we will probably have our kids in church even though neither of us are religious simply because i still haven't found a secular equivalent to the kind of experience and support i (and my family) had in a church growing up.

12/10/2014 11:00:47 AM

Quote :

"well that's why you're not religious. people who believe see it differently."

No, I'm not religious because I have no use for a god.

I went to both Catholic and Baptist churches quite a bit as a child.

"Come up and be saved!" What kid doesn't want to do that? You get a bunch of attention, and you get saved from all the awful shit you just heard about.

EXCEPT A KID IS NOT SMART ENOUGH TO REALIZE THAT NONE OF THIS IS REAL.

Years later, when they do realize, if they make the choice to continue to believe, that's fine. But what about the kids who are like, "WTF, parents? Why did you lie to be about my very existence for years?" That's a tough thing to take.

[Edited on December 10, 2014 at 11:11 AM. Reason : 2]

12/10/2014 11:06:09 AM

Quote :

"i still haven't found a secular equivalent to the kind of experience and support"

If you can't figure out activities for your kids other than lying to them about how the universe works then maybe you shouldn't have kids. My parents took me to church multiple times a week AND had tons of other activities for me to do. Step your game up

When I was a kid, I played sports, played music, did tons of art stuff. My mom ran a black community empowerment group in Durham so I went to a ton of African American cultural/history type things. I guess my parents wanted me to be well rounded.

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

[Edited on December 10, 2014 at 11:25 AM. Reason : and well rounded I am not :^)]

12/10/2014 11:18:55 AM

Quote :

"church is an unforgiving emotional environment"

wow...that's some rough churching...


maybe i go to a weirdo church, but there has been absolutely nothing scarring, unforgiving, or tortuous about it in the 36 years i've gone there...

12/10/2014 11:19:33 AM

dtownral: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarian_Universalism

12/10/2014 11:21:20 AM

Quote :

"I think it's perfectly fine to instill the values the Bible teaches at a young age. I view the Bible as a metaphor for living an honorable lifestyle and an epic piece of literature. I also think that children benefit from a feeling of protection at a young age. As they get older, they'll sort things out for themselves as far as the origin of life and the terminus of their being but the basic teachings of the Bible are still solid in my opinion. Granted, you don't have to use religion to teach the same values to your children but it was the way I was raised and I like the traditional aspect of it. ... maybe I'm in the minority but I really appreciate my experience growing up. to be clear, I've never been to church with my parents and have never seen them go. they put me into a private school for the academic value but there was never, or is , not religious pressure on me at all. I was never brainwashed and I've made my own decisions on spirituality based on life experience."

Sorry, but I think there's so much wrong with all of this. First, you can teach a kid to be a decent human being and follow the golden rule without having to bring the ten commandments into the picture. Thou shall not kill, steal, etc. aren't exclusive to christianity or religion, and to say that they are just silly.... and let's not get into all the very silly values and rules that are in the bible, particuarlly in the old testament. The bible has a lot of good lessons and metaphors, and a ton of silly and contradicting things that shouldn't be instilled into children at a young age.

And yes, going to church at a young age is brainwash, plain and simple. I grew up in a church, was told there was this god and jesus looking down on me and helping me, that noah's ark was real, and that'd i'd go to hell if i didn't believe it all. which caused some fairly serious inner-turmoil when i finally started really thinking about it for myself, logically, sometime in high school, and started admitting to myself that ia lot of the stuff that i had simply taken for granted, that were pounded into me during my whole childhood, may not be true. It took me years to escape the fear of hell to finally accept and admit to myself that it was a lie.

Quote :

"maybe i go to a weirdo church, but there has been absolutely nothing scarring, unforgiving, or tortuous about it in the 36 years i've gone there..."

sorry to be a dick, but you have been scarred. you believe and base your life on a religion that isn't real. if you were born in indoenesia you'd probably be a devout muslim, and if you were born in india, you'd probably be a devout hindu.



[Edited on December 10, 2014 at 11:28 AM. Reason : ]

12/10/2014 11:24:29 AM

being an atheist is so trendy these days!

12/10/2014 11:29:37 AM

Good, it should be. Although I'm not sure if it's "trendy", or it's just that as the years go by, and traditions become obsolete, and people learn more, and information is more accessible, and science progresses, more people are starting to see that dogmatic religions aren't a necessity of life.

12/10/2014 11:31:18 AM

^^So is only having one wife, not having slaves, allowing women to vote, etc

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

[Edited on December 10, 2014 at 11:34 AM. Reason : I AM A PART OF THE ANTICHRIST REPTILIAN AGENDA]

12/10/2014 11:33:24 AM

Quote :

"you believe and base your life on a religion that isn't real"

you don't know that actually

12/10/2014 11:34:08 AM

Quote :

"dtownral: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarian_Universalism"

i've attended a few, one was okay but one seemed heavy on pantheism stuff that didn't resonate with me. we will try out another UU church though. I've had more luck attending Quaker Friends meetings and will likely raise our children in a liberal Quaker church, there seems to be a pretty good network in NC with lots of young families. basically my dream would be to find an active athiest/agnostic humanist church, and the Quakers or UU are the closest to that.

[Edited on December 10, 2014 at 11:37 AM. Reason : .]

12/10/2014 11:35:37 AM

the problem with Christianity is that it has been co opted by shitheads over and over

if Christians followed Christ alone there wouldn't be much of an issue

[Edited on December 10, 2014 at 11:36 AM. Reason : .]

12/10/2014 11:35:54 AM

maybe not, but all signs (logic, reason, science) point to no.

and i know for a fact that a lot in the bible (or beliefs of other religions), such as the creation story in genesis, are a lie.

[Edited on December 10, 2014 at 11:36 AM. Reason : ^you mean the shitheads who wrote the bible?]

12/10/2014 11:36:14 AM

Quote :

"you believe and base your life on a religion that isn't real"

^^Actually we do know, and christianity is very real.

Quote :

"if Christians followed Christ alone there wouldn't be much of a issue"

If communists followed marx it would work!!!1


UNFORTUNATELY Christ didn't have the foresight to add in a couple verses about abortion. I can't trust a deity who can't predict shit that I can see with my own eyes.

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

12/10/2014 11:36:21 AM

Quote :

"sorry to be a dick, but you have been scarred. you believe and base your life on a religion that isn't real. if you were born in indoenesia you'd probably be a devout muslim, and if you were born in india, you'd probably be a devout hindu."

As an atheist, atheists like you piss me off. Live and let live man. If they aren't pushing their beliefs on you (which they aren't) there's no reason to go in on them like that. You cannot rule out without a shadow of a doubt that there is no Higher Being, it's just your choice to believe one way or another (and a belief I share).

I do believe that a child should 'find' faith, not be pushed into it by their parents. Sending your kid to a Christian church narrows their views down to that one dogma, and what parent would want to limit their kid like that? Educate your child on several faiths, and let them make their way. It's lazy parenting to pigeonhole your kid into your dogmatic viewpoint, and now more often than not just causes a strain in the relationship down the road.

12/10/2014 11:37:37 AM

Quote :

"Live and let live man"

I wish that it was this simple. Unfortunately 'The Church' has a lot of money and affects public policy all over the fucking place in this country.

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

12/10/2014 11:39:54 AM

Hey, I'm all about live and let live. If that's what you want to believe, fine. In real life, I'm not going to be confrontational with a stranger unless they really want to know my opinion. But we're on a message board giving opinions, and that' my opinion. No, I can't rule out that there isn't a higher being. But I can rule out the one described in the bible isn't real.

[Edited on December 10, 2014 at 11:40 AM. Reason : ^and that's a good point. religion unfortunately persuades a lot of public policy.]

12/10/2014 11:40:25 AM

Quote :

"^you mean the shitheads who wrote the bible"

parts of it ya

it's happened with every religion. shitheads insert their shithead ideas and it sometimes becomes canon

anyways good luck changing people's minds by telling them their passionately held beliefs that guide their lives are wrong and stupid

12/10/2014 11:41:00 AM

I do have a thing for jewish girls tho

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

12/10/2014 11:49:15 AM

Quote :

"maybe i go to a weirdo church, but there has been absolutely nothing scarring, unforgiving, or tortuous about it in the 36 years i've gone there"

Church hurt my self esteem quite a bit. Having your God tell you that you aren't worth as much as a man because we are female is kinda shitty. The church I grew up in was very strict on that. Women could not preach, they were not allowed to teach Sunday school classes of their peers (kids were ok), could not be any type of leader in the church, or generally have a voice at all ... unless of course there is food to make or things to clean.

I personally do not care what other people to choose to believe. I just prefer that they keep their judgements to themselves. When I'm going out with someone, I do try to figure out how religious they are pretty quickly. I know what types can lead to a bumpy relationship ride.

12/10/2014 11:52:50 AM

Quote :

"anyways good luck changing people's minds by telling them their passionately held beliefs that guide their lives are wrong and stupid"

uh, i'm not trying to change passionate believers' minds. in most cases, there's nothing that would change their mind short of "god" coming down and telling everyone that allah was the true prophet or david koresh was actually the second coming of jesus, or whatever. and that still wouldn't change a lot of their minds. and i know this. i'm giving my opinion on a message board.

12/10/2014 11:54:39 AM

Quote :

"Women could not preach, they were not allowed to teach Sunday school classes of their peers (kids were ok), could not be any type of leader in the church, or generally have a voice at all ... unless of course there is food to make or things to clean. "

Sounds like all those hajji religions we HATE. Islamic radicals hate christianity because it has evolved alongside our secular society and they see it happening in their world as well (see Lebanon)

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

12/10/2014 12:01:12 PM

so...i guess my OP was answered.

12/10/2014 12:02:37 PM

lol

12/10/2014 12:03:16 PM

Fact: christian women are more likely to have breast augmentation.

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

12/10/2014 12:04:58 PM

holy shit. this thread has brought out all of TWWs top trolls.

[Edited on December 10, 2014 at 1:14 PM. Reason : unintentional pun ]

12/10/2014 1:13:43 PM

no one is trolling itt. not sure you're using that word correctly.

12/10/2014 1:16:42 PM

Cool that so many people ITT made such a phenomenal recovery from being brainwashed!

12/10/2014 3:01:33 PM

Unfortunately, as evidenced in this thread, many more don't recover from the brainwashing.

^^^who do you think is trolling, and why?

12/10/2014 3:06:58 PM

Quote :

"so...i guess my OP was answered."

back on topic. I'm married to a fairly devout believer, though she considers herself a messianic jew, so there's no hell I'll go to (per se; Sheol instead). I myself am an atheist, antitheist, pessimist, and probably a nihilist as well. We in no way align in our personal philosophies on life, except maybe that we both like dark jokes. She's pretty accepting of my cracks on her religion (Mary: so Joseph, you know how we've never had sex?), and I'm very tolerant of her practices (which are not forced on me by any means). I take part in the Passover Seder, for example (it does involve drinking, after all). We seem to be making it work. We've only been married a year, but we've been together for 3 years.

12/10/2014 3:13:57 PM

its all good until she kicks out a baby and decides to brainwash it.

12/10/2014 3:16:47 PM

My gf is Catholic. Very Catholic. Enough that I call her Shiite Catholic. I am agnostic, at best. But we make it work. We've been together 2 years now and just got engaged.

Things that have been challenging:

1. She will not move in with me until we're married. This attitude has not extended to staying over frequently and doing the hibbidy-dibbidy like mad rabbits.

2. Once we got engaged, I found out I have to go through the church's "annulment" process because I'm divorced. I find this to be the utterest of utter bullshit. I'm doing it because it will make her happy. She is adamant she wants to be married in the church, but she said that if they say no to the annulment, she'll marry me anyway, outside the church.

3. She wants to raise kids Catholic. I'm okay with it, as I was raised in a Protestant church, but was allowed to make my own decisions when I was old enough. Which is exactly what would happen with my kids.

That's about it really. All told it's been the easiest relationship I've ever been in.

12/10/2014 3:41:42 PM

Quote :

"1. She will not move in with me until we're married."

fuck

that

Quote :

"All told it's been the easiest relationship I've ever been in."

Either I'm a really agreeable person or I have just been really lucky...

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

12/10/2014 3:44:40 PM

She lives her life for the church, fuck that noise.

12/10/2014 3:47:12 PM

Sounds like hell

12/10/2014 11:49:15 PM

I may be forced to hold hands with everybody while they say grace at grandma's christmas dinner, but there's no way i'm saying amen

12/11/2014 2:33:15 AM

It really depends on if you are willing to go to church for her or if she is ok going to church alone.

If she is the kind of person that goes to church because it helps her and is like weekly counseling sessions for the low low price of 10% of your income then yeah it will work ok.

If every time she is banging you she is actually worried you are going to hell... Never gonna work.

12/11/2014 3:20:27 AM

Giving away 10% of her take home pay is divorce material.

12/11/2014 7:04:40 AM

take home? It's supposed to come off the top.

12/11/2014 7:09:29 AM

Christians, buying their way into heaven 10% at a time.

How can people not see that they are getting used, when does Jesus come collect his cash? But I can't expect them to recognize that when they spend their entire lives talking to "god" and he never talks back.

12/11/2014 7:13:35 AM

Quote :

"GREEN JAY All American 13830 Posts user info edit post I may be forced to hold hands with everybody while they say grace at grandma's christmas dinner, but there's no way i'm saying amen 12/11/2014 2:33:15 AM"

Yep. I usually have a moment of silence for all the lives lost in the name of religion

12/11/2014 7:31:45 AM

Quote :

"It really depends on if you are willing to go to church for her or if she is ok going to church alone. If she is the kind of person that goes to church because it helps her and is like weekly counseling sessions for the low low price of 10% of your income then yeah it will work ok."

She happily goes alone most of the time. I do go with her occasionally, because I figure if she'll go to movies and events that she really doesn't want to with me, I should at least return that.

I do believe she gets some kind of "I feel better about myself and life in general" feeling out of going every week. And she does put money in the collection plate, but it damn sure isn't 10%. It's more like 20 bucks, maybe.

12/11/2014 10:08:05 AM

Quote :

"Atheists are the worst about persecuting people."

Hmm, I'm not too sure about that. See: Spanish Inquisition

[Edited on December 11, 2014 at 10:16 AM. Reason : .]

12/11/2014 10:16:10 AM

As usual, before posting in a religion thread I need to point out that "religious" could mean something other than Christian, or even church-goer.

In high school, where I was one out of three Jewish kids in a class of 400, I was turned down for dates all the time because of my religion. There was the daughter of a preacher who originally said yes but then the next day told me her dad wouldn't allow it...even just going out to dinner. I had on and off things in my Jewish youth group and at Jewish summer camp, but Jewish teenagers aren't taught to suppress natural feelings the way some other religious groups are. But in school, the only girls anything ever happened with were the non-religious kind...and by that I mean non-athiests as well. Atheists were just as guilty for telling me my religion was the reason they couldn't see anything happening.

In college and in the early part of my professional career I dated a few Catholic girls (Boston was a great place for meeting Catholic girls). Those relationships ended for reasons having nothing to do with religion. I also dated Jewish girls in Boston who I just couldn't connect with on a religious level. The way they experienced Judaism in the northeast was so different than being in North Carolina where I was always a <1% minority.

I have been with my current girlfriend for over a year now. She is Jewish and grew up in southern Virginia, so she experienced life similar to the way I did. I think that's really what makes a strong relationship: connecting through shared experiences. For many people, religion is an experience they can share. Race can come into play here not because most people look to be with someone of the same race, but because coming from any kind of ethnic group means you have a more natural connection with others from that group because of the shared experience.

12/11/2014 4:34:53 PM

I wouldn't say race is what plays a role. Its more of a socioeconomic connection than a race one. I could easily date a woman outside of my race that grew up with a similar situation. Where as there's no way I could connect with a trust fund baby. Only racist people date based on skin color.

12/11/2014 4:38:36 PM

^^Us Atheists only dislike conservative christians and if we're uneducated we hate muslims too.

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

12/11/2014 4:39:08 PM