I wonder if the online forums where he discussed his plan are going to have any fingers pointed at them for 1) not making any known effort to alert authorities, 2) not attempting to shout him down from his idiotic plan, and 3) seemingly egging him on?

Maybe not. If 4chan is the really the forum he brought this up in, it is already known for being a cesspool of neckbearded troglodytes.

10/2/2015 9:27:26 AM

^

From what I understand there are so many of those threats daily that aren't serious it's like a cry wolf situation. There probably aren't resources to hunt down everyone who makes such a threat.

Quote :

"The media could form a pact amongst themselves to not talk about it, but with social media it would get talked about no matter what. "

Social Media is the media now, every large company has a department that spins and creates interest.

You seriously need to read this: http://www.amazon.com/Technopoly-The-Surrender-Culture-Technology/dp/0679745408

I work in technology in California and I don't even ride the tech dick like you.

[Edited on October 2, 2015 at 9:42 AM. Reason : a]

10/2/2015 9:42:18 AM

I can understand that. What im trying to get at is this, though..... this isnt the first time that someone has posted on 4chan about a mass murder, and then gone on to carry it out. At some point, it would seem, people would start to think "hey, there is something dreadfully wrong here where this site's culture of anonymity and social malevolence seems to attract and give a platform to home grown terrorists. If we are looking for a way to strip them of their support system and audience, we can start there...."

10/2/2015 10:17:06 AM

Probably impossible but with the NSA spying why not, why don't they just knock down every single door and send a swat team in for whenever they can trace one of these postings? I know there are ways to mask where you are posting from but the NSA has to have that down by now.

10/2/2015 10:20:08 AM

Quote :

"I can understand that. What im trying to get at is this, though..... this isnt the first time that someone has posted on 4chan about a mass murder, and then gone on to carry it out. At some point, it would seem, people would start to think "hey, there is something dreadfully wrong here where this site's culture of anonymity and social malevolence seems to attract and give a platform to home grown terrorists. If we are looking for a way to strip them of their support system and audience, we can start there....""

I was just thinking about this yesterday. some areas of 4chan and reddit are saturated with insecure, anti-social misfit betas who wallow in their misery and blame the rest of society for their shortcomings. Like minded gentlesirs tend to bounce delusional thoughts and ideas off each other and reinforce the idea that its completely society's fault for ostracizing them, and should seek revenge. It only takes one of them to act on their frustration and cause tragedies such as these.

10/2/2015 10:26:47 AM

^^ && ^^^

Sheer numbers vs resources. How many NSA agents are available to knock down doors? Do we really want to live in more of a police state to stop the few killings that happen each year? I think it's a culture problem for sure, and there is something to be said about the wallowing vs hardening the fuck up to find something to work towards.

Quote :

"dreadfully wrong here where this site's culture of anonymity"

Google, the NSA et all can't mine your data and market to you if you are anonymous. This is the true reason for anonymity == bad arguments that come up around these boards.

10/2/2015 10:34:34 AM

I dont know man, there seems to be a much simpler remedy. Which would be the FBI telling the site admins "if you cant keep tabs on your userbase and keep them from discussing/plotting to murder people, then we are going to start keeping tabs on you. Period." That seems like a great way to cut down on false positives and glory seeking.

Then, if the admins still insist on retaining the culture of anonymity, they would still have a pretty good reason to stiffle that particular aspect of social malevolence.



If they can pwnt Kim Dotcom for providing a platform for file sharing, Im sure they could stop a few neckbeards from egging each other on to shoot up a theatre or classroom.


The culture, again, is probably the big problem on that site though. Loose, if any, moderation...right? In my opinion, a critical function of an admin or moderator on a message board is to influence/guide discussion, while making sure the userbase is enjoying themselves in a safe discussion. This is becoming a bit of a red herring though, and leading us away from other conversations that should be taking place. I will retire this argument for that sake.

[Edited on October 2, 2015 at 11:10 AM. Reason : fuck the mods ]

10/2/2015 10:58:48 AM

^

Kim dotcom was a threat to the suits bottom line. You're just illuminating who and what the NSA really protects. There are few Kim dotcoms and many trolls with an inferiority complex.

10/2/2015 11:04:09 AM

Edited


Fin.

10/2/2015 11:12:18 AM

Quote :

"Sheer numbers vs resources. How many NSA agents are available to knock down doors? Do we really want to live in more of a police state to stop the few killings that happen each year? I think it's a culture problem for sure, and there is something to be said about the wallowing vs hardening the fuck up to find something to work towards. "

Yeah I totally understand that, my thinking is that if word gets out that your door is going to get kicked in, all your computers seized, and you will be detained for questioning for a while people might think twice about their actions. I know there is a fine line with freedom of speech and thought crime or whatever but there needs to be consequences for something like this regardless if it is just some neckbeard in his parents basement doing it for the lulz.

[Edited on October 2, 2015 at 11:28 AM. Reason : ]]

10/2/2015 11:28:34 AM

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/oregon-college-shooting/oregon-shooting-heroic-veteran-chris-mintz-was-shot-7-times-n437291

10/2/2015 11:35:15 AM

10/2/2015 11:41:57 AM

Can we just assume that anyone still using myspace is a psychopath?

10/2/2015 11:56:00 AM

^ lol

10/2/2015 11:57:42 AM

lol y'all bitches in here thinking the NSA would monitor 4chan

jesus christ no wonder snowden fooled so many fucking people

Quote :

"details of suicides used to be widely reported. and they spawned increased suicides in the days and weeks following. suicides are rarely newsworthy now because media adopted the CDC recommendations on how to report them."

which is why suicide rates have continued to decline...oh wait


https://www.afsp.org/understanding-suicide/facts-and-figures

[Edited on October 2, 2015 at 12:16 PM. Reason : .]

10/2/2015 12:12:40 PM

there is almost no way that 4chan isn't already monitored, but it's impossible for anyone to know what items are serious and act on them in real time. collecting information hasn't been the issue for awhile, it wasn't an issue even before 9/11

it's scary that anyone is suggesting that more government monitoring, the erosion of even more civil rights, is something that we should be considering as a solution to this issue

[Edited on October 2, 2015 at 12:17 PM. Reason : .]

10/2/2015 12:15:50 PM

Quote :

"which is why suicide rates have continued to decline...oh wait"

suicide clusters, i.e. copycat suicides

A suicide cluster is a group of suicides or suicide attempts, or both, that occur closer together in time and space than would normally be expected in any given community. Clusters of completed suicides occur predominantly among adolescents and young adults, and these clusters account for approximately 1 to 5 percent of all suicides of that age group. Suicide clusters are thought to contain a process of contagion with the later suicides being influenced by the suicides occurring earlier in the cluster. Additionally, when the general public is exposed to suicide through the media, it may increase the risk of suicide for susceptible individuals

[Edited on October 2, 2015 at 12:22 PM. Reason : .]

10/2/2015 12:20:00 PM

Hate speech and discussion of plans to murder people is a civil right?

10/2/2015 12:28:26 PM

unless it constitutes a true threat, yes actually, and almost 100% of threats on the internet do not meet factors that courts use to decide if something is a true threat. the 4chan post for this is ambiguous, so many courts would not even consider it a true threat

but to monitor and act on even true threats means eroding the rights of others who never make true threats, so encouraging this is shortsighted and created the kind of BS security theater nonsense like what we see in response to terrorism.

[Edited on October 2, 2015 at 12:34 PM. Reason : .]

10/2/2015 12:33:40 PM

here's a study by the NIH that shows suicide clusters are driven by socioeconomic factors
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2653005/

here's a study that shows suicide clusters are driven by cultural isolation
http://ww1.cpa-apc.org/French_Site/publications/Archives/CJP/1998/Oct/wilkie.htm

here's one that says clustering is predetermined because people who are vulnerable to suicide may self-select clusters before any overt suicidal stimulus occurs
http://cdp.sagepub.com/content/8/3/89

we can do this shit all day. it's not a proven science.

10/2/2015 12:34:34 PM

So apparently the shooter asked if people were christian, and killed them if they said yes.

Can you imagine how the liberal media would go absolutely apeshit if "christian" was replaced with "muslim"?

10/2/2015 12:34:58 PM

media is the contagion for suicide clusters
http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/1990-98190-018
http://abs.sagepub.com/content/46/9/1269.short
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1943-278X.1989.tb00363.x/abstract?deniedAccessCustomisedMessage=&userIsAuthenticated=false
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1749-6632.2001.tb05807.x/abstract?deniedAccessCustomisedMessage=&userIsAuthenticated=false
etc...


the CDC after studying the problem recommended tempered media coverage, which is effective at stopping or limiting suicide clusters:
https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/Publications/abstract.aspx?ID=122038
http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.3109/00048679309075828
etc...


school shootings are the same phenomenon as suicide clusters
School Shooting as a Culturally Enforced Way of Expressing Suicidal Hostile Intentions
http://jaapl.org/content/36/4/544.short

Quote :

"I have watched in horror with most of America as the stories of the Chardon High School and Oikos University shootings unfolded. But my horror was twofold. The first misery came as I heard the names and numbers of victims and thought about the pain they and their families will endure for the rest of their lives. The second dose came as I held my breath, hoping and praying the media wouldn’t amplify the violence. But they did. They did exactly what was needed to influence the next perpetrator to lock and load. 1. They named the shooter. 2. They described his characteristics. 3. They detailed the crime. 4. They numbered the victims. 5. They ranked him against other “successful” attackers. School shootings are a contagion. And the media are consistent accomplices in most every one of them. There’s really no useful debate on the point. The consensus of social scientists since David Phillips’ groundbreaking work in 1974 is that highly publicized stories of deviant and dangerous behavior influences copycat incidents. Phillips’ and scores of subsequent studies showed, for example, that suicide rates spike in the week after an inappropriately publicized celebrity suicide. Contrast this trend with no increase in suicides in the week following a media strike that unintentionally suppresses such coverage. The same is true of school massacres."

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/crucial-conversations/201204/the-media-is-accomplice-in-school-shootings

America’s Foremost Criminal Profiler Warns Media Coverage Causes School Shootings
http://www.frontpagemag.com/2012/dgreenfield/americas-foremost-criminal-profiler-warns-media-coverage-causes-school-shootings/

http://www.riskinstitute.org/peri/images/file/Coleman_Copycateffect.pdf

10/2/2015 12:35:30 PM

here are guidelines for reporting on suicide, similar guidelines are needed for school shootings
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/suicide-prevention/PDF-recommendations-for-rporting-on-suicide_136457.pdf
http://www.sprc.org/sites/sprc.org/files/library/sreporting.pdf


__________________________________


none of this suggests "IGNORING IT" or that "IGNORING IT WILL MAKE IT GO AWAY", it provides suggestions for responsible reporting since studies have shown that the media can be a contagion and that responsible reporting is effective at stopping that contagion.

10/2/2015 12:35:58 PM

sweet repost bro

maybe next you can paste a wall of ill-formatted numbers in an attempt to impress us all with your google searching skills in depth knowledge

10/2/2015 12:38:31 PM

Quote :

"Can you imagine how the liberal media would go absolutely apeshit if "christian" was replaced with "muslim"?"

MSNBC's #1 front page story is about him asking about religion and shooting christians in the head

10/2/2015 12:40:01 PM

Yes, they stated the facts that occurred.

Since christians died, it's a gun control debate on every liberal news page. If it was 10 dead muslims it would be islamaphobia victim narrative x 10000.

10/2/2015 12:47:41 PM

Quote :

"maybe next you can paste a wall of ill-formatted numbers in an attempt to impress us all with your google searching skills in depth knowledge"

how is this:
your first link:
in no way does this suggest that media is not a contagion, and this study distinguishes between what they call point clusters and mass clusters "which cluster in time rather than space and are often associated with media reports such as the deaths of celebrities". a point cluster based on geographical area over a long period isn't really relevant to this discussion, it's relevant to other risk factors

your second link:
no one says that the media contagion is the only reason, it's a contagion for people at risk. this study even concluded that contagions are a risk factor and they discuss Gould's infectious model of suicides and the CDC recommendations for how the media should report suicides and how the community should react per the CDC recommendations.

your third link:
password protected, but the abstract is clear that they are discussing local point clusters

_______________________________________________________________________________

perhaps i should propose this another way:

there exists at least some evidence that these kinds of shootings are similar to suicide clusters, and that the media is a contagion for those at-risk, so why not try similar media guidelines to those used for suicide clusters that at least some evidence shows were effective? what is the argument against these media guidelines?

[Edited on October 2, 2015 at 1:09 PM. Reason : .]

10/2/2015 1:01:05 PM

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/10/armed-vet-destroys-gun-nuts-argument-on-mass-shooters-by-explaining-why-he-didnt-attack-oregon-killer/

The headline here it's dumb, but apparently Oregon law does allow concealed carry on campus, and this guy claims he was carrying that day.

10/2/2015 1:47:09 PM

Yea I was gonna say with a headline like that... no bias to see here.

That guy made the right call. Unfortunately there was only 1 of him and he was far away from the building it happened in.

10/2/2015 1:50:23 PM

What's even more hilarious is that this guy disproves all of the hysteria that the left tries to propagate about what would happen if people WERE carrying. They argue that it would be a blood bath, with people shooting at everyone! And yet, a sane, properly trained individual, made the right call. Shit, it's almost like people who know how to responsibly use guns AREN'T actually a problem.

10/2/2015 1:55:34 PM

Technically isn't that guy a "gun nut"?

If anything doesn't that video help the argument for responsible concealed carry? Not that I expect much thought from ThinkProgress.

10/2/2015 2:00:35 PM

not every concealed carry person is a gun nut

10/2/2015 2:03:49 PM

Quote :

"Since christians died, it's a gun control debate on every liberal news page. If it was 10 dead muslims it would be islamaphobia victim narrative x 10000."

you're equating Islamophobia and Christianophobia when they aren't equal at all

10/2/2015 2:04:03 PM

True, I suppose way more Christians are killed by Islam than vice versa.

I'm just making a point about how the media only cares about certain factors when it is convenient to construct a false narrative that helps further an agenda.

10/2/2015 2:11:07 PM

No, they care about making money. There's a demand, so they supply.

10/2/2015 2:12:32 PM

^^ what's the false narrative and how does the media stand to profit by talking about gun control?

10/2/2015 2:18:19 PM

Quote :

"^^ what's the false narrative and how does the media stand to profit by talking about gun control?"

The false narrative I was referencing was the common "oppressed victim minority" narrative, in this case the islamaphobia one.

10/2/2015 2:53:36 PM

is the christian thing just based on one twitter account? or did other witnesses say that too?

10/2/2015 3:00:29 PM

Quote :

"is the christian thing just based on one twitter account?"

no

Quote :

"In one classroom, he appeared to single out Christian students for killing, according to witness Anastasia Boylan. “He said, ‘Good, because you’re a Christian, you’re going to see God in just about one second,'” Boylan’s father, Stacy, told CNN, relaying his daughter’s account while she underwent surgery to treat a gunshot to her spine. “And then he shot and killed them.” Another account came from Autumn Vicari, who described to NBC News what her brother J.J. witnessed in the room where the shootings occurred. According to NBC: “Vicari said at one point the shooter told people to stand up before asking whether they were Christian or not. Vicari’s brother told her that anyone who responded ‘yes’ was shot in the head. If they said ‘other’ or didn’t answer, they were shot elsewhere in the body, usually the leg.”"

Quote :

"I suppose way more Christians are killed by Islam than vice versa. "

[citation needed]

[Edited on October 2, 2015 at 3:07 PM. Reason : ]

10/2/2015 3:04:09 PM

I hate the current trend of article headlines saying "_____ DESTROYS _____'s argument"

10/2/2015 3:37:42 PM

^ Yup. It usually ends up being more like "herpaderp brings up another strawman and herps while people around him derp"

10/2/2015 3:41:30 PM

Some people never learn

Quote :

"'Gun control is NOT the answer to preventing school shootings': Oregon sheriff at the center of the Roseburg college killings publicly warned he would not enforce tighter Obama gun laws"

Sigh...

10/2/2015 9:53:19 PM

if the teachers/professors were armed they could have solved this problem with many fewer christian lives lost.

10/2/2015 10:50:42 PM

ban christianity

10/2/2015 11:13:11 PM

^omg victim blamer

10/2/2015 11:27:28 PM

Boot camp dropout

10/3/2015 12:18:57 AM

We don't need gun control, we need mandatory psychiatric evaluations

10/3/2015 9:26:57 AM

What are these obama gun laws?

10/3/2015 9:29:10 AM

Quote :

"Some people never learn"

And what gun laws other than an outright ban and confiscation would prevent this? No previously proposed legislation would have done anything, the shooter passed background checks and went through all the legal procedures. Passing legislation for the sake of passing something regardless of if it would actually address the issue or not is idiocracy.

[Edited on October 3, 2015 at 2:25 PM. Reason : .]

10/3/2015 2:22:34 PM

But we have a real problem with gun violence, so why is it such a big deal if a shooting like this is the catalyst for change for real problems?

10/3/2015 2:25:02 PM