I'm not gonna cry over this scum in this particular case getting the needle, but: 1) it'll take 20 years and $$$$ spent before he gets it due to all the appeals and 2) not everyone who gets sentenced to death is guilty

4/4/2014 5:30:51 PM

And that's a larger problem with the death penalty that needs to be examined. But I don't think his guilt is even disputed., in this case. This is about as ideal as it gets for capital punishment advocates. Its a case that really resonates with people and gives them chills... And there's no doubt about his guilt.

4/4/2014 5:33:46 PM

Quote :

"the same thing can be said about life imprisonment, he can't get out..."

...except when they do. They haven't invented the escape-proof prison. People get out and do bad things. Politicians get worried about costs and release prisoners who do bad things. Not an issue in this case, but plenty of people in prison direct bad things from within their cells, life sentence or no. To say nothing about the kind of mischief you can get into while in prison.

Some crimes merit a guarantee. A statement of, "We can't control much, but we can damn sure control whether this asshole ever does anything again." I'd say this crime applies.

All of this is academic, of course. Unless something changed I didn't hear about, NC has a de facto moratorium on the death penalty because the local AMA -- a bunch of unelected, self-righteous pricks -- said they wouldn't participate in executions anymore, while our wildly right-wing legislature has managed to pass every damnfool thing under the sun except for a law that says we don't need an AMA-certified doctor in the death chamber. One reason I intend to vote democrat, and hard, next election.

4/4/2014 5:41:10 PM

I'm just glad we're all getting an opportunity to posture about how sad and angry we are while continuing to do nothing about the conditions that lead to child abuse.

RIP MY LITTLE ANGEL, TEGHAN!

LOL

4/4/2014 5:41:27 PM

How is it, exactly, that you know what we do or do not do to about those conditions? Just curious.

4/4/2014 5:44:40 PM

and what is it that you don't think we're doing that we should be doing?

4/4/2014 5:45:37 PM

^4 GrumpyLIB doesn't sound right.

But name a modern escape from prisons classified as a "super max". Maybe that's the type of prison death row inmates should go to? Sit in your cell for 23 hours a day, get an hour in a confined cage outside.

(Playing devils advocate, I hope they fry this fucker sooner than later)

[Edited on April 4, 2014 at 5:47 PM. Reason : .]

4/4/2014 5:47:18 PM

^^^,^^LOL, sorry, guys, I didn't mean to accuse anyone in particular.

But collectively this is what we do as a society. We have communal purges wherein we condemn some "evil" man in an effort to reinforce the notion that our society is good and righteous when clearly it is not.

4/4/2014 5:59:16 PM

Quote :

"But name a modern escape from prisons classified as a "super max"."

The beautiful thing about being in an African village is that my googling abilities are limited. I can post on TWW fine, as long as I don't click threads with big pictures in them, but searches are hard. So I can't hunt up any names for you. I do remember those boys from Denver maybe ten years ago or a little less who killed some people in their escape. And I recently found out that James Earl Ray -- who shot MLK Jr -- was a repeat escapee.

But here are the facts. An escape-proof prison (or something acceptably close to it) probably can be built. I don't think they can be built in adequate numbers to house the relevant population, especially since each state would require one on top of the Federal system. So Supermax or better prisons aren't really a viable solution. The American people, even with their eroding support for the death penalty, would rather fry somebody than throw millions at new prison construction or improvements.

Even if they could build really ideal prisons, I would say at most that we should severely restrict the death penalty. There are some potential inmates who pose too much of a threat and have too much of a demonstrated history of organizing mayhem and manipulating people. A classic example from history would be Goering, who probably got a guard to sneak him a poison pill. More recently, what if we'd caught Osama and tried him? I, for one, am not willing to risk that every guard who ever works his block would be immune to his charms. Fry his ass crispy and feed it to the fish.

But I'll take it to the extreme end. Let's say, hypothetically, we could imprison each individual with a high risk potential on an asteroid with a little farm and no possibility of ever escaping or contacting another human being, at all, for real. If that were the case, and if it were cheaper to do so than to execute them, I would oppose capital punishment as a matter of policy. I would still yearn for it to happen because, you know, fuck 'em, but I would not advocate it. Unlike plenty of people on both sides I am able to sublimate my emotional response in favor of what makes sense.

4/4/2014 6:03:07 PM

On a purely rational level, I'm pro-death penalty, but I'm pretty lukewarm about it, and I'm pretty much exactly lined up with GrumpyGOP...and yeah, BridgetSPK makes a good point about everyone chipping in to break these cycles (although sometimes, with crazy fucks like this guy, giving them a break from junior isn't gonna help.)


Now, all of that said...ohhhh, what I would give to put this motherless fuck's head in a vise, Casino-style, and kill him with my hammer drill and a spade bit, over the course of a couple days.

4/4/2014 6:55:55 PM

Yes, yes, we all wish we could torture him to death in such fashion as makes "Saw" look like a kids' movie, but let's focus...on writing our representatives and demanding a return of the death penalty to NC, at least for this case.

4/4/2014 7:09:05 PM

I'm no longer a NC resident, so I can't help you there.

...but if you're writing anyway, can you get them to pull some strings so I can push the plungers?

4/4/2014 7:11:32 PM

You put an NC address on your correspondence and they'll listen. Hell, I ain't even resident in the western hemisphere.

4/4/2014 7:14:56 PM

isn't it pretty clear that he's sick in the head?

and so does he deserve your ire or your pity?

i've never gotten a suitable answer to this question

4/4/2014 7:16:52 PM

Definitely ire.

Maybe pity as a result of his upbringing and psychological afflictions, but certainly none for anything he has coming to him as a result of the appalling actions that he took.

Now would ya grab the torch for me so we can heat the bit up first?

4/4/2014 7:25:06 PM

Everyone who commits any antisocial behavior is sick in the head. We can blame environment or genetics. Either way, we can say it isn't "their fault." I think I've offered a very clear answer here, which is that nobody should give a fuck.

I don't care if they're retarded, juveniles, on drugs, "crazy" (of course you're crazy if you commit premeditated murder), poor, come from a shitty family, or whatever. The questions are:

1) Did they commit a crime?
2) Is it serious?

If yes to those, then:

1) Do the traits of the perpetrator, the crime, and the circumstances surrounding the crime indicate a likelihood of recidivism?
2) Is it possible, within reason, that the perpetrator will be able to commit or direct similar crimes from prison? (Mostly this refers to previous gang/organized crime activity)
3) Do the traits of the perpetrator indicate a likely threat to corrections officers?
4) Is there anything to indicate a tendency to escaping?

If you answer "yes" to both of the first two questions and also to any of the subsequent four, we should execute the person. You can pity them while you do it, you can hate them, I don't give a shit.

4/4/2014 7:29:38 PM

Quote :

"of course you're crazy if you commit premeditated murder"

Eh, there are a few people whom I think murdering the shit out of would be completely rational and not even slightly crazy. I don't do it, because it's tough to get away with shit these days, and regardless, I wouldn't want to live life looking over my shoulder.

...but if I knew beyond any shadow of a doubt that I would never be prosecuted or sued for it, there would be some dead motherfuckers.

4/4/2014 7:34:10 PM

The death-penalty is objectively barbaric, and many other countries have already gotten away with it. I don't see, considering the context of the other aspects of our criminal justice system, how someone could argue that its existence is necessary because of controlling bad people; it only exists for emotional reasons.

But emotion is a big part of humans, and I understand why it exists in our society. It doesn't make it less barbaric, but i'm happy that support for it is diminishing. Too many innocent people have been executed by the government under the guise of the death penalty, even though some people did most definitely deserve it.

4/4/2014 7:35:17 PM

^^^
i understand your stance on the death penalty. i was referring to the torture that many people have expressed interest in.

if you say it isn't their fault (and the degree of faultedess is up for debate), why would you want to torture them?

that's the kind of thinking that continues this cycle imo

[Edited on April 4, 2014 at 7:38 PM. Reason : .]

4/4/2014 7:37:30 PM

Quote :

"if you say it isn't their fault (and the degree of faultedess is up for debate), why would you want to torture them?"

I want to fuck the shit out of Jennifer Love Hewitt. I know, she's not so much a spring chicken anymore; maybe it's just that she was becoming really popular about when I hit puberty, or maybe because she looked a lot like this girl I had a crush on, in the face if not the chest. I would, at least as a single man, have wished to screw her until my dick was beyond saving, at which point I would strap my dick to a board to fuck her some more. She has no desire to fuck me, and so it would be illegal and wrong for me to fuck her. I would never ever consider doing so under these circumstances, but it's nice to think about. She didn't do anything in particular to deserve my desire to have sex with her. It just is what it is.

I'm not trying to draw some sexual parallel to killing people -- I hope that's obvious -- but the point is that everyone has impulses that they suppress because that's what civilization demands. My gut, my reptilian brain -- the same low-level corner of the amygdala or whatever -- instinctively wants to do awful shit to this guy, shit that isn't legal or right. I can't and I shouldn't, so I push that down to some manageable place -- the same thing you do with some impulses, almost certainly including sexual ones. I don't come in here and claim that your desire to fuck [insert name here] continues the cycle of rape, because it doesn't. It is a necessary condition for that cycle but it isn't sufficient.

4/4/2014 7:47:50 PM

But you don't want to rape Jennifer Love-Hewitt. You want consensual sex (I'd assume??). So there's not anything wrong with that.

I get what you're trying to say, however there's a difference between harboring that feeling internally (which is unhealthy in and of itself) and expressing it publicly, as if it should be normal.

But yeah everyone has "wrong" inner urges. My argument is mainly for people who think it's rational to act out on this one.

[Edited on April 4, 2014 at 8:28 PM. Reason : .]

4/4/2014 8:17:01 PM

No, he's definitely saying he wants to rape Jennifer Love Hewitt.

And it's awesome and hilarious.

LOL

4/4/2014 9:24:43 PM

It depends upon what the meaning of the word 'is' 'wants' is.

4/4/2014 10:27:07 PM

Let's all confess stuff to make it less weird.

I wanna watch GrumpyGOP rape JLH and then put his wiener in my mouth.

Totally normal impulse!

4/4/2014 10:51:03 PM

loooooool

4/4/2014 10:52:10 PM

4/4/2014 11:01:52 PM

hahhaha, what in the fucking fuck is going on in here?

[Edited on April 4, 2014 at 11:23 PM. Reason : ]

4/4/2014 11:14:00 PM

DAYS

4/5/2014 12:44:16 AM

So people that harbor torture fantasies also harbor rape fantasies. Interesting.

4/5/2014 4:30:53 AM

This thread got really awkward over night.

4/5/2014 7:10:23 AM

Yes it did.

4/5/2014 8:24:12 AM

whole lot of assumptions and broad generalizations being tossed around

a fine foundation for any rational discussion

4/5/2014 8:35:43 AM

Quote :

"I get what you're trying to say, however there's a difference between harboring that feeling internally (which is unhealthy in and of itself) and expressing it publicly, as if it should be normal. "

Then I wish you would have just said that instead of opening the rape can of worms that Bridget is gobbling so eagerly.

Why should we keep things like this to ourselves, especially when we know that so many people feel the same way? TheDuke could rest assured he would find people sympathetic to his desire to torture this guy. I can rest assured that none of us are actually going to torture this guy, or anybody else. In fact I can be reasonably confident that we aren't feeding some "cycle," because there is not a rash of people brutally torturing child murderers. (Well, OK, maybe there is among prisoners, but I think we got a LOT more issues there than non-prisoners on an internet forum)

4/5/2014 10:09:24 AM

Dude, I totally closed the can for you.

And you just opened it up again.

4/5/2014 11:24:09 AM