2 sad

11/24/2014 12:23:46 AM

In the past five years, more Utahns have been killed by police than by gang members.

Or drug dealers. Or from child abuse.
http://www.sltrib.com/news/1842489-155/killings-by-utah-police-outpacing-gang?fullpage=1

This is only going to spread as the mentality of people ITT that cops should be trigger-happy and reactionary grows, despite a generally falling crime rate, and very few cops killed by guns in the line of duty.

I'm a little fascinated that none of the Bundy ranch protesters were shot, for doing things at least as threatening. Seems like the cops could have trumped up some reason to light some of them up, I wonder if some of you would be so quick to jump to the government's defense then.

[Edited on November 24, 2014 at 1:03 AM. Reason : ]

11/24/2014 12:42:27 AM

Cops didnt wanna actually bang it out with those guys carrying real rifles

11/24/2014 1:08:52 AM

There should be no such thing as a "toy" gun.

11/24/2014 6:54:27 AM

Quote :

"this is an instance where the cop should have shot to injure, not to kill"

if you have to shoot someone, you shoot to kill.

Quote :

"I shot a kid. He was 13 years old. Oh, it was dark, I couldn't see him, he had a ray gun, looked real enough. You know when you're a rookie they can teach you everything about being a cop, except how to live with a mistake. Anyway, I just couldn't bring myself to draw my gun on anyone again."

"thinking about doing it again"

11/24/2014 8:06:59 AM

Have we talked enough yet about how ridiculous it is to expect adult thought, actions, and reactions from a child? I'm not sure that we have.

11/24/2014 8:09:26 AM

Quote :

"This story, like most others like it, says more about the rise of the soldier-cop and the decline of neighborhood policing. Police no longer view the public as citizens, but rather as threats that need to be neutralized. When the cops value their own safety over the safety of the public, the line between law enforcement and occupation gets pretty blurry."

So a 12 year old pulls out, what looks like a fully functioning gun, and points it at you. Just supposed to stand there and laugh because hes a "kid"? I guess when that happens, we should send you into his family's house to explain to them why their husband/father is now 6 feet under the ground and won't be around for anymore holidays, family outings, vacations, etc. If you're dumb enough to pull out a gun, whether real or not, and point it at a cop, you are dumb enough to get shot. Blame the kid, blame his parents...but don't blame the cop in that situation.

Quote :

"It's still pretty fucking sad knowing that you can't call the cops without the growing possibility that they will kill somebody."

If I were a cop and someone is threatening my life, you damn well better believe I'm not gonna be the one dying. Don't wanna get shot? Don't aim a gun at a cop. Don't attack a cop sitting in his squad car. How f'ing simple is that? I mean good grief.

[Edited on November 24, 2014 at 8:35 AM. Reason : sdf]

11/24/2014 8:32:14 AM

And don't be an old man your own house refusing to leave?

And don't walk into a dimly lit stair well?

And don't pick up a BB gun for sale in a Wal-Mart?

And don't be about to get married?

And don't be in a truck that looks nothing like a truck owned by a police suspect?

And don't be handcuffed, laying down on the rail platform?


Geez, that does sound pretty simple. As long as I obey those very obvious rules, I will never be shot by the police. Thanks for clearing that up.

[Edited on November 24, 2014 at 8:57 AM. Reason : handcuffed in the back of a squad car = shooting yourself tho]

11/24/2014 8:54:36 AM

Quote :

"So a 12 year old pulls out, what looks like a fully functioning gun, and points it at you. Just supposed to stand there and laugh because hes a "kid"? I guess when that happens, we should send you into his family's house to explain to them why their husband/father is now 6 feet under the ground and won't be around for anymore holidays, family outings, vacations, etc. If you're dumb enough to pull out a gun, whether real or not, and point it at a cop, you are dumb enough to get shot. Blame the kid, blame his parents...but don't blame the cop in that situation. "

The kid never pointed the gun at an officer, so your constructed narrative here isn't even relevant.

But it's extremely unlikely anyway for a cop to be killed on a call, 30 were shot last year, nationwide (http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-fatalities-data/causes.html). If you have any grasp of risk or statistics, you'd realize your baseless opinion that cops should be trigger happy and on edge is just wrong. There's no rationale for it.

This is further validated by the fact that it was the rookie cop in this incident that screwed up. The veteran cop realized he was at a playground, the kid was young, was most likely not going to shoot, and probably realized it was most likely not a real gun.

11/24/2014 11:45:59 AM

Man, what if one cop was screaming "PUT YOUR HANDS UP!", and the other was screaming "PUT THE GUN DOWN!"

11/24/2014 12:57:15 PM

I wonder what would happen to me if I killed a 12 year old boy who pointed a toy gun at me.

[Edited on November 24, 2014 at 1:17 PM. Reason : Oh sorry, not pointed, *reached for* a toy gun]

11/24/2014 1:16:01 PM

i got in trouble as a kid for carrying my bb gun down the street. a police officer pulled up, explained why it was dangerous, then gave me a police badge sticker

(then when my mom asked me where i got the police badge sticker i stupidly told her the story and got grounded because i wasn't supposed to have my bb gun without asking first)

11/24/2014 1:26:17 PM

^^well, if you were a government agent and received training on how to develop good stories and excuses after wrongfully killing a person, you'd probably be just fine.

[Edited on November 24, 2014 at 1:27 PM. Reason : ^^]

11/24/2014 1:26:31 PM

Quote :

" So a 12 year old pulls out, what looks like a fully functioning gun, and points it at you. Just supposed to stand there and laugh because hes a "kid"? I guess when that happens, we should send you into his family's house to explain to them why their husband/father is now 6 feet under the ground and won't be around for anymore holidays, family outings, vacations, etc. If you're dumb enough to pull out a gun, whether real or not, and point it at a cop, you are dumb enough to get shot. Blame the kid, blame his parents...but don't blame the cop in that situation. "

If I had to choose between telling a family that their dad died on the job as a police officer, vs. telling a family that their child died because he was playing with a toy.....I'd choose the former.


Every. Fucking. Time.

[Edited on November 24, 2014 at 1:32 PM. Reason : ]

11/24/2014 1:30:45 PM

heh, looks like there was surveillance video that captured the shooting. Though, it is not being released to the public yet....

11/24/2014 1:47:44 PM

The risk of being killed by a cop for carrying a gun is greater than the risk of being killed by a criminal because you didn't have a gun.

11/24/2014 1:49:27 PM

^^You can be sure that if the video exonerates the cop, it will be made public with the quickness.

[Edited on November 24, 2014 at 1:50 PM. Reason : ]

11/24/2014 1:49:51 PM

If video has not been released it must not reflect well on the cop.

11/24/2014 1:51:19 PM

Quote :

"Man, what if one cop was screaming "PUT YOUR HANDS UP!", and the other was screaming "PUT THE GUN DOWN!""

Dude in Utah or Arizona was killed last year that way. Trying to comply, then 6 cops shot him when trying to put the (legally carried) gun down, after a nut job called the police because he was carrying it.

11/24/2014 6:47:36 PM

Quote :

"This is the most charitable recount of this event you could make at this point, and the obvious failure of the dispatcher to mention the caller thought the Gun was fake could have changed things. Let alone the officer using better judgement based on the way other people in the park were treating the kid."

The dispatcher's job is to relay the facts of the report. The caller's opinion that the gun is fake is entirely irrelevant. What if the caller is wrong and the cop approaches accordingly and ends up getting shot?

I do, however, somewhat agree with you with regard to the cop factoring in the reactions of the other people in the park to the kid. However, at the same time, there are numerous times where people are simply oblivious to what is going on around them so it's not entirely fool proof.

11/24/2014 8:08:27 PM

Quote :

"The dispatcher's job is to relay the facts of the report. The caller's opinion that the gun is fake is entirely irrelevant."

Not really. "The caller feels that the gun is fake" is a fact. And if I were an officer driving to this scene, I'd like to know that fact.

11/24/2014 8:58:30 PM

Quote :

"^ i'm talking about water guns here, and cap guns. Kids definitely played with these things at the park. I don't think walmart sells cap guns anymore at all. No one wanted to be the kid with the crappy paper caps either, it was all about the plastic caps. I had one of these: "

Ah...the 1980's. I had the black Uzi squirt gun.

11/24/2014 10:18:57 PM

Quote :

"Not really. "The caller feels that the gun is fake" is a fact. And if I were an officer driving to this scene, I'd like to know that fact."

The caller "feeling that the gun is fake" implies the caller never should have called 911 to begin with. And if the caller called 911 just to be safe then I imagine the cop approached the situation as if it was a real gun just to be safe.

11/24/2014 10:20:31 PM

I'm sure the caller assumed that the cop would use his or her training to properly investigate the situation in a responsible manner.


The caller was obviously wrong.

11/24/2014 11:32:43 PM

What do you suppose is the proper manner in which to investigate a report of an individual brandishing a firearm in public and pointing it at people?

11/25/2014 12:08:50 AM

Whoever was being sarcastic about shooting a toddler with a crossbow has never had a toddler. With a crossbow.

That would be deadly.

11/25/2014 12:14:02 AM

Quote :

" I'm sure the caller assumed that the cop would use his or her training to properly investigate the situation in a responsible manner. The caller was obviously wrong. "

To be fair to the police, one officer, the veteran, did handle the situation correctly. It was only the naive, inexperienced rookie that screwed up. Not sure why people are so quick to defend the incompetent employee's action , ignoring that the veteran employee did the right thing.

I'd have thought people would want to weed out the guy that sucks at his job, but looks like people like Cherokee are okay with Bad employees, even when they kill a 12 year old child .

11/25/2014 1:51:27 AM

so i guess this wont get any more attention because of ferguson huh

11/25/2014 9:38:39 AM

Its a dead black kid, do you really care?

11/25/2014 10:34:23 AM

I am all for making toy guns be forced to be made as obvious toys rather than appearing even remotely real. If someone pulls out a plastic neon green toy gun and you shoot them then I dont think you are gonna have much argument. Hard to justify this still, but at least there could be some reasoning behind it.

11/25/2014 10:41:13 AM

^^you shouldnt troll outside the garage

especially not on a subject like this..

i was dead serious

11/25/2014 10:46:55 AM

I'm not trolling, my question is serious.

11/25/2014 10:49:33 AM

I'm sure he cares just as much had it been a dead white kid.

Why can't it be just a dead kid.

11/25/2014 10:54:27 AM

^

11/25/2014 11:04:45 AM

lol at the conservative super group coming together to celebrate their post-racial bliss.


Do you seriously think racial bias didn't have something to do with the itchy trigger finger? Do you seriously think a police officer would be as quick to pull the trigger on a white 12 year old kid in the same situation? Do you seriously think police would swarm a wal*mart and blast a white guy holding a replica shotgun (or if anyone would even bother to call the cops in the first place)? Do you seriously think a self appointed neighborhood watch member would follow a "suspicious" white teenager walking around in his own neighborhood?

Have you fuckers not learned anything? Black teenagers are viewed as scary and menacing threats by society, and that fear excuses excessive and deadly force every fucking time.

I promise you, if this story takes off, this kid will have his character assassinated in the media. Pictures of him with his friends will be used to frame him as a menace to justify some shithead cop (a grown fucking man, mind you) blasting this kid on the park without first asking questions. The cop, on the other hand, will have a family. A wife, kids, people who vouch for his character. The kid will not.

How many times do you need to read this script before you understand the ending?

11/25/2014 12:05:45 PM

Conservatives make my head hurt.

^ Within a month the story will be 12 year old bully, thug etc black kid provoked cop to kill him.

[Edited on November 25, 2014 at 12:08 PM. Reason : .]

11/25/2014 12:07:18 PM

Within a month nobody is going to remember this poor kid because of last night.

11/25/2014 1:36:48 PM

This one is on tape, so there will be no questions.

11/25/2014 1:59:02 PM

Quote :

" Within a month nobody is going to remember this poor kid because of last night."

Haha...the irony here is rich. You're a post-racial conservative, and you claim that we should all be outraged equally over a dead kid regardless of race. But here you suggest that the actions of the black community in Ferguson is going to spoil the American conscious of a dead kid in Cleveland.


.......hmmm..... How can that be if we live in a society where race is irrelevant to our collective thought?




Your post-racial bullshit might fool some, but you're not foolin' me, man. You might fool the other conservative fucks on this message board, but you don't fool Jesus. This is bush league psyche-out stuff.


Laughable, man.

Ha!



[Edited on November 25, 2014 at 2:38 PM. Reason : ]

11/25/2014 2:32:29 PM

was the officer in cleveland white

11/25/2014 2:56:42 PM

I have no idea.

But that's not really pertinent to the argument. The argument is that law enforcement in general is more likely to act aggressively to minority communities. And also more likely to be exonerated for use of excessive force against those communities.

There is a lower bar to clear what qualifies as necessary force when the victim is a minority. Even if that minority is a child. That's the issue. Not the race of the cop. Authority can abuse minority communities with impunity.

11/25/2014 3:03:22 PM

i pretty much agree with all that

would you be here saying all the same things if darren wilson was black then

(just to further clarify)

11/25/2014 3:09:46 PM

Probably

11/25/2014 3:10:09 PM

Of course, that's not why you brought that up.


You brought that up to paint me as some sissy liberal fedora wearing faggy latte drinker who race baits comfortably from my middle class living room without actually doing anything meaningful. So let's just cut to the chase, shall we?

11/25/2014 3:12:23 PM

This isn't a race issue, its a justice problem. Precedence has been set that cops are all but untouchable in the justice system, especially when the victim is a minority.

11/25/2014 3:14:35 PM

^ That precedent has existed for decades... it's clear as day in the statistics. This was an opportunity for the justice system to fight that stereotype (more than a stereotype really), and they failed.

11/25/2014 3:16:07 PM

They didn't fail, to fail means you try. From the beginning they were out to thug shame the victim and clear the cop. The same will happen in this case.

11/25/2014 3:17:37 PM

Quote :

"Of course, that's not why you brought that up. You brought that up to paint me as some sissy liberal fedora wearing faggy latte drinker who race baits comfortably from my middle class living room without actually doing anything meaningful. So let's just cut to the chase, shall we?"

actually no i was quite happy with your response (and had no agenda)

but thanks for going the extra mile and expressing some strange paranoia

11/25/2014 3:20:33 PM

Quote :

"They didn't fail, to fail means you try. From the beginning they were out to thug shame the victim and clear the cop. The same will happen in this case."

so who exactly didnt try? you have a big problem with the grand jury system, so lets have it.

where was the conspiracy? which eyewitness got thrown out; which piece of evidence was planted?

which juror got bought?

11/25/2014 3:23:57 PM

Do you not have a memory? You've brought out that tired liberal smear a million times to a million users. Including me. It's not paranoia. It's memory.

11/25/2014 3:26:02 PM