four2.0

11/7/2012 12:02:59 AM

Quote :

"It seems like at that price, the black market will continue to thrive"

completely depends on quality

$12/gram for some killer is a great price

11/7/2012 12:03:06 AM

Colorado actually first state to legalize marijuana for recreational use... looks like even Massachusetts passed it for medical use... times are changing.

11/7/2012 12:03:24 AM

Who gives a shit. Your employer is still going to drug test you when you get hired or if you get injured in your cubicle


actually i've never been drug tested now that i think about it.

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

11/7/2012 12:04:43 AM

legitimate medicinal marijuana patients in previous states that had legalized medicinal marijuana already got arrested since federal law states that marijuana is illegal, even though states' rights are supposed to trump federal rights

but we'll see how it goes in WA and CO

11/7/2012 12:07:09 AM

marijuana product

11/7/2012 12:11:16 AM

Quote :

"Who gives a shit. Your employer is still going to drug test you when you get hired or if you get injured in your cubicle"

one of the biggest potential social benefits of weed, convincing people to not waste their time trying to get a job in a fucking cubicle

11/7/2012 12:11:27 AM

um could you elaborate, I don't even know what that means. Are you saying cubicle jobs suck or that people who smoke weed work mostly at whole foods?

because the biggest social benefit of legalizing weed is that people don't get put into some level of the justice system, and your tax dollars aren't wasted on some 20 year old kid busted with 3 ounces of weed.

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

11/7/2012 12:14:13 AM

peyton's investment in denver area papa johns stores looks really good now

11/7/2012 12:58:16 AM

^solid post

11/7/2012 12:59:44 AM

Quote :

" even though states' rights are supposed to trump federal rights"

You have this backwards.

11/7/2012 1:00:34 AM

Are ther White Castles in Washington state?

11/7/2012 1:14:34 AM

Will anyone fly to Amsterdam anymore?

Will this cause the European economy to crumble?

11/7/2012 1:15:32 AM

Quote :

"You have this backwards."

according to the Constitution, presently.

what's the argument for why federal rights should trump states' rights?

11/7/2012 1:16:14 AM

^ it's in the constitution? Did you miss the civil war...?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supremacy_Clause

11/7/2012 1:26:21 AM

my bad i got confused with the 'any rights not given to the federal govt shall be states rights' or whatever

11/7/2012 1:29:22 AM

Yeah the FBI is not gonna be out pulling you over in traffic checking your shit for a personal stash.

11/7/2012 1:31:51 AM

no but they'll continue to bust medicinal shops in states where its legal

11/7/2012 1:35:25 AM

civil disobedience

11/7/2012 1:38:09 AM

civil disobedience for selling medicinal marijuana in a state where its legal to sell medicinal marijuana? sounds kind of fishy to me

11/7/2012 1:41:58 AM

Bushes people used to raid bong stores and destroy all their inventory even if it was marked as being for tobacco use only.

Pick your poison.

11/7/2012 1:50:13 AM

i chose to pick neither poison in either 2000, 2004, 2008 or this year

i just question the feds and state govts willingness to work together in situations like this

11/7/2012 1:52:44 AM

Quote :

"it's in the constitution? Did you miss the civil war...?"

i got that

my question is, why should we stick with that? i'm suggesting that despite the Constitution presently supporting the total supremacy of federal law to state law, it might be better if we chose to operate things differently

11/7/2012 2:02:34 AM

Quote :

"It seems like at that price, the black market will continue to thrive."

I figured they would do this. Get the price just under what people are currently paying and the choice is simple. Buy it legally for high prices or take your chances.

11/7/2012 6:29:41 AM

how did all this go?

11/7/2012 8:32:06 AM

how did all this go?

11/7/2012 8:32:06 AM

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/06/marijuana-legalization-results_n_2074168.html

Colorado: Yes to recreational use
Oregon: No to recreational use
Washington: Yes to recreational use
Massachusetts: Yes to medicinal use
Arkansas: No to recreational use
Montana: Yes to restrictions on medical use.

11/7/2012 8:52:30 AM

job security

[Edited on November 7, 2012 at 9:14 AM. Reason : ...although legality doesnt seem to change whether people smoke it or not..]

11/7/2012 8:59:18 AM

NC should go ahead and legalize it. Would take care of our funding woes with the sin tax I'm sure they'd put on it. And it'd be a job creator! Somebody get a meeting with Pat McCrory stat!

[Edited on November 7, 2012 at 9:09 AM. Reason : d]

11/7/2012 9:09:20 AM

dont forget to take a shower before your meeting with the governor, you dirty fucking hippies.

11/7/2012 9:13:54 AM

just can't sell pot until noon on sundays

11/7/2012 9:22:58 AM

Quote :

"one of the biggest potential social benefits of weed, convincing people to not waste their time trying to get a job in a fucking cubicle "

11/7/2012 9:37:08 AM

It will be interesting to see how it plays out over the next few years. They've basically 'legalized' small possession but in turn created a long new list of ways to arrest people on possession-related charges. The biggest issue being the DUID and the arbitrary number (5ng/ml) they've established, with no scientific basis of correlation to impairment whatsoever.

[words]

Quote :

" November 6, 2012 Initiative 502 has passed in Washington State, with portions of the measure becoming law on December 6th of this year (the 1 ounce decrim and the new DUID mandate). The rest will follow a year later. Regardless of what side of the debate you were on, this is the reality of our current cannabis policies in Washington State. Part of Initiative 502 will soon be law. We first want to congratulate those behind this initiative on their success. National headlines proclaiming that “Washington State Has Legalized Marijuana” will benefit the movement, and decriminalization of an ounce will stop many unneeded misdemeanors. That said, we opposed this initiative for good reason. Rhetoric and politics aside, the new driving under the influence of drugs policy for THC, which is per se (meaning your blood level, not impairment, is the determining factor for guilt), will ensnare innocent individuals, especially patients, and especially those under 21, for whom it’s a zero tolerance policy. We must work to remedy this. Understand that even if you consumed cannabis days ago, you may not be safe, and should take these precautions. Active THC lingers in the body for days, and we have no home test for individuals to determine if they’re below 5ng/ml before they drive. Given the concerns with this limit, and givin it has no scientific basis, we will work vigorously on making a change to this policy. The Legislature can’t alter it with a majority vote for 2 years (though they can with a two-thirds majority vote), but we will lobby our state’s house and senate to try and build support for a repeal of this mandate. In addition, we will continue to work towards bringing meaningful reform, and true legalization. Once Initiative 502 has taken full effect, cannabis will remain a schedule 1 drug under state law, next to heroin. We will continue to work on removing cannabis from this list, and repealing the laws that make it illegal for adults, just as our state did with alcohol prohibition. "

Quote :

" Deconstructing I-502 Part 8: Opposition In Summary October 10, 2012 Here are the key reasons why, after deep consideration, our organization voted unanimously to oppose this measure (you can read our full analysis here): - Initiative 502 will retain cannabis as a schedule 1 controlled substance under state law. This classification declares cannabis equal to heroin in danger and illegality. Instead of legalization, it will set up a narrow exception for certain activities, such as possession of a small amount. However, gifting or sharing, such as passing a joint, will remain a felony charge. Home-growing, even a single plant, will remain as illegal as before. This is far from legalization, indicating right away that things aren’t what they’re being put across as. - The regulation and taxation system – if not the entire initiative – will be rendered invalid by the federal government. The initiative forces the state to license businesses for, and collect taxes from, a substance that is a schedule 1 drug under both federal and state law. This directly conflicts with our Federal Controlled Substances Act, as well as our State’s Uniform Controlled Substances Act, which will give the federal government complete legal authority to take it to federal court, and quickly preempt it. This will effectively take down either the entire initiative, or the specific parts that conflict with these acts — the distribution, regulation, and taxation system. Ultimately, no tax revenue would be produced from the proposed retail outlets. - Beyond the fact that it’s federally preemptable, the regulation system is outlandish. It hands complete control to the Washington State Liquor Control Board (WSLCB). They will control the THC in the cannabis sold, the maximum number of retail outlets per county, etc. (New Section. Sec. 10., Pages 18-21). Some fear a government takeover of cannabis. Initiative 502 mandates it. - The licensing system will lead to individuals spending years, even decades, in federal prison, despite the fact that those individuals will be following state law. This could be said with medical cannabis as well, but Initiative 502 goes as far as forcing all business license applicants, whether growing or selling, to submit their fingerprints, along with the address of the location where they plan to grow or sell, to the FBI (New Section. Sec. 8., page 16). This is clearly criminal entrapment. - Initiative 502 mandates a new driving under the influence of drugs (DUID) provision for THC that will result in prosecution of the innocent. Supporters of this measure argue that they have the science and technology to justify the limit as appropriate, but this is entirely untrue. In fact, just last year, Colorado’s Legislature tasked a workgroup to examine the science surrounding the exact 5ng/ml THC limit that Initiative 502 sets up. The workgroup came to the conclusion not to recommend the limit, based primarily on a lack of science, and the potential for prosecuting innocent people. Colorado has rejected the limit, three times. In our own state, Representative Roger Goodman introduced an even higher 8ng/ml limit for THC last year. It didn’t take long for him to revoke it. His reasoning was simple: in addition to lacking legislative support, the public objected vehemently, and he concluded after an analysis that there was no science to back it. Even the U.S. Department of Transportation has stated: “It is not possible to conclude anything about a driver’s impairment on the basis of his/her plasma concentrations.” The National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws (NORML), in a widely read piece denouncing similar per se policies, stated: “There’s a new front in the “War on Drugs” and its name is DUID.” The Marijuana Policy Project has called this same 5ng/ml limit “absurd”: “The bill would set a limit of five nanograms of THC per milliliter of whole blood where, above that limit, a driver is automatically considered to be driving under the influence of drugs. This is absurd.” The truth is that the limit mandated in this initiative has no basis in science, and it is not fair policy. Patients and casual consumers will fail this test and be prosecuted for a life-altering DUID long after they’re impaired (a DUID is a harsher sentence than possession of an ounce). Reports have consistently shown this to be true. Even worse, the per se policy in Initiative 502 would include conclusive presumption, meaning you literally lose your right to defend yourself in court against allegations of impairment. This is bad policy. - Initiative 502 completely ignores, and endangers young adults. It mandates a zero-tolerance driving policy for those under 21 (Sec. 31., Page 46). This is unethical policy, and will lead to prosecution of those aged 16-21 simply for having consumed cannabis days or even weeks before (this zero tolerance policy is the only provision of the initiative that alters current law for those under 21). A DUID on a person’s record can affect their lives forever. This limit appears to ignore the fact that individuals aged 18-21 are allowed under state law to use doctor-recommended medical cannabis. No one should ever drive impaired, regardless of the substance, but zero-tolerance driving policies are never related to impairment. Nathan Miller, when he was a legal analyst for the Marijuana Policy Project, put it perfectly: “Zero-tolerance laws aren’t about making roadways safer; they’re a disingenuous attempt to create a powerful, intrusive tool to root out those who use controlled substances such as marijuana, regardless of whether they operate an automobile under its influence. This type of justice is cruel, unusual, and bad public policy.” - Initiative 502 could end up increasing the black market. The initiative allows for possession of an ounce of dried cannabis, but retains the illegality of growing even a single plant. Beyond this, federal preemption will stop any legal retail outlet from opening or being licensed. That stated, we are left with a scenario that forces individuals to the same black market we’re trying to defeat in order to purchase their legal ounce. This is not the way to reform our cannabis polices, or stop the dangerous consequences of prohibition. - Initiative 502 won’t stop the 10,000 arrests that proponents claim it will. These numbers don’t account for a number of offenses that Initiative 502 doesn’t alter, such as possession by someone under 21, someone possessing even a gram over an ounce, someone growing a single plant, etc.. Also take into consideration New York City, where possession of just under an ounce (25 grams) is decriminalized. Despite this, there were over 50,000 arrests for simple cannabis possession in 2011 based on police stopping people and telling them to empty their pockets – resulting in the crime of “public display”. “Public Display” is still a crime under I-502. "

http://sensiblewashington.org/blog/

11/7/2012 9:59:26 AM

yeah that stuff about getting a DUID for so many ng/ml of cannabis in your system is some shit

i can see that going badly for chronic (heh) users that are sober but have a high background level/tolerance and then get into it with a traffic cop

11/7/2012 10:21:07 AM

In NC, you just have prove impairment due to marijuana to find guilty, there is no per se limit. However, under 21, you just have to have evidence that it was in your system.

11/7/2012 10:45:04 AM

So yeah this doesn't sound better at all.

How does the law in Colorodo compare?

[Edited on November 7, 2012 at 2:25 PM. Reason : Do they really expect to make 300 million dollars with these kind of rules?!]

11/7/2012 2:24:52 PM

How would a cop have PC to investigate you for driving while stoned if you were not exhibiting behaviors of being stoned.

11/7/2012 3:52:21 PM

"His eyes looked a little red to me. I thought I smelled weed in the car. He seemed overly nervous and agitated while talking to me." They can come up with all sorts of PC without actually having PC.

11/7/2012 3:54:59 PM

welcome to being black, white people.

11/7/2012 3:56:00 PM

Wow, so let me get the facts straight for Colorado:
- legally mandated for ~$12 per gram
- legally under state law to possess <1 ounce, or $340 worth of it
- you can never be sure about legality of driving after consuming

Obviously this is a slow approach to legalization, but no one expected anything else. I'll tell you what it is - a tourism money grab. The rules will be cumbersome to residents, but they'll be almost irrelevant to people traveling to the state.

The mandated price is just baffling, but makes some sense in the light of tourism. Everyone knows that pot that can be grown legally would have a market value at least an order of magnitude lower than what we're used to. By making the legal parameters set to the current (illegal) market prices, they're in a sense asking the tourists to dump more money when they visit.

The value of smoking the higher price legal pot would clearly be worth it to someone who's already blowing the money for a long ski trip, although locals would be much more likely to ignore the rules.

You can pish-posh on the level of permissiveness of this, but the fact of the matter is that people can visit and get high with basically no legal risk to themselves. Yes, this is a finite market, but it is a giant market. The state will do very very well for itself.

11/7/2012 4:16:32 PM

jesus christ get screentest the entire fuck out of here.

11/7/2012 4:18:24 PM

Quote :

"The value of smoking the higher price legal pot would clearly be worth it to someone who's already blowing the money for a long ski trip, although locals would be much more likely to ignore the rules."

It'll be worth it for the locals too. I'm sure if you're caught with weed and can't produce tax stamps that you'll be hit with a fine.

11/7/2012 4:20:43 PM

can't wait to get ran the fuck over by even more retards than before zooming down the mountain stoned on my next ski trip.

sonny bono'n it up.

[Edited on November 7, 2012 at 4:21 PM. Reason : e]

11/7/2012 4:21:19 PM

It'll actually cause them to go slower and be more cautious.

11/7/2012 4:24:07 PM

Quote :

""His eyes looked a little red to me. I thought I smelled weed in the car. He seemed overly nervous and agitated while talking to me." They can come up with all sorts of PC without actually having PC."

11/7/2012 4:30:26 PM

Quote :

"It'll be worth it for the locals too. I'm sure if you're caught with weed and can't produce tax stamps that you'll be hit with a fine."

Yep, well that's the beauty of pot. It blows the concept of economic efficiency out of the water. If it were produced with the scale and engineering of corn, you could afford to have everyone perpetually baked for cents per day.

That's the real story of drug prohibition too. Alcohol and tobacco fit the agenda because they are inherently inefficient. The high you get for the economic inputs it requires is very poor, not to mention the physical harm from using it. For the near term, the pot supply chain can still thrive with some pretty onerous government taxes and restrictions.

The incredible thing is that this really isn't an experiment that's been done before. Pot was never legal at the "back door" in Amsterdam, and it sounds like the state laws in this case will allow small scale growing. The problem with recreational drugs is that they're too good at what they do, and we don't know what kind of push back we might see as drug prohibition starts crumbling.

I can just picture pot plants become absurdly large in order to produce more under the limitation of 6 or so plants in a residence. You can't underestimate selective breeding.

11/7/2012 4:42:12 PM

so your saying someone will grow a POT TREE

11/7/2012 5:11:54 PM

They could also build their homes to fit the pot plants.

11/7/2012 5:53:26 PM

11/7/2012 5:58:10 PM

Funions

11/7/2012 8:32:28 PM