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3/10/2014 11:19:25 AM

what if we drop leggings/clothes for now and talk about staring at features that a person can't control. is it still offensive to stare if some chick has disproportionate earlobes? should she wear earmuffs to cover them up?

3/10/2014 11:32:23 AM

I think "staring" of "ogling" is always offensive. But curiosity/looking is human nature.

3/10/2014 11:35:05 AM

"Just because I have this huge swastika on my shirt doesn't mean I want to be stared at!"

3/10/2014 12:12:24 PM

"I'm willfully ignorant because a woman was stupid this one time!"

3/10/2014 12:18:41 PM

bridget wears sheer tights constantly, to compliment her smiley face thong

3/10/2014 12:26:17 PM

so it's only sexual harassment if the guy is ugly?

it's cool to wear a revealing top that shows off tits or skin tight yoga pants that show off camel toe up until the point an ugly creeper looks/notices. if the guy is good looking/rich/the woman's type, it's totally fine, but otherwise the guy is a jerk for even having the nerve to let his eye balls focus on the woman like she's some wanton sex pot.

it all makes sense now!

3/10/2014 12:27:34 PM

it's just rude to stare at people

men or women

a woman should be allowed to wear what she wants without being stared at like a sex object

Quote :

"There's probably nothing women can do to stop gawkers. The level of skin shown only changes the relative amount of gawking, but there will always be gawking."

I dress pretty conservatively and I'll still notice a guy staring at my boobs although I'm wearing a high-necked shirt and sweater

I think if you guys understood what it's like to be looked at and devalued in that way, you'd also dislike it

3/10/2014 1:09:05 PM

lol feminists

3/10/2014 1:10:30 PM

^, ^^. Don't you have pretty sizable knockers? That might have something to do with the guys staring.

[Edited on March 10, 2014 at 1:12 PM. Reason : Fuck it. Both of you...]

3/10/2014 1:11:32 PM

^^^^You obviously have a fine grasp on certain women's pretenses when they make claims of discomfort. However, there are a lot of things in our society--that have nothing to do with gender--that are total bullshit. The fact that you get so upset about this one thing is a bit telling.

And it's still pretty simple:

1. Staring at anyone for any reason is rude.
2. Be polite.

I personally really dislike it when women flaunt lots of flesh, especially the larger ladies. And it's not cause I can't handle an ample bosom in my face. It's the comments I'm gonna have to hear from everybody else about it. Put on some clothes, ladies--my companions are about to make my eyes roll out of my skull.

^^^^^ I have never worn a sheer garment. And I have only gone ASS CITY in my leggings one time--my friend swore it was fine, and it was not. I do go way too short on skirts and shorts, but it's cause I enjoy cultivating a legendary tan each summer. It's awesome. Women of all ages and races stop me on the sidewalk to admire my legs and lavish me with praise. I'm not exaggerating; it's gratuitous and frivolous, and I love it. But dudes get uppity.

[Edited on March 10, 2014 at 1:12 PM. Reason : ]

3/10/2014 1:11:58 PM

lol feminists

3/10/2014 1:12:22 PM

Quote :

"a woman should be allowed to wear what she wants without being stared at like a sex object"

stop being sexist, just because someone is staring doesn't mean that they are viewing someone as a sex object. men are more than penises, despite what sitcoms tell you we do have functioning brains.


haha, men are dumb. men can't cook. men ogle women. men don't understand menstruation. men only think about sex. etc...

[Edited on March 10, 2014 at 1:18 PM. Reason : .]

3/10/2014 1:16:03 PM

Quote :

"t's just rude to stare at people men or women a woman should be allowed to wear what she wants without being stared at like a sex object "

why wear something that's going to elicit stares? attention maybe? nah, that can't be it. women who dress like sex workers just want to feel comfortable and not have anyone notice. riiiiiiiiight

i'm waiting for the rape culture argument now

and before you label me as a sexist pig, i'll let you know that it makes ME uncomfortable when some of my 18 year old college students dress like absolute whores and i have to constantly look away when i'm talking to them. i guess my feelings don't matter.

[Edited on March 10, 2014 at 1:25 PM. Reason : double standards]

3/10/2014 1:22:03 PM

time for that ol' 'if you don't want to be stereotyped, don't engage in stereotypical behavior' trope to come out.


poor objectified men. I promise to see you as more than gonads with paychecks from here on out

3/10/2014 1:22:46 PM

3/10/2014 1:24:29 PM

young women conform to the male gaze because society expects them to, and they've been indoctrinated to do what society expects of them. shocking, isn't it? At least your own self-worth isn't tied up in how good you look in spandex pants-- much less your extrinsic value.

3/10/2014 1:28:41 PM

yes, it's society's collective fault

now please stop dressing like whores and then complaining when people treat you like sex objects. and please tell your slutty friends they are making the problem worse for everyone.

3/10/2014 1:30:28 PM

So, what if these women feel empowered when they dress like skanks, and like the attention that they get?

3/10/2014 1:31:23 PM

they aren't the ones complaining though

3/10/2014 1:32:16 PM

GREEN JAY is claiming that a person should be allowed to wear whatever they want and no one should be allowed to stare

that's false

(and it also incorrectly assume that all stares are due to sexual obectification)

3/10/2014 1:33:43 PM

They're still not obliged to lavish sexual attention on anyone. and men who are rejected in the first 0.33 seconds of eye contact who persist in staring do so with a desire for revenge and to intimidate.

[Edited on March 10, 2014 at 1:35 PM. Reason : actually, i never claimed that. I only posted in response to your claim that men are objectified]

3/10/2014 1:35:17 PM

it's rude to reject someone

3/10/2014 1:36:16 PM

^^lol

[Edited on March 10, 2014 at 1:37 PM. Reason : ]

3/10/2014 1:37:09 PM

OMG it's impolite to stare.
OMG it's impolite to dress like a whore.
OMG men stare at everything anyway!!1

Seems to me the easiest solution would be not to dress like a whore, since there would be less to stare at, but let's just continue to place all the blame on men since it's all their fault!

3/10/2014 1:37:16 PM

no one has a right to not have people look at them when in a public place, and not all looks are sexual

GREEN JAY is parroting a false narrative that all men are mindless animals operating only to view women as sexual objects and have as much sex as possible

[Edited on March 10, 2014 at 1:37 PM. Reason : .]

3/10/2014 1:37:24 PM

I just want to send one "schwing" in BigMan157's direction. And a "hubba hubba" for EMCE.

3/10/2014 1:46:52 PM

I have no clue why I am now getting lumped in with women that get unwanted sexual attention for wearing slutty clothes. you obviously don't know much about me.


Why are you equating legality and politesse? Sure men have the right to stare down some chick's moose knuckle from a thousand yards. That doesn't change the fact that they are effectively forcing their sexual interest on someone who would rather be signing up for an autobuy plan from an Amway rep. And that makes them boors. Fuck pushy people of all kinds.

3/10/2014 1:47:41 PM

lol @ the hyperbolic accusations

3/10/2014 1:49:22 PM

Quote :

" stare down some chick's moose knuckle from a thousand yards. That doesn't change the fact that they are effectively forcing their sexual interest "

how do you know it has anything to do with sexual interests? why are you assuming that men aren't capable of anything else except thinking about sex? staring does not mean sexual interest.

3/10/2014 1:55:00 PM

i believe in equality so in exchange for me staring at women, i'll allow them to stare at me.

3/10/2014 1:58:54 PM

maybe men stare because we can't fathom how any woman would want to leave the house looking like a sex worker.

3/10/2014 2:02:22 PM

What about when you're in the gym?

3/10/2014 2:03:02 PM

GREEN JAY thinks men are all



but really its mostly



and often



and even girls give looks like



[Edited on March 10, 2014 at 2:11 PM. Reason : .]

3/10/2014 2:10:06 PM

Since they're apparently so copious, could you please go over the scenarios where you feel like staring at someone's body parts for a long period of time OTHER than you like the way they look?


1. You find them unattractive to the point of fascination. Rude. And why look at something that clearly causes you discomfort?
2. You hope that they will notice you so that you can convey... some opinion you have regarding their appearance. Like disapproval? Your opinion and your asshole both stink, keep them to yourselves (or covered by a semi-opaque layer of fabric).
3. they remind you of someone. that's cool, but you don't have to keep looking at them while you think about the person you know, cuz that's, uh, awkward.

I think people A) mind their own business whenever possible and B) should strive to keep interactions with strangers positive. If you genuinely appreciate something about them and just want them to know that, use your words, johnny. A heartfelt compliment, for which you're expecting nothing in return, will do the trick without sending any mixed messages. And just so we're clear, addressing someone holistically is a compliment. Addressing a portion of their anatomy is harassment, and so is making prolonged eye contact to express disdain and superiority.


And just so you know, there is legal precedent for confrontational, non-sexual staring in to be considered a form of sexual harassment, in a 2001 California case. If it's not considered that in the street, it is because the woman has the chance to get away from her harasser. such a difference.

Quote :

"An opinion issued on October 9, 2001 by a California court has declared that staring, even in a non-sexually suggestive manner, can constitute sexual harassment. In Birschstein v. New United Motor Manufacturing, an employee complained to her manager that a male co-worker was making unwanted sexual advances, sharing sexual fantasies about her and following her around the workplace. After the co-worker´s manager warned him to leave the female employee alone, the co-worker never spoke to the employee again. Instead, he began staring at her several times each day. Uncomfortable with the staring, and unsatisfied with the employer´s response to her complaints, the employee filed a lawsuit. The trial court initially dismissed the claims against the co-worker and the employer because it believed that simple staring could not create a sufficiently hostile work environment to justify liability. The Court of Appeal, however, disagreed and issued a strong opinion permitting the case to go to a jury. The Court found the staring to be intimidating and retaliatory behavior, which was directed at the employee because she was a woman. Thus, coupled with the prior unwanted sexual advances, the female employee was entitled to have a jury decide her case."

http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/opinions/documents/A090680.PDF

3/10/2014 2:22:58 PM

sometimes girls have clever sayings written on their t-shirts but then get pissy when i stop to read them

3/10/2014 2:25:49 PM

are you talking about 12 year olds?

3/10/2014 2:29:13 PM

no.

3/10/2014 2:29:42 PM

Sometimes I'll wear a shirt that needs reading or a closer glance and I'm expected to stop and display it without taking offense while they stare fixedly at my pectoral area.

I notice the same is not true or considered kosher for women in similar situations.

3/10/2014 2:30:24 PM

Quote :

"And just so you know, there is legal precedent for confrontational, non-sexual staring in to be considered a form of sexual harassment, in a 2001 California case. If it's not considered that in the street, it is because the woman has the chance to get away from her harasser. such a difference. "

no, the difference is that one was a retaliatory action. read the decision, the staring alone wasn't enough to be harassment but was only harassment when paired with the prior harassment because it was retaliatory.

is it reasonable for me to not expect looks and stares if i dress like this:

or this:

of course not. if i wore either of those outfits out i would get stared at. that doesn't mean that staring wouldn't necessarily be rude, only that it is a reasonable, predictable expected response.

3/10/2014 2:41:35 PM

it sounds like some women itt are arguing that women (or men) should be able to walk around completely naked and noone should give them a second glance. which is, of course, ridiculous.

[Edited on March 10, 2014 at 2:45 PM. Reason : ]

3/10/2014 2:45:41 PM

^^I don't stare at people dressed like that. I glance, acknowledge it in my head, and mind my business. It's the cool thing to do, guys.

People smell like piss, have bad cold sores on their mouths, got neck tats poking out their dress shirt, tats on their face, limps, shakes, mohawks, pants falling down, blue hair, striped socks up to their thighs, missing teeth, anxiety, mania, botched face lifts, intoxication, crazy long nails, political slogans on their chest, Mickey Mouse ears, furry tails... It doesn't faze me to the point I gotta gawk at it.

Sometimes, they even talk to me, and I just chat it up. Smile. Be polite. I don't take a pic and start texting everybody about how you'll never guess what I saw today!!!

[Edited on March 10, 2014 at 3:03 PM. Reason : I do admire asses though. Asses may get a second glance.]

3/10/2014 2:59:05 PM

Conveniently, GREEN JAY still continues to ignore this:

Quote :

"i'll let you know that it makes ME uncomfortable when some of my 18 year old college students dress like absolute whores and i have to constantly look away when i'm talking to them. i guess my feelings don't matter."

3/10/2014 2:59:23 PM

I go out of my way to not look at (or god forbid make eye contact with) anyone dressed like an asshole because they are also crazy probably.

3/10/2014 3:01:32 PM

^naked well they can in San Francisco! but you have to bring a towel to sit on.

^dtown point taken about the prior history of harassment, but I still posit that the thousand yard stare by rejected men is retaliatory and meant as intimidation.

And quite frankly neither of those outfits are interesting enough or controversial enough to merit stare-downs. maybe if you wore some leggings.



^hot 18 year olds... I guess I don't understand what it's like to be captive to your arousal. Maybe you should keep in mind that they are basically children trying to shock society and have compassion for their fragile self-esteems. Some schools have a dress code, maybe you could consider switching if it is an extreme distraction. I have no problem with people choosing to follow a dress code at a school they chose to go to, but trying to enforce it on the general populace is fruitless. Bottom line: you, and no one else, are responsible for your emotions. Grow as a person and learn to control them.

[Edited on March 10, 2014 at 3:11 PM. Reason : ]

3/10/2014 3:02:31 PM

i would totally rock those leggings

3/10/2014 3:07:28 PM

Quote :

"well they can in San Francisco! but you have to bring a towel to sit on. "

interestingly enough, even hippie dippie SF has recently voted to outlaw nudity- even in the Castro! nobody should be FORCED to see ugly naked people in the streets.

3/10/2014 3:09:57 PM

but beautiful ones would be fine, amirite?

nobody owes you beauty, or a smile, or a coffee date, or chastity. y'all motherfuckers are entitled.

3/10/2014 3:23:11 PM

I was reading discussions around the time of that decision. At some point everyone got used to the nudists and so the nudists started wearing cock rings and other "jewelry" when they weren't getting reactions. They were basically exhibitionists who wanted attention.

(I'm not trying to equate SF nudists to women who wear leggings/yoga pants)

3/10/2014 3:25:42 PM

i'm confused here, what is the argument?

3/10/2014 3:25:54 PM