Quote :

"^^^^ that's legit if there's a law on the books. ...and if there is, the cops should be able to say what they're in violation of."

Quote :

"I wish someone had gotten the ticket that would have clarified which statute was being violated"

I agree.

They would probably just come up with disturbing the peace or something similar, but it would be nice to see how it played out in court.

It would probably be one of those situations where the people are not disturbing the peace at all, the cops show up and cause a scene, and for some reason it's the civilians' fault that the cops lost their temper and caused the disturbance.

[Edited on August 25, 2013 at 2:46 PM. Reason : o]

8/25/2013 2:43:47 PM

this is a great example of when NOT to get pissed at the cops

they're taking orders from the mayor and city council

8/25/2013 2:46:44 PM

someone unrelated to my OP but...

fuck the mayor

fuck the city council

8/25/2013 2:48:24 PM

Quote :

"they'd still be breaking DHHS rules governing food prep and distribution without inspection, certification or insurance."

yeah, but nobody is going to enforce that on people walking around handing food out to people.

setting up a goddamn buffet in a public place is a bit different.

as has already been said, there are lots of churches in this vicinity. go set up shop there. i bet the city council won't tell a church they can't feed the homeless.

8/25/2013 2:51:39 PM

^^^ Bullshit.

Regardless of whether they are lackeys or enforcers, they are complicit. Besides, a lot of these guys love this shit and encourage it at every opportunity. They have just as much free will as you and I.

[Edited on August 25, 2013 at 2:52 PM. Reason : l]

8/25/2013 2:52:07 PM

The thing is, the churches don't have the money to out-influence the developers who want to sell $300k condos right next to the new Moore Square.

You can be mad at the mayor and city council for caving to developers, but its those developers who are really the problem.

8/25/2013 2:53:20 PM

Quote :

"The Salvation Army is no longer there. They've moved a few miles north on Capital. The city owns the old Salvation Army property. Its redevelopment is part of the effort to push the homeless out of the park."

oops

Well there's still many other places in the area that they could partner with (i.e. Emmaus House, The Healing Place, Haven House, etc.)

Churches don't have the money?! Hahahahaha.

[Edited on August 25, 2013 at 3:01 PM. Reason : derp]

8/25/2013 2:56:40 PM

Quote :

"yeah, but nobody is going to enforce that on people walking around handing food out to people."

nobody thought they were going to enforce the laws on the books to people setting up on the sidewalk handing out biscuits either

just sayin'

8/25/2013 2:57:01 PM

Quote :

"I'm satisfied that this organization should move down the street a little bit onto some private property how about a nearby church?"

that would really suck for the bride and groom getting married that day at the church

8/25/2013 3:05:15 PM

I was one of the people lobbying against this group to get them kicked out of the park.

I win.

8/25/2013 3:09:13 PM

well, it would make sense that dtownral wouldn't like hobos in his place

8/25/2013 3:16:43 PM

Quote :

"Churches don't have the money?! Hahahahaha. "

Churches have a lot of money. They don't have John Kane money.

8/25/2013 3:21:09 PM

http://www.wral.com/nonprofit-says-it-was-threatened-with-arrest-for-feeding-raleigh-homeless/12815894/

story is up on wral

8/25/2013 3:21:21 PM

Quote :

"that would really suck for the bride and groom getting married that day at the church "

Not if they're Christians. Fuck.

8/25/2013 3:22:17 PM

god forbid any poor people enjoy any benefit to the real estate you got for dirt cheap and are seeking to gentrify them out of. wouldn't want to see how the other half lives

8/25/2013 3:22:53 PM

Quote :

"This is in place because the residents and businesses around Moore Square got fed up with Moore Square being the city's homeless services park. If they want to help the homeless, they can draw the homeless to the parks in their own neighborhoods and quit abusing Moore Square and its non-homeless residents. People want to come to Moore Square, feel good about themselves for a couple of hours, and then leave. They have no interest in what happens after they have attracted the city's homeless to Moore Square/City Market as the homeless then fan out to the neighborhood's businesses to panhandle. Scores of wasted and unstable homeless people are then free to harass businesses, patrons and residents. One of the things about existing homeless shelters is that services are provided only if their patrons are sober and off the street by 10pm. Free-for-all feedings in Moore Square breaks what is a well functioning system that actually helps address homelessness beyond a no-strings-attached food drive. Furthermore, these groups are more interested in themselves and their pet projects and have zero interest in the impact on the neighborhood, it's businesses, their employees and patrons and residents and what is essentially an unusable park. Prior to the long awaited renovation of Moore Square, rules had to be made to reclaim the park for residents and visitors, lest the city pour money into the renovation only to spruce it up for homeless people. Feel free to host any of these types of events in any other park in the city, but as a resident, we've been forced to bear the brunt of homeless services for 20 years. This law was made because many people think that it is someone elses turn."

8/25/2013 3:27:48 PM

Quote :

"Feel free to host any of these types of events in any other park in the city, but as a resident, we've been forced to bear the brunt of homeless services for 20 years."

NIMBY LOL

8/25/2013 3:30:23 PM

its an excellent point

8/25/2013 3:31:06 PM

yes, go feed the homeless in another park, farther away from us.

[Edited on August 25, 2013 at 3:32 PM. Reason : you aren't going to win any sympathy spouting dumb shit like that.]

[Edited on August 25, 2013 at 3:33 PM. Reason : i mean i agree they need to gtfo, but those are not the right reasons/responses to it.]

8/25/2013 3:31:48 PM

^it's not dumb shit. it's actually a sound argument against these religious groups who want to feel good for shoving a biscuit down the throats of homeless people two days a week

dtownral - who said that and can you please post that in response to everyone on facebook who keep reposting this "outrage"? that'd be greeeeaaaaatttt

[Edited on August 25, 2013 at 3:40 PM. Reason : giving them food is enabling - you want to help them? help the underlying problem - getting jobs,

[Edited on August 25, 2013 at 3:41 PM. Reason : places to live, education, healthcare, etc]

[Edited on August 25, 2013 at 3:41 PM. Reason : PRAY THE HOMELESS AWAY]

[Edited on August 25, 2013 at 3:43 PM. Reason : add another note like shoot]

8/25/2013 3:36:12 PM

I completely understand "it shouldn't be our problem."

But "make it anyone else's problem" is not a solution.

8/25/2013 3:36:29 PM

it's not THE solution, but it's certainly a solution

8/25/2013 3:41:44 PM

Quote :

"dtownral - who said that and can you post that in response to everyone on facebook who keep reposting this "outrage""

http://www.reddit.com/r/raleigh/comments/1l0v91/feeding_homeless_apparently_illegal_in_raleigh_nc/cbumvsl

I volunteer to feed homeless too... at a soup kitchen that's not far away (on Thursday nights)

8/25/2013 3:43:00 PM

how would you feel if you walked out your front door every saturday and sunday morning and there was 70+ homeless, drug addicted violent offenders standing around expecting a biscuit from your neighbor someone who doesn't even live in your neighborhood? Then after receiving said biscuit they threw the wrapper in your yard?

Maybe we could have one of them randomly shanked and killed every 10-12 months for added realism?

But don't worry, and don't you dare complain. Your rights as a property owner don't mean shit as long as we're "helping people".

[Edited on August 25, 2013 at 3:44 PM. Reason : .]

8/25/2013 3:43:22 PM

some of us in the area would like to be able to use the park, and before this we couldn't at all.

there are already places setup to feed homeless, lets let the park be a park

8/25/2013 3:44:21 PM

Quote :

"there are already places setup to feed homeless, lets let the park be a park"

actually I'm stealing this instead

[Edited on August 25, 2013 at 3:46 PM. Reason : other post is WORDS]

8/25/2013 3:46:32 PM

yeah basically. i pretty much agree with what was said until the end when it suggests just doing it in other parks.

the people involved in running these meals definitely strike me as the "HEY LOOK AT ME I'M HELPING PEOPLE" kind who are doing this for all the wrong reasons and probably wouldn't give the time of day to the homeless if they're just walking down the street. to me, they aren't really trying to help the homeless, just making themselves feel/look good.

but trying to just pawn this issue off on to other people IS dumb shit.

[Edited on August 25, 2013 at 3:50 PM. Reason : yes, let the park be a park.]

8/25/2013 3:48:06 PM

Quote :

"there was 70+ homeless, drug addicted violent offenders"

8/25/2013 3:49:51 PM

that's not his point when he talks about doing it somewhere else. his point is that this is being done from people outside of this neighborhood who come down for 2 hours to get their feel-goods.

because they go home after food is served, they don't get to see all the undesired effects of their good will. if they saw the undesired effects, they would probably decide differently.

8/25/2013 3:50:32 PM

Charlotte > Raleigh

8/25/2013 3:52:46 PM

Quote :

" This law was made because many people think that it is someone elses turn."

it sure sounds like that was part of his point.

but anyways, we agree for the most part, so let's be friends.

8/25/2013 3:52:59 PM

Quote :

"we've been forced to bear the brunt of homeless services for 20 years"

reminds me of the guy who moves into a house next door to the music venue, then gets all mad when they play music

8/25/2013 3:57:50 PM

more like the guy who moves next to a park and finds out its a homeless services camp

8/25/2013 4:00:20 PM

"I want to move downtown, but I don't want to deal with things that occur downtown in any decent sized city"

8/25/2013 4:01:34 PM

lots of cities have restrictions on exactly this

8/25/2013 4:02:20 PM

If this has been going on for 20 years, it sounds like it was common knowledge and anyone considering moving there should've known about it

8/25/2013 4:03:54 PM

8/25/2013 4:04:04 PM

if I bought a homeless guy a suit from Goodwill, and offered to drive him to a job interview, do you think he'd take me up on the offer?

8/25/2013 4:05:13 PM

Gotcha, a group has been breaking the law for an extended period of time, so rather than enforce the law it should just be okay and we should let them keep doing it

8/25/2013 4:05:27 PM

Being out of Raleigh for a number of years, I didn't know the name Moore Square, and figured these pissed off residents were in some suburban subdivision or something. Then I looked it up and saw it was right in the middle of downtown, and shook my head.

[Edited on August 25, 2013 at 4:07 PM. Reason : ^They should probably just get a permit and continue to help the less fortunate]

8/25/2013 4:05:57 PM

Or they could address the underlying issue and stop putting a bandaid on it. Giving handouts doesn't work.

8/25/2013 4:14:44 PM

Quote :

"less fortunate"

This is a shit phrase designed to garner sympathy. It implies all homeless are homeless due to some freak occurrence of chance or luck rather than bad personal life choices or something controllable.

8/25/2013 4:16:13 PM

^^Perhaps, but that seems to be a different argument. It seems most people just want them to go somewhere else

^Potato, potatto

8/25/2013 4:18:25 PM

^^good point. the reciprocal of that can also be true - all non-homeless are successful due to some freak occurrence of chance or luck rather than good personal life choices and hard work

8/25/2013 4:41:14 PM

http://www.indyweek.com/citizen/archives/2013/08/25/feeding-the-homeless-in-moore-square-barred-by-raleigh-cops-mayor-and-council-scrambling-to-find-out-why

Quote :

"Everyone wants to know why the Raleigh City Council is doing this. The short answer is, this is the Raleigh city administration at work, not the Council. Right now, Council members and Mayor McFarlane are working the phones trying to figure out what the administration is doing .. and why."

Quote :

"On the Moore Square/food distribution issue, I just spoke with Mayor Nancy McFarlane and have been in contact with other City Council members as well. (Mary-Ann Baldwin, Russ Stephenson, Bonner Gaylord, Thomas Crowder.) They're all scrambling to get information about why the police are suddenly barring church groups from giving out food to the homeless. There's more than one side to this — and meetings have been going on about it for some time between city agencies and the churches — but without the Council's involvement or, apparently, awareness. (It's yet another example of a part-time council trying to oversee a city administration that doesn't really welcome oversight.)"

8/25/2013 4:48:45 PM

KEEP YOUR JESUS BISCUITS OUT OF MY GOD DAMN PARK

8/25/2013 4:54:03 PM

theres 2 sides to this. 1 is the media blowing this up.

2 is the residents and visitors of moore sq part, of which its been mostly unusable for the past few years due to homeless and trash. Like they said, every monday morning the place is worse than a pig sty.

Even thought City Council is saying "oh we'll look into this" they ordered it. Theyve been getting tons of complaints from residents, visitors, and the businesses around it. Its not been public, but Marbles has even been quietly discussing about moving, as theres been some incidents with homeless and the kids they cater to.

Plus like RPD said, they are breaking both permitting laws for public gathering, food distribution, use of space, and Im sure others. And while they say they are cleaning up, the fact is every monday like I said above, the place is a mess, so add littering to that as well.

8/25/2013 4:54:34 PM

Quote :

"let the park be a park."

Yes, no cookouts in parks.

Quote :

"Or they could address the underlying issue and stop putting a bandaid on it. Giving handouts doesn't work."

Yes. Stop feeding the homeless. If we see people actually starving in the streets, maybe change will happen.

[Edited on August 25, 2013 at 5:13 PM. Reason : .]

8/25/2013 5:10:38 PM

or maybe we'll be rid of them.

8/25/2013 5:17:43 PM

Exactly.

8/25/2013 5:20:06 PM