2

many fucked up ppl in this world

1/10/2013 8:55:07 PM

in the sort of proximity you might see inside a school (say 10-15 yards), you still have to be marginally proficient to hit your target... maybe 12" of spread at that distance? unless it was choked

it could have been a whole lot worse with just a little better (worse?) aim by the stupid kid with the shotgun (or larger shot size)

1/10/2013 8:56:28 PM

I'd like to propose we transform this discussion into the best weapon to use if one were to shoot up a school....

1/10/2013 8:58:36 PM

I'd like to propose that nobody take that bait

1/10/2013 9:00:54 PM

left coast that shit made me laugh

1/10/2013 9:02:12 PM

It's cool, bro. People don't get suspended for that...

1/10/2013 9:03:39 PM

mmmmmmhmm.

abandon thread

1/10/2013 9:05:28 PM

1/10/2013 9:16:34 PM

Slow motion videos of performance of .223 REM and heavy buckshot in ballistics gel (simulates tissue):


.223/5.56 FMJ (Full Metal Jacket)




and then the 12-gauge 000-buck




As you can see, the .223/5.56 imparts almost as much energy to the target. It offers significantly more penetration, but the buck penetrates 16+", so that's kind of academic for this discussion. The wound channel made by the buckshot is far more severe.

I will concede that a hollow-point rifle round would impart a little more energy (maybe even more than the buckshot?), and would create a more severe wound channel (but definitely not like that of the shotgun, at close range).




Now, just for illustration, I'd like to show what a true high-powered rifle cartridge does, in light of all the wanking about the AR-15 being "a high-powered military-caliber weapon." It is true that the 5.56 (and the nearly identical .223 REM) is a military caliber. It is also very nearly the least powerful rifle cartridge on the market.

Here is a 7mm REM. I chose it as my example because it is what I have used for hunting. People hunt large game with cartridges somewhat larger and somewhat smaller, but for the game that we have in America, it's probably about middle of the road.

1/10/2013 9:32:15 PM

The reports are now saying that the kid felt bullied by the people he targeted.

I don't really think "mental health" would solve this. Rather, I wish schools were far more lax in letting good ole fashioned asswhoopins take place. Now with the threat of lawsuits and charges for getting into a fist fight at school, the consequences for defending yourself are far too severe.

Now you risk not being able to go to college, having a criminal record (depending on age, of course), being sued.

Now if you have asshats who bully you, what are you to do? Go to school administrators who will tell their mommy, which results in more bullying and harassment or you fucking break and you try and take them out.

If there was an outlet for that anger and frustration that wasn't necessarily deadly, it would be an improvement. Maybe you would get your ass kicked by the bully, maybe not. But you have to at least respect someone for sticking up for themselves, regardless of the outcome.

1/10/2013 9:42:52 PM

For real though. In high school, one of my friends was getting bullied, and got his gold chain stolen. So the next day, he brought a pistol to school with the intent of getting his shit back.

He got caught though, and expelled. Smart kid... Made a bad decision. Looking back on it all of these years later, getting expelled from school kind of fucked up his life by moving him off of his high school > college > career track...... And onto an alternative education > trade school >job track.

[Edited on January 10, 2013 at 9:48 PM. Reason : Swangin]

1/10/2013 9:46:57 PM

The bullied isn't necessarily afraid of the bully.

They are afraid of the administrators. The bullied is usually the weak little nerd that makes good grades.

In the event of a fight nowadays it doesn't matter who starts it or any other circumstances surrounding the fight. Both parties get suspended no questions asked.

Obviously the bully doesn't care... Shit happens all the time.

The bullied is devastated and probably wants to kill themselves.

Maybe the rules could favor the victim for a change and let a few bullies get their asses beat by the weak kid. Maybe that's why these shootings didn't happen in "the good old days," because parents of the weak kid would tell them "whatever you do, don't throw the first punch."

"Don't ever start a fight, but you damn well better finish it."

1/10/2013 9:48:28 PM

I agree that we often make way too big of a deal about it now when someone whips someone ass. Sometimes people have that shit coming to them and breaking their faces is the right thing to do and exactly what should happen.

However...I don't know how you fix that from a policy standpoint. Situations are different, and you can't make a rule for every eventuality, because sometimes whipping someone's ass isn't what should be done.

1/10/2013 9:59:19 PM

Quote :

"The bullied isn't necessarily afraid of the bully. They are afraid of the administrators. The bullied is usually the weak little nerd that makes good grades. In the event of a fight nowadays it doesn't matter who starts it or any other circumstances surrounding the fight. Both parties get suspended no questions asked. Obviously the bully doesn't care... Shit happens all the time. The bullied is devastated and probably wants to kill themselves. Maybe the rules could favor the victim for a change and let a few bullies get their asses beat by the weak kid. Maybe that's why these shootings didn't happen in "the good old days," because parents of the weak kid would tell them "whatever you do, don't throw the first punch." "Don't ever start a fight, but you damn well better finish it.""

Exactly. But it's even worse now in HS. If you get in a fight, not only are you suspended for at least a week, the school presses charges on you for assault. In the worst case, the person is on probation or goes to Juvenile Hall. In NC, in Moore County, they had like "Teen Court." If you got into a fight and were usually a bully, you could plea guilty to a crime and get off with some minor community service or having to go to anger management counselling.

Quote :

"However...I don't know how you fix that from a policy standpoint. Situations are different, and you can't make a rule for every eventuality, because sometimes whipping someone's ass isn't what should be done."

Bring it back to the 70s. Unless there is some serious bodily damage, let them fight just a little bit, break it up, sit their ass down in the Principal's office, got both sides of the story (usually you can tell pretty quickly who is the bully and who is not), then dish out punishment accordingly. Give the bully suspension or some harsher punishment (depending on record) and let the bullied go with a stern warning. If you can't determine fault, give them both a minor suspension.

1/10/2013 10:13:46 PM

I imagine I could have used a couple good beatdowns growing up...

1/10/2013 10:15:07 PM

http://www.myfoxny.com/story/20590152/elmont-high-school-under-lock-down

oh no!

1/22/2013 3:34:36 PM

http://www.wral.com/texas-official-3-wounded-in-college-shooting/12010582/

1/22/2013 3:45:28 PM

Quote :

"BREAKING NEWS: A 14-YEAR-OLD STUDENT WAS SHOT IN THE HEAD AT AN ATLANTA MIDDLE SCHOOL, LOCAL AUTHORITIES TELL THE ASSOCIATED PRESS."

http://www.wral.com/authorities-teen-wounded-in-ga-school-shooting/12049258/

1/31/2013 3:59:24 PM

1/31/2013 4:01:11 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/21/justice/nevada-middle-school-shooting/

Nevada middle school shooting: 2 killed, 2 injured

(CNN) -- Two people were killed and two were injured in a shooting at a Nevada middle school Monday, school officials said.

It was not immediately clear whether the death toll included the shooter.

Sparks Middle School, outside Reno, remains an active crime scene, school officials said in a Twitter post.

Two minors are in critical condition at Renown Regional Medical Center after the shooting, a hospital spokeswoman said.

Authorities released few details about the incident, but city officials said in a statement that the suspect was "neutralized."

"Law enforcement assures that the school and community are secured at this time," the statement said.

City officials said authorities received emergency calls from students and staff at the school about 7:15 a.m. about an active shooter on campus.

Authorities said students were being taken to a nearby high school to meet their parents. School was canceled for the day at Sparks Middle School and nearby Agnes Risley Elementary, officials said.

"I was deeply saddened to learn of the horrific shooting at Sparks Middle School this morning," Nevada Gov. Brian Sandoval said in a statement. "My administration is receiving regular updates and the Nevada Highway Patrol is assisting at the scene. Kathleen and I extend our thoughts and prayers to the victims and those affected by these tragic events."

CNN) -- [Breaking news update at 1:58 p.m. Monday]

A 13-year-old student told the Reno Gazette Journal that a student fired a shot at a teacher at a Nevada middle school on Monday. "The student was pointing a gun at the teacher after the teacher told him to put it down, and the student fired a shot at the teacher, and the teacher fell, and everybody ran away," the student said.

10/21/2013 2:09:24 PM

The parents who likely failed to secure their firearms from their idiotic kids will most likely not be charged with anything.

10/21/2013 2:11:21 PM

ibtguncontrolargument

10/21/2013 6:41:44 PM

This is just enraging.

Not this one, specifically...just how ongoing it is.

I wonder if it's like shark attacks were that one summer, or if these school/"random" shootings really are getting much more prevalent?

10/21/2013 7:55:11 PM

Quote :

"The bullied isn't necessarily afraid of the bully. They are afraid of the administrators. The bullied is usually the weak little nerd that makes good grades. "

I wasn't afraid of school administrators; I was afraid of the beating I'd get at home for getting suspended.

10/21/2013 10:15:12 PM

Looks like the authorities and the PIO in the school handled this in a fast, safe and VERY efficient manner.

Lots of other schools can take note at how effective the strategy was.

Centennial, Colorado.

12/13/2013 4:38:07 PM

I thought this was about my friend Colin's hilarity at American University.

But now I'm sad(der)

12/13/2013 9:10:17 PM

Mass stabbing at a highschool in PA.

They're saying 20 students stabbed/cut; some have been life-flighted for surgery.

4/9/2014 9:06:59 AM

News says at least 8 stabbed, 20 injured. 4 flown to hospitals.


This went down at a high school apparently.

[Edited on April 9, 2014 at 9:18 AM. Reason : ds]

4/9/2014 9:10:15 AM

Joe Carroll lives!

4/9/2014 9:21:00 AM

Jc wouldn't leave that many alive

4/9/2014 9:26:42 AM

the news needs to stop covering this and you all need to stop providing viewers! the public's blood lust for news like this is disgusting.

4/9/2014 9:30:47 AM

Looks like the gun-free zone worked...

4/9/2014 9:31:02 AM

I'm not so sure I buy the idea that if we ignore it, they'll stop doing it. I don't think that it's just about writing their otherwise insignificant names in the books.

4/9/2014 9:39:51 AM

I wonder what type of knife was used?

4/9/2014 9:51:18 AM

Quote :

"I'm not so sure I buy the idea that if we ignore it, they'll stop doing it. I don't think that it's just about writing their otherwise insignificant names in the books."

they would, media rules about reporting on suicides are how we stopped suicide clusters. from a previous post:

media is the contagion for suicide clusters
http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/1990-98190-018
http://abs.sagepub.com/content/46/9/1269.short
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1943-278X.1989.tb00363.x/abstract?deniedAccessCustomisedMessage=&userIsAuthenticated=false
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1749-6632.2001.tb05807.x/abstract?deniedAccessCustomisedMessage=&userIsAuthenticated=false
etc...


the CDC after studying the problem recommended tempered media coverage, which is effective at stopping or limiting suicide clusters:
https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/Publications/abstract.aspx?ID=122038
http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.3109/00048679309075828
etc...

Quote :

"I don't think suicide and school shootings are similar enough to make such an affirmative statement. "

they are the same

School Shooting as a Culturally Enforced Way of Expressing Suicidal Hostile Intentions
http://jaapl.org/content/36/4/544.short

Quote :

"I have watched in horror with most of America as the stories of the Chardon High School and Oikos University shootings unfolded. But my horror was twofold. The first misery came as I heard the names and numbers of victims and thought about the pain they and their families will endure for the rest of their lives. The second dose came as I held my breath, hoping and praying the media wouldn’t amplify the violence. But they did. They did exactly what was needed to influence the next perpetrator to lock and load. 1. They named the shooter. 2. They described his characteristics. 3. They detailed the crime. 4. They numbered the victims. 5. They ranked him against other “successful” attackers. School shootings are a contagion. And the media are consistent accomplices in most every one of them. There’s really no useful debate on the point. The consensus of social scientists since David Phillips’ groundbreaking work in 1974 is that highly publicized stories of deviant and dangerous behavior influences copycat incidents. Phillips’ and scores of subsequent studies showed, for example, that suicide rates spike in the week after an inappropriately publicized celebrity suicide. Contrast this trend with no increase in suicides in the week following a media strike that unintentionally suppresses such coverage. The same is true of school massacres."

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/crucial-conversations/201204/the-media-is-accomplice-in-school-shootings

America’s Foremost Criminal Profiler Warns Media Coverage Causes School Shootings
http://www.frontpagemag.com/2012/dgreenfield/americas-foremost-criminal-profiler-warns-media-coverage-causes-school-shootings/

http://www.riskinstitute.org/peri/images/file/Coleman_Copycateffect.pdf

Quote :

"An individual suicide is almost never newsworthy."

details of suicides used to be widely reported. and they spawned increased suicides in the days and weeks following. suicides are rarely newsworthy now because media adopted the CDC recommendations on how to report them.



[Edited on April 9, 2014 at 9:53 AM. Reason : this is pretty obvious and the conclusion is common sense]

4/9/2014 9:53:20 AM

This is the first time in 2 months a new headline glazed the CNN home page.

4/9/2014 10:15:40 AM