^^ i honestly have no idea what I'd tell the kid

I damn sure would try to make sure he never found out he was involved.

But seriously, what a fucking stupid bitch. She got everything she deserved. Sadly, she ruined a child's life in the process.

1/1/2015 3:36:53 AM

[Edited on January 1, 2015 at 3:41 AM. Reason : . judgemental assholes ITT]

1/1/2015 3:38:12 AM

I'm going to go drive my car 100mph in town. Make sure not to judge me when I run over a pedestrian.

1/1/2015 3:49:31 AM

If the kid had shot an innocent bystander, would you not judge the mother as being totally irresponsible?

1/1/2015 3:50:58 AM

^ was going to save that for the next response

1/1/2015 3:52:27 AM

Quote :

"So she had the gun chambered and the safety most likely off, wonderful."

You, obviously, have little knowledge of Concealed Carry.

1. You don't chamber a gun. You chamber a bullet.
2. Of course you have the damn thing chambered. What are you going to tell the person you're about to use it on? "Oh fine sir, do please wait whilst I chamber this bullet that I shall unload upon thee."
3. Most concealed carry handguns do not have a safety in the sense that you mean safety. Most all have trigger safeties which means you pull the trigger and it goes click. You then have to pull further to actually fire the trigger. There are firing pin safeties as well, but i won't go into that.
4. Of course the safety is off even if you DID have a weapon with a safety mechanism on it. What are you going to tell the person you're about to use it on? "Oh fine sir, do please wait whilst I unclick my safety and then chamber my bullet so that I can shoot you. I hope you don't mind me taking all of this time. Please don't shoot me in the head and kill me while im doing all of this."

1/1/2015 4:11:53 AM

Also to DrPeppers comment of 'do you think an assailant is going to let you chamber a round'...Do you think an assailant is going to let you get a gun out of a purse? There was no reason for this firearm to be kept in a ready to fire mode. None.

I have no issues with a weapon being kept with a round chambered by a responsible adult. However, in that case the safety better be on and that gun should be in your control at all times ie holstered. Not in a purse. Not in an unlocked glove box. Not laying on the seat.

If a toddler could get the weapon and fire it, an assailant could do it just as easily so throw the self defense argument out the window.

1/1/2015 4:17:10 AM

Oh for fucks sake, I was in the military and qualified expert on m16s and qualified on m9s, many people do call a weapon being chambered.

Also, to chamber a round, what? Quarter of a second? Flip safety off? Tenth of a second? Stop that bullshit.

1/1/2015 4:20:58 AM

She was a published nuclear research scientist!

1/1/2015 4:27:46 AM

Quote :

"If the kid had shot an innocent bystander, would you not judge the mother as being totally irresponsible?"

I'll bite. Irresponsible, yes.

Quote :

"She got everything she deserved"

I personally feel that's a harsh statement, but I can understand the justification. jaZon is being a flamboyant persecutor here with his over the top statements.

Quote :

"There was no reason for this firearm to be kept in a ready to fire mode. None."

What good is a firearm you carry with your person if it's not ready to be fired? I understand leaving the chamber empty, and even making use of an active safety. Those are reasonable measures to help prevent a discharge while not being too inconvinient/

But if you plan on carrying, you are accepting the responsibilities that comes with carrying a deadly tool. There are advantages and disadvantages do the different methods of carrying, but if your firearm is not within a reasonable response time of being fired (<1 second from draw) should the need arise, then it's pretty pointless to be carrying in the first place, assuming personal protection is the intention for being carried in the first place.

[Edited on January 1, 2015 at 4:44 AM. Reason : .]

[Edited on January 1, 2015 at 4:45 AM. Reason : .]

1/1/2015 4:34:31 AM

Jazon, I like you, but seriously, are you saying she "deserved to be shot"?

Why did she " deserve " that? Only people who deserve to be shot are serious criminals. Stupid people don't deserve to be shot. And we don't know if this (leaving the special purse within easy reach of her child) was her MO when carrying, or a one-off lapse in judgment. But even if that was her MO, that's unintentional stupidity, and that doesn't mean the person deserves to be shot at.

Wolfoack2015, I read your description of pulling the trigger process. Does a 2 year old have enough strength to execute that process?

1/1/2015 4:45:45 AM

Trigger pull on the M&P shield is about 6-7lbs. I'm pretty confident a child at age 2 could pull a triger of that weight. A long, heavy double action revolver trigger (10-12lbs) maybe more of a challenge.

[Edited on January 1, 2015 at 4:49 AM. Reason : .]

1/1/2015 4:48:04 AM

Not over the top at all. You lazily carry around a tool that has the singular purpose of killing something and you can't be fucking surprised when something like this happens.

^^ fair enough. She didn't deserve it. Stupid people don't deserve to be shot. But I'm not sympathetic at all. Sympathy for her child, yes.

[Edited on January 1, 2015 at 4:50 AM. Reason : ]

1/1/2015 4:49:23 AM

Quote :

"Also, to chamber a round, what? Quarter of a second? Flip safety off? Tenth of a second? Stop that bullshit."

Pull a trigger, 1 millionth of a second? You lose. You're dead. Hope you're happy with your unchambered weapon and your safety in the on position.

1/1/2015 4:51:24 AM

Forgetting you have the safety on, failing to flip the safety to OFF, forgetting/struggling/failing to chamber a round all have time penalty consequences as well. Regardless of the situation, proper training is required to master and effectively use any firearm. I'm not advocating one way over another, rather, stress that whatever system you go with will require proper practice so that mistakes are minimized and that actions are performed smoothly and are 2nd nature. Having a chambered round and the safety off (if applicable) doesn't help you any if you can't hit the target to begin with.

[Edited on January 1, 2015 at 4:56 AM. Reason : .]

1/1/2015 4:55:01 AM

My 442 has a 14 lb. trigger pull. I would be damn impressed if a 2 year old could pull that. But I also don't keep that shit in anything but my pocket.

1/1/2015 7:45:19 AM

Almost everyone carries chambered, and I think that gun is available with or without a manual safety. I'd guess that most handguns don't have a safety. All of that is fine. Hell, the one pistol I have with a safety is the one that I wouldn't really care to carry.

She had a concealment purse; that's the right tool for the job (if you really must carry in a purse, anyway). This is why I don't like external carry methods, though-I'd rather keep more positive control of it.

Either that or she was willingly letting the kid fuck with her purse, in which case I would have to view this as a Darwin Award.

1/1/2015 8:58:51 AM

Quote :

"You, obviously, have little knowledge of Concealed Carry. 1. You don't chamber a gun. You chamber a bullet. "

[NO]

"Chamber the gun" is common usage, and not really incorrect.

Quote :

"Most all have trigger safeties which means you pull the trigger and it goes click. You then have to pull further to actually fire the trigger. "

Ummm, what?

Quote :

"4. Of course the safety is off even if you DID have a weapon with a safety mechanism on it. What are you going to tell the person you're about to use it on? "Oh fine sir, do please wait whilst I unclick my safety and then chamber my bullet so that I can shoot you. I hope you don't mind me taking all of this time. Please don't shoot me in the head and kill me while im doing all of this.""

I would say that it depends on the pistol. Well, first of all, if I wanted a safety, I'd buy a gun with one, and if I didn't, I'd buy a gun without one. Safety systems are a big part of selecting one...

but in the case of, say, a 1911, there is no way in hell I'd carry with the safety off. In the case of a Beretta, for example, I'd have to research exactly what the safety did, but if all it does is prevent the trigger from engaging the hammer mechanism, then I'd just view it as a decocker and leave it off, with the pistol decocked for a DA first shot.

Quote :

"There was no reason for this firearm to be kept in a ready to fire mode. None."

In my opinion, if you're going to carry it, it should be ready to fire. If you aren't comfortable with that, get more proficient or don't carry it.

Quote :

"However, in that case the safety better be on and that gun should be in your control at all times ie holstered. Not in a purse. Not in an unlocked glove box. Not laying on the seat."

We've already discussed the safety thing.

This was a carry-purse, it's not like it was just loose in her purse (many women do carry that way; I think it's a really bad idea, although somewhat less so if it's holstered in there). I keep mine in my unlocked glovebox all the time if my daughter isn't with me. I don't see what the problem is there.

Laying on the seat has more to do with states whose laws encourage that by not allowing the glovebox, etc without a concealed carry permit, I expect.

Quote :

"Oh for fucks sake, I was in the military and qualified expert on m16s and qualified on m9s, "

I have seen many a Marine who was completely incompetent with the weapon(s) he/she had qualified on.

(so much so that my squadron had a policy of us keeping our weapons completely unloaded, 50' from the wire in Afghanistan, AFTER we'd already suffered a Taliban attack and had some guys get shot up and very nearly die. Dumbest, fucking disgracefully stupid thing ever.)

Quote :

"Pull a trigger, 1 millionth of a second? You lose. You're dead. Hope you're happy with your unchambered weapon and your safety in the on position."

I'm with you on keeping a round chambered and carrying a weapon with no thumb safety, but not for the purpose of saving 1/10 of a second so much as eliminating any chance of fumbling over it or worse, forgetting to switch it off.

1/1/2015 9:23:11 AM

1/1/2015 9:26:50 AM

[Edited on January 1, 2015 at 9:27 AM. Reason : dudududdouble post ]

1/1/2015 9:26:50 AM

bigger, more important question:

why didn't the baby have his own gun? this was obviously bad parenting. If the crime rate is bad enough in Idaho that she needs to stay strapped all the time, then all of her kids should've been strapped, too.

1/1/2015 9:27:52 AM

Peculiar irony that her professional trade was nuclear proliferation and weaponry (nuclear research scientist at the DOE/DOD shared facility in Northern Idaho) and a simple gun wielded by a child ended it for her.

Peculiar irony that her husband/child's father's name is Colt


stategrad100 has always been amused by fun puns or funnery:

Alan Greenspan, Chair of Fed (He always checked the spanning of the greenbacks for adjustment)
Chris Coke, major Drug Dealer from Jamaica running worldwide empire (self explanatory)
Derek Jeter, baseball player (Jeter is French for "to throw")
Colt Rutledge, son likes guns


The list goes on. Makes you wonder if there isn't something intrinsic in our genetic coding tied to our ancestral choices of surnames.

[Edited on January 1, 2015 at 9:33 AM. Reason : philosophy]

1/1/2015 9:27:56 AM

Ironic that the thing that was supposed to protect her killed her.

1/1/2015 9:31:23 AM

Ironic that the thing that was supposed to protect her and her child was used by her child to kill her

1/1/2015 9:58:21 AM

It's like ten thousand spoons when all you need is a knife.

1/1/2015 10:22:18 AM

Quote :

"Pull a trigger, 1 millionth of a second? You lose. You're dead. Hope you're happy with your unchambered weapon and your safety in the on position."

Yeah fuck that. I carry a gun that just fires nonstop all the time. I can't afford to lose time clicking a safety off or using the word "chamber" as a verb.

1/1/2015 10:29:21 AM

talked about this incident at the coffee shop this morning. good question came up -- even though this is a small handgun, are a 2 year old's hands big enough to grip around the handle AND pull a trigger that requires 7 lbs of force? did the mother have the gun modified to require less force (3-4 lbs)?

1/1/2015 1:06:03 PM

There is an argument raging on Facebook about whether you should keep a bullet in the chamber when carrying your weapon.

Lots of people saying you are an idiot for not doing it, lots of people saying you are an idiot if you do.

It would seem to me if you are just going about your business not having the bullet in the chamber would be the way to go, especially with kids. Sure there is a chance someone could run up to you and shoot you with little to no warning, but that is possible anyway. The main benefit of having a concealed weapon is no one knows you are armed, so you could wait to go for your gun until you have an opportunity to take the safety off and cock it. The alternative is you have a gun in your bag that if the safety gets bumped off you or some other innocent person gets killed.

There have been cops that accidentally killed themselves while getting dressed for work, so obviously just being trained and comfortable with firearms alone wont keep you from accidentally firing....

1/1/2015 1:21:32 PM

Clearly some of you have missed out on my phrase "There was no reason for THIS firearm to be kept in a ready to fire mode. None."

I have no problems with a weapon being kept in ready to fire mode, however, if you aren't in proper control of it anymore, ie it's away from your body, it shouldn't be. A ready to fire weapon should be on your person in your full control. Otherwise, what the hell is the point? Like I said, a toddler was able to grab her pistol and fire, what would have stopped a real criminal from grabbing it and shooting her?

If you don't have 1/10th of a second to unsafety your weapon, you don't really have a full 1-2 seconds to pull your weapon out. If you don't have a 1/10th of a second, how much time do you have to aim? If you don't have time to aim, why the fuck are you even firing?

[Edited on January 1, 2015 at 1:55 PM. Reason : a]

1/1/2015 1:48:33 PM

I call bullshit. All the forensics suggest the baby is incapable of firing the murder weapon. I think hes being framed and the media has not talked to hianlawyers or even mentioned his side of the story.

1/1/2015 3:50:44 PM

Most people have discussed generally the incapability of the child to grip the pistol or the mechanics of the safety, if any.

But nobody has yet discussed the inherent nature of the impractical scenario surrounding how the child absorbed the recoil upon discharge of a 9mm caliber weapon. It would be enough to cause serious injury to the child.

Reality is that the child would likely be seriously injured even if he successfully pulled the trigger while gripping the pistol.
The recoil would be enough to either send the weapon flying out of his hands and skirting across the aisle or to completely knock him down, cause him a concussion, or to lose a finger or a part of his hand as the slide moves back in discharging the round.

The whole thing seems very impractical and suspicious.

1/1/2015 3:56:17 PM

Haha, is it that hard for you to admit that this lady was responsible for her own death?

1/1/2015 4:06:00 PM

I would find it more believable if she were Mama June, the mother of Honey Boo Boo.

I would find it less believable if she were a nuclear scientist working at a joint Department of Defense, Department of Energy Compound.

Mama June does not write nor contribute to papers entitled

"Cold crucible induction melter studies for making glass ceramic waste forms: A feasibility assessment



Glass ceramics are being developed to immobilize fission products, separated from used nuclear fuel by aqueous reprocessing, into a stable waste form suitable for disposal in a geological repository. This work documents the glass ceramic formulation at bench scale and for a scaled melter test performed in a pilot-scale (approximately 1/4 scale) cold crucible induction melter (CCIM). Melt viscosity, electrical conductivity, and crystallization behavior upon cooling were measured on a small set of compositions to select a formulation for melter testing. Property measurements also identified a temperature range for melter operation and cooling profiles necessary to crystallize the targeted phases in the waste form. Bench scale and melter run results successfully demonstrate the processability of the glass ceramic using the CCIM melter technology.
Jarrod Crum [Pacific Northwest National Laboratory (PNNL), Richland, WA (United States); Vince Maio [Idaho National Laboratory (INL), Idaho Falls, ID (United States); John McCloy [Pacific Northwest National Laboratory (PNNL), Richland, WA (United States); Clark Scott [Idaho National Laboratory (INL), Idaho Falls, ID (United States); Brian Riley [Pacific Northwest National Laboratory (PNNL), Richland, WA (United States); Brad Benefiel [Idaho National Laboratory (INL), Idaho Falls, ID (United States); John Vienna [Pacific Northwest National Laboratory (PNNL), Richland, WA (United States); Kip Archibald [Idaho National Laboratory (INL), Idaho Falls, ID (United States); Carmen Rodriguez [Pacific Northwest National Laboratory (PNNL), Richland, WA (United States); Veronica Rutledge [Idaho National Laboratory (INL), Idaho Falls, ID (United States); Zihua Zhu [Pacific Northwest National Laboratory (PNNL), Richland, WA (United States); Joe Ryan [Pacific Northwest National Laboratory (PNNL), Richland, WA (United States); Matthew Olszta [Pacific Northwest National Laboratory (PNNL), Richland, WA (United States)
2014-01-01"


I have decided to read one of her publications in her honor. You should too.

http://www.osti.gov/scitech/biblio/1111037


[Edited on January 1, 2015 at 4:23 PM. Reason : ]

1/1/2015 4:15:30 PM

You've never met an extremely intelligent person who was irresponsible? One that lacked common sense?

1/1/2015 4:20:12 PM

Listen, government conspiracies never involve the assassination of advanced nuclear scientists, so you're probably right.

I apologize for speculation. She was probably just an irresponsible fool.

1/1/2015 4:25:00 PM

She was such a stupid redneck that didn't know how to keep her kid out of her purse that she couldn't help with her stupid authoring.

I mean what a fucking moron. Look at this dribble she published:

Quote :

"Tritium Specific Adsorption Simulation Utilizing the OSPREY Model During the processing of used nuclear fuel, volatile radionuclides will be discharged to the atmosphere if no recovery processes are in place to limit their release. The volatile radionuclides of concern are 3H, 14C, 85Kr, and 129I. Methods are being developed, via adsorption and absorption unit operations, to capture these radionuclides. It is necessary to model these unit operations to aid in the evaluation of technologies and in the future development of an advanced used nuclear fuel processing plant. A collaboration between Fuel Cycle Research and Development Offgas Sigma Team member INL and a NEUP grant including ORNL, Syracuse University, and Georgia Institute of Technology has been formed to develop off gas models and support off gas research. This report is discusses the development of a tritium specific adsorption model. Using the OSPREY model and integrating it with a fundamental level isotherm model developed under and experimental data provided by the NEUP grant, the tritium specific adsorption model was developed."

1/1/2015 4:29:01 PM

I'm confused here, what is it you're doing? Are you implying that just because she was a nuclear scientist, she was always responsible in regards to the safety and security of her weapon?

1/1/2015 4:31:29 PM

*drivel

1/1/2015 4:34:26 PM

This is a stupid fucking debate

New Topic. Check out international news:

Quote :

"The sister of a leading Iranian nuclear physicist widely believed to have been assassinated by Israel as part of an effort to derail the Islamic Republic’s drive to create nuclear weapons says her brother was murdered by Iran ’s Revolutionary Guard (IRI) because he wouldn’t cooperate with the effort to divert nuclear activities from peaceful purposes."

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Iranian-nuclear-physicist-killed-by-Revolutionary-Guard-not-Israel-relative-claims-376656

heh stupid israelis with their stupid policies

1/1/2015 4:34:30 PM

Aw, are you getting mad because you're wrong?

1/1/2015 4:35:52 PM

I admit defeat, for sure.

These events only happen overseas. You win.

1/1/2015 4:36:40 PM

So the baby had been recruited by Mossad?

1/1/2015 4:40:05 PM

A conspiracy to kill what appears to be a low level nuclear scientist is clearly more likely than an person making a mistake in securing a weapon.

Got it.

Oh, and this incident was caught on video and witnessed by many.

Sure.

[Edited on January 1, 2015 at 4:41 PM. Reason : a]

1/1/2015 4:40:20 PM

Show me one valid link to the actual surveillance video and I will paypal you one thousand dollars.


while I wait



here's some more reading

Quote :

"Israel teams with terror group to kill Iran's nuclear scientists, U.S. officials tell NBC News"

http://rockcenter.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/02/08/10354553-israel-teams-with-terror-group-to-kill-irans-nuclear-scientists-us-officials-tell-nbc-news

I found this article from a possibly unreliable source, always buying into conspiracy theories and publishing complete garbage, called "NBC news".

[Edited on January 1, 2015 at 4:44 PM. Reason : ]

1/1/2015 4:41:34 PM

Why would they release that video?

Or is the entire Sheriff's office/employees of walmart who watched the video/witnesses in on this?

[Edited on January 1, 2015 at 4:45 PM. Reason : a]

1/1/2015 4:45:19 PM

So anyway, back to the Mainstream Media Narrative:

So Mama June was shopping at Wal-Mart and her honey boo boo shot her.

We repeat, Mama June is not a nuclear scientist, repeat not a nuclear scientist who is involved in Defense work.

1/1/2015 4:48:44 PM

You bore me.

1/1/2015 4:49:27 PM

the Walmart manager witnessed the incident and took the gun from the kid. that puts to rest the discussion of the gun falling out and accidentally discharging if it hit the floor

http://www.sltrib.com/news/2010228-155/boy-in-idaho-wal-mart-shooting-unzipped

1/1/2015 4:50:48 PM

Reports are in from the government that every single project she was working on was published in her papers concerning nuclear design and research.

Her professor went on the record to claim, "She was just one of those people that, you know, she designed some shit a few years ago and then she just stopped developing things. There was nothing classified about her work for the DoD. I don't understand why anyone would even suggest her work was of value to anyone."

1/1/2015 4:59:40 PM

I can't tell if you're trolling or legitimately this stupid.

1/1/2015 5:01:48 PM