Yes. Romney is moving beyond being Schroedinger's candidate. He now wants to be both positions at the same time permanently.

10/3/2012 10:03:28 PM

^ Yes.

But only because Obamacare didn't unify the nation...

10/3/2012 10:04:03 PM

a life panel?

10/3/2012 10:06:55 PM

yes brah

10/3/2012 10:08:03 PM

Mitt looking good but is not saying anything but "trust me"

10/3/2012 10:09:22 PM

YOMAMA, guess where i am?

10/3/2012 10:11:22 PM

Obama should have picked on the health care being a profit driven industry more.

10/3/2012 10:15:09 PM

CAN I FINISH?

[Edited on October 3, 2012 at 10:22 PM. Reason : No me long winded]

10/3/2012 10:21:15 PM

I just started watching, but i think Romney does a better job using simpler statements.

10/3/2012 10:21:50 PM

Ooooh a zinger?

10/3/2012 10:22:16 PM

Quote :

"YOMAMA, guess where i am?"

Yomama's house?

10/3/2012 10:22:34 PM

They couldn't even give Romney his own zingers.

"Not entitled to your own facts" is Al Franken's line.

10/3/2012 10:24:59 PM

Shit my bIngo card still isn't even closed to be filled in, so I'd say overall shitty debate

10/3/2012 10:30:02 PM

based on the last 15 minutes, Romney did a better job, based on using easier to understand phrases.

10/3/2012 10:31:39 PM

2012 Presidential MasterDebate Thread (Page 2)
2012 Presidential Erection (Page 2 3 4 5)

10/3/2012 10:34:42 PM

Between the President hammering Romney on all the missing details and the failed arithmetic behind trying to cut the deficit with tax cuts and no real spending cuts, I think he came across as better able to paint a picture of his opponent. Romney was also shown as on the wrong side of the AARP on more than one occasion which isn't a good position to be in during an election.

Romney spending time trying walk a line between supporting RomneyCare and opposing ObamaCare seemed like a hard line to walk that doesn’t pick him up any points.

Romney needed a game changer at this point. I think the President won, but even for someone thinking Romney won, I don’t think anyone thinks this was the game changer that Romney needed at this point.

[Edited on October 3, 2012 at 11:09 PM. Reason : .]

10/3/2012 10:53:40 PM

Ok, serious post now.

Debates aren't about facts and presenting what can actually work. Everyone knows Romney's plan makes no sense and that has been proven by third party analysis time and time again. So he either is lying or he completely overhauled his plan that he has been campaigning on for months.

BUT, he looked and sounded more confident and better. Period. That is pretty much inarguable. And that is obviously the most important thing.

10/3/2012 10:56:11 PM

^^I am pretty sure the rest of America doesn't agree with you on who won the debate. At least try to be realistic. You can't be such a Obama homer that you thought he did a good job tonight....?

10/3/2012 11:00:12 PM

CNBC did a fact check segment, pointed out that Obama's 5 trillion figure was bullshit based off 10 year projections from a left leaning policy center and that Mitt's plan lacked specifics but that counter studies from right leaning think tanks showed that it could be revenue neutral depending on which deductions were changed.

Basically that things were too nebulous to pin down since neither one of them actually gave much in terms of detail. Lots of broad stroke stuff obviously.

10/3/2012 11:04:41 PM

^^^ sadly

10/3/2012 11:05:23 PM

I wonder how different they would have sounded over the radio?

10/3/2012 11:05:23 PM

Come on now. He compared Obama to one of his sons and provided no details.

10/3/2012 11:05:58 PM

I was glad to hear a President proud of repealing Don't Ask Don't Tell, rather than Romney/Ryan who both opposed repeal.

timswar:

Quote :

"Wow. Romney cannot handle having someone else tell him when he can talk."

I noticed that too. He seemed to end up talking really fast at the end of all his answers to make up for that.

10/3/2012 11:19:39 PM

fact chex
https://twitter.com/politifact
https://twitter.com/factcheckdotorg

10/3/2012 11:26:26 PM

I've mentioned this a couple times before Supplanter...

While you might be in good company here, do you honestly think as a DNC delegate you bring anything objective to the table?

Please shut the fuck up.

10/3/2012 11:42:28 PM

Quote :

"Please shut the fuck up."

Funny that you keep telling people to take a step back and calm down while alternating between language like that and caps lock. Don't be mad.

10/3/2012 11:47:51 PM

oh, he mad

10/3/2012 11:50:09 PM

Romney clearly won, and I say that as a guy who will be voting for Obama in November. Romney was more aggressive, had more numbers memorized, and generally put the President on his heels for most of the debate.

I would expect Obama to come out swinging in the next one.

10/4/2012 12:04:07 AM

I'm pretty sure the VP debate is going to be tough on Biden. You never know though, I sure wasn't expecting this from Romney tonight, so who knows maybe Biden will look like a genius and Ryan will be terrified.

10/4/2012 12:15:25 AM

^^ i only caught the last 15 minutes, but I felt Obama did better with having numbers, but he did a really poor job framing the relevance of what he was trying to get across.

^ Biden is charismatic and snarky, i think he'll do well actually. Ryan strikes me as stodgy and doesn't see very quick on his feet, and his "numbers" don't really all add it, it only takes pointing this out once or 2x before he'll get thrown off his game.

10/4/2012 12:29:05 AM

Debating is all about posturing, and in case you haven't noticed, since hes been in Congress that is literally all Ryan has done.

Also (in case you haven't noticed) Biden's snarkiness almost always hits Biden in the taint. If he could actually aim that particular weapon it might very well be an ally.

Recall his last debate experience he could have easily won while playing his GameBoy. I'd say hes even more ill-prepared than Obama.

In his defense I will say this, however; he at least appears to enjoy his job/value it more than Obama. His problem tonight was he didn't want to be there and doesn't have much fight left in him.

I can only hope he stays similarly disinterested.

10/4/2012 12:37:03 AM

http://www.theonion.com/articles/biden-implores-obama-to-rub-one-out-before-debate,29785/

Obama did seem distracted...

Yeah, I suppose it's possible. I don't know that I'd call Biden charismatic. Smooth maybe, snarky definitely, but charismatic is a bit of a stretch.

Here's the bigger potential problem with Biden, after tonight's showing from Obama the VP will be expected to be on the attack and aggressive. That's a risk with Biden as he could easily come across as not snarky and quick, but as condescending and mean. You know he's going to attack the Ryan plan and more, but what other stuff might he address and how much of a risk is it that he'll go to far? Couldn't you see Biden saying something to the effect of, "do you really want this kid and a Mormon in the white house?"

Asking Biden to be aggressive and attacking is just asking for trouble.

10/4/2012 12:40:15 AM

I want Obama to memorize some quotes of shit Romney has said that completely contradicts what he is going to be saying at any moment. And then when Romney still tries to change it up, call him a liar to his face.

If they end up debating the issues, Romney will win because he literally has taken every side of every issue at some point in time and he will just lie his way out of it or offer up some vague bullshit about jobs or the middle class without actually saying anything. Obama needs to absolutely hammer away at Mitt's incredibly lacking integrity issues.

^ Why would they let Biden out? There are still two presidential debates left. They want the the VP debate to be as low key and unnoticed as possible.

[Edited on October 4, 2012 at 12:49 AM. Reason : ]

10/4/2012 12:46:47 AM

^^ that's biden's strength, IMO.

Obama can't ever act too "angry" about things, because the GOP race machine will start playing up the "angry black man" stereotype.

Biden OTOH comes off as sort-of like a jock, so he can be aggressive and play a little loose with the facts, as long as he's cheerleading for his team.

I can see Ryan going on a diatribe about a few billion this, a few billion that wasted by Obama, then Biden just saying "c'mon Ryan, you know that's not true. GM is alive, Bin Laden is dead" and he'd come off as the winner.

10/4/2012 12:59:58 AM

Keep the headlines to a minimum Joe

10/4/2012 1:02:17 AM

Gary Johnson made it to the debate afterall

10/4/2012 3:51:59 AM

Are you people really counting on Joe Biden to recover this fumble?

Let's see how low the media can set the bar over this next week.

10/4/2012 7:32:26 AM

It was so boring I fell asleep, but it looked like Romney was winning.

I'm glad I fell asleep because I was becoming less and less enthused about voting as the thing went on. It's really astonishing how we can talk for so many months in all these different formats without anybody accidentally saying, "I'd like to decriminalize drugs, legalize marijuana, and let non-violent drug offenders out of prison. Thank you." Or, "War is bad. I'm going to try not to kill so many people. Thank you."

I'm at negative enthusiasm right now, but I'm still really, really looking forward to voting against Paul Ryan. I'm also pumped about the prospect of North Carolina staying Democrat for the presidency. And I'm stoked that Elizabeth Warren is winning her race.

10/4/2012 7:36:27 AM

Why specifically do you hate Paul Ryan? Will it matter to you at all how he performs against Biden?

Who said anything about North Carolina falling Obama again?

10/4/2012 7:39:36 AM

1. How can you possibly have so many questions when there is nothing to actually talk about? Have you been up all night on drugs?
2. Paul Ryan is a little bitch, and his performance against Biden does not matter to me. What's he gonna do--be less of a childish, deceptive asshole than usual? He's a grown man who still admires Ayn Rand.
3. I mentioned the prospect of North Carolina being Democrat again because I felt like it, not because somebody else said something about it.

10/4/2012 8:08:15 AM

I have a problem with your 1 & 3.

They seem a bit anal.

10/4/2012 8:22:48 AM

LOL. I guess I actually did appreciate your questions...at least it means you read it and want to talk and stuff.

Also, I'm trying not to curse on here so much so I would like to replace "bitch" with "baby" and "asshole" with "jerk." Sorry for the foul language, folks!

10/4/2012 9:11:53 AM

Well id like to know what you meant with #1 so I can respond.

I don't think most people expect NC to go blue. It's leaning Romney outside the margin of error.

Amendment 1 anybody?

10/4/2012 10:02:54 AM

not commenting on anything else, but i didn't think amendment 1 voting really paralleled partisan lines. a lot of the religious blacks who usually vote democrat are against gay marriage.

[Edited on October 4, 2012 at 10:12 AM. Reason : ]

10/4/2012 10:11:33 AM

...and what is Obama's stance on that now?

10/4/2012 10:28:02 AM

touche. however, i doubt that'll sway many black democrats to vote for romney.

10/4/2012 10:34:05 AM

I don't claim to know how much sway black church leaders have over their flock's voting habits.

I have a thing for demographics and statistics however, so one of the most enjoyable things about any election is to see how the cookie crumbles after the fact.

10/4/2012 10:40:08 AM

Just so we are clear there is absolutely no chance that obama wins NC

By and large NC is a working state. Not gonna happen.

10/4/2012 10:42:56 AM

so what you're saying face, is that people who work aren't voting for obama? do you work?

10/4/2012 10:47:27 AM

I guess the biggest suprise was the way mitt tacked to the center so many times.

"Regulation is essential"

"End Special accounting for oil companies"

I'm sure there are other instances I can't remember, wtf?


REAL conservatives were bashing Romney endlessly for his record being too moderate, so he swings right to appease. Now he surprises with a little moderation and they cheer. Hard to figure these people out.

10/4/2012 10:58:42 AM