Quote :

"The debate isn't about whether we should do these things, whether it's health care, education, or whatever. Of course we should have those services. The real debate here, as you admit, is how we should go about providing these services. We are not the government; the government is not synonymous with "society". That's the first thing you have to understand. Once you've accepted that the government does not represent us, we can talk about ways to provide education and health care without pointing guns at people."

It's impossible to have any debate with you when that's your starting point.

8/21/2012 10:31:38 PM

Quote :

"I don't know about y'all. But if I grew up in bumfuck wherever and struggled for things that people in other parts of the same country I live in completely took for granted, I would be pretty pissed and extremely resentful that those people had so much and I had so little. Sure, I could eventually educate myself to the point where I might one day have all those things, but more than likely I would already be so far behind that it would be impossible to catch up. I would hate my parents a lot too, but it's extremely possible that they were a victim of their circumstances as well. Why shouldn't everyone have access to utilities and education (unless they've made it clear that they don't want those things, in which case fuck em)? America is only as strong as it's weakest link. The constitution literally says one of the reasons were have come together as a nation is to promote the general welfare. We shouldn't be having a debate about whether or not were should do these things. Were should be having a debate about the best way to go about doing so. But conservatives are so ideologically stubborn and backwards that I honestly can't even tell if they want any sort of federal government at all. About whether they even want the states of America to be united?"

Oh look, another soapbox classic. A thread where disco_stu hates religion and IMStoned420 again indicates that his every political stance is dictated by simple jealousy.

How original.

8/21/2012 11:16:45 PM

^^It's a debate you're not used to having, that's all. You've spent countless hours arguing from a premise that says unprovoked violence can be solved using unprovoked violence, just as I once did. That's simply a false premise. If the solution to the problem is more of the problem, you don't have a solution, you just have a slightly different problem.

This is why the news has political analysts, economists, and financial experts but no philosophers. Philosophy allows you to strip out all the bullshit, leaving only the hard, uncomfortable truth behind. Unfortunately, reality is a tough pill to swallow for most.

[Edited on August 21, 2012 at 11:22 PM. Reason : ]

8/21/2012 11:22:14 PM

All this coming from the guy who disregards the Constitution when it doesn't jive with his pre-conceived notions and believes we should return to a time before the Social Contract was widely accepted as a profound philosophical creation. Next thing you know, he'll be debating that the fucking Magna Carta was a morally objectionable document that didn't adequately protect individuals.

You are literally debating things that people 1000x smarter than any of us accepted as reality over a hundred years ago. Please join us in the 21st century.

8/21/2012 11:28:55 PM

disco_stu is such a know-it-all, cynical piece of shit.

anytime i see one of his posts, i'm thankful i don't know him IRL.

I feel sorry for his children.

8/22/2012 12:13:00 AM

If you want a good laugh someone should dig up that circumcision thread he went nuts in.

That's the moment I relegated him to the crazy pile.

8/22/2012 6:33:33 AM

Quote :

"A thread where disco_stu hates religion "

It's a thread about totaling up philanthropy in America. I think addressing the misappropriation of tithing to "philanthropy" is a salient point. You're welcome to argue otherwise.

^,^^, I'm just excited you two think about me so much.

[Edited on August 22, 2012 at 8:48 AM. Reason : .]

8/22/2012 8:48:21 AM

oh look, another thread where willy (and mr.green) resort to generalized personal attacks.

8/22/2012 9:19:49 AM

^i learned from the best

ya hack

8/22/2012 10:31:09 AM

Quote :

"All this coming from the guy who disregards the Constitution when it doesn't jive with his pre-conceived notions and believes we should return to a time before the Social Contract was widely accepted as a profound philosophical creation. Next thing you know, he'll be debating that the fucking Magna Carta was a morally objectionable document that didn't adequately protect individuals. You are literally debating things that people 1000x smarter than any of us accepted as reality over a hundred years ago. Please join us in the 21st century."

This is all nonsense.

8/22/2012 10:50:34 AM

Oh really?

Quote :

"I don't support the Constitution at all. I think it would have been great if it actually prevented the U.S. from becoming what it is. The goal of the founders was to create the smallest, most restricted government in history. That government is now the largest and most dangerous state that has ever existed. We're not going to to "get back" to the Constitution. If it it was useful, we wouldn't be where we are today."

http://www.brentroad.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=630073&page=1#15495996

Quote :

"In a civilization where the state is assumed to be good and necessary, equal opportunity is a topic that has to be discussed. According to The Social Contract, which all of us (dead, living, and unborn) are apparently bound by, those acting on behalf of the government are allowed to commit murder, theft, and fraud. These violations will affect some groups more than others, just as taking a shotgun blast from 50 yards may impair the victim's left arm more than their right. While equal opportunity proponents would say we need a better shotgun that injures all organs equally, I would argue that we need to using shotguns against people."

http://www.brentroad.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=630073&page=1#15495213

8/22/2012 12:27:23 PM

That doesn't change anything. I'm well aware of what I posted. What you posted is nonsense. You don't put forth an argument.

The Constitution doesn't jibe with my preconceived notions? What? The Constitution is a document written by some well off white guys hundreds of years ago. As recently as a year ago I probably could have been described as a constitutionalist. If I previously assumed that the Constitution was a valid, and I've more recently begun to question that, I'm not really holding onto my preconceived notions. Those notions have already been thrown out.

Quote :

"believes we should return to a time before the Social Contract was widely accepted as a profound philosophical creation"

That's a time that never existed. The majority of people cannot accurately describe social contract theory. People can't possibly have agreed to a contract that aren't even aware of.

Quote :

"Next thing you know, he'll be debating that the fucking Magna Carta was a morally objectionable document that didn't adequately protect individuals."

It didn't adequately protect individuals. There's really no debate to have.

I have to admit, though, that's it a little funny when people who are allegedly "progressive" and "forward thinking" become the ones defending the status quo and adhering to tradition.

8/22/2012 1:01:35 PM

Quote :

"Tennessee has probably had hundreds of billions (todays dollars) funnelled to it through the TVA, literally one of the only examples of a federally owned utility in the US. "

have you never heard of RUS? if it weren't for the dirt-cheap federal loans they hand out to cooperatives, most of NC and every other rural area wouldn't be much different. The Army Corps of Engineers has built hydroelectric dams and flood control / navigational devices all across the country that operate much like the TVA.

8/22/2012 10:27:22 PM