Quote :

"I wonder if HUR has ever stopped to think about how humiliating it must be to actually use food stamps."

Last time I checked paying with foodstamps is no different than using one's debit card.

Quote :

"here are labels all over the grocery store in CA saying what qualifies as WIC. "

WIC is a totally different program and for WIC there are specific guidlines on what you can and can not buy.

With WIC SODA is not allowed.

Quote :

"I also enjoy the fact that this ban would magically prevent all the diabeetuz and fatness. Not allowing beer/cigs sure has stopped those vices in the poor!"

The difference being that my tax $ is paying for beer/cigs unless they are on welfare also. That though is to difficult
to sort out. Food stamps is simple. If Uncle Sam is giving you money to feed your family then you should be buying
food not fucking soda....

Quote :

"to make sure poor people don't have access to soda"

No one is saying that poor people can't have soda. They just may have to use some money that would otherwise be
going to their iPhone5 to buy their coveted soda instead of tax payer money that should be used for food.

I was under the impression too that most people on foodstamps have a job...

6/5/2014 1:53:36 PM

Quote :

"the loud lady in line with an iPhone and a car parked outside with rims is a pretty common conservative trope"

she had rims too? No wonder why she's poor. I bet her five kids from four dads are going to end up in jail.

[Edited on June 5, 2014 at 1:55 PM. Reason : .]

6/5/2014 1:54:34 PM

Quote :

"No one is saying that poor people can't have soda. They just may have to use some money that would otherwise be going to their iPhone5 to buy their coveted soda instead of tax payer money that should be used for food."

unless she is buying an iPhone every month, that iPhone doesn't make a difference for how much food she can afford. you know this, but will keep trotting out the rude iPhone lady because you are a sheep and have fallen for the welfare queen distraction.

I'd be fine with not allowing soda to be purchased, but if I was a legislator I would only vote for that if the proponents agreed to vote on my bill to end corn subsidies or my bill to tax or ban sodas for everyone

6/5/2014 2:02:56 PM

I really was buying a beer at a convenience store before playing disk golf.

The woman in front of me was buying soda and cookies for her 3 kidswith foodstamps, proceeded to put $50 of gas to pump # (which had a Suburban with rim), and $20 on lottery tickets.

Quote :

"iPhone doesn't make a difference for how much food she can afford. you know this, but will keep trotting out the rude iPhone lady because you are a sheep and have fallen for the welfare queen distraction"

Someone else brought the whole iPhone thing up before my post that contained it.

I agree with eliminating corn subsidies and for taxing all sodas with a "fat tax".

The point of this thread is SODA IS NOT FUCKING FOOD AND HAS NO NUTRITIONAL VALUE thus I support eliminating the ability of folks to purchase it with food stamps. I really think Eighty-Four is trolling.

[Edited on June 5, 2014 at 2:05 PM. Reason : l]

6/5/2014 2:03:20 PM

Quote :

"Last time I checked paying with foodstamps is no different than using one's debit card. "

Nope, that would be EBT.

http://dcentric.wamu.org/2011/05/snap-wic-ebt-whats-the-difference/

Enlighten yourself.

6/5/2014 2:03:40 PM

Quote :

" I really think Eighty-Four is trolling. "

Eighty-Four is not the only one making fun of you

6/5/2014 2:06:18 PM

Per the article ^^

Quote :

"The goal of the program is to help recipients maintain healthy diets by making relatively expensive items like fresh fruits and vegetables accessible to those with low incomes. "

So please rationalize for me how/why one should be able to buy Soda with SNAP dollars when the purpose of said program is to help recipients maintain healthy diets.

I have yet to hear an argument supporting the continuing allowance for one to buy Soda with money from this program; everything seems to be a Red Herring about the plight of poor people and/or one should be allowed to buy soda.

[Edited on June 5, 2014 at 2:09 PM. Reason : a]

6/5/2014 2:08:13 PM

^^^^but but, the conservative trope

Maybe its happening more than you lefties want to admit. Maybe you just don't pay attention.

And I agree, lets educate people on how to better manage their money. But if I were to suggest something like required personal finance courses for anyone on any type of public assistance, I'd be hating poor people or assuming poor people or stupid, or something.

[Edited on June 5, 2014 at 2:09 PM. Reason : adsfa]

6/5/2014 2:08:34 PM

^ agreed

BTW

Quote :

"Electronic Benefits Transfer cards are a federally-funded payment option offered at participating stores. SNAP distributes funds for purchasing food via EBT cards. EBT cards are more dicreet because of their"

technically i was not incorrect by grouping foodstamps/SNAP/EBT together.

[Edited on June 5, 2014 at 2:11 PM. Reason : aa]

6/5/2014 2:10:09 PM

no, i think most people would agree with including personal finance included in mandatory education

in fact the new common core standards included personal finance

and conservatives opposed it

6/5/2014 2:11:28 PM

if you want to ban soda, which i support, please show how your proposed plan would address the following:

IMPLICATIONS OF RESTRICTING THE USE OF FOOD STAMP BENEFITS - SUMMARY
http://www.fns.usda.gov/sites/default/files/arra/FSPFoodRestrictions.pdf
-No clear standards exist for defining foods as good or bad, or healthy or not healthy.
-Implementation of food restrictions would increase program complexity and costs.
-Restrictions may be ineffective in changing the purchases of food stamp participants
-No evidence exists that food stamp participation contributes to poor diet quality or obesity.

if you read the report they even list some different ways that food could be rated, so you can just list which one you would use or propose another

6/5/2014 2:14:13 PM

No, I said mandatory for those on public assistance.

But I also agree that everyone should have it. However you don't need the feds telling us to take the classes via common core. The states should be pushing it out.

My problem with a personal finance course in high school is that those little shits won't know what their learning. For the most part, they are still under their parent's tutelage and whatever they learn won't sink in.

6/5/2014 2:16:02 PM

^^^ because that's exactly what you're doing, by making it required. Makes it optional, free, easily available, and get the social workers to push it for those that need it. And make bankers and ceos and small businesses and students going to public colleges who suck at the gov teat take the same classes with the poor people.

I had a friend, doing his masters in nuclear engineering, was a grad ta (they make squat) and had a wife and infant. They had to use food stamps and wic until he graduated.

Had another friend who had a degree in English, was living with his mom who was just a teachers assistant, and they got food from a food bank to make ends meet for the time being. Both people are out of this situation now, but these situations are more characteristic of people on public assistance.

The idea that people on public assistance are scum deserving of scorn is a sick propaganda effort conservative politicians have used to fool conservative voters, that plays on middle class biases and experiences.

Most people here likely live comfortable upper/middle class lives, without really realizing we are in a bubble, and the majority of Americans have more difficult lives than us. when we see poor people on COPS or the able bodied homeless we project these images onto the mythical welfare recipient in political discussions, not realizing the sweet old lady at target, your TA in school, Your neighbor, or any number of people you see on a daily basis that don't fit your prejudice needs or needed help at some point.

Are there people who abuse the systems? Yes, but this doesn't impugn the whole system, and micromanaging doesn't fix this.

And with growing inequality and stagnant wages caused by republican obstruction of changes neccesary to address inequality, this will only get worse.

[Edited on June 5, 2014 at 2:21 PM. Reason : ]

6/5/2014 2:21:10 PM

Quote :

"technically i was not incorrect by grouping foodstamps/SNAP/EBT together."

not really. EBT is yet another program people have to apply for. You do realize that some people are SUPER poor and not very well educated, so getting the help they need by jumping through hoops can be difficult. People on all three programs have it really, really rough. Again, why the lack of compassion?

Quote :

"And I agree, lets educate people on how to better manage their money. But if I were to suggest something like required personal finance courses for anyone on any type of public assistance, I'd be hating poor people or assuming poor people or stupid, or something."

I would totally agree with this. The problem is that conservatives want to do everything to eliminate the programs, not make them more comprehensive and productive.

And, FWIW, I think a tax on soda and ending corn syrup subsidies would be the best, so I agree with dtownral.

[Edited on June 5, 2014 at 2:27 PM. Reason : .]

6/5/2014 2:24:07 PM

^^^oh, so like the kind of training in the Family Support Act of 1988 that conservatives didn't want to pay for? or maybe like that in the JOBS act? etc...

its been tried, it doesn't make a difference, no one wants to pay for it, and few really utilize it. It's not bad to push that education, its good, just don't pretend like it will make a difference for most people.

[Edited on June 5, 2014 at 2:25 PM. Reason : .]

6/5/2014 2:24:48 PM

Why are conservatives against programs like this?

6/5/2014 2:26:28 PM

They don't want to waste time/money trying to educate people that are subhuman. They want people off the dole completely, since they believe the wealthy are far better at providing charity. How do you not know this?

6/5/2014 2:28:39 PM

^How bout quit trolling and go back to the abortion thread.

And I would most definitely be for a "Stop the high fructose corn syrup" campaign.

[Edited on June 5, 2014 at 2:32 PM. Reason : asdfa]

6/5/2014 2:31:06 PM

I'm not trolling. I'm being 100% honest. If you can't see the flawed logic in cutting aid to those who need it the most, I don't know what to tell ya, pal.

6/5/2014 2:35:55 PM

I thought the argument was prohibiting food stamps from being used to buy soda (or convenient store honeybuns), which i'm not sure why anyone would strongly disagree with.

6/5/2014 2:38:02 PM

I have more of a problem with his utter lack of empathy than anything. Don't you?

6/5/2014 2:39:25 PM

Yeah, I'm all about empathy. I do have a slight problem with someone using food stamps and owning an iPhone 5 and buying lottery tickets... but I realize there's little that can be done about that. I also realize that while there are instances of that occurring, it doesn't represent the majority of people who use food stamps.

6/5/2014 2:42:45 PM

I'm pretty sure MOST of us have a problem with the iPhone 5 welfare queens. But I'll tell you this. Most of my experience in dealing with WIC/SNAP recipients at the grocery store is more sad than rage-inducing. And if these programs are mostly helping those who need it the most, I can live with a few welfare queens gaming the system. At least their kids are getting some food and they aren't out on the streets where things are way uglier.

Again, MY point: Why is the first thing people want to do to welfare recipients a form of punishment, as opposed to a form of education? Oh, because it's always simpler to treat the symptom instead of the root cause of the issue.

[Edited on June 5, 2014 at 2:50 PM. Reason : .]

6/5/2014 2:48:22 PM

Who says I don't have empathy? My heart bleeds for the iphone user.

The example's in moron's well written post don't need my empathy - it sounds like they've used the system responsibly, and only used it when it was needed. No empathy required. I think that is great. I just wish there was a way to weed out those that I guess you think need my empathy.

6/5/2014 2:49:55 PM

Quote :

"it sounds like they've used the system responsibly, and only used it when it was needed. No empathy required."

You're empathizing right there! You're putting yourself in their shoes, and realizing their use of food stamps was justified.

6/5/2014 2:54:03 PM

it's back to the subhuman thing again. responsible WIC/SNAP users= human. Welfare queens= subhuman

6/5/2014 2:55:22 PM

Quote :

"Who says I don't have empathy? My heart bleeds for the iphone user. The example's in moron's well written post don't need my empathy - it sounds like they've used the system responsibly, and only used it when it was needed. No empathy required. I think that is great. I just wish there was a way to weed out those that I guess you think need my empathy. "

I'll also add that one of these guys also smoke pot (very rarely since the baby) and drank soda, owned his home, had an HDTV (but no cable) and a cell phone, laptop computer, and high speed internet, and 2 cars (used--no car payments).

The idea you project for welfare recipients is that they should be eating bread and water, and living in boxes and be grateful for it. The reality is that you don't know why people don't have a sustainable income, and they know best how to spend their money to better themselves (try keeping your family together and doing grad school with no internet at home, for example).

The government isn't designed so that rjfumfel has to personally review every case and deems the person worthy or not. You create a system that can and does help people, hire and trust administrators to run it, and make sure there's reasonable oversight.

You don't demonize and create caricatures of those recipients, make good people feel bad for needing help sometimes, then fight to tear down the system as government overreach and socialism and whatever else people like HUR believe without evidence.

6/5/2014 3:24:12 PM

I have no problem for programs for deserving poor. This thread is about people on Food Stamps being able to buy Soda which I argue should not be defined as FOOD

6/5/2014 3:39:30 PM

If you're saying that No one should be buying soda as food, I agree. No need to single out the poor.

6/5/2014 3:55:25 PM

No one should really drink alcohol either, but we single out the poor there. One could argue that it has caloric value similar to soda, as in empty calories.

6/5/2014 4:09:21 PM

Anyone and everyone should be allowed to buy and drink soda if they want to (although I wish they'd do away with the high fructose). But food stamps shouldn't be used to purchase the soda.

6/5/2014 4:12:35 PM

they should only be kept alive (not happy)

jk we need a catastrophic worldwide plague

6/5/2014 4:17:47 PM

Quote :

"I have yet to hear an argument supporting the continuing allowance for one to buy Soda with money from this program; everything seems to be a Red Herring about the plight of poor people and/or one should be allowed to buy soda."

Oh nonsense, I did this on the first page.

Food is energy, and some foods offer cheaper energy than others. If they need help, then they need to get 2000 calories with as much money left over as possible. There's still rent and other crap to pay for. EBT doesn't pay your entire food bill. But it might if you only ate processed and incredibly unhealthy foods.

6/5/2014 4:18:05 PM

so whats wrong with that

makes sense to me

plus it will kill them faster

the key is not paying for their health problems

6/5/2014 4:22:51 PM

Quote :

"How can a poor person afford an Iphone 5? I'm a working professional and I didn't get a smart phone until last month."

Priorities. The iPhone and cable come first then the other stuff if there's enough left over.

6/5/2014 4:31:06 PM

damn, that loud lady in line with an iPhone and rims on her car has cable too? i bet that bitch has all the movie channels too, including the shitty Starz shit.

[Edited on June 5, 2014 at 4:41 PM. Reason : probably also has satellite in addition to cable for better NFL coverage]

6/5/2014 4:41:08 PM

what are you getting at? i think we've covered that.

6/5/2014 4:42:25 PM

6/5/2014 4:47:49 PM

What if it's a prepaid Android phone? Is it OK then, or is she still being a subhuman leech?

6/5/2014 4:59:02 PM

give that bitch a stack of quarters and let her find a pay phone

6/5/2014 4:59:57 PM

What about Boost Mobile with an old flip phone from 2007?

6/5/2014 5:10:35 PM

Quote :

"SODA IS NOT FUCKING FOOD AND HAS NO NUTRITIONAL VALUE "

I don't understand this. I mean I know it isn't healthy, but it arguably does have nutritional value. A soda has about 150 calories of sugar in it. That is nutrition. What you should be against is diet soda, or any other food product that doesn't have calories, since it actually doesn't have nutritional value.

6/5/2014 5:58:24 PM

Quote :

"What if it's a prepaid Android phone? Is it OK then, or is she still being a subhuman leech?"

Actually, the pricing scheme for Android tracfones is different from their other handsets, and slightly more generous. Depending on how much you use (of both text and talk), the Android can actually be cheaper.

6/5/2014 5:59:31 PM

Quote :

"I have no problem for programs for deserving poor"

Just out of curiosity, what makes one poor person 'deserving' and another poor person 'undeserving'? Back to the old "them subhumans need a good punishin' '" I guess....



[Edited on June 5, 2014 at 6:06 PM. Reason : .]

6/5/2014 6:03:18 PM

food stamps should be scrapped and something akin to soylent green (except not made of people) should be distributed instead. (if the people relying on the government want something more, they will be motivated to find ways to less rely on the government.)

[Edited on June 5, 2014 at 7:22 PM. Reason : ]

6/5/2014 7:21:39 PM

^ ha you jokng? You really think their lives are so great as it Is?

poverty is not a character flaw.

You can't honestly, as someone who values science, look at the trend of middle class wages and wealth vs productivity, look at how his compares to Canada who just overtook us, and believe simply this is a problem of motivation.

Blaming motivation is possibly the dumbest explanation of the issue, when looking at the data.

6/5/2014 7:45:45 PM

just reading that approved WIC list, organic foods are banned by the list linked earlier in the thread. why in the fuck would you do that?

6/5/2014 7:51:03 PM

^^we are entitled to our own opinions, but we aren't entitled to our own set of 'facts'.

^because organic shit is expensive. it's the same reason why WIC only allows for generics or whatever is on sale.

[Edited on June 5, 2014 at 7:54 PM. Reason : .]

6/5/2014 7:53:49 PM

i read a comment by a woman on foodstamps a few months ago. she said that she got a dirty look from the cashier or someone for buying a birthday cake on foodstamps. and her response hit home. she basically said that she wanted to give her kid a birthday party. that was one bit of joy she could take for a week. and some might say "why don't you make a cake?" that wasn't a luxury that she had, working two jobs to make ends meet. so she bought a cake and gave her kid a birthday party. because sometimes when you have very little money for luxuries, food is the one thing that you can splurge on now and again.

^not always. store brand organic is often similarly priced to name brand non-organic stuff. and often if you're buying something local, it's cheaper. but WIC denies any organic for most items.

[Edited on June 5, 2014 at 7:58 PM. Reason : .]

6/5/2014 7:57:16 PM

she probably had that kid out of wedlock and now we're stuck paying the tab. if only she had made her partner wear a condom, she wouldn't have to use foodstamps to buy her kid a bday cake. HER FAULT!

oh, and she better fucking not have bought any soda to go along with that cake...



[Edited on June 5, 2014 at 8:10 PM. Reason : .]

6/5/2014 8:06:26 PM