....and the latch is right by his left arm the entire time.

6/14/2015 8:51:59 AM

^Damn! That one is kind of Darwin award material. I wonder if it would have opened if she had pulled on the handle, or if it was locked from the outside too?

6/14/2015 11:08:49 AM

^she tried. there is no outside door release that works when battery dead

[Edited on June 14, 2015 at 11:28 AM. Reason : have to use key in rear hatch ]

6/14/2015 11:27:02 AM

wow, I completely agree with aaronburro and it feels weird

6/14/2015 12:02:42 PM

this isn't some new thing. the car is a 2007 year model.

6/14/2015 12:24:09 PM

Outside door touch pad is electric, inside door latch on floor is manual and works like a charm. Its not a bad design because people are too stupid to learn about their car. It's common knowledge that the C6 corvette (06-13) have this design, its not GM's fault if people are ignorant and choose to not check through the manual/look around the interior of their cars. Now if this was a faulty part locking them in, by all means blame GM, but this is ignorance.

My only question is how does a hillbilly like the one in that video afford a 50k sports car.

6/14/2015 1:02:02 PM

It's a bad design if it takes a person familiar with cars more than 60seconds to find it. For the 50000th time, this is a safety critical piece of equipment. This isn't your windshield wipers or radio knobs. This is the egress point from a confined space. It seems that every other car manufacturer thinks a normal door handle is a good idea, but the C6 engineers don't. Instead, they put it where you expect to find the trunk release, the fuel release, or the hood release.

By your logic, if GM put the door latch hidden under the floorboard behind the driver's seat, it'd be a fine design, because it's up to the driver to learn how to open his door, and once he does that, everything is golden! That's absurd.

6/14/2015 3:23:27 PM

Did GM put the door handle under carpet? Your hypothetical situation is stupid and has no bearing on this discussion.



FYI the C7 has the same design, so if it was flawed or they were at risk for being sued I'm sure they would have put those ugly outdated pull handles back in to protect stupid people from themselves.

You are also ignoring the fact that this idiot had 4 ways to get out, and he chose none of them. The car in question has a removable top held by 3 latches, whats your excuse for him not seeing them? Good luck with a lawsuit when the handle is clearly marked and its in the manual. You can't sue people because you are too damn stupid to thumb through your manual.


BTW The release for the tesla model S rear doors is hidden under the carpet, suck on that.

6/14/2015 3:32:31 PM

No, but they didn't put it clearly in your view, which is the point. Every other door handle is clearly in view when you look at the door. This one isn't. That GM continued this incredibly poor design into another model is not evidence that it's great; it's evidence that GM is stupid.

And I'm not ignoring anything. I've already said that this guy deserves some blame, but not the lion's share as you allege. But when you are dealing with SAFETY FUCKING CRITICAL equipment, a point you refuse to address, you don't hide the shit out of view and in a location that is normally used by completely different equipment. You literally shouldn't have to read a manual to figure out how open a door. Period. If your expectation for operating a door handle is that someone should read a manual, then you are being completely unreasonable. It's an egress: the instructions should either be in giant letters with arrows and diagrams on it, or it should be intuitively obvious. "Reach between down beside my leg to a place where a door handle has never, in the history of the world, been placed before, and pull what is usually the fuel trunk lever" is not intuitively obvious. Expecting someone who is panicking, which, by the way, makes you generally much stupider, to thumb through his manual or look in a completely non-standard place for a safety critical door-latch, is unreasonable. If his car gets flipped off a bridge, do you expect him to thumb through his manual? Or pull a door handle that's on the door, like it's always been?


As for Tesla, I'm glad that they are continuing the stupidity of hiding door latches from plain site for no good reason. I look forward to the lawsuits.

6/14/2015 3:42:46 PM

I personally don't care for the electronic latches. I like those to be mechanical, but those too can fail. Then what? Shit happens. The worst thing you can do in a situation like that is panic. Don't lose your composure and try to calmly solve the problem. It's sad this guy didn't make it. The top is removable and completely mechanical. There's an exit via the rear hatch. There's several ways of exiting the vehicle safely should it be electronically disabled. The dealership/previous owner should have made sure to gone over these details with the deceased at the time of the sale, just as a friendly disclaimer. Ultimately, as BJ said, you should read the owners manual. Once it's under your ownership and hands, it's your responsibility. Not the manufacturers, not the previous owners, not the public's. Yours. "With great power comes great responsibility." - Uncle Ben.

Know what you are buying. It's the consumer's responsibility to educate themselves on what they are buying. No one is forcing them to buy one thing or another. It's the manufacturer's responsibility to publish, disclose, and make publicly available any information critical to their product.

^ Your super specific example is quite ludicrous. Don't try to come up with some fantasy situation just to support your point. It just weakens your claim.

Also, with your logic, all cars with power windows should be mandated with manual turn handles nearby just in case you need to vent or escape from the car and the battery is disconnected, dead, or you cant get your car in accessory mode.

[Edited on June 14, 2015 at 6:59 PM. Reason : .]

6/14/2015 6:44:26 PM

ITT people who preach small government advocate more government intervention to protect stupid people from themselves.

[Edited on June 14, 2015 at 9:27 PM. Reason : ]

6/14/2015 9:27:12 PM

Quote :

"I personally don't care for the electronic latches. I like those to be mechanical, but those too can fail. Then what?"

A dead battery equals all things that use electricity not working. When a normal door handle breaks on the driver side then you just open a different one since all personal vehicles have multiple doors. The odds that all non-electronic handles breaks at the exact same time are not good.

6/14/2015 9:29:24 PM

Yes, Hiro, customers should educate themselves, but manufacturers should also make design choices for things like a door latch based on safety and the possibility that the person looking for it hasn't read the manual. Yes, you should read the manual. However, opening a freaking DOOR shouldn't require reading the manual to figure it out. That's the point. We're talking about OPENING A DOOR. Not how to turn on the windshield wipers or operate the radio or turn on the seat warmers. My point about the car being flipped off the bridge proves that point. It's not weak, it's the exact reason why how to open a car door should be intuitively obvious: because when you are panicking, you aren't thinking straight, and you sure as hell don't have time read a manual. "Oh, you should have read it earlier" is a TERRIBLE excuse for not designing an egress from a confined space in an intuitive manner. There's no good reason for the door handle to be hidden from view, other than "it looks cooler." "It looks cooler" is NOT a factor you should consider when designing an emergency exit.

As for your point about window, that's absurd. If you've got a door latch in a normal place, then you don't need to worry about the windows. The window isn't, and probably shouldn't, be the primary emergency exit, so its operation without power is not high on the list of priorities. The freaking door, however, is.



And let me ask a serious question... Do you really think it's reasonable to say that a person should have to read the owner's manual in order to figure out how to open the door?

6/14/2015 11:49:57 PM

You're a protectionist. Okay, got it.

RTFM!

Nothing should come of this. This isn't Chevy's fault.

[Edited on June 16, 2015 at 4:29 AM. Reason : .]

6/16/2015 4:27:50 AM

For once I'm not in agreement with burro. As cars become increasingly complex in their operation, it is up to the owner to understand how their car works. I realize that most people haven't even glanced at their car manual, but why wouldn't you want to know how your car works?

I have a 2008 Jeep G Cherokee, and as soon as I got the thing, I noticed that it didn't operate on a traditional key, so I opened up the manual and read about the fob and what to do if the battery dies. If I were to buy a car with non-standard door handles, you better believe I'm going to open up the manual and learn about them.

We're already inundated with warning signs about airbags, and how to sit around them when we enter our car. Do we really want warning signs all over the interior of our cars, warning the stupid people how to operate their vehicles most basic functions?

6/16/2015 7:11:39 AM

It's a horrible door design. Why would you take something that is easily operated by hand and make it electric? A freaking door handle is really a no-brainer. Dude was an idiot and GM's design sucks.

Cars getting more complicated is one thing, but as they say, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". I'd like to hear the minutes from the committee that made the decision to incorporate solenoids and switches AND a mechanical release... "well yes Bob it's heavier BUT the parts will wear out faster and get the cars into the dealerships more often..."

6/16/2015 8:23:41 AM

There's nothing wrong with the design of that door latch. Apparently most of the people in this thread are automobile ignorant, as there are a LOT of high end cars that use electrical actuation to open the doors. It's not a new thing.

It's unfortunate this guy paid for his ignorance with his life, but he had nobody to blame but himself. You gotta read the manual. I know most people don't, and they're stupid for it. An automobile is most people's second most expensive purchase (after a house). Why the fuck would you not read the manual?!?

6/16/2015 8:44:05 AM

Is there some reason for making the doors electric instead of mechanical or is it just a fancy "wow" thing? It seems to me that functionality is reduced with an electric latch, which I'd say is pretty certain considering they require a mechanical backup.

In an emergency even an informed manual-reader is going to reach for the handle on the door first, since this is the one they are used to using. Depending on the situation the seconds lost could be critical.

[Edited on June 16, 2015 at 8:54 AM. Reason : d]

6/16/2015 8:50:41 AM

Doors have been "electric" since at least the 50's...I'm not 100% but I think Cadillac had prototype electric doors back then.

6/16/2015 10:37:58 AM

There is no such thing as a dumb user, only dumb design.

6/16/2015 11:38:46 AM

^^take a close look at most high end sports cars. You won't see exterior door handles anywhere on several of them. Just a hidden switch, which is electronic. It's form over function.

6/16/2015 1:23:10 PM

Quote :

"You're a protectionist. Okay, got it. RTFM! Nothing should come of this. This isn't Chevy's fault."

You didn't answer the question. Do you think it's reasonable that a person should have to read the manual to figure out how to open the door to a car?

rjrumfel, TKE-Teg, you guys, too.

6/17/2015 9:53:27 PM

At the very least, ESPECIALLY if you're the owner of the fucking thing, I expect you to recognize that a tiny little push button isn't just going to automagically open your door unless it's electric powered. It shouldn't even take a few seconds to make the leap to, "oh, where's the mechanical lever/latch?" If you then can't find it on your own, which would be pitiful, yes, I expect you to read the manual like you would for any other basic thing you don't know about your car.

[Edited on June 17, 2015 at 10:23 PM. Reason : ]

6/17/2015 10:20:29 PM

The moment the sales guy shows me that push button, that's my first thought. Sure, I probably look immediately for the manual handle and if I can't find it, I ask the sales guy right there. I think everyone here agrees that these are things you should do, including reading the owner's manual. But my question still remains: should a car owner be expected to read the owner's manual in order to learn how to open the door.

Put maybe a little differently:
Should the door handle be located in such an inconspicuous spot or operate in such an unintuitive way that it requires the owner's manual to discover the proper operation?

6/17/2015 10:26:18 PM

Would you get into this car without reading the manual????

^ Yes if said owner is buying a car with electric door handles they should read their manual if they can't take the 5 seconds to look around the interior and locate the handle.

[Edited on June 17, 2015 at 10:29 PM. Reason : ,]

6/17/2015 10:26:47 PM

If you're not going to answer a simple question, then just shut up. Everyone knows you're a troll on here. Shut up and let the grown-ups talk.

6/17/2015 10:28:50 PM

Do you not see the answer, you fucking moron.

"Grown ups" you must not be referring to yourself.

6/17/2015 10:30:49 PM

Quote :

"If you're not going to answer a simple question, then just shut up. Everyone knows you're a troll on here. Shut up and let the grown-ups talk."

6/17/2015 10:33:50 PM

https://www.chevrolet.com/content/dam/Chevrolet/northamerica/usa/nscwebsite/en/Home/Ownership/Manuals_and_Videos/02_pdf/2009_chevrolet_corvette_owners.pdf

See how long it takes you to find how to open the door.

^Moron.

[Edited on June 17, 2015 at 10:37 PM. Reason : ,]

6/17/2015 10:36:38 PM

Quote :

"If you're not going to answer a simple question, then just shut up. Everyone knows you're a troll on here. Shut up and let the grown-ups talk."

6/17/2015 10:37:42 PM

Stupid Ron Paul nut jockey.

6/17/2015 10:45:39 PM

Quote :

"If you're not going to answer a simple question, then just shut up. Everyone knows you're a troll on here. Shut up and let the grown-ups talk."

6/17/2015 10:46:18 PM

6/17/2015 10:49:32 PM

electronic button on the outside? fine

make it mechanical on the inside. it's easy to make a door handle inconspicuous

6/17/2015 11:10:30 PM

Not sure if it was mentioned in this thread, but the guy died here in 2015 but the car was a '07 Vette that he "recently purchased." That leads me to believe he probably didn't buy it from the dealership in which case they wouldn't have a Chevrolet car salesman having to mention the safety concerns. If some guy bought the car new in 2006 or 2007, drove it for 8-9 years and sold it to the old dude, and there weren't any problems with it he probably has no liability either. So I doubt anyone could win a class action suit since while I think it's a shitty design, Chevy could argue that they DO instruct their sales staff to inform clients of the issue, but they're not responsible for 3rd party sales.

6/17/2015 11:47:50 PM

many^ I'm going to go out on a fat limb and guess that the Ferrari has mechanical door latches.

^Good point. It's the buyer's responsibility to learn about the car, whether they're buying from a 3rd party or from the dealer. There are so many things you need to know about an individual vehicle that the manufacturer/dealer can't reasonably hand-feed you all the info for everything. I don't think Chevy should be held liable for this particular incident. Buyer beware. Don't buy piles of shit designed by committees with pointless fancy bullshit. PLEASE.

Also, someone, please, someone provide a reasonable defense for using a power latch instead of a passive mechanical device for opening the door other than "because they do that sometimes with high end shit since a long time ago". I honestly don't get it. Open my eyes, blind me with your light now.

[Edited on June 18, 2015 at 3:30 AM. Reason : d]

6/18/2015 3:02:32 AM

Pfft, who gives a shit if that 13 year old ferrari design has a mechanical latch.

The quarter million dollar mp4-12c doesn't

But it does have electric latches that look like mechanical latches to fool all the fucktards that don't pay attention.

I'd imagine the million dollar P1 is similar.

Quote :

"Also, someone, please, someone provide a reasonable defense for using a power latch instead of a passive mechanical device for opening the door other than "because they do that sometimes with high end shit since a long time ago". I honestly don't get it. Open my eyes, blind me with your light now."

I'm sure each car that uses it has a different reason. For the Vette, the windows seat deep in the top seals when they're all the way up. If you just opened the door with them up all the time it would fuck up the window alignment and just generally tear things up. When you hit the electric latch button, the window rolls down slightly so it'll clear the seal.

[Edited on June 18, 2015 at 3:50 AM. Reason : ]

6/18/2015 3:37:02 AM

gah. not a good reason. form should follow function. grumble grumble

[Edited on June 18, 2015 at 3:53 AM. Reason : fucking reading]

[Edited on June 18, 2015 at 3:56 AM. Reason : so then you have to add an extra device to have it operate in 'adverse' situations]

6/18/2015 3:50:57 AM

It's either that or rely on the same retard owners that can't find a latch to roll the window down slightly every time they enter and exit the car and go bankrupt on warranty coverage resetting door windows

[Edited on June 18, 2015 at 3:58 AM. Reason : ]

6/18/2015 3:56:32 AM

haha, that would be the way

why can't shit just work?

My grandmother's BMW convertible slid the windows down when you pulled the door handle, but i'm pretty sure they were mechanical latches, and the first part of the motion triggered the window motors. It's still a shit design (evidenced by BWM using it), and with a different window sill design could be avoided. I'm still pretty sure this is dealership insurance, designed to fail, extra complication "no user serviceable parts" bullshit.

[Edited on June 18, 2015 at 4:00 AM. Reason : d]

6/18/2015 3:57:30 AM

There are probably way better ways already implemented that handle that window indexing shit, but that's what popped into my head. It makes sense. Whether that's the legitimate purpose, or even the sole purpose is beyond me

If you're going to use a frameless window design, what would else would you do other than seal that sucker up tight in the top seals?

[Edited on June 18, 2015 at 4:04 AM. Reason : ]

6/18/2015 4:00:26 AM

does it matter? the thing leaked like a sieve after the first few years anyway

[Edited on June 18, 2015 at 4:07 AM. Reason : hardtop = no excuse]

[Edited on June 18, 2015 at 4:08 AM. Reason : just look at the refridgerators with the barn doors and the funky seal that rotates into place]

6/18/2015 4:06:12 AM

lol


a byproduct, because this sure as hell isn't the reason for it, is you can't slim jim the thing. So, when you lock yourself out, the tow guy can't help you

[Edited on June 18, 2015 at 4:11 AM. Reason : ]

6/18/2015 4:08:16 AM

Man thanks. I was really frustrated for a while but the frameless window thing makes sense. Evidently the real issue here is fucking convertibles. Son of a bitch. Honestly the breaking in thing makes sense too. My old integra had frameless windows and that bitch was so easy to get into. After the 3rd time or so I could do it almost as quickly as with the key. Not sure why that car had frameless windows in the first place. Honda fucked up. The windows and the power seat belts were the worst things about that car.

[Edited on June 18, 2015 at 4:20 AM. Reason : maybe chevy could use a breakaway handle that manually actuates a latch when you pull hard enough]

6/18/2015 4:17:48 AM

Like you said, they could still do the rolldown shit with a mechanical handle, but maybe that's part of their reasoning? It could have just been simpler/cheaper to do it that way? Hell, who knows.

6/18/2015 1:02:56 PM

Quote :

"It's either that or rely on the same retard owners that can't find a latch to roll the window down slightly every time they enter and exit the car and go bankrupt on warranty coverage resetting door windows"

Or maybe don't design a door in such a way that merely opening it damages the window?

6/18/2015 11:14:35 PM

How would you solve the issue of a frameless window being sucked out at speed?

6/18/2015 11:25:58 PM

The moment you realize you are arguing with car ignorant people that see vehicles as appliances you will quit like I did.

6/19/2015 10:14:02 AM

Most cars are appliances. A corvette is not most cars.

[Edited on June 19, 2015 at 10:20 AM. Reason : I could possibly almost understand the bitching about the design if this was a Camry.]

6/19/2015 10:19:35 AM

http://m.ajc.com/news/news/national/couple-dies-after-keyless-car-mistakenly-left-gara/nmgXq/
Keyless entry can even kill you now adays. You would think the car would shut itself off after 15 mins or so if it's in park running

6/19/2015 12:12:46 PM