hygiene should be practiced when taking sleeping pills, so you create a pre-bed ritual that sends your brain into auto shutdown, and obviously avoiding artificial light as much as possible in the couple hours before you want to go to sleep. I know that's pretty impossible for most of us, but you can at least try sitting in a mostly darkened room with a dimmed screen on your device or whatever. I guess ideally we should go back to sitting around with candles and listening to the radio

Sometimes I would just take a second Sonata when I woke up to get me back to sleep. Various versions of sleep hygiene vary, but I found that staying in bed, in the dark is the best way to go back to sleep quickly,whereas I think you're better off getting out of bed if you can't fall asleep in less than 15 minutes the first time.

My house doesn't have central AC and I was sweating in bed tonight and said fuck that til it cools down a bit. hope heat isn't adding to your sleep problems.



ooh, one more thing. Has anyone tried Silenor(doxepin)? It's a tricyclic antidepressant that was approved in 2010 to treat people that have difficulty staying asleep and wake up frequently. Apparently the sleep dose is much lower than the theraputic antidepressant dose, i dunno if that is do the same sort of paradox effect of small doses of remeron in making one drowsier than a much higher dose.


[Edited on July 23, 2013 at 1:22 AM. Reason : ]

7/23/2013 1:02:46 AM

^interesting info.

Day 3 of Trazodone wasn't so great. Took 1 pill around 11:15pm, roughly 30 minutes before I went to bed for the night. Come 12:45am I was still awake, barely feeling tired WTF mate? I considered taking a second pill when it was around 12:15am, but I decided against it b/c I thought I would be too sleepy this morning.

I thought I did everything right to help me sleep: worked out at the gym for an hour, spent an hour outside washing my car (semi strenuous work with this heat/humidity) and drank 3 strong pints before having dinner around 930

I'll try 2 pills tonight.

Maybe I should make a separate thread for sleep disorders?

[Edited on July 23, 2013 at 9:10 AM. Reason : meh]

7/23/2013 9:09:21 AM

oh god, don't take what i'm going to say the wrong way, but virtually everything you've said is contraindicated in good sleep hygiene practice.

eating late can keep you up for metabolic reasons, and going to bed before your stomach empties can make falling asleep more difficult.(that said, i know a lot of people can't fall asleep without a snack before bed. whatever)

alcohol can actually make falling and staying asleep more difficult, contrary to common knowledge, and even what we perceive. they've done tons of sleep studies on that shit.

when are you working out? some people are ready to sleep right after working out, but from what i've read, most experts recommend finishing your workout at least 6 hours before your chosen bedtime. Personally, if I overexert myself at exercise or work, i can definitely get to a point where i'm literally too tired to fall asleep. one of the worst feelings in the world, outside of catastrophe.

sometimes i can't even sleep til the next night or even the morning after that, because of weird crazy exercise jazz stuff. Maybe it's more of a hypomania kind of thing.


nothing gets me ready to sleep on time more than having a boring ass evening at home, following a routine (aka watching the same show i always watch) and not doing anything too interesting or stimulating, like starting a new project or reading addictive fiction too late at night (how many times did I say just one more page at 10:30 and suddenly it's 6 am? or "just starting" something at 8 and finishing it up around 4... haha check the timestamp). Similarly, having fun night out might keep your mind working long past the optimal window for falling asleep on trazodone. Personally, it's hopeless for me to even try to sleep until i've been home a good couple of hours, unless i'm really smashed.


I fucking hated trazodone, because i was always in a fog all day after taking it.

now i'm really fuckign with my sleep and i'll have to start all over with all of this crap tomorrow, but I had a rush contract come in, and I made a grand tonight by working til 4 and thought i'd commemorate by seeing who else was insomniac


jaZon, you got the measles yet?

i'm not sure i've mentioned it in this thread yet, but I've had the strangest interaction with so many of these lame ass drugs, which is numbness and tingling of my hands and face. apparently it's fairly common for a couple of drugs, but pretty unusual for some others. anyone else ever experienced weird side effects?

7/24/2013 4:14:14 AM

I work shift work and restoril has worked wonders for me. Seriously no grogginess or off feelings when you wake up.it's awesome

7/24/2013 5:49:50 AM

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/scientists-discover-the-molecule-responsible-for-causing-feelings-of-depression-8724471.html

this looks like some pretty interesting findings. hope they will get to cooking up a new class of drugs right away

7/24/2013 6:13:28 AM

Quote :

"oh god, don't take what i'm going to say the wrong way, but virtually everything you've said is contraindicated in good sleep hygiene practice. eating late can keep you up for metabolic reasons, and going to bed before your stomach empties can make falling asleep more difficult.(that said, i know a lot of people can't fall asleep without a snack before bed. whatever) alcohol can actually make falling and staying asleep more difficult, contrary to common knowledge, and even what we perceive. they've done tons of sleep studies on that shit. when are you working out? some people are ready to sleep right after working out, but from what i've read, most experts recommend finishing your workout at least 6 hours before your chosen bedtime. Personally, if I overexert myself at exercise or work, i can definitely get to a point where i'm literally too tired to fall asleep. one of the worst feelings in the world, outside of catastrophe. "

No I appreciate the constructive criticism.

I didn't think eating late was a big problem, but I'll try to work on that. The problem there for me is that my schedule (though I'll admit some of this is voluntary) usually has me eating late. One scenario is going to the gym for an hour after work. Then getting home, taking the dog out and then showering. Then I'll start preparing dinner which usually takes 30-45 min give or take. You add all that up and it's around 830pm when I'm eating. I also hate eating before 7pm because come 10-1030pm I'll be noticeably hungry and I hate going to bed with a feeling of hunger.

I know that people aren't supposed to sleep well when drunk. However in Monday night's case I had 3 strong pints between 7-9. Does that count towards fucking up my sleep (given timing)? I had no sort of buzz past 10pm.

Monday I worked out at 11am - 12pm so that definitely had no bearing on it. If I'm doing a cardio work out I do those after work, like 5-6 usually.

Other than not eating after 9pm I dunno what to think of the rest of your comments, I guess?

[Edited on July 24, 2013 at 11:09 AM. Reason : k]

7/24/2013 11:07:51 AM

^^^^ Not breaking out, yet. Not feeling any better, either

7/24/2013 3:39:06 PM

Shit, I missed the bit about the numbness.

If I sleep on my back and like have my hands on my stomach my hands will definitely go numb. It's always nice to wake up in a wicked cold sweat with numb hands and trying to change clothes.

I'm really hoping that's the effexor and will be out of my damn system soon.

[Edited on July 24, 2013 at 4:57 PM. Reason : ]

7/24/2013 4:57:14 PM

Quote :

"If I sleep on my back and like have my hands on my stomach my hands will definitely go numb. "

Sleeping with your elbows bent can restrict your nerves and cause numbness. Happens to me too and I'm not on anything.

7/24/2013 5:03:39 PM

Well that's a relief

[Edited on July 24, 2013 at 5:07 PM. Reason : But still sucks]

7/24/2013 5:07:04 PM

hmm, according to this, that might be the worst time to fall asleep, after the alcohol has been metabolized. also claims that one beer can be helpful, while two and up start contributing to waking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_use_and_sleep

as far as the food thing goes, i think the timing is something we get habituated to, and as long as everything is on schedule, it's probably secondary to fat content and portion size in disrupting our sleep.


did you actually take 2 last night? curious what the results were. are you drowsy or lightheaded today?




jazon, i wouldn't expect any changes before you've titrated up to the full dose and been on that for at least a couple weeks (up to six to eight weeks). If you do experience a significant mood change before that, you should contact your doctor. (ie maybe you shoudn't go up to the full dose or something,idk)

7/24/2013 6:41:20 PM

Quote :

"couple weeks"

lamest shit ever - where's my instant wonder drug

someone hook me up w/ some special k

7/24/2013 9:40:34 PM

^^two nights ago was weird for me & I didn't end up going to bed till 1am. Slept okay but just not enough rest (took no pill). Now tonight I ate dinner @ 8 and took 2 pills at 10...and oh look at that, I'm posting from my bed at 12:25am bc I can't fall asleep (been trying since 1115). I had 2 beers earlier, before 9.

7/25/2013 12:27:11 AM

no posting from bed!! you gotta get up if you can't fall asleep in 15 mins.

what time are you getting up in the morning?

try to follow a schedule next week!

7/25/2013 7:57:21 AM

no posting from bed? WTF else am I supposed to do an hour after trying to go to sleep!? If I got up out of bed everytime I couldn't fall asleep within 15 minutes I would (almost) literally never sleep. On average it takes me 30-45 minutes to fall asleep.

15 minutes? LOL WUT?

[Edited on July 25, 2013 at 9:13 AM. Reason : i get up at 6:40am. on Weekdays I average going to bed around 11:30pm, weekends more like 1am]

7/25/2013 9:13:17 AM

^
no screens 30 min to an hour before bed. read a book!

7/25/2013 9:25:49 AM

I usually turn off all the lights and watch some kinda space crap or other dimly lit show in the dark on the couch until i am ready to fall asleep and drag myself to my bed when it<s over or i'm falling asleep, whatever comes first. The light from watching videos is bad enough, but posting and actively clicking around on the net and stuff definitely keeps you stimulated. It's actually a fairly narrow band of blue light that disrupts the circadian cycle. wish they would come out with a range of home lighting and have all of our devices be put into a mode where the screen doesn't emit blue light. They do make blue blocking goggles. anyway, do what you can to hang out in a room with incandescent "warm" lighting for at least an hour before before you turn out the lights.


I definitely understand the need to wind down and think about something stupid for a while before sleeping. Have you tried listening to music or talk radio in bed, or audio books? it's another place where repetition starts training you brain to induce sleep when it receives that signal. I have three or four albums that will probably make me fall asleep forever because I would always play them to fall asleep when i was taking sleeping pills. you can start listening in another room and then take it to bed with you- hopefully falling asleep before it's over, so don't pick anything too short. some people like to listen to talk radio, but i think it has to be kind of fluffy and boring, otherwise you might find it too engaging. The news might make a poor choice.

7/25/2013 9:33:38 AM

I appreciate this advice. However I already do these things.

Posting from bed is something I rarely, rarely do. Last night I just grabbed my phone and fiddled around for literally just 5-10 minutes. Before I went to bed last night I watched TV for around 45 minutes in a dimly lit room. Most week nights (but not all) I usually read for 20-40 minutes in my room, with just enough light to make the pages legible. While doing this I play classical music in the background.

I make myself go to bed by 1130 because I know I need to get 6-8 hours of sleep. I don't go to sleep by 1130 because I'm tired. I'm rarely actually tired that early at night. I'm usually tired around 4-5 pm and around 8-9 pm. And in the morning (durr).

[Edited on July 25, 2013 at 10:57 AM. Reason : meh]

7/25/2013 10:48:00 AM

have you tried meditation?

http://health.usnews.com/health-news/family-health/sleep/articles/2009/06/09/meditation-may-help-put-primary-insomnia-to-bed

7/25/2013 11:07:44 AM