Quote :

"^ you are on crack. He is raping our country."

how do you figure?

9/6/2012 10:59:22 PM

aea i agree with you completely

and i realize that Ron Paul isn't the only "third"/non R or D candidate, but he's the most recognizable this year which is why i used him as an example

9/6/2012 11:01:06 PM

im sorry but if the democrats were in power when 9/11 happened, what do you think would have happened?

and by the way.....how much of the money that we spend on the wars is actually pay that goes into peoples pockets.

9/6/2012 11:03:59 PM

The Electoral College will get it right.

9/6/2012 11:05:06 PM

Ralph Nader

http://www.helium.com/items/2333445-chevrolet-corvair-ralph-naders-1965-assessment

9/6/2012 11:05:58 PM

It is pretty pointless to vote in the system we have unless you live in a swing state but then considering no state has ever come down to one vote, it is still pretty pointless. And save the bullshit about how if everyone thought that way, blah blah, blah. My opinion won't influence anyone to change if they were going to vote or not. Keep telling yourself your vote matters or that you are doing your public duty, it is all a bunch of bullshit.

#voteordie

9/6/2012 11:08:19 PM

Gary fuckin' Johnson

Because fuck you, that's why

9/6/2012 11:28:16 PM

Quote :

"It is pretty pointless to vote in the system we have unless you live in a swing state but then considering no state has ever come down to one vote, it is still pretty pointless. And save the bullshit about how if everyone thought that way, blah blah, blah. My opinion won't influence anyone to change if they were going to vote or not. Keep telling yourself your vote matters or that you are doing your public duty, it is all a bunch of bullshit. "

Actually, Ron Paul's delegates won by 1 vote in Maine's State Convention. It's on film. It's on youtube.

That was before the Republican Dictators stripped half Maines delegates and replaced them with Romney delegates illegally.

But, alas, nobody cares about that.

9/7/2012 1:16:05 AM

Jill Stein because I'm a few generations ahead of my time.

9/7/2012 1:46:04 AM

Quote :

"Ron Paul isn't the only "third"/non R or D candidate"

He's not running for any office now; he stuck through the Presidential race until the convention, but he's retiring now, rather than, say, continuing to run for re-election to the House, or running for President as an independent...
Also, apropos of this thread, Nader isn't running this year either.

This article is relevant to your interests: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2012#Third_parties_and_independent_candidates
In particular, in Ohio we can vote in the Presidential election for...
(D) Barack Hussein Obama II & Joseph Robinette Biden Jr.
(R) Willard Mitt Romney & Paul Davis Ryan
(L) Gary Earl Johnson & James P. Gray
(G) Jill Stein & Cheri Honkala
(C) Virgil Hamlin Goode Jr. & James N. Clymer
(S) Stewart Alexis Alexander & Alejandro Mendoza
(I) Richard Duncan & Ricky Johnson

Meanwhile you people only get Obama, Romney, Johnson, and (as a write-in option) Goode; that's right, no Jill Stein for you...well it looks like they're still petitioning, so she may get on after all
(Notably, Indiana, the state I first voted in, has many write-in options, with the same three tickets "on-ballot" as in your state.)

9/7/2012 2:39:53 AM

AEA, you are right. There are many other 3rd party candidates out there and I used to think much the same as you. I agree the political discourse is a huge cluster intercourse. Both side lie and say what people want to hear. That is why actions matter and Obama's actions and background point the way he will take America. The first 4 years happened much the way he planned and served set the foundation for what he really wants to do in the 2nd four. He hinted at it and been caught on hot mike saying to Russian President Medvedev, “This is my last election. After my election, I have more flexibility.”
Flexibility to do what?
Why do all the Obama Care key monetary mechanisms kick in after the election?
Why hasn't he done anything to reduce the deficit
Why did he allow us to lose our AAA rating
Why does he support traditional US enemies and alienate traditional Allies?
Why does he continue to concentrate on wedge issues instead of the economy, jobs and deficit reduction?
I don't trust Obama, I think that he IS trying to knock the US down a few rungs in order boost 3rd world countries. Just follow the money.

So, for me, in this election, my goal is to just get rid of Obama and voting for a 3rd party dood aint gonna do it. So my vote will be for Romney. Even though I don't agree with all of his stances he is very well equipped to effectively run the country and turn things around.

9/7/2012 12:22:26 PM

probably Obama..

I'd rather lose a few $ out of my paycheck than have people lose their rights (women, gays)

Of course it'd be awesome if somebody could shrink government and be morally liberal at the same time.

9/7/2012 12:57:00 PM

^^ sounds like someone watched Obama 2016, if you haven't you should it will reinforce you paranoid beliefs.

[Edited on September 7, 2012 at 1:03 PM. Reason : .]

9/7/2012 1:02:46 PM

@Eaton - I don't want to get into a debate about most of that (not saying I disagree, because I do agree with a lot of what you said), but I have to point out that Obama isn't the only problem. Namely, this part:

Quote :

"Why did he allow us to lose our AAA rating"

That I blame almost entirely on congress. Every friggin elected official has boxed themselves into their campaign promises to "never do ____", which ensures that nothing gets done. Our AAA rating is lost because S&P, along with the rest of the world, can see that nobody in our government will cooperate to actually fix the problems we face.

I agree - I don't like much of what Obama has done. But I do not trust Romney to be any better. No democrat or republican can fix the massive issue that is our economy, no matter what BS they feed us.

[Edited on September 7, 2012 at 1:09 PM. Reason : r =/= t]

9/7/2012 1:08:09 PM

Obama/Biden

I'm very liberal so to save you time I'll just leave that as why and I'll give you my two big points and it's all I will say on the matter.

A big fear of mine with is Romney/Ryan winning, amongst other things, is the Republicans having all of the control over 2 of the 3 branches of government, with their current control over the House (and possibly future Senate) it's scary to me

Like I said, I'm liberal, but I think this country works best for everyone if all the control wasn't in favor of just one group. I yearn, YEARN, for the days when the two parties would try to compromise. I want to force their hand, so to speak, and make them.

Also another point for voting for Obama is the fact that there are members of the Supreme Court who are nearing retirement age in the next 4 years, with the way the court make-up is right now, I think we need less biased Justices and I don't feel like the Republicans can nominate someone who would fit that criteria for me.

9/7/2012 1:15:10 PM

^^ so only a 3rd party candidate could fix the economy?

9/7/2012 1:15:27 PM

^ no. As has been said a few times, a third party candidate has no reasonable chance of being elected. But if enough people vote for third party candidates, maybe (call me an optimist) the major parties will snap out of this polarizing funk and actually work on real solutions.

Quote :

"I yearn, YEARN, for the days when the two parties would try to compromise. I want to force their hand, so to speak, and make them."

AMEN sister! I wish that just having to work at the same time was enough to make the idiots actually work together. Boy it'd be nice to have a functional government again.

[Edited on September 7, 2012 at 1:19 PM. Reason : quoting minka]

9/7/2012 1:18:04 PM

We really need to go in and clean house. The president is only one part of the problem, you still have everyone else in government that hasn't done shit in the last decade; everyone dragging their heels to not do work.

Whatever happens in November, doesn't matter who gets sworn in for the next tenure... Its going to be another 4 years of suckfest. We have a higher chance that the Bubonic Plague will kill 1/3 of Americans in the next 4 years than stabilizing the budget and reduce our debt burden.

9/7/2012 1:36:58 PM

I agree with that completely

9/7/2012 1:37:34 PM

By compromise you mean "achieve the goals I want"

By a "balanced" Supreme Court, you mean "a Supreme Court that votes how I want them to."

And there's nothing wrong with that, but don't call it compromise or balance when it's clearly not.




As far as who I'm voting for, I'm undecided. Leaning Romney.

9/7/2012 1:42:05 PM

@ AEA

Quote :

"But if enough people vote for third party candidates, maybe (call me an optimist) the major parties will snap out of this polarizing funk and actually work on real solutions."

I wish we could make that work and you are right about Congress. Fighting and finger pointing. It has always been that way though, all the way back to the beginning. You think candidates are nasty to each other now? Man, they were really bad back in the day of powdered wigs.
The only way to change things is to stay informed.
Fact check everything
don't trust the fuckers
Make a a vote based on what you know is true.

Maybe I should take your advice and also listen to my own but I really don't think the nation can survive the experiment and 4 more years of this guy.

I'm still going to vote for Romney.

9/7/2012 2:55:40 PM

3 of the Supreme Court Justices will turn 80 years old in the next 4 years.

If you want abortion to be criminalized, vote for Romney.



[Edited on September 7, 2012 at 4:13 PM. Reason : http://i.imgur.com/qxjue.jpg]

9/7/2012 4:07:50 PM

^please, those guys are like jedi... they don't die or retire. They get the best healthcare including Bart Simpson's blood transfusion with EPO.

9/7/2012 4:13:11 PM

^David Souter, John Paul Stevens and Sandra Day O'Conner all retired. 2 of them while in their 70s

9/7/2012 4:15:07 PM

Quote :

"Boy it'd be nice to have a functional government again"

With the way the House, the Senate, and the Executive Branch was designed, the US government functions exactly as prescribed.

Do you want stuff to actually happen fast? I don't. It is set up as a protective measure for the common citizen.


BTTT, I would like to see (in no particular order):

more tariffs on imports
abolition of the income tax system, the inheritance tax, and capital gains taxes
adoption of the FairTax
privatization of Social Security with a sundown clause/phased privatization
the issue of the legality of abortion to be handed to the states (legalize or criminalize)
end the war on drugs (decriminalize marijuana)
close all overseas military bases & end all conflicts and spend all defense money within the US (upgrade facilities at ALL bases)
end all humanitarian aid, including any type of restitution, until our budget is balanced
triple the Clean Water Fund money
increase the Highway fund 100-fold
triple NASA's budget
Tort reform
legislate reform of the AMA
double education spending on primary education
remove subsidies from corn
remove subsidies from oil
more grant money for alternative energy research and construction of nuclear energy
more grant money for medical research
reform the FED
reform the Student Loan process (end the subsidies)
increase funding for Community Colleges and Technical Schools and re-introduce these curriculums (AG Ed, shop, automotive technology, etc.) at the HS level
add term limits to Congress
amend the Constitution to mandate a balanced budget with the repercussion of ineligibility of reelection if the budget is not balanced
amend the Constitution to limit the complexity of legislation
outlaw the trading of futures
and outlaw the trading of commodities.

Simple enough, huh?

As far as the election, I am still undecided

9/7/2012 4:19:30 PM

All of which were nominated by Republican presidents^^

None of which regularly sided with the conservative wing of the court (though O'Connor did moreso than Stevens or Souter).

So the argument that a republican president is incapable of picking an unbiased Justice is a poor one.

[Edited on September 7, 2012 at 4:21 PM. Reason : .]

9/7/2012 4:20:48 PM

Not Obama. He said to hold him accountable for all the things he promised during the '08 campaign. He did not deliver, therefore, does not get my vote.

9/7/2012 5:37:30 PM

Mdozers list is very similar to mine.

9/7/2012 5:40:27 PM

Quote :

"Not Obama. He said to hold him accountable for all the things he promised during the '08 campaign. He did not deliver, therefore, does not get my vote."

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/rulings/promise-kept/

9/7/2012 5:47:18 PM

Ron Paul because I'm socially liberal and fiscally conservative and I've decided it's time for me to start voting on principle instead of choosing between a giant douche and a turd sandwich.

9/7/2012 7:37:29 PM

Planning on Gary Johnson (L).

Quote :

"We need a military commander who has a background in science and engineering, but have no religious ties to be our next president... or in other words... Will Smith from I Am Legend."

Hmmm...I know a guy.

Quote :

"But you can't vote for Romney and do the same"

Sure you can. You just can't tell me how to spend my money (quite as much) by voting that way.

Quote :

"It also doesn't help the poor when your leveraged buyout eliminates their factory job or their counter job at KB Toys."

Bain largely bought out sinking ships and attempted to right them. In cases where they had to give up and abandon ship, that isn't Bain's fault.

Quote :

"Ron Paul isnt the only "third" party candidate - there are other options out there."

Ron Paul isn't a 3rd party or any other kind of candidate.

Quote :

"That I blame almost entirely on congress. Every friggin elected official has boxed themselves into their campaign promises to "never do ____", which ensures that nothing gets done."

Specifically, the problem is that the GOP candidates are almost all beholden to Grover Norquist and his anti-tax pledge. When President Obama offered lots of spending cuts in exchange for a few tax hikes, the GOP should have jumped on it, but they can't, or Norquist would have their asses, or at least that's what they fear.

Of course, inflation is a tax--a tax that affects people with money, as the poor have no savings, anyway...our debt generally ultimately results in inflation as we print money to cope; therefore you can either pay in taxes or pay in inflation.

I don't believe in soaking the rich; I believe in closing loopholes and also making it so that people deriving their income from LTCG and dividends have to pay "normal" taxes, and then I would accept very modest tax increases across the board (except to the truly poor, as it makes no sense to tax them and then give them government social programs).

Quote :

"Ron Paul because I'm socially liberal and fiscally conservative and I've decided it's time for me to start voting on principle instead of choosing between a giant douche and a turd sandwich."

You cannot fucking vote for Ron Paul; he isn't running for President. You need to vote for Gary Johnson, who is better than Ron Paul, anyway.

Quote :

"Mdozers list is very similar to mine."

Ehh, there are some really good things in there, and then there are some really dumb ones. Also, it's like he can't figure out if he's a libertarian or a raging statist.

9/7/2012 9:11:59 PM

Similar but not he same.

People can vote for Ron Paul. People can write in whoever they want.

Duke, whats your take on the Fair Tax?

9/7/2012 9:20:58 PM

Sure, but I mean, you might as well vote for Mickey Mouse...or better yet, me.

Umm, I'm not really a FairTaxer, although I'd prefer it to the current system.

9/7/2012 9:23:55 PM

So, you have read the Fair Tax book?

9/7/2012 9:24:48 PM

No, but I'm fairly familiar with it.

I just would rather see a hybrid system of taxing both income and consumption, and I think there are better ways to tax consumption (i.e., VAT).

9/7/2012 9:27:38 PM

Fair Tax is not a VAT. Only the end consumer pays tax. It would also replace income tax.
Everyone consumes so everyone pays. Including illegals and tourists.
Is there a way around it? Sure, the barter system. But the threat is minor.
Anyway, you are familiar and haven't read the book.
I prefer Fair Tax or a flat tax. Keep it simple and fair.

9/7/2012 9:33:08 PM

I don't like the idea of a pure flat tax.

I know FairTax isn't a VAT; I'm saying I'd like to see the combination of a greatly simplified income tax, coupled with a VAT that accounts for a significant portion of our tax revenue.

9/7/2012 9:41:20 PM

What don't you like about a flat tax? Its pretty simple, right?

9/7/2012 9:44:12 PM

I wouldn't want to tax the first ___ dollars of income (i.e., the issue addressed by the FairTax "prebate")

9/7/2012 9:46:29 PM

Right. The prebate where everyone gets the same amount of money back each month to cover the "necessities of life".
The prebate is fair to everyone and prevents hoarding of goods in a system that would just declare certain items tax free.
Fair tax is a consumption tax whereas the flat tax is an income tax, say 10%. With either Flat or Fair tax the IRS would be reduced or eliminated which would shrink the gov't and, IMO, thats a good thing. You would only need one tax system so I wonder why you want a VAT and an income tax?

BTW, I don't believe in a progressive tax system because, well its what we have today and it sucks. Too open to corruption, promotes class warfare and gives to much manipulative power to the gov't.

9/7/2012 9:58:28 PM

I'm voting for President Obama, but I can completely understand why people would vote for Gary Johnson, and there's a lot I like about him too. Despite rhetoric the Republican Party in practice isn't a party of small government or less spending or personal freedom, which makes their extremely socially conservative party platform stand out all the more.

President Obama signed an executive order which allows for hospital visitation for gay couples, signed into law the repeal of don't ask don't tell, and supports marriage equality. His stances align more closely with mine than the Republican platform on public education, college accessibility, clean energy, Latino issues, women's rights, equality issues, and voting rights.

Who the President appoints for the Supreme Court over the next term could make a huge difference on issues like marriage equality and whether or not Citizens United stands.

9/7/2012 10:18:31 PM

I bet I can pick out the items from my list you think are stupid, Duke. Probably anything that would be considered isolationist? Especially concerning the foreign aid and the base closures.

9/7/2012 10:31:24 PM

No, I mean, I don't really agree there, although we should probably be less interventionist than we are now...but it was some other stuff.

9/7/2012 10:50:21 PM

9/7/2012 10:57:15 PM

Quote :

"BTW, I don't believe in a progressive tax system because, well its what we have today and it sucks. Too open to corruption, promotes class warfare and gives to much manipulative power to the gov't."

i don't like our progressive tax system because the cutoffs are arbitrary. no two people live the same lives or handle their money the same way, yet once you hit a point, you are automatically taxed more. of course, i'll be the first to admit that a change like that would be a massive undertaking.


i'm probably voting for gary johnson. i'm pretty disenchanted with both parties - the older i get, the more cynical i become about the prospect of either major party bringing legitimate, positive change. maybe a push in the direction of a new philosophy is what we need.


[Edited on September 7, 2012 at 11:19 PM. Reason : .]

9/7/2012 11:12:51 PM

Quote :

""We need a military commander who has a background in science and engineering, but have no religious ties to be our next president... or in other words... Will Smith from I Am Legend.""

This is terrible, this idea.

9/7/2012 11:13:02 PM

how in the hell has wdprice not posted in here yet?

9/7/2012 11:19:05 PM

I will ask the important question, does it matter if Rom or Obam is president bc im thinking either way we are all still going to be fucked. These niggas aint Jesus they can really only do so much

9/7/2012 11:27:57 PM

Quote :

"These niggas aint Jesus they can really only do so much"

9/7/2012 11:32:33 PM

^^^^ never seen the movie, but what's wrong with that general description?

9/7/2012 11:36:52 PM