What's wrong with bestiality?

12/11/2012 9:35:30 PM

an animal can not give consent so it's basically animal rape

12/12/2012 8:34:19 AM

^ so I guess all animal-animal sex is rape too

12/12/2012 9:00:39 AM

Quote :

"Scalia's point is that there are many laws based on morality. If the Supreme court were to use the argument that it's unconstitutional to force one's view of morality on others in order to strike down state laws banning gay marriage, they would have to strike down bestiality laws and other "morality laws" as well. "

You fell for Scalia's trolling.

We do have laws that are based on morality, but those laws (the ones that are constitutional) 1) serve a secular purpose, 2) neither advocate or inhibits religion, and 3) don't foster an excessive government entanglement with religion. Scalia knows this (its from a supreme court case) but is trolling dimwits.

Additional Reading: http://www.usconstitution.net/lemon.html


tl,dr: laws based only on morality that serve no secular purpose are not constitutional. If a law does not meet those 3 criteria, its not constitutional.

[Edited on December 12, 2012 at 9:38 AM. Reason : tl,dr]

12/12/2012 9:21:09 AM

Quote :

"we do not have laws that are only morality laws, laws based only on morality that serve no secular purpose are not constitutional"

States in white still have blue laws.

12/12/2012 9:40:47 AM

that's why i edited it, i meant that we do not have constitutional morality laws.

also, a lot of blue laws that are left would meet those 3 criteria and are thus constitutional per the lemon test. also some of them have already been challenged in the court, but there was sufficient secular reasoning for them to pass the test. so they are not all laws based only on morality, although i suspect that the courts decision on some of them would be different if challenged today.

12/12/2012 10:30:18 AM

"Uruguay gay marriage bill approved in lower house"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-20691378

Quote :

"Uruguay has moved closer to legalising gay marriage after the lower house of Congress approved a law making all marriages equal. The measure, which was passed by a wide margin, now goes to the Senate where it is expected to be approved."

Glad to see this. And it's happened only a week after Mexico's Supreme Court struck down marriage discrimination.

12/12/2012 11:15:51 AM

Quote :

"^ so I guess all animal-animal sex is rape too"

NICE TROLLING

12/12/2012 11:38:15 AM

^^ Britain is not too far behind

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_BRITAIN_GAY_MARRIAGE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-12-11-12-55-38

12/12/2012 11:40:39 AM

^^ So, animal breeding is fine, but bestiality is a no-go.

I'm not going to petition Congress to change it, but the fact of the matter remains that you are outright advocating for a legislative agenda based on nothing other than what feels right to you, without any moral consistency.

12/12/2012 11:51:23 AM

how can you draw a parallel between human/animal sexual relations and animal/animal sexual relations? sounds like trolling to me.

12/12/2012 12:03:34 PM

Quote :

"how can you draw a parallel between human/animal sexual relations and animal/animal sexual relations? "

You mean by pointing out how they are both non-consensual, which directly addressed your central point?

You're welcome to offer some other mechanism, but as it stands, you are ethically inconsistent. You said an animal can't give consent so it's rape. You haven't objected to animal breeding. My accusation is that you're inconsistent. In the absence of other information, everyone who's understood what I've written here has no choice but to make the same conclusion.

12/12/2012 12:41:47 PM

bestiality can be dangerous and deadly to both the human and the animal, that's one difference

[Edited on December 12, 2012 at 1:02 PM. Reason : or in another way, how about you go get fucked by a horse you troll]

12/12/2012 1:02:05 PM

How do you feel about someone who breeds a large (male) dog breed with a small (female) dog? Not only is it anatomically... uncomfortable, but it can kill the female.

Is a mule inherently unethical?

12/12/2012 1:09:45 PM

http://www.salon.com/2012/12/11/gop_mum_on_supreme_courts_doma_case/
House Republicans have been "radio silent" on the court's decision to hear one of the cases

Quote :

"Though House Republicans are in charge of defending the Defense of Marriage Act in court, so far they’ve kept quiet about the Supreme Court’s decision to hear a case challenging the law. Politico reports: In June, the House of Representatives told the Supreme Court that the constitutionality of the Defense of Marriage Act “is an issue of great national importance” that urgently requires the justices’ attention. The 1996 law denies federal benefits to same-sex married couples. But when the court agreed on Friday to hear one of the DOMA cases early next year, the Republican leadership had nothing to say about it. Advocates on both sides of the issue said they’d seen no statements from Republican lawmakers about the court’s decision to take on DOMA and an even more provocative dispute regarding a ban California voters approved on same-sex marriage. “I’m personally grateful to Speaker Boehner for being willing to defend the law, but it’s clear GOP elites don’t want to talk about it and want to keep it as quiet as possible,” Maggie Gallagher, a founder of the National Organization for Marriage, said. “That’s so obvious, I don’t see any point in pretending otherwise.” Tom McClusky of the Family Research Council agreed, telling Politico that there’s been “just radio silence” from the GOP in public. “I was disappointed there wasn’t more from the Hill.” Led by Republicans, the House Bipartisan Legal Advisory Group (BLAG) took over defending the law, which bars same-sex couples from receiving federal benefits, after the Obama administration said it would stop defending it in February 2011. So far, the House has allotted $2 million for DOMA’s defense — led by attorney Paul Clement — over Democrats’ objections. According to numbers released in October, almost $1.5 million had been spent as of then."

I'm a little surprise there hasn't been more talk about this. Republicans had no problem saying dumb things about controversial topics before an election but now have been pretty quiet. Do you think that they have learned their lesson, are they trying to dial back the amount of hate the put out?

12/12/2012 1:23:48 PM

Quote :

"you said an animal can't give consent so it's rape. "

well let me clarify...an animal can not give consent to a human because humans and animals can not communicate at that level. animals however, of the same or similar species, can communicate. depending on the animal or situation, consent may be given or not, but i don't see legislation of animal on animal rape happening any time soon.

12/12/2012 1:24:10 PM

the utlimate irony is that the entire concept of a contractual marriage is based in morality. why is it only 2 people who can get the benefits of marriage? why must they be married to get those benefits? why cant an unmarried couple (regardless of genders) get access to the same benefits? Its all designed to enforce the family concepts which are absolutely based in traditional morality.

thats not a reason for married gay couples to not get the same rights, but the argument that its some arbitrary enforcement if unconstitutional morality is a joke. we have long established the legal enforcement of morality in our laws all over the place. as the moral center of the country shifts, the laws change. thats why legalization of gay marriage and weed are becoming more common in the us. theres no stopping it, its just gonna take a little more time for the boomers to all finally kick off. and then your kids will be mad cause you're enforcing your morality on them through the law because they can marry their androids.

the idea that we dont enforce the populist morality in our laws is a joke and weakens your position. Married gay couples should absolutely have the right the same benefits as married straight couples under the equal protection provisions of the constitution and various civil rights laws that are already on the books. Those to strike down doma, not some arbitrary idea of whose morals are correct.

12/12/2012 1:34:13 PM

Quote :

"House Republicans have been "radio silent" on the court's decision to hear one of the cases"

Fox News doesn't even have a story on it. I tried looking for one but no success.

12/12/2012 1:38:50 PM

Bestiality is a good example. So is polygamy. What is the constitutional justification for outlawing polygamy? It's based on morality, right?

12/12/2012 2:14:46 PM

^^There's not an election happening right now. The issue doesn't matter to them.

12/12/2012 2:45:52 PM

Have Republicans realized they are on the wrong side of this issue? Have they looked at the polling? Did their failed referendums soften their positions?

12/12/2012 6:12:10 PM

or the more cynical view...do some of the elected officials who say ridiculous shit not even buy it, but know that it resonates with the dipshit masses?

12/12/2012 8:35:41 PM

and why are they not saying them now?

12/12/2012 8:36:31 PM

I'd argue that it's reasonable to assume an animal consents if it fucks you.

12/13/2012 10:27:04 AM

^^ because they aren't trying to get the dipshit masses to vote for them?

12/13/2012 12:52:10 PM

Quote :

"^^ Britain is not too far behind"

Looks like Scotland too!

http://gaystarnews.com/article/scotland-unveils-draft-gay-marriage-bill131212-1

Quote :

"Scotland unveils draft gay marriage bill Scotland makes history by becoming the first part of the United Kingdom to publish legislation to allow same-sex marriage The Scottish government launched the ‘Marriage and Civil Partnership (Scotland) Bill’, which will introduce marriage equality, yesterday (12 December) alongside a 14-week consultation on its implementation."

Quote :

"It generally takes at least 6 months for a bill to go through parliament, so if the bill is introduced by May or June, it might be passed by around the end of 2013."

12/13/2012 6:44:10 PM

well shit, their dudes have been wearing skirts for hundreds of years already.

12/13/2012 6:54:54 PM

^ hahaha...GG

12/14/2012 8:36:12 AM

http://www.queerty.com/gay-marriage-rally-france-20121217/

Quote :

"Tens of Thousands Flood France’s Streets In Favor Of Gay Marriage Over the weekend, tens of thousands of demonstrators came out across France to show their support for the same-sex marriage bill introduced by President François Hollande and the Socialist Party. Police estimated some 60,000 people gathered at the Place de la Bastille in Paris on Sunday, though organizers claim as many as 150,000 took part in the “demonstration for equality.”"

It says their Parliament is going to take this up next month. Its begging to look like 2013 and 2014 are going to be big years for marriage equality around much of the western world.

12/17/2012 10:53:28 AM

i thought all French guys were gay

12/18/2012 12:08:22 PM

http://www.advocate.com/politics/marriage-equality/2012/12/20/newt-gingrich-accepts-marriage-equality-inevitable

12/21/2012 9:38:59 AM

well Newt is right...it is inevitable

12/21/2012 9:47:22 AM

CNN's current front page story:

"2013: America on the cusp of social change"
http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/27/opinion/ghitis-2013-social-change/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

Quote :

"But the truly radical transformation has come in the area of gay rights. For the first time, Gallup Polls show a majority of Americans support full marriage equality for gay couples. That's an astonishing change. But it's not as astonishing as the wholesale acceptance of gay people that has suffused American society in the last few years."

Gallup joined almost every other national poll which has actually been showing this for a few years.

12/27/2012 4:51:37 PM

I like the super-dikey haircut on the author. It is good to see this country making progress, albeit slow progress, on social equality for homosexuals.

12/27/2012 4:57:33 PM

gallup. is. a. joke.

12/27/2012 6:14:43 PM

Quote :

"Gallup joined almost every other national poll which has actually been showing this for a few years."

Gallup had Romney up by 7 in October

12/27/2012 7:19:01 PM

^^^

Is this slow?

I was watching reruns of The OFfice with a friend, and there was an episode where OScar came out as gay, and the other characters were really weird about it. The episode came off as overly awkward, because people don't respond that way to gays "anymore."

12/27/2012 7:22:03 PM

They definitely still do in plenty of places

12/27/2012 7:41:26 PM

^^Where do you live, the Castro?

12/27/2012 8:04:46 PM

http://joemygod.blogspot.com/2012/12/maine-marriages-start-tomorrow.html#disqus_thread

Quote :

"Same-sex marriages commence in Maine tomorrow and Portland City Hall is bracing for a rush after midnight tonight."

Quote :

"One minister will park his RV outside of city hall to accommodate the overflow. Anybody inside city hall by 3AM tonight will be allowed to marry before the building closes."

A lot of excited happy couples will be getting married tonight and tomorrow. I remember all the images of happy couples after NY went for marriage equality last year, I'm looking forward to seeing the pictures from this.

12/28/2012 1:37:09 PM

The Maine pics are a little darker than the New York pics since people lined up to get hitched on opening night, but there seems to be a good crowd for 3 am in a pretty cold place this time of year.

12/29/2012 3:14:44 AM

"Obama urging state lawmakers to legalize gay marriage in Illinois: Sun-Times exclusive"
http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2012/12/obama_urging_state_lawmakers_t.html

Quote :

""As he has said, his personal view is that it's wrong to prevent couples who are in loving, committed relationships, and want to marry, from doing so. Were the President still in the Illinois State Legislature, he would support this measure that would treat all Illinois couples equally," Inouye said. The lead sponsors of the "Religious Freedom and Marriage Fairness Act," state Sen. Heather Steans (D-Chicago) and state Rep. Greg Harris (D-Chicago), intend to put the measure up for a vote during the upcoming January lame-duck session."

Quote :

"The practical impact of Obama urging his home state to legalize gay marriage is to prod--and give political cover to--reluctant Democrats from conservative suburban and Downstate districts."

Quote :

"While Obama rarely gets involved in statehouse battles, he has voiced support for gay marriage measures in the past year, issuing -- through his re-election campaign -- statements of support for gay marriage ballot questions up last November in Maine, Maryland and Washington. Those initiatives won, and a Minnesota referendum to ban gay marriage -- which Obama also publicly opposed -- lost."

I expect that's a state where he carries some weight. The article didn't say when in January, but it would be a good way to start the new year on the right foot for equality efforts.

12/29/2012 9:52:11 PM

I have no doubt about the outcome of this case. When you look at the progress worldwide, the silent GOP majority. Hell even the most conservative regions of America cant even turn on their tv without seeing modern family. Good luck raising your kids to hate gays if you are the type to have the tv babysit them....

In light of the massive election loss, last summer's encouraging ACA ruling, and the historic worlwide progress for marriage equality noted earlier in this thread, there is no way in hell that the SCOTUS will go rogue with some surprise ruling that stands in opposition to the current momentum.

You can go ahead and pop the champagne and sit back and relax and watch the show. We have enough money pouring in from both sides, such that the big money effect will in this case neutralize itself and not influence the decision, meanwhile the popular tide and the right side of history will push us forward to the future. This is highly encouraging news in the age of Citizens United. Sit back and enjoy the show guys. Job well done.

12/29/2012 10:52:38 PM

^ but will the conservative arms see enough legal justification to fit that view...? The Supreme court is def. not infallible, they've made tons of decisions that end up being wrong (reversed). This is yet another opportunity for them to be wrong.

12/29/2012 11:39:54 PM

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/01/16279759-lawfully-married-maryland-ushers-in-2013-with-its-first-same-sex-nuptials?lite

Quote :

"'Lawfully married': Maryland ushers in 2013 with its first same-sex nuptials BALTIMORE -- Seven gay couples in Maryland rang in the New Year with wedding bells early Tuesday, the first wave of nuptials since voters in the state backed the legalization of same-sex marriage."

"Westboro To Picket Maryland Courthouses"
http://joemygod.blogspot.com/2013/01/westboro-to-picket-maryland-courthouses.html#disqus_thread

[Edited on January 1, 2013 at 3:45 PM. Reason : .]

1/1/2013 3:27:37 PM

We know the dates now:

1/7/2013 7:52:46 PM

Quote :

"LIVE: Rhode Island House Marriage Vote UPDATE: Marriage Bill Passes 51-19!"

1/24/2013 11:48:35 PM

Progress!

1/25/2013 3:53:10 PM

"Mariage pour tous" : entre 125 000 et 400 000 personnes défilent à Paris

http://www.lemonde.fr/societe/article/2013/01/27/mariage-gay-des-milliers-de-manifestants-a-paris_1823139_3224.html

Quote :

"Selon la police, la manifestation organisée dimanche 27 janvier a rassemblé 125 000 personnes, alors que les organisateurs estiment qu'au moins 400 000 manifestants ont défilé dans les rues de Paris. Nicolas Gougain, porte-parole de l'Inter-LGBT, ajoute que les manifestations organisées samedi dans plusieurs villes de province ont également rassemblé 100 000 personnes, selon leur décompte. Il s'est félicité d'une "mobilisation qui dépasse très largement les homosexuels ou les associations LGBT"."

http://www.buzzfeed.com/chrisgeidner/ontario-gets-its-first-woman-premier-and-its-first

Quote :

"Ontario Gets Its First Woman Premier And Canada's First Out LGBT Premier Kathleen Wynne now leads Ontario's liberal party and becomes the province's first female premier. She also is married to a woman, making her Canada's first out LGBT premier."

1/27/2013 2:47:15 PM

"Fred Karger Reports: NOM's Brian Brown Was Paid $500K+ In 2011"

http://joemygod.blogspot.com/2013/01/fred-karger-reports-noms-brian-brown.html#disqus_thread

Quote :

"One thing is crystal clear; NOM president Brian Brown and former president Maggie Gallagher are definitely getting rich off the NOM donors – very rich."

http://joemygod.blogspot.com/2013/01/protect-marriage-were-broke.html#disqus_thread

"Protect Marriage: WE'RE BROKE"

Quote :

"ProtectMarriage.com, the advocacy group defending a California gay marriage ban now under review by the high court, showed a $2 million deficit in its legal fund at the end of 2011 - the third year in a row that expenses exceeded donations, federal tax records show."

Quote :

"ProtectMarriage.com's lead outside counsel, Charles Cooper, has not stopped work on the Supreme Court case, although he declined to comment on financial arrangements with clients."

Quote :

"Cooper's firm billed $4.5 million in 2010 and total expenses came to $6.1 million"

Some people are making a good deal of money off their hate-based politics.

1/30/2013 12:31:22 PM