Quote :

"I wouldn't bother with a Focus unless you're going to get a manual transmission. Their dual clutch 6 speed automatic is crap."

the ones that claim 40mpg? how so?

11/13/2013 8:56:45 AM

It just feels awful if it's the same one that's in the escape.

11/13/2013 9:03:44 AM

It shifts very harshly, not refined at all.

11/13/2013 9:39:42 AM

Have any of you guys had success selling a car on Craigslist?

other than expecting a bunch of lowball offers and someone "agreeing to a price" only to show up with X amount less in hand, which i've dealt with before, what other things should I keep in mind?

11/13/2013 10:25:14 AM

I sold my Dakota on c-list recently, was actually a decent experience. I confirmed my bottom dollar with each inquiry, and made it clear that I would take payment at a bank, in front of the notary.

It gets pretty hairy when someone wants cash money for an $xxxx vehicle and refuses to meet anywhere to complete the transaction.

11/13/2013 10:36:08 AM

someone convince me not to get a 2014 1500. used ones already on the market.

12/6/2013 9:47:04 AM

i don't even know what that is.

but don't buy one

12/6/2013 9:57:36 AM

i'm assuming it's a pickup truck

yup, chevy silverado 1500

12/6/2013 10:00:41 AM

^^you've never heard of a GMC/Chevy 1500 (Sierra/Silverado)?

12/6/2013 10:28:51 AM

Of course i have. But you didn't mention a make or model. Just a number.

12/6/2013 10:38:04 AM

12/6/2013 10:39:27 AM

Oh, you said 2014, my bad.

12/6/2013 10:57:30 AM

i was going to go look at some cars with my mom yesterday because she's in the market too. it was pouring down rain so i cancelled on her. she pushed on though and ended up driving home a new 14 Accord EXL

12/15/2013 11:44:21 AM

Quote :

"Have any of you guys had success selling a car on Craigslist? other than expecting a bunch of lowball offers and someone "agreeing to a price" only to show up with X amount less in hand, which i've dealt with before, what other things should I keep in mind? "

I sold my last two cars on Craigslist. I'm not an expert seller by any means, but I think all you need is common sense. Offer pretty high, but obviously be willing to go down a little bit. Buyers feel 10 times better if they can get even a little bit less than asking price. If you don't have a lot of other offers...lie. Someone would ask if the car was still available or ask to come by and see it, and I would always reply with a, "well I'm showing it to two people today, but I'll let you know if its still available." Or..."sorry, I've already got someone offering asking price, but I'll let you know if it falls through." You've got to let them know that it's in high demand.

Last thing I did was be 100% honest in my Craigslist post. On my first sale I talked about how the suspension was decent, but it definitely was loose on poor roads....that there were a few cracks in the leather, but it was pretty good for being 20 years old...stuff like that. The guy I sold it to said it was the most honest post he's ever seen for selling a car on craigslist and that he knew I wouldn't try to slide anything by him (then he told me some pretty ridiculous lies people try to get away with). He bought for full asking price (a couple hundred more than the KBB price). What that actually does is allow you to be lenient or let some things slide that might actually lower the price in the buyer's eyes. I try to include all the work done (w/ receipts) in the past few years as well.

That's about it. I've had my last three car transactions on craigslist and I've been 100% satisfied.

12/15/2013 12:16:40 PM

I did the same thing, described every issue and took a good picture of a scratch on the fender. I got my asking price in a week.

I also clearly stated the hours that it was available to be checked out and did not alter them, I assumed if they couldn't make my available time work then they weren't very serious.

12/15/2013 12:36:38 PM

i really like my mom's accord. it's really really nice. the guy from the dealership called me and said if i was interested he'd cut me the same deal

i'm just not sure if i'm ready to become an accord guy

12/17/2013 10:16:43 AM

My problem with them is that the distance from the steering wheel to the pedals is not far enough, so you have to be short to drive one

12/17/2013 10:29:19 AM

hmm, i didn't notice much of a problem last night. i'm about 6'1" and while i only drove about 20 miles it felt comfortable.

also had a bit more headroom than the TL (what I almost got before I bought the F150) which was a real deal breaker for that car.

12/17/2013 10:34:38 AM

I'm 6'3" and had to bend my knees a lot to comfortably reach the steering wheel

(in proper driving position you should be able to rest your wrist on the top of the steering wheel without leaning forward off of the seat)

12/17/2013 10:40:27 AM

ah ok. i'll play around with it more over the next few days and see how it feels.

12/17/2013 10:47:20 AM

what ever happened to the Mazda6?

12/17/2013 11:14:58 AM

mazda 6 is still an option.

Mazda 6
Ford Fusion Hybrid
Honda Accord


those are the 3 i'm kind of leaning towards. Also like the TSX Wagon, but they aren't nearly as loaded as the other 3.

12/17/2013 1:46:43 PM

oh okay that's cool. Regarding the TSX wagon what do you mean by "not loaded like the other 3"? IIRC it comes loaded already, only option being navigation.

12/17/2013 1:55:08 PM

well i was looking at the 13's which were missing a couple things that the 14 models of the other 3 had. only one that comes to mind at the moment was push start. Apples to apples it appears the TSX Wagon is close to $35k and is only 24-25 combined MPG

The Accord EXL+Nav I know i can get for $27.5k high 20's MPG

Mazda 6 Grand Touring looks to be right around $30k, but I could probably talk them down to match the Accord if I really like it.

Fusion is the oddball. I don't want the gas powered as it's low 20's MPG. They Hybrid is around $30-32 but the MPG seems to be averaging a LOT less than the posted 40.

The true winner in MPG seems to be the Mazda 6 with most owners recording an true 30+ MPG combined which is great.

12/17/2013 3:20:06 PM

I feel like I need to add the Jetta/Passat to my list as well.

12/18/2013 10:13:50 AM

how about the CC...i like the styling

12/18/2013 10:20:10 AM

i retract the VW thought. not a big fan of the interior at all.

^the CC looks really nice, but quickly gets out of my price range. Same thing with the Maxima.

12/18/2013 10:34:06 AM

Could you summarize again what exactly you are looking for? Seems like your wants/needs have drifted a bit from your OP, which is natural after test driving a wide variety of cars.

12/18/2013 10:37:29 AM

Carmax has a few CC's with under 20k miles for less than $20k (and Carmax prices are usually a few grand more than private party)

12/18/2013 10:40:48 AM

I suppose what's changed is that I've moved from the smaller sedans (Focus, Mazda 3) to the, i guess, mid-sized category.

The big factors still remain. I would like to have at least 26 MPG and a nice tech and interior package while staying around the $30k target.

12/18/2013 10:41:49 AM

So what's not to like about the Kia Optima? EX hits 27 MPG combined, SX turbo has 270 HP and still manages 24 combined (32 highway). Styiing is, to my eye, one of the best-looking midsizes. (New Fusion and 6 are both strong in the looks department too though). Panoramic sunroof is a very cool feature and you could probably walk out with a loaded SX turbo for close to, if not under, 30K (build feature on the site puts one with absolutely every option at 33.6 out the door). 100k warranty too.

12/18/2013 4:40:30 PM

if you want to look at the Ford Fusion, look at the Energi.

Have you looked at the Mazda 3 yet? I loved the hatchback look and roominess. And my first tank of gas just got me 37.6mpg real world. Its also nearly 10 grand less than the Mazda 6.

12/18/2013 8:51:37 PM

^^i agree that the Optima looks really good. I'm just not interested in it. A friend of mine leased one a few months ago and after a couple quick test drives it just wasn't for me. And it seems to be reporting much lower real world MPG than posted.

There is no perfect car out there. that's for sure.

12/19/2013 8:57:41 AM

I loved my Optima SX. It was loaded with everything (pano sunroof, heated rear seats) and really fun to drive. I would definitely give it another look.

12/19/2013 9:40:26 AM

Wonder how early on they are reporting those mileage #s. My Forte was getting lower MPG than advertised for the first 3-4 months I owned it, then it seemed to settle out and since then I get low 30's highway and mid 20's city as advertsed. Perhaps some form of extended break-in or somesuch?

12/19/2013 10:03:54 AM

TKE-Teg pointed me towards Fuelly.com to look at some real world MPG averages. Here is the 13 Optima http://www.fuelly.com/car/kia/optima/2013 just for an example.

12/20/2013 10:24:56 AM

I got a 2013 Fusion Hybrid Titanium back in June

I love it so far, but I'm def. not getting the 47 mpg number. It greatly depends on how fast you accelerate and how much you use the Climate settings.

On the way to work (about 4 miles), it's mostly downhill, and it's said that it averaged about 59 mpg on the trip, then on the way home, it'll say like 33 mpg the same day

12/21/2013 11:20:10 AM

what are you averaging from tank to tank (MPG)? how is the trunk space with the hybrid batteries?

12/21/2013 3:51:48 PM

I can go snap a pic of the trunk, it's obviously smaller than a non-hybrid, but it's better than I had feared. It wasn't a big deal to me personally though, because I never need to fill up a trunk for anything.

I was able to fit a Vizio 55" LED tv box in there with the seats folded down, there is about 36" of width if you have something that needs to slide forward into the backseat area w/ the seats down


the gauge screen tells me every time I turn the engine off about the lifetime averages (total EV miles, total brake regenerated miles, etc), and it's at about 36.8 mpg right now ... specs say the tank is about 13.5-14 gallons, I think whenever I fill up it says like 480 miles-to-empty, but it adjusts to your driving of course

A couple months into having the car (around September), Ford did a software upgrade to help improve the fuel economy, and it seems like it's helped a little, but that may have been close to when the weather was more neutral and I didn't use the climate as much

12/21/2013 4:48:04 PM

don't want to start a new thread because it's not that big a deal

my wife and i are thinking of getting rid of her car and getting a "new to us" car...my initial thought was a hatchback or wagon, though she has recently decided that a small SUV (escape, CR-V, etc) would work, too...we mostly want the ability to lay down the seats for more cargo area and/or to be able to put the dogs in the cargo space rather than the back seat like we currently do

i realize there's a lot of hate for small SUVs (they're just cars with worse gas mileage that can't tow anything and therefore do nothing well), but outside of wagons/hatchbacks, i don't see an alternative

budget is $15k or less...gas mileage and reliability trump style and performance, and we'd like a new-ish model (for example, we saw a 2007 CR-V that was "nice", but it was $15k and nearly 7 years old, so i wrote it off as unacceptable)

i'm leaning away from the japanese offerings because they're so expensive and it was my understanding that american and korean cars have really gotten better in recent years...but i haven't done much research, so it's not set in stone

thoughts? suggestions?

1/2/2014 10:02:33 AM

I'm partial to my fiancé's '12 Captiva (not sure if they are in your price range by now), however my favorite is the 1st gen Ford Escape.

1/2/2014 10:46:22 AM

^^ My buddy just went through a similar process and decided on an 05 (maybe 06) CRV with 91k miles and AWD for ~$10k OTD

1/2/2014 10:55:42 AM

^damn good deal

1/2/2014 11:25:10 AM

Do any of the compact hatches have enough space for you + dogs? IE Kia Forte hatch, Mazda 3 hatchback, etc, Honda Fit, etc. If so that's where you're going to get the best mileage.

Jetta wagon could also be a nice option--it's about the only small wagon that I can think of that isn't a Subaru. (the AWD on Subarus hits you on MPG, so if you don't need it, I'd pass)

Or perhaps one of the boxier hatchbacks like a Kia Soul or Scion XB would work for you?

1/2/2014 1:10:13 PM

we went to carmax yesterday just to poke around, see what the options are

Quote :

"I'm partial to my fiancé's '12 Captiva (not sure if they are in your price range by now), however my favorite is the 1st gen Ford Escape."

we test drove a 2013 escape...we were told that it was a substantial redesign, including different engine and transmission...the estimated MPG on the sticker was something like 24/32, so i could believe it

i haven't looked up the escape, though i recall thinking a lot of people thought the 1st gen was really crappy when they first came out...i'm certainly not opposed to a little research and checking a later version of the 1st gen, though, especially if we can find one that's a good deal

Quote :

"My buddy just went through a similar process and decided on an 05 (maybe 06) CRV with 91k miles and AWD for ~$10k OTD"

Quote :

"^damn good deal"

i assume the ridiculously high cost for such an old car is because it's a honda? admittedly, $10k doesn't seem THAT bad, especially with only 91k miles...but it's what, 9 years old?

we test drove a 2007 4WD CRV with ~79k miles yesterday and they had $15.5k on the sticker...granted, that's a stealership of sorts and so it's going to be higher than private party, but i just wasn't very impressed...boring interior, okay power, okay handling, okay features, okay everything (yes, i realize i said that reliability and mileage was more important than style and performance...i just thought that, for the price, i should be impressed with SOMETHING)

my 2002 saturn has nearly 200k miles and i bought it at 80k six years ago for $4k...with the exception of the A/C compressor and shifter cables needing to be replaced, it's been rock solid...i just can't believe that honda and toyota corner the market on reliability when my crappy saturn has done so well

small parts of my wife's toyota were easily twice as expensive as my saturn parts, too...i just don't get it

i'm not criticizing japanese quality or hondas/toyotas in general...i realize their reputation is likely well-earned...i just don't think i'm the kind of person to lay down that much money on a featureless, generic, old car with (comparatively) mediocre fuel economy and nothing to make it stand out past the maker badge

Quote :

"Do any of the compact hatches have enough space for you + dogs? IE Kia Forte hatch, Mazda 3 hatchback, etc, Honda Fit, etc. If so that's where you're going to get the best mileage. Jetta wagon could also be a nice option--it's about the only small wagon that I can think of that isn't a Subaru. (the AWD on Subarus hits you on MPG, so if you don't need it, I'd pass) Or perhaps one of the boxier hatchbacks like a Kia Soul or Scion XB would work for you?"

good questions...the fit looked too small, but the mazda 3 looked about the same as the focus (which makes sense, since they're the same car)...our dogs are only 45-50lbs, so they should fit in the back okay

not sure about the forte, as i haven't seen one in person, yet...i saw a hyundai elantra GT hatch at lunch that looked like it would be okay, as well

the jetta sportwagen seems surprisingly affordable...KBB/NADA suggests that a 2012 S-trim gasoline model with reasonable mileage is at the top of our budget...but i'm terrified of the reliability and the cost of fixing a VW when it breaks...i'm not very mechanically inclined, but i've done most of the work on my saturn because it's pretty easy and parts are cheap...am i worrying unnecessarily?

there was a subaru forester on the lot that looked decent, but it was pending a sale and so we couldn't test drive it

i appreciate all of the feedback...please correct any of my misconceptions or ignorance

[Edited on January 2, 2014 at 1:57 PM. Reason : .]

1/2/2014 1:55:01 PM

Quote :

"i haven't looked up the escape, though i recall thinking a lot of people thought the 1st gen was really crappy when they first came out...i'm certainly not opposed to a little research and checking a later version of the 1st gen, though, especially if we can find one that's a good deal "

I was thinking I've known several people who've been very happy with 1st-gen escapes. I've known 5 people at least with them, one of whom liked the model enough to have two of them. Perhaps the earlier ones were suspect but I think the later/refresh model was pretty solid.

Quote :

"the jetta sportwagen seems surprisingly affordable...KBB/NADA suggests that a 2012 S-trim gasoline model with reasonable mileage is at the top of our budget...but i'm terrified of the reliability and the cost of fixing a VW when it breaks...i'm not very mechanically inclined, but i've done most of the work on my saturn because it's pretty easy and parts are cheap...am i worrying unnecessarily? "

Are you planning this to be a "keep it until the wheels fall off" kind of car, or a "drive it for a few years and then update to something newer/better fitting our needs at the time?" kind of car. If the former, then a VW is probably not for you. If the latter, and you get one within a couple years old, then you'd probably be fine. They're nice though.

1/2/2014 4:48:52 PM

^ i'll take a look at some of the refreshed 1st gen escapes, then

and i'm definitely a drive-it-until-the-wheels-fall-off kind of person

1/3/2014 8:36:00 AM

Quote :

"i assume the ridiculously high cost for such an old car is because it's a honda? admittedly, $10k doesn't seem THAT bad, especially with only 91k miles...but it's what, 9 years old?"

Sure. Hondas have a proven record of reliability (especially the CRVs), and even though it's 7-8 years old, that thing is probably going to last another 7-8 years+ with no/very little issues.

Quote :

"granted, that's a stealership of sorts"

My buddies was purchased from Leith

Quote :

"boring interior, okay power, okay handling, okay features, okay everything (yes, i realize i said that reliability and mileage was more important than style and performance...i just thought that, for the price, i should be impressed with SOMETHING...i just don't think i'm the kind of person to lay down that much money on a featureless, generic, old car with (comparatively) mediocre fuel economy and nothing to make it stand out past the maker badge"

Do you want something super reliable or do you want something fun with lots of cool features. The two rarely come together, especially in your price range. If you don't wanna pay the premium for japanese reliability then this might be a good place for you to start, given you want reliable: https://www.google.com/search?q=most+reliable+american+cars

Quote :

"the jetta sportwagen seems surprisingly affordable...KBB/NADA suggests that a 2012 S-trim gasoline model with reasonable mileage is at the top of our budget"

It's surprisingly affordable because everyone is "terrified of the reliability and the cost of fixing a VW when it breaks." I had a number of issues with my 1-2 year old 07 GTI. Don't trust the things.

Quote :

"but the mazda 3 looked about the same as the focus (which makes sense, since they're the same car)"

Are they still the "same car" though (like a Matrix/Vibe)? Were they ever the "same car" with same dimensions etc or simply based on the same platform?

Quote :

"and i'm definitely a drive-it-until-the-wheels-fall-off kind of person"

With most any car you're considering you'll wanna read through the manufacturer specific forums out there to figure out any common issues they might have.

Quote :

"i haven't looked up the escape, though i recall thinking a lot of people thought the 1st gen was really crappy when they first came out...i'm certainly not opposed to a little research and checking a later version of the 1st gen, though, especially if we can find one that's a good deal"

Yeah do some checking. My impression is that they're fairly reliable (but not like a CRV )

Quote :

"small parts of my wife's toyota were easily twice as expensive as my saturn parts, too...i just don't get it"

I would have guessed parts for an older american car are going to be cheaper than a newer japanese car.

[Edited on January 3, 2014 at 10:13 AM. Reason : link]

1/3/2014 10:10:28 AM

Quote :

"Are they still the "same car" though (like a Matrix/Vibe)? Were they ever the "same car" with same dimensions etc or simply based on the same platform?"

The current Focus and new Mazda3 definitely do not share a platform anymore. Not sure about the last gen Mazda3 though.

1/3/2014 10:51:11 AM

I thought that's backwords I thought the Mazda was the euro focus and our focus was 1 gen behind but now they are all the same gen chassis.

1/3/2014 11:11:07 AM