page deux

8/14/2012 11:21:16 AM

Also, warning shots into the air are dangerous as well. Terminal velocity of a bullet on its way back to earth is enough to injure, and that's assuming the shot went straight up rather than in an arc (not likely). Not sure if they can kill but they can damn well hurt someone who is in no way involved.

8/14/2012 11:29:25 AM

Mythbusters says they are very unlikely to kill. However if they are just high trajectory shots then they obviously can.

The presensce of the gun should be warning enough, you don't actually need to fire it.

8/14/2012 11:45:57 AM

^In many cases. Not so much while you're being beaten, as if you draw without firing immediately, it's going to be taken from you with a quickness.

8/14/2012 1:07:22 PM

Quote :

"IBT racism"

has the race of any of the people involved even been mentioned?

8/14/2012 1:20:54 PM

Quote :

"Keep your baby off the street. She gonna get hit one of these days. "

8/14/2012 1:29:54 PM

Quote :

"has the race of any of the people involved even been mentioned? "

that's why I said "IBT racism". durrrrr

8/14/2012 1:36:04 PM

Let the racism begin

8/14/2012 1:45:46 PM

i thought Flesh-N-Bone was in jail

8/14/2012 1:46:35 PM

Quote :

"not knowing the extent of my kid's injuries, the first thing I'm going to do is tend to my child. "

This is exactly what I thought as I read the story. Honestly what good does it do to go confront the guy unless he is trying to do a hit and run or something like that. Obviously someone (father, cousin) saw what caused this (i.e. girl in the street) and should have recognized that it was an accident.

8/14/2012 3:42:28 PM

the shooter is a cop and should be held to a higher standard. it's been mentioned that as law enforcement he's able to carry where others can't ,so why give him that privilege if hes going to shoot people like anyone else would? if you're going to handle violent situations with violence why not get rid of police and give everyone a gun?

as for the father how do you leave your child unsupervised and when she gets hurt your first thought is murder kill homocide and not my daughter? some lessons are learned the hard(est) way

8/14/2012 4:14:53 PM

What's the standard that he should be held to that would change the outcome of this situation?

I mean the fact that cops can carry guns where other people can't is a different argument entirely, but he was on a public road where anyone can carry guns so I don't see what the point is.

[Edited on August 14, 2012 at 4:23 PM. Reason : ]

8/14/2012 4:22:21 PM

The cop was justified.

However, we've all got to keep it real here. His only injuries from the beating that supposedly made him afraid for his
life were bruises.

To be clear, the dad sucks. But the cop sucks, too. And, again while he was justified, you know he's got to feel awful.
He was most likely speeding on his bike, then he screwed up, hurt a little girl, and killed her father...and the only
evidence of the brutality he endured is bruises.

(I'm unclear why many of you are defending his actions as if shooting the belligerent father was the smartest, most
sensible thing he could do. That is not obvious to me.)

[Edited on August 14, 2012 at 4:32 PM. Reason : ]

8/14/2012 4:30:52 PM

^^^that was one of the dumbest posts I've ever read.

^Ah yes, we should be required to do a medical assessment before using deadly force to defend oneself. And we shouldn't include relevant information such as, what might the attacker do next, while one is being beaten.


[Edited on August 14, 2012 at 4:33 PM. Reason : .]

8/14/2012 4:31:23 PM

Quote :

"the shooter is a cop and should be held to a higher standard. it's been mentioned that as law enforcement he's able to carry where others can't ,so why give him that privilege if hes going to shoot people like anyone else would? if you're going to handle violent situations with violence why not get rid of police and give everyone a gun? "

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought.

8/14/2012 4:36:15 PM

^^I've already agreed that he was justified. But I don't understand why you're being so emphatic about all this.

I personally reserve the right to question the decisions made by others, but you guys want to automatically defend these
choices as the only things that could be done (non-choices really), and the rest of us are supposed to accept the notion that the
guy with bruises was definitely going to end up dead or with brain damage even though that is not obvious.

You're not a psychic.

[Edited on August 14, 2012 at 4:40 PM. Reason : ]

8/14/2012 4:38:35 PM

Yes, it's possible that a number of things could have happened. We'll never know. But it's a pointless exercise in many of these cases to dissect and what if every action. No one knows to what extent the attacker would have gone and there is no way to guess or convince others to not use the same actions in the future.

You can look back now and analyze all you want. You can guess what the attacker may have done/what injuries may have been sustained; you can read about what the attacker did/what injuries were sustained, but those don't get you anywhere. "All he had were bruises" ok, what's your point? Should he wait until he was unconscious? Should he be psychic and "see" what the attacker was going to do.

You come from the point of view of "he only had bruises, he didn't need to shoot". Well, how about, "all he had were bruises because he shot". Things could have gotten much worse; things could have stopped; we don't know and never will and that's irrelevant. As soon as this guy violently attacks then he is placing other lives and risk and therefore his own.

[Edited on August 14, 2012 at 4:43 PM. Reason : .]

8/14/2012 4:40:32 PM

Quote :

"You're not a psychic."

Quote :

"He was most likely speeding on his bike, then he screwed up, hurt a little girl, and killed her father...and the only evidence of the brutality he endured is bruises."

Nor are you.

8/14/2012 4:43:40 PM

Quote :

"The story is one sided."

So is your thread title.

8/14/2012 4:44:56 PM

omfg, double post, suspend!

8/14/2012 4:47:46 PM

^^^^I'm thinking about it from my perspective.

If I'm not accustomed to getting hit because I'm a cop, and I end up in the hospital with bruises after I shoot a girl's father,
I am most likely not going to be sure that I made the right choice.

Yes, the father was a douche. And, I think it's written in law in some places that if you kick someone while
they are on the ground, it is completely okay to assume that you intend to kill the person you are attacking.

But you can't convince me that the cop definitely made the right choice, and I don't get to question it.

^^^The only assumption I made is the speed factor, which is why I prefaced it with "most likely."

You suck, by the way.

[Edited on August 14, 2012 at 4:50 PM. Reason : ]

8/14/2012 4:48:50 PM

OFF WITH HIS HEAD!!!!!!

8/14/2012 4:48:58 PM

^^you can question all you want; doesn't make it valid or relevant.

You can't look at these situations in such a narrow scope. Saying that he got away with only bruises means he may not have made the right choice in using lethal force is a fallacy. It's a position based on hindsight and isn't relevant to the situation. Again, you have to look at all sides of the issues. You're stuck on the idea that because he only had bruises, then maybe he shouldn't have shot. Well, if he didn't shoot maybe he'd be dead. He was within his rights and took the proper course of action.

8/14/2012 4:51:45 PM

Quote :

"not knowing the extent of my kid's injuries, the first thing I'm going to do is tend to my child. "

Would have kept one guy out of the morgue, and a little girl out of therapy.

Quote :

" I personally reserve the right to question the decisions made by others, but you guys want to automatically defend these choices as the only thing that could be done, and the rest of us are supposed to accept the notion that the guy with bruises was definitely going to end up dead or with brain damage even though that is not obvious."

I've read some dumb shit on this board before, but holy shit. I guess I need to reserve the right to question the decisions you made regarding your posts...as in your supposition that the cop was speeding, that only having bruises didn't qualify as a need to pull a gun to defend oneself. Have you ever had a gun pointed at you? Because its at that point that you consider fight or flight...if you think you have time to debate the finer points of law in that situation, then you are sorely naive. What your reading is not a rush to defend a cop, but allowances for the fact that we don't live in hindsight.

[Edited on August 14, 2012 at 4:59 PM. Reason : ]

8/14/2012 4:56:06 PM

^.

And the guy even identified himself as a cop. I don't know how many people haven't figured out that cops carry guns. That should have been the attacker's first clue to step down. He didn't. So now, with information that strongly suggests his victim may be armed, the guy still attacks.

8/14/2012 4:57:45 PM

Quote :

" Again, you have to look at all sides of the issues. "

I'd like to remind you that you haven't heard the dead guy's side of the story.

You think A COP will incriminate himself? He knows the law and he knows what stories to tell to get him off the hook for murder.


[Edited on August 14, 2012 at 4:59 PM. Reason : .]

8/14/2012 4:58:00 PM

Considering this was in a public space with witnesses, none of which have contradicted the reported story, I think my posts are valid.

I mean, if there's evidence to suggest that something else happened, then by all means, post the reports.


[Edited on August 14, 2012 at 5:00 PM. Reason : /]

8/14/2012 4:59:12 PM

It's not like there were no witnesses, as in the Martin/Zimmerman situatuion in florida. The dad doesn't need to be alive present his side for us to get an an account from both the other side and likely from an uninvolved observer.

[Edited on August 14, 2012 at 5:02 PM. Reason : ]

8/14/2012 5:01:47 PM

Quote :

"wdprice3: And the guy even identified himself as a cop."

Exactly.

Did the cop shoot the dad because he was afraid for his life, or did he shoot the dad because he's a cop and nobody gets to hit him!!!


Sorry you all don't agree that there's material here worth discussing. From here on out, I'll be sure to keep my mouth shut so
I don't have to read multiple people repeating the same canned point about hindsight. But while we're at it here, maybe we
can get a fourth person to lecture me from the handbook of firearms/self-defense.

8/14/2012 5:21:44 PM

lol... let me just go unconscious and they will probably stop beating me.

8/14/2012 5:24:27 PM

Let me say this against for the fourth time.

Quote :

" I'd like to remind you that you haven't heard the dead guy's side of the story. "

You haven't heard any witnesses' testimony either.

you have only heard the COP'S side of the story.

8/14/2012 5:31:42 PM

there was obviously a motorcycle wreck, and the girl was obviously hit, what the hell else do you think happened?

8/14/2012 6:00:08 PM

I can't believe I read this whole thread so far. I feel dumber.

And also, this isn't a scuffle between a cop and a father. This was 2 men beating a police officer on the ground after he tried to help the little girl.

Quote :

"....John Passley, who had run into the street to help her. When the officer tried to help the girl, her father, Christopher Middleton, 26, came out of a nearby restaurant and approached the officer angrily, shouting, according to authorities. The officer told Middleton he was a police officer, but Middleton struck the officer in the face, knocked him to the ground and continued to hit him, according to Shapiro. Passley joined in and kicked the officer, Shapiro said. The officer then drew his gun and shot Middleton once."

[Edited on August 14, 2012 at 6:15 PM. Reason : ]

8/14/2012 6:11:05 PM

I never realized there were so many idiots on tdub

Save for Bridget, she's always saying idiotic shit

8/14/2012 6:25:23 PM

I'm gonna double post just to tell Bridget she needs to shut the fuck up she has abused the right to free speech enough for one page

8/14/2012 6:28:16 PM

mofo should be charged with murder. He started shit by wrecking into homeskillet's daughter.

8/14/2012 6:29:53 PM

You don't wanna see my flesh-flesh-flesh...

8/14/2012 6:31:26 PM

AHA, I don't think I'm being that unreasonable.

There is nothing wrong with questioning what people, especially police officers, do with their firearms. And I don't want to participate in a trigger-happy society where we can all go about shooting each other and claiming self-defense. And then if anybody has the gall to question the choices of a shooter, they get harangued with the same bits about shooting to kill and hindsight.

We've had this argument a thousand times over on TWW, and I don't think I'm ever going to start getting with the program you guys have repeatedly laid out for me.

8/14/2012 7:02:03 PM

In the video in the link at time 1:34:

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/crime/police-officer-accidentally-crashes-motorcycle-child-attacked-her-father-christopher?utm_source=OV+Newsletter+List+2&utm_campaign=960dcc02f6-OV_Daily_Newsletter8_14_2012&utm_medium=email%2F&fb_comment_id=fbc_10151086274332380_23285683_10151086690092380#f29768decdc294


The witnesses say the officer didn't identify himself as a police officer until after he shot him.
You can see 4 or 5 people shaking their head in agreement.

Interesting turn of events when you hear it from someone else's side.


[Edited on August 14, 2012 at 7:08 PM. Reason : .]

8/14/2012 7:06:42 PM

^^What do you think would have been reasonable? The man was trying to aid the daughter, IDENTIFIED himself as an LEO, was attacked by the father who obviously didn't care, and then was attacked by the other man. Do you think someone that decides beating a cop is a good idea is going to lay off after a few hits? Assault on a LEO is a pretty serious offense and if he's willing to go that far along with a buddy, where do you assume they'll stop? This wasn't a fist fight. It was two grown men beating another one and kicking him. He was lucky to only escape with bruises. That's not a little scuffle, it's trying to maim or kill someone.

^ I saw one guy shaking his head who said "no badge." WTF difference does that make? Where's the other 4-5 people shaking their head in agreement? Beyond that, if he DIDN'T identify himself as a cop, so what? Any citizen would have been well within their rights to kill 2 fucking dumbasses that are beating the shit out of them.

[Edited on August 14, 2012 at 7:19 PM. Reason : .]

8/14/2012 7:14:35 PM

I mean, the video has playback. watch it again and Don't ask dumbass questions.

8/14/2012 7:20:24 PM

Who cares if he identified himself before or after he shot him. There is no law that says you have to say/do anything before using deadly force.

Here in NC, while you can carry in more places, if you shoot somebody it falls under the same set of rules that citizens are held to. The only exception I could see is if you were off duty in your jurisdiction and shot somebody because they you can articulate that you had the authority to take police action.

Also, center mass would be your stomach - please shoot people above that.

8/14/2012 7:24:43 PM

Obviously I care. Announcing he's an officer means he's likely to have a concealed gun and he might have acted differently.

Quote :

" a 43-year-old, eight-year veteran of the force"

When the official story is a lie:
The officer told Middleton he was a police officer, but Middleton struck the officer in the face, knocked him to the ground and continued to hit him, according to Shapiro.


i question the ENTIRE story.

SINCE WHEN IN THIS COUNTRY HAS IT BEEN OKAY TO LIE and brushed off so damn easily?

[Edited on August 14, 2012 at 7:27 PM. Reason : .]

8/14/2012 7:27:06 PM

The father should have had a close eye on his 4 year old daughter so that she couldn't wander off into the street. She's lucky it was a motorcycle that hit her, and not a car.

[Edited on August 14, 2012 at 7:29 PM. Reason : .]

8/14/2012 7:27:59 PM

Quote :

"What does being a cop or not matter? "

A dead man is the difference.

Quote :

"The father should have had a close eye on his 4 year old daughter so that she couldn't wander off into the street. She's lucky it was a motorcycle that hit her, and not a car"

How ignorant of you.

[Edited on August 14, 2012 at 7:31 PM. Reason : .]

8/14/2012 7:29:09 PM

^ So you think this is a crime of citizen vs law enforcement? I suppose we should blame Dr. Dre's Fuck The Police.

8/14/2012 7:30:34 PM

No, just stop talking.

8/14/2012 7:31:45 PM

Your defense is pretty weak here Genius.

8/14/2012 7:34:48 PM

Paging George Zimmerman

8/14/2012 7:45:42 PM

1. It's N.W.A., not Dr. Dre. (I am aware that Dr. Dre was a member of N.W.A.)

2. It's "Fuck tha Police."

8/14/2012 8:24:33 PM