Quote :

"It doesn't make you an extremist, but it does make you pitiful if you can't distinguish between the Muslims who want to build the community center and the Muslims who participated in the 9/11 attacks"

Pitiful? Far from it. Im not even a christian, but I can understand how they would not want that there. Im not going to fucking protest the matter, but holy shit, I am allowed to understand where she's coming from right?

5/5/2015 1:19:30 AM

Quote :

"A person that doesnt want a mosque within an arms reach of the twin towers doesnt make you an extremist."

LOL yes it does. I'm not sure how this isn't plainly obvious.

Mosques had nothing to do with 9/11, the group wanting to build the mosque had nothing to do with 9/11, America is a country that is built on freedom of/from religion, and free speech means accepting when a private group makes a private transaction to purchase land not even visible from the twin towers to build a mosque (and when other mosques exist within the same radius).

There's literally no reason to oppose the mosque where it was going, unless you have some irrational, blind hatred for all Muslims, just like Bin Laden had irrational hatred for America.

5/5/2015 1:22:26 AM

It does not make you an extremist. It makes you someone with an opinion. Do you know what an extremist is? And do you know what it takes to be an extremist?

5/5/2015 1:25:48 AM

Quote :

"when a private group makes a private transaction to purchase land not even visible from the twin tower"

This sounds familiar..

5/5/2015 1:30:05 AM

It's extremist to want to use the power of government to push your worst religious beliefs. This is what some versions of sharia law want, this is what ISIS wants, and this is what some people who opposed the mosque near WTCs wanted.

There may be other useful definitions of extremism, but that's what i'm using here.

I get where people who opposed the mosque are coming from-- they're fearful idiots, but these aren't people worth following or respecting, or who should be anywhere close to making decisions in government.

[Edited on May 5, 2015 at 1:46 AM. Reason : ]

5/5/2015 1:30:40 AM

Quote :

"Pitiful? Far from it. Im not even a christian, but I can understand how they would not want that there. Im not going to fucking protest the matter, but holy shit, I am allowed to understand where she's coming from right?"

I'm not gonna pretend like I don't understand people's prejudices.

But, without getting to much into the details, you should be able to put your mind on the matter and make a distinction between Muslim people and Muslim terrorists.

And you definitely don't want to be identifying with Pamela Geller.


This is one of the more ridiculous exchanges I've endured in quite a while. I thought there might be something interesting I was missing. Blah.

5/5/2015 1:32:51 AM

Geller is the worst kind of activist. She makes money off the lowest common denominator. Maybe the comparison to WBC was a little off but not by far.

I had a cousin who worked in the WTC, grew up 45 mins away and have family in the FD in Queens and I didn't give a fuck about a mosque being built.

[Edited on May 5, 2015 at 6:38 AM. Reason : and I am christian not that it should matter in this discussion]

5/5/2015 6:37:51 AM

For the people who were making fun of my thread on page one...this is exactly the kind of discourse I was looking for. Again, wasn't trying to be funny.

I guess moron doesn't see how a group wanting to build a mosque might be a slap in the face to those in NY who lost friends and family on 9/11. Who knows, the people opposed to the mosque probably thought that there was some facetious intention by the Islamic Cultural Center of NY to place it so close. But I bet those same people would be just as adamant against Westboro Baptist wanting to build a church near Arlington Nat'l Cemetary.

And I really don't think moron is the biggest caricature of a liberal around here. thegoodlife is far more nuttier than he is.

But I think the bigger problem is everyone being afraid that they'll offend someone else. It is absolutely ridiculous that the media has a list of words not to use around Hillary because it might be taken as sexist in some wierd way. And from the Entertainment section, someone was calling the Kingsman movie homophobic because it was making jokes about anal something, I don't even remember what it was. Not everyone has the same sensibilities, and in a country where so many people come from so many different backgrounds, they're going to get offended at something. We all just need to grow thicker skin.

And hate speech...defining what violence-insighting hate speech is is going to be very difficult. If I say something about Islam, and that causes someone to shoot up a Starbucks trying to take me out, did I incite violence? Is that any different than some mosque who is telling its people to go shoot me in Starbucks because I said something they didn't like?

5/5/2015 7:44:14 AM

Quote :

"I guess moron doesn't see how a group wanting to build a mosque might be a slap in the face to those in NY who lost friends and family on 9/11. "

We shouldn't make decisions based on fear, reaction, ignorance and emotion. As I said I was closer than most on here I'm sure to 9/11 but that doesn't give me the right to infringe on other people's rights.

And the kind of ignorance on display in that case is similar to those who would want to curtail free speech because of this incident.

5/5/2015 7:53:18 AM

Quote :

"Moving the goalposts. There are going to be more people in Texas walking around armed than in France."

lol no it's fucking not. you were implying that these guys died because texus is murrica and 2nd amendment bullshit.

5/5/2015 8:31:22 AM

I'd like to note that I attempted to edit insighting to inciting but it was too late. I'm an idiot.

5/5/2015 8:32:13 AM

Texas blows. It's no surprise she had a group like that to pander to in that shithole.

It's Chit Chat, so...

5/5/2015 8:41:55 AM

can't say I like anyone involved with this.

Also the mosque was proposed in 2010 and there are several already in the financial district. The builder who still owns the property is a half Egyptian half polish guy from Brooklyn. It's a pissing contest between rich people that sucked in abunch of mouth breathers.

5/5/2015 9:25:38 AM

Quote :

"thegoodlife is far more nuttier than he is."

oh word?

it'd be pretty funny to see you back that one up.

5/5/2015 10:19:30 AM

Word.

5/5/2015 10:31:38 AM

so you can't back it up and you're making an argument that was deemed ridiculous 5 years ago

5/5/2015 10:35:07 AM

Quote :

"Imagine that, someone doesnt want a mosque within arms reach of the twin towers. They must be right wing extremists."

just because someone is not violent doesn't mean that they can't be an extremist, being violent is not a requirement of extremist ideologies. Gert is an extremist, Geller is an extremist, those opposed to the "ground zero mosque" are ideological extremists.



[Edited on May 5, 2015 at 10:42 AM. Reason : does someone need to go all aaronburro and post the definition of extremism?]

5/5/2015 10:36:41 AM

My argument is only that, based on your posts, you are further left than moron. But both of you have posts sometimes where I'm just like "wtf, did he really say that?"

I'm not gonna dig through years of posts to prove that point, I don't have to, anybody can just go into the TSB and look at exchanges between you, moron and [user]yowillyo[/user] to see.

[Edited on May 5, 2015 at 10:37 AM. Reason : name?]

5/5/2015 10:37:18 AM

it'd be kind of hard to look for those exchanges if they don't exist

5/5/2015 10:39:53 AM

Quote :

"I guess moron doesn't see how a group wanting to build a mosque might be a slap in the face to those in NY who lost friends and family on 9/11. "

Many of those New Yorkers who lost friends and family on 9/11 don't think it's a slap in the face. They realize that Islam is a religion, and those that committed the act were psychopaths who abused the religion, and don't represent the religion or the members who would be attending the mosque.

Quote :

"But I think the bigger problem is everyone being afraid that they'll offend someone else."

You mean like offending those in NY who lost friends and family on 9/11? Isn't that what you're saying? That building a mosque there would offend them?

and lol at TKEShultz thinking he's actually "explaining" things in here. You're just spouting your opinion with nothing to back it up.

[Edited on May 5, 2015 at 11:21 AM. Reason : and yes, Geller is an extremists, no doubt about it]

5/5/2015 11:21:11 AM

The guy who owns 51 and 45 Park is just going to build condos that the people who protested will never have enough money to afford.

Everyone wins!

5/5/2015 11:31:42 AM

Geller most definitely is an extremist. I don't think TKE was arguing against that. He was just saying that not wanting a mosque near the 9/11 site doesn't make you an extremist.

5/5/2015 11:54:35 AM

I did a 5 second Google search and found two mosques nearby. Not wanting a mosque in downtown Manhattan isn't an extreme view. Just a stupid one.

I'm sure there's a sex dungeon nearby as well.

5/5/2015 12:17:50 PM

that logic doesn't work

5/5/2015 12:30:56 PM

This is chit chat!

5/5/2015 12:49:08 PM

http://dailycaller.com/2011/03/26/stop-al-jazeeras-expansion-in-the-united-states/

Lols. Forgot about this. Real champion of free speech that twat is... If its hers.

5/5/2015 3:38:31 PM

I just hope she remains relevant because it pisses people off so much when she is, and they are the ones making her relevant

IRRONNAYYY

5/5/2015 4:39:28 PM

Can you explain why it makes you happy that she pisses people off? I don't understand that.

5/5/2015 4:52:45 PM

I hope that the Westboro Baptist Church shows up at the next military funeral with their signs. Its hilarious how people get pissed at them!

5/5/2015 5:14:28 PM

some real nutty shit

5/5/2015 5:54:15 PM

I love it when the KKK marches and says anti-semetic shit, it always gets people so worked up. LOL.

5/5/2015 5:55:26 PM

Remember when people gave TKE money? LOLOLOLZZZZZZ

5/5/2015 6:47:46 PM

It's not ok to victim shame unless the victim does not agree with your worldview. Then it's ok to attack the victim.

5/5/2015 6:57:43 PM

Quote :

"rjrumfel: For the people who were making fun of my thread on page one...this is exactly the kind of discourse I was looking for. Again, wasn't trying to be funny."

How old are you? And why are you talking about Starbucks? And are you seriously blathering about anal sex and The Kingsman in this thread?

And, above all, how can you possibly mistake any of this shit for "discourse"?

Seriously...how old are you?

5/5/2015 7:39:26 PM

I'm ok with victim blaming when it involves abunch of desert religions in a dick swinging contest.

5/5/2015 9:32:21 PM

^^Are you kidding? This thread is about as much discourse as you're gonna get in chit chat.

5/5/2015 9:43:08 PM

Quote :

"I guess moron doesn't see how a group wanting to build a mosque might be a slap in the face to those in NY who lost friends and family on 9/11. Who knows, the people opposed to the mosque probably thought that there was some facetious intention by the Islamic Cultural Center of NY to place it so close. But I bet those same people would be just as adamant against Westboro Baptist wanting to build a church near Arlington Nat'l Cemetery."

LOL, is this serious? I really expected more from you rjrumfel, if this isn't a joke.

You realize there were muslims that died in 9/11 too? They'd be happy to have a mosque. And it's not really relevant anyway. Just because some sad person or idiot very wrongly hates all muslims and mosques because of 9/11 doesn't mean we cave to their dumb opinions. I guess in a democracy, we're always somewhat beholden to the tyranny of the masses, but any sensible, intelligent person will see this for what it is.

It's ironic that the way some people choose to respond to religious extremists whose ideology is to suppress other ideologies, is to become extremists themselves oppressing anything they see as vaguely reminiscent of the group they're wanting to target. Amazing.

If you want to piss off ISIS and Alqaeda, you'd openly embrace and galavant with muslims in America (they are by and large just like you) and show the nuts that they're wrong about Americans and what our society stands for (ostensibly). Instead, you play into their hands by working even harder to oppress muslims and demonize them. There are 2 groups that are happy about the events in texas: Islamic extremists, and religious conservatives. They are peas in a pod*.

*both hate gays, both hate evolution, both hate religions that aren't theirs, both want more religion in their respective governments, both are happy to keep fighting each other indefinitely, neither attempts being rational

5/5/2015 11:51:18 PM

dude also equated an entire religion to the Westboro Baptist Church, because 9/11.

[Edited on May 6, 2015 at 12:05 AM. Reason : something something nutty, though]

5/6/2015 12:01:48 AM

Oh ffs why is this being touted as a free speech conference in some circles now? It was an anti-Islam event headed by two known bigots. Just like any conference it should be allowed to be conducted peacefully and without incident

However the idea that this was done out of some advocacy of free speech is utter lunacy. Especially because said bigot has spent her entire adult life trying to curtail free speech of Muslims.

[Edited on May 6, 2015 at 10:16 AM. Reason : X]

[Edited on May 6, 2015 at 10:19 AM. Reason : Autocorrects make me sound illiterate sometimes]

5/6/2015 10:13:46 AM

Quote :

"It's not ok to victim shame unless the victim does not agree with your worldview. Then it's ok to attack the victim."

have you had enough time to figure out why this statement is silly and dumb?

5/6/2015 10:17:06 AM

They want free speech for themselves but not people building mosques or anyone who's a different religion than themselves.

I hate mosques as much as anyone, but If we're going to ban mosques, we should ban all dogmagic religious buildings, they are equally cancerous.

5/6/2015 10:18:00 AM

Quote :

""It's not ok to victim shame unless the victim does not agree with your worldview. Then it's ok to attack the victim.""

Yeah, I meant to comment on that early. This discussion has been had multiple times: It's different to be bigoted against a group of people because of their religion/race/gender/sexual orientation versus being intolerant and "bigoted" against those bigots who vocally and actively try to oppress people because of their religion/race/gender/sexuallity. Being vocally intolerant of extremist bigots like Geller is not the same as her bigoted actions against all muslims... with that said, it is her right to stage publicity stunts like this without fear of violence, but she's a terrible human being for doing so. Just like those Westboro Baptist Church bigots.

(sorry, that was way too wordy and not worded well)

5/6/2015 10:24:32 AM

Quote :

"it is her right to stage publicity stunts like this without fear of violence, but she's a terrible human being for doing so. Just like those Westboro Baptist Church bigots."

I think people misunderstand how free speech works. They should be allowed to hold such events without fear of violence from our government. However, just as in all cases, just because you are allowed to say what you want in this country without being thrown in prison for it, doesn't mean you shouldnt expect any retaliation from others whether lawful or not.

5/6/2015 10:47:50 AM

Violence or censorship. But yes.

Again this wasn't done to take a stand on free speech. I can't stress this enough.

5/6/2015 10:54:15 AM

Oh I agree with you, I think it was an event put on to piss people off and it succeeded. The shooters weren't against free speech and the event wasn't put on to promote it.

5/6/2015 10:58:27 AM

http://www.vox.com/2015/5/4/8545831/texas-attack-pamela-geller

This sums up my opinion as well as I could have hoped for. The fact that a ton of people are holding her up as a bastion of free speech right now is downright scary..

5/6/2015 2:46:23 PM

A Jew from new york! Telling Texans what to do???!!!

Why I never.

5/6/2015 9:03:20 PM

Another nut trying to piss people off for the sake of pissing people off (and intolerant extremism) by holding another Mohammed-drawing rally outside of a mosque.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/29/us/mohammed-cartoon-contest/index.html

Quote :

""This is in response to the recent attack in Texas where 2 armed terrorist(s), with ties to ISIS, attempted Jihad," the event's Facebook page said. Some 600 people say they're attending. It's scheduled to start at 6:15 p.m., about the time evening prayers are taking place inside the center. The rally also features its own cartoon contest, similar to the one targeted in Texas. "I think the whole thing, the cartoon contest especially, I think it's stupid and ridiculous," Ritzheimer said, "but it's what needs to take place in order to expose the true colors of Islam.""

[Edited on May 29, 2015 at 2:23 PM. Reason : ]

5/29/2015 2:20:49 PM