Quote :

"The Government has a vested interest in continuing the policy, mainly as a way to cheaply and profitably dispose of toxic waste that they otherwise would have to dispose of in a more environmentally friendly way. The chemical in question, hydrofluorosilicic acid, is a compound of different toxins which are wetscrubbed from the phosphate fertilizer manufacturing plants and sold to distributors, who then sell it to the municipality under the conventional wisdom that "Fluoride prevents cavities.""

That sounds more like a scam by the fertilizer manufacturing plants to get rid of their waste, not the government.

4/15/2013 10:39:02 AM

Quote :

"Most probably - The Government has a vested interest in continuing the policy, mainly as a way to cheaply and profitably dispose of toxic waste that they otherwise would have to dispose of in a more environmentally friendly way"

LOL

You might not actually be an idiot, but saying things like that makes you sound like one.

4/15/2013 10:40:16 AM

Quote :

"That sounds more like a scam by the fertilizer manufacturing plants to get rid of their waste, not the government."

You're exactly right...But who do they sell the chemical to?

The government, who then adds it to our water.

Moron - Why does this make me sound like an idiot, if it's true?

[Edited on April 15, 2013 at 10:43 AM. Reason : Addition]

4/15/2013 10:42:36 AM

the flouride levels in our municipal water fall into the "low-flouride" range of that study

and a good red flag that someone doesn't know what they are talking about is when they use the word "toxin." Dr. Mercola is one of these crazy alternative medicine nuts who thinks anything is a "toxin". the dude thinks that microwave ovens are dangerous, vaccinations are bad, and that AIDS is fake.

seriously dude

4/15/2013 10:46:55 AM

I just wish that I had a choice in the matter. Maybe I want rotting teeth!

MY BODY, MY CHOICE!

4/15/2013 10:49:12 AM

Quote :

"Why does this make me sound like an idiot, if it's true?"

is point is that this reasoning doesn't work because the government wouldn't be the one paying for disposal if they didn't use it


and a secondary product is not a waste, its a product. if i spin cotton into fiber and sell the byproducts to farmers its not waste, its a secondary product. but whatever, keep calling it a waste, its just a silly semantics issue.

4/15/2013 10:49:29 AM

^^^^
Haha

So the government is purchasing fluoride to profitably dispose of by putting it in water...?




[Edited on April 15, 2013 at 10:53 AM. Reason : ]

4/15/2013 10:49:56 AM

well duh, because if they buy it then its free

duh

4/15/2013 10:51:55 AM

Quote :

"the flouride levels in our municipal water fall into the "low-flouride" range of that study and a good red flag that someone doesn't know what they are talking about is when they use the word "toxin." Dr. Mercola is one of these crazy alternative medicine nuts who thinks anything is a "toxin". the dude thinks that microwave ovens are dangerous, vaccinations are bad, and that AIDS is fake. seriously dude "

Dtown - You can't discredit the information by attacking one person within the movement. I asked kindly for you to debate in an intelligent way the information surrounding this issue. You have degrees in water quality, so I would assume you have read the certificate of analysis provided by Key Chemical company which supplies Raleigh with hexafluorosilicic acid?

http://durhamagainstfluoride.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/certificate-of-analysis-fluoride.pdf

If you had, you would realize that there are measured and indicated levels of arsenic and lead which are purchased by you and me the Taxpayer and specifically ADDED to the water...Now tell me, how ingesting these chemicals is in any way beneficial to our health?

Secondly - do you not ever consider the ethical and legal implications of adding a drug to our water supply? Do you support the idea of adding medication to the water supply as a means of treating all citizens collectively? How do you measure the dosage? How do you control how much of this chemical one consumes? Don't we all drink different amounts of water?

4/15/2013 10:52:09 AM

I don't think arsenic and lead are added to water.

You realize that in cities with open air reservoirs, dead animals and paint cans are found regularly in the water supply? http://m.americancityandcounty.com/water/urination-reservoir-drained-20110622

This isn't a problem generally, because throughout most of human history the water we drink is far more contaminated.

Pretending that fluoride is the one culprit, and building up massive conspiracies surrounding it is abnormal and paranoid, and ignorant. If you really cared, and weren't just a crazy person, you'd be looking at the whole system instead if running around like Chicken Little.

4/15/2013 11:00:58 AM

I still don't understand why the government would spend money to buy and dispose of an industry's "waste".... that doesn't make sense to me.

and how does the amount of "waste" produced annually by fertilizer plants compare to the amount of "waste" that the government puts into the water supply annually?

4/15/2013 11:01:30 AM

There are threads about this in Chit Chat, The Soap Box, AND The Lounge... can we re-lock this shit?

4/15/2013 11:05:11 AM

^why do you care?

4/15/2013 11:08:30 AM

Moron - you're really living up to your user name. I JUST posted the certificate of analysis which reiterates exactly what I said about lead and arsenic being added. I'm not running around like chicken little, I'm an activist who is making an earnest effort to WARN YOU. I don't understand why I receive hate on this board for actually trying to help all of us.

Bullet - Take a look at the following video, where I visited the fluoridation station at Durham's water plant. The big tank which supplies fluoride is filled up about every 5-6 weeks. Fluoride is added to 88% of counties in NC and probably close to that for every decent sized city in the united states. It is a CONSIDERABLE amount of waste by-product.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwAJJm1w8po

4/15/2013 11:12:22 AM

again though, what sense does it make that the government would spend money to dispose of the fertilizer manufacturer's waste? usually the government just regulates industry to spend lots of money to dispose of their own waste. why would the government decide to help out fertilizer manufacturers and buy-up their waste, then use public water supply to dispose of the waste? that doesn't make sense.

Quote :

"It is a CONSIDERABLE amount of waste by-product."

I'll try to watch the video later. Is it CONSIDERABLE in comparison to the amount that is produce by fertlizer manufacturing plants across the country?

[Edited on April 15, 2013 at 11:23 AM. Reason : ]

4/15/2013 11:16:40 AM

they are not adding arsenic, they are adding something that has some arsenic in it. if i fed you apples, would you say that I was adding arsenic to you? because i would be.

the Hydrofluorosilicic Acid added to the water meets bot AWWA and NSF standards (that's even shown on the report you posted). (and I hope you didn't circle the percentage to imply that's what it is in the drinking water... because its not. its about 0.7-1 in the drinking water in Raleigh)

arsenic is found in groundwater in NC, if you have a well you have arsenic in your water at some level. it's also found naturally in a lot of things. arsenic is also the leading contaminants in the production of hydrofluorosilicic from phosphate ore. arsenic has a 10ppb MCL and Raleigh's drinking water sampling shows non-detect levels of arsenic. in fact, the NSF standard is based on studies that correlate arsenic levels to HFS and found that it does not contribute measurable quantities. so in other words, just because that product has some arsenic in it does not mean that your drinking water has measureable quantities of arsenic, because it doesn't. Unless you have a private well in Mecklenburg County, then your water has a lot of arsenic.

[Edited on April 15, 2013 at 11:24 AM. Reason : .]

4/15/2013 11:22:28 AM

I enjoy when users take a stand for the betterment of human health. It certainly is responsible and proactive. My question, though, is why the emphasis on hydrofluorosilicic acid?

Has your group considered taking on Dihydrogen Monoxide? It has a much more significant effect on our health, and is actually linked to many deaths each year.
http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html

4/15/2013 11:24:03 AM

This thread is fucking awesome I can't stop laughing thanks lounge :-)

4/15/2013 11:25:50 AM

Quote :

"again though, what sense does it make that the government would spend money to dispose of the fertilizer manufacturer's waste? usually the goernment just makes industry spend lots of money to dispose of their own waste. why would decide to help out fertilizer manufacturers and buy-up their waste, then use public water supply to dispose of the waste? that doesn't make sense. Quote : "It is a CONSIDERABLE amount of waste by-product." I'll try to watch the video later. Is it CONSIDERABLE in comparison to the amount that is produce by fertlizer manufacturing plants across the country?"

The EPA regulates the amount of FSA a fertilizer manufacturer can release into the atmosphere. The atmosphere is defined as air, streams, oceans, rivers, etc. So it is illegal for the company to release it in this manner.

The irony is that their answer to this regulation was a coordinated PR campaign involving "fluoride" in the 1950's funded by the manufacturers, which was repeated ad nauseum back then to create the public perception that fluoride was "healthy for the children" and therefore acceptable to be added to the water. So essentially the fluoridation policy was in response to environmental regulations which prevented this waste from being released into the atmosphere but the sad reality is that their answer is even worse...Which is to make all of us, our toilets, sinks and hoses the filtration system for this stuff.

So it is a mixture of factors which leaves us with this crazy policy -

some well meaning bureacrats who don't know better and think that they are doing a public good. They are the hardest to deal with honestly because they can't accept that what they thought was good, is actually bad.

Then you have people who are literally just as DUMB as the day is long, and will do whatever the higher echelons of government say. For example I can provide them all the evidence they want, but when the NC Department of Health says without providing evidence that everything I say is a bunch of BS, they will believe it.

Then you have city council folks who are literally getting kickbacks or positive PR for championing this policy, or who fear a negative PR campaign funded BY the fertilizer companies should they speak out against it.

It's a multi-layered onion which requires a certain level of awareness to understand. Not everyone in government is bad, but nor is everyone informed. There are many strings pulling from different places which keep the chemical flowing into our bloodstreams.

4/15/2013 11:28:23 AM

lol @ capnobvious...I'm all for banning water

4/15/2013 11:28:54 AM

Quote :

" Did you know Raleigh adds medication to the Water? "

Apparently, not quite enough.

4/15/2013 11:30:31 AM

this guy is upset about the 23.65%, but there is something even higher!

JUST LOOK AT THIS CERTIFICATE OF ANALYSIS! 63.5!


[Edited on April 15, 2013 at 11:32 AM. Reason : please, someone think of the children!]

4/15/2013 11:31:43 AM

This thread reeks of "First World Problem."

If drinking water is such a great concern, why not take the time and energy spent nit-picking municipal water treatment and do something about the rest of humanity who are left with no other options than to drink dirty, disease ridden water.

Where was the concern during Haiti's Cholera outbreak? Seems like that would have been a great time to point the finger at philanthropic failure.

4/15/2013 11:32:53 AM

http://golden-rule.org/tag/corey-sturmer/

Quote :

"Reported Attack Page! This web page at golden-rule.org has been reported as an attack page and has been blocked based on your security preferences. Attack pages try to install programs that steal private information, use your computer to attack others, or damage your system. Some attack pages intentionally distribute harmful software, but many are compromised without the knowledge or permission of their owners."

LMFAO.... holy shit.... a few google searches in and there are all kinds of secret societies, people living under the Earth's crust, and batshit conspiracies tied up with these people.

http://lucas2012infos.wordpress.com/2012/06/20/corey-sturmer-the-golden-rule-exclusive-discussion-with-cobra-on-gold-and-its-place-in-human-history-20-june-2012/

[Edited on April 15, 2013 at 11:35 AM. Reason : LOLOLOLOLOL]

4/15/2013 11:33:10 AM

Yes, one of my websites has been infected with a virus. I'm sorry, I'm working on it.

4/15/2013 11:36:06 AM

Quote :

"Where was the concern during Haiti's Cholera outbreak? Seems like that would have been a great time to point the finger at philanthropic failure."

the funny thing about this is that philanthropy caused their outbreak. Haiti hadn't had cholera for over a hundred years before Nepalese UN workers discharged their sewage into a stream and released a Nepalese strain of Cholera and started an outbreak. doh!

4/15/2013 11:36:23 AM

Quote :

"Corey Sturmer didn’t know much about fluoride in his drinking water until a year ago, when his dentist told him he has fluorisis, a condition that causes white spotting, yellowing and browning of the teeth, and erosion of the enamel. “I asked my dentist … is there fluoride in the drinking water? And he said, yeah … it’s good for your teeth. So then I began to wonder, if it’s so good for your teeth, why am I, at 25 years old, having all these issues with my teeth?” Sturmer said."

4/15/2013 11:39:08 AM

Hey Mildew, why not post the video??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REnWEUipZCA

4/15/2013 11:39:58 AM

Because I like this one better:

4/15/2013 11:44:14 AM

And this one:

4/15/2013 11:45:42 AM

If you're posting that, thinking that it will discredit or embarass me, you are sadly mistaken. There's way more to this world than you could possibly be aware of in your current dim state of evolution...In fact please post more as it will facilitate open discussion among many seemingly unenlightened people here.

[Edited on April 15, 2013 at 11:48 AM. Reason : Lol]

4/15/2013 11:47:03 AM

can we have a chemtrail thread next?!? I love chemtrail discussions!

4/15/2013 11:48:05 AM

Quote :

"your current dim state of evolution"

Quote :

"many seemingly unenlightened people here"

Is this what the birth of a GeniuSxBoY looks like? Is thegoldenrul here to anoint us with his vastly superior brain and super spy vision that can see the things we can't?

4/15/2013 11:57:10 AM

Gg mildew

4/15/2013 11:59:02 AM

Quote :

"There's way more to this world than you could possibly be aware of in your current dim state of evolution...In fact please post more as it will facilitate open discussion among many seemingly unenlightened people here."

I remember writing a psych paper on conspiracy theorists. They are afraid of the randomness of the world around them and unintended consequences. They cannot accept that there is not a set order in the world that humans do not control, everything of question to them is controlled by people in the government, mafia, space aliens, etc. so that there is intelligence behind the scenes that they feel they can understand and address. There is never a conspiracy theorist that only believes in one theory, they always grasp onto multiple across various areas of interest. My write up was arguing that it is actually a mental disorder and there are plenty of professionals that believe the same. From a real world standpoint, they are generally underachievers that want a lot of attention. Maybe they go to a news station with a story about their teeth wanting to be on tv and sensationalize everything.... after they failed getting attention for chem trails and ufo conspiracies. I am not saying you fit the profile of a conspiracy theorist (person with a mental disorder) exactly.... oh wait... yes, yes I am and yes you do.

4/15/2013 12:00:12 PM

This thread is great. Better start making your own toothpaste and drinking RO water. It's the only way you will survive.

Your cellphone poses a greater risk to you than the flouride in the water does.

4/15/2013 12:03:12 PM

thegoldenrul,

how do you feel about the kinoki detox foot pads that suck toxins from your feet? i'm really interested in following Dr. Mercola's holistic diet to prevent AIDS but many of the natural produce products that he recommends are high in arsenic since arsenic is naturally present in dirt. how should i avoid arsenic in natural foods, should i just let the foot pads suck it out?

thanks,
dtownral

4/15/2013 12:03:40 PM

Quote :

"The irony is that their answer to this regulation was a coordinated PR campaign involving "fluoride" in the 1950's funded by the manufacturers, which was repeated ad nauseum back then to create the public perception that fluoride was "healthy for the children" and therefore acceptable to be added to the water."

So the fertilizer manufacturer industry was behind the PR campaign?

4/15/2013 12:03:43 PM

Quote :

"Is this what the birth of a GeniuSxBoY looks like? Is thegoldenrul here to anoint us with his vastly superior brain and super spy vision that can see the things we can't?"

At a base level I'm not any more special than anyone else here, but it should be fairly self evident by now that those who are motivated enough to write a response to this thread like Mildew has done or some others I won't mention, are lacking in basic axiomatic thinking skills and do not have the same level of awareness as others who might intelligently want to discuss this very important issue.

That Mildew has gone out of his way to find other videos of me or other material published by me which he finds incredulous is a testament to his unwilligness to stay on topic and to, from the safety of his keyboard, convince himself that everything I say is nonsense simply because I attempt to discuss issues which he finds no moral imperative to investigate.

The irony of course is that he thinks by posting these other videos of me that it will somehow "end the discussion" because of their content is laughable since it does nothing but expand the awareness of everyone who watches them, and will accomplish the exact opposite of what he is trying to do in lieu of my discussions with others.

In any case, we already have dozens of people attending the fluoride free meetup and I have already gotten the attention of local media, so we will see in due time who is the crackpot and who is not.

4/15/2013 12:04:57 PM

Bullet -

Yes...Potash Incporated, Alcoa aluminum, and the American Dental Association

Mildew -

I like how you can generalize all "Conspiracy theorists" when this is not even a definable group. A conspiracy theorist is a pejorative term which is often used to just label someone and then walk away from the discussion. VERY cowardly. Secondly - did you deny in your psych paper the existence of conspiracy? Since a conspiracy is just, anyone developing a plan, isn't a theory just trying to postulate what that plan might be? God forbid us from every believing that men conspire...Cause men have never conspired throughout history, right???!

[Edited on April 15, 2013 at 12:09 PM. Reason : Mildew]

4/15/2013 12:06:57 PM

I still don't understand, so the government isn't trying to poison or brainwash us, they're just interested in getting rid of the "waste", and the poisoning is a result of that?

Quote :

"so we will see in due time who is the crackpot and who is not."

how so?

4/15/2013 12:07:49 PM

you should make a separate thread for chemtrails, we would like to discuss it but don't want to pull this off track.

were you going to respond to my post:

Quote :

"they are not adding arsenic, they are adding something that has some arsenic in it. if i fed you apples, would you say that I was adding arsenic to you? because i would be. the Hydrofluorosilicic Acid added to the water meets bot AWWA and NSF standards (that's even shown on the report you posted). (and I hope you didn't circle the percentage to imply that's what it is in the drinking water... because its not. its about 0.7-1 in the drinking water in Raleigh) arsenic is found in groundwater in NC, if you have a well you have arsenic in your water at some level. it's also found naturally in a lot of things. arsenic is also the leading contaminants in the production of hydrofluorosilicic from phosphate ore. arsenic has a 10ppb MCL and Raleigh's drinking water sampling shows non-detect levels of arsenic. in fact, the NSF standard is based on studies that correlate arsenic levels to HFS and found that it does not contribute measurable quantities. so in other words, just because that product has some arsenic in it does not mean that your drinking water has measureable quantities of arsenic, because it doesn't. Unless you have a private well in Mecklenburg County, then your water has a lot of arsenic. "

4/15/2013 12:08:14 PM

Quote :

"Potash Incporated, Alcoa aluminum, and the American Dental Association"

So the American Dental Assoc was in cahoots with the Fertilizer Manufacturers? What was in it for the American Dental Association? Were the Fertilizer Manufacturers paying them?

4/15/2013 12:09:12 PM

Quote :

"are lacking in basic axiomatic thinking skills and do not have the same level of awareness as others who might intelligently want to discuss this very important issue."

I can assure you that there are people posting in this thread with a higher awareness and IQ than you can even conceptualize.

4/15/2013 12:11:39 PM

Quote :

""they are not adding arsenic, they are adding something that has some arsenic in it. if i fed you apples, would you say that I was adding arsenic to you? because i would be. the Hydrofluorosilicic Acid added to the water meets bot AWWA and NSF standards (that's even shown on the report you posted). (and I hope you didn't circle the percentage to imply that's what it is in the drinking water... because its not. its about 0.7-1 in the drinking water in Raleigh) arsenic is found in groundwater in NC, if you have a well you have arsenic in your water at some level. it's also found naturally in a lot of things. arsenic is also the leading contaminants in the production of hydrofluorosilicic from phosphate ore. arsenic has a 10ppb MCL and Raleigh's drinking water sampling shows non-detect levels of arsenic. in fact, the NSF standard is based on studies that correlate arsenic levels to HFS and found that it does not contribute measurable quantities. so in other words, just because that product has some arsenic in it does not mean that your drinking water has measureable quantities of arsenic, because it doesn't. Unless you have a private well in Mecklenburg County, then your water has a lot of arsenic. ""

I'll answer this when you answer my question to you:

Quote :

"Secondly - do you not ever consider the ethical and legal implications of adding a drug to our water supply? Do you support the idea of adding medication to the water supply as a means of treating all citizens collectively? How do you measure the dosage? How do you control how much of this chemical one consumes? Don't we all drink different amounts of water?"

4/15/2013 12:11:46 PM

so your answer then is "no, i will not respond to your post. i just got owned by simple facts"

4/15/2013 12:13:29 PM

Did you know water has chlorine in it too? Chlorine gas can kill you...

4/15/2013 12:14:48 PM

Quote :

"The irony is that their answer to this regulation was a coordinated PR campaign involving "fluoride" in the 1950's funded by the manufacturers, which was repeated ad nauseum back then to create the public perception that fluoride was "healthy for the children" and therefore acceptable to be added to the water. So essentially the fluoridation policy was in response to environmental regulations which prevented this waste from being released into the atmosphere but the sad reality is that their answer is even worse...Which is to make all of us, our toilets, sinks and hoses the filtration system for this stuff."

Do you have proof of this conspiracy theory?

It seems like if fluoride was just about fertilizer companies wanting to poison everyone because that's easier than properly disposing of waste, then there must be a reason for all the studies indicating beneficial effects of fluoride.

Not to mention most if the fluoride will boil out when you boil the water, so any coffee or tea usage mitigates concerns.

And id think, considering all the pipes of unknown quality and upkeep that water has to flow through, a generally safe chemical that helps prevent mold growth is a good idea.

4/15/2013 12:15:10 PM

Bullet -

http://www.fluoride-osteosarcoma-law.com/fluoride_water.html

This was a strange phenomenon, given that the USPHS and the American Dental Association (ADA) had been adamantly against the addition of fluoride to drinking water for years. In October 1944, the Journal of the American Dental Association published this statement about fluoride in water:

We do know that the use of drinking water containing as little as 1.2 to 3.0 parts per million of fluoride will cause such developmental disturbances as osteosclerosis, spondylosis, and osteropetrosis, as well a goiter; and we cannot afford to run the risk of producing such serious systemic disturbances…

By 1950, however, the ADA had changed its tune without any further evidence regarding the safety of adding fluoride to our water. Even when the three initial studies were concluded, there was no evidence that fluoridated water posed a benefit to dental health.

It is interesting to note that, in 1947, the Chief Counsel of the Aluminum Company of America (ALCOA) became the head of the United States Public Health Service. At the time, ALCOA was the biggest producer of hazardous fluoride waste. The head of ALCOA provided very strong incentives to the American Dental Association to support the fluoridation of water. Today, the ADA is paid well to endorse the fluoridation of water. Grants are awarded to researchers who can show that fluoride is beneficial.

In July 2005, officials launched an investigation of one Harvard professor suspected of suppressing medical evidence linking fluoridated water with osteosarcoma (bone cancer) in adolescent boys (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/12/AR2005071201277.html) Please see our section on Fluoride and Osteosarcoma for more information about this serious fluoride health hazard.

4/15/2013 12:15:24 PM

Quote :

"We do know that the use of drinking water containing as little as 1.2 to 3.0 parts per million of fluoride will cause such developmental disturbances as osteosclerosis, spondylosis, and osteropetrosis, as well a goiter; and we cannot afford to run the risk of producing such serious systemic disturbances…"

good thing Raleigh manages the levels around 0.7-0.8 ppm then, huh

4/15/2013 12:16:58 PM