probably keep class in line a lot more

12/14/2012 1:39:22 PM

Quote :

"The shooting began about 9:35 a.m., the parent said. There was a "pop pop pop" in the hall outside the room. Three people went out of the room into the hall where the sounds had come from. "Only one person came back," we were told."

omg don't go in the hallway y'all....dang

12/14/2012 1:40:12 PM

The police are searching a location in Jersey in connection with the shooting

(according to local CT news)

12/14/2012 1:40:17 PM

interesting. i wonder why

[Edited on December 14, 2012 at 1:41 PM. Reason : a]

12/14/2012 1:40:54 PM

News conference now

12/14/2012 1:41:04 PM

seeing video of the kids being walked out is too much

12/14/2012 1:41:05 PM

they should be required to get a concealed carry permit.

12/14/2012 1:41:27 PM

i'm almost afraid to piss people off these days for fear they'll take out a gun and start shooting.

12/14/2012 1:41:45 PM

What year was mental health care privatized?

12/14/2012 1:41:52 PM

Quote :

"The 5,740 children and teens killed by guns in 2008 and 2009: • Would fill more than 229 public school classrooms of 25 students each; • Was greater than the number of U.S. military personnel killed in action in Iraq and Afghanistan (5,013).2 The number of preschoolers killed by guns in 2008 (88) and in 2009 (85) was nearly double the number of law enforcement officers killed in the line of duty in 2008 (41) and 2009 (48)."

12/14/2012 1:42:35 PM

Quote :

"so you're implying this is a second degree murder case? this isn't an opportunistic act of violence"

are you being intentionally obtuse or are you truly this stupid?

i did not once say that this particular instance of gun-related violence would have undoubtedly been prevented through stricter gun control because it's second-degree murder case...i didn't even imply it

but hey, if you have evidence to the contrary, post it and i'll apologize

12/14/2012 1:43:52 PM

^^you should adjust those #'s to account for the high class sizes now.
I wonder what the circumstances are surrounding the preschooler deaths.

^

Quote :

"this is true...but from my perspective, stricter gun laws stop the less crazy and determined from EASILY committing atrocities like this"

based on what evidence

Quote :

"will a terrorist or gang thug still be able to get a gun illegally? of course...but much like not leaving your car doors unlocked prevents the opportunistic thief from stealing whatever valuables you left in the car while you ran inside the store for a few minutes, stricter gun control would prevent at least SOME violence (or so it seems to me)"

based on what evidence?

Quote :

"and the argument about how concealed carry should be more available and less restricted (in terms of places a gun can be carried)? i know the CC proponents think that would suddenly make everyone a sharpshooting hero who will stop crime in progress or from happening altogether, but that's just ridiculous"

don't know one way or the other

[Edited on December 14, 2012 at 1:44 PM. Reason : a]

[Edited on December 14, 2012 at 1:48 PM. Reason : asdf]

12/14/2012 1:43:54 PM

They aren't answering any questions about how many shooters, etc. and they said the gunman was found deceased in a classroom but didn't say whether he killed himself or whether it was someone else

they also didn't confirm the number of fatalities still have to notify family members and loved ones

[Edited on December 14, 2012 at 1:46 PM. Reason : .]

12/14/2012 1:44:44 PM

I know Newtown pretty well. 15 miles from where some family grew up and my sister lives about 25 miles away in the same county.

I'm so curious about the gunmen, despite others saying they should never talk about him. I disagree with that. It's important to know, at least a little bit, about WHY.

12/14/2012 1:47:26 PM

is it not enough to just accept that some people are crazy and will always do this? why doesn't matter

12/14/2012 1:48:45 PM

^^I agree.. I want to know why, not that it'll change anything, though.

I live in the same county 40 miles away

[Edited on December 14, 2012 at 1:49 PM. Reason : .]

12/14/2012 1:49:16 PM

20 year old gunman with some tie to the school. Older brother, ex-teacher, ex-boyfriend of a teacher, father?

12/14/2012 1:49:58 PM

My boss went to that school growing up.

12/14/2012 1:50:17 PM

Quote :

"is it not enough to just accept that some people are crazy and will always do this? why doesn't matter"

"why" does sometimes matter, it may prevent a simliar situation in the future. You know, those who ignore history are bound to repeat it and all.

12/14/2012 1:51:40 PM

What I don't like is the local news saying OH HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN, NEWTOWN IS SUCH A SAFE COMMUNITY etc etc

It could have happened anywhere.

12/14/2012 1:51:49 PM

^^hasn't worked so far has it

^

[Edited on December 14, 2012 at 1:53 PM. Reason : a]

12/14/2012 1:52:51 PM

Quote :

"is it not enough to just accept that some people are crazy and will always do this? why doesn't matter"

Because even the crazy have their reasons. Plus, the truly crazy are rather rare.

12/14/2012 1:53:02 PM

^^i'm sure it has

[Edited on December 14, 2012 at 1:53 PM. Reason : ]

12/14/2012 1:53:10 PM

Quote :

"based on what evidence"

it's logical to follow that making it harder to obtain guns will make it harder (note that i did not say "impossible") for those so inclined to commit gun violence to do so...i don't need "evidence" for common sense

Quote :

"based on what evidence?"

to disagree with me means that you think no gun violence whatsoever is committed in a moment of high emotion, with no premeditation...if that's what think you, fine

Quote :

"don't know one way or the other"

since i have personally heard and read of people asserting as much (that if CC were more common/accessible, more crimes would be prevented or stopped before more people were injured), at least SOME people believe this and it's an idiotic notion to think that simply being ALLOWED to CC makes you a better shooter, more likely to be in a position in which you can prevent/stop gun violence, and more likely to step up the plate and save the day...it's just moronic

please don't misunderstand me...i'm not anti-gun, nor am i in favor of doing away with CC...but i think it's tragic that some people truly believe the solution to gun violence is more guns

[Edited on December 14, 2012 at 1:57 PM. Reason : grammar]

12/14/2012 1:55:28 PM

^yes

12/14/2012 1:55:56 PM

My guess: divorced / estranged dad with a kid in the school. Mom cut him off from the kid (probably with good reason) with the school's help.

Ridiculous situation, something has to be done. Gun control isn't the answer, this is a social issue that is much deeper and more complex than just access to guns. Not that having easy access to them helps, but something is wrong with the core of our society when things like this are happening on a regular basis.

12/14/2012 1:59:14 PM

this is the type of crime that gun control laws will not change, terribly things like this will still happen. a reduction in guns will probably reduce some kinds of gun crimes... not this kind.

12/14/2012 2:00:06 PM

Holy shit. This has to be the worst one yet.

12/14/2012 2:00:39 PM

^ I think the VaTech guy still has the high score.

12/14/2012 2:01:43 PM

i can't even imagine how terrible it would be if you were a parent with a child in that school, then arriving and not being able to find your child? I don't even have children yet, but thinking about that makes me actually physically sick to my stomach.

12/14/2012 2:02:19 PM

Quote :

"^^hasn't worked so far has it "

BASED ON WHAT EVIDENCE?!?!?

12/14/2012 2:02:20 PM

^8
Oh, I know you aren't arguing pro/anti gun stance. I'm merely trying to elevate the conversation above conjecture.

And following that very logic that stricter gun laws reduce gun violence, I'd imagine the other lines in these charts would spike up.

^1



http://gunowners.org/fs0404.htm
#2, sub-section B
#8, sub-section C

My point is, saying things like "I feel like" or "it seems to me" spreads misconceptions and doesn't actually address things at face value.

[Edited on December 14, 2012 at 2:03 PM. Reason : a]

[Edited on December 14, 2012 at 2:03 PM. Reason : a]

12/14/2012 2:02:31 PM

Quote :

"this is the type of crime that gun control laws will not change, terribly things like this will still happen. a reduction in guns will probably reduce some kinds of gun crimes... not this kind."

true

Quote :

"My point is, saying things like "I feel like" or "it seems to me" spreads misconceptions and doesn't actually address things at face value."

i don't think my opinion in this thread has spread any sort of misconception...i never said that gun control would prevent this kind of thing from happening, just that it would prevent SOME gun violence from happening

and i think that's just logical...there's no way to prove what the result of stricter gun control would actually be

responsible gun owners (myself included, fwiw) are not the problem...but i truly don't think more guns are the solution, either

[Edited on December 14, 2012 at 2:05 PM. Reason : .]

12/14/2012 2:02:50 PM

Quote :

"this is the type of crime that gun control laws will not change"

BASED ON WHAT EVIDENCE?!?






this is fun...

12/14/2012 2:03:15 PM

I think the media coverage spawns a positive feedback cycle whereby other troubled young people see these glorified accounts and decide to do something similar when they otherwise would have just thought about it without acting. There has been a metric fuckton of gun-related killing sprees and murder-suicides this past month.

12/14/2012 2:05:03 PM

Are ya'll pointing fingers? Cause I'll point fingers

12/14/2012 2:05:51 PM

Reported but not confirmed: a woman found dead in a Newtown home.. thought by media to be mother of shooter

12/14/2012 2:05:54 PM

Quote :

"^ I think the VaTech guy still has the high score."

Many as far as total killed maybe, but in an elementary school...christ. Murder is murder, but I tend to judge the severity of a crime by the power disparity between the criminal and victims.

I can't imagine what feelings a parent would experience hearing this kind of news.

12/14/2012 2:06:16 PM

Quote :

"I think the media coverage spawns a positive feedback cycle whereby other troubled young people see these glorified accounts and decide to do something similar when they otherwise would have just thought about it without acting."

i could see that being true, though there's no way to prove it

Quote :

"There has been a metric fuckton of gun-related killing sprees and murder-suicides this past month."

world ends a week, yo, what do you expect?

12/14/2012 2:06:26 PM

I wonder if the local funeral homes are happy about this?

[Edited on December 14, 2012 at 2:07 PM. Reason : /]

12/14/2012 2:07:01 PM

we are letting everyone go home today, message from the boss said

"... today is probably a good day to take a step back and remember what you are thankful for. If you have children, maybe today is a good day to spend an afternoon hanging out with them...."

12/14/2012 2:07:15 PM

Reasons not to send your kids to public school are really piling up these days.

12/14/2012 2:08:02 PM

Has anyone else heard about this person being walked out of the school by the police in handcuffs?

12/14/2012 2:08:09 PM

Quote :

"responsible gun owners (myself included, fwiw) are not the problem...but i truly don't think more guns are the solution, either"

definitely a salient quote. responsible <people> are definitely not the problem. of course that's the case with crime in general.

more guns/less guns = not the solution. to Vulcan91's point, we haven't really figured out what the problem is. at least we think we haven't. i still maintain that humans are just like this by nature. in the US we use guns. In pakistan they behead people and stone people. humans like to kill (and i mean like from an instinctual perspective, not emotional)

12/14/2012 2:08:35 PM

And what about in every other nation that is comparable to the United States economically?

12/14/2012 2:09:27 PM

Local news reporter saying they spoke to a child and the child was told by the police to close his eyes and run down the hallway

so sad cant imagine what the hallways looked like. i hope they really did close their eyes

12/14/2012 2:09:36 PM

Quote :

""responsible gun owners (myself included, fwiw) are not the problem...but i truly don't think more guns are the solution, either""

agreed

Quote :

"Reasons not to send your kids to public school are really piling up these days."

are you arguing home schooling? cause this could've just as easily happened in a private school.

12/14/2012 2:09:57 PM

Quote :

"i still maintain that humans are just like this by nature."

if by "this" you mean "violent in general", i agree with you 100%

i agree that if it's not guns, it's going to knives...or fists...or sacks of rocks

but in general, a gun makes it FAR more easy to kill people (especially multiple or groups of people)...and i think it takes more thought to stab someone up close and personal than it does to pull a trigger a couple of times

just like giving the order to deploy a missile is not the same thing as strangling each of the victims individually, one by one

guns make it easier for us to give into our baser impulses...the problem isn't the gun, but the willingness with which a person kills another

[Edited on December 14, 2012 at 2:13 PM. Reason : .]

12/14/2012 2:11:49 PM

^4

using an individual human as an example, the US is a teenager, going through puberty and freaking the hell out. it's angry, quick to lash out and has no clue what it wants or what it's doing.

this could very well have something to do with it

^quite valid. and more to that, guns really are glorified in movies/television, etc. that has to have something to do with it. i wonder what would change if knives were glorified

[Edited on December 14, 2012 at 2:12 PM. Reason : a]

[Edited on December 14, 2012 at 2:13 PM. Reason : jank]

12/14/2012 2:12:21 PM

http://www.facebook.com/rlanza

Seems to be shooter.

12/14/2012 2:12:44 PM