gotta make that paper

8/17/2016 9:26:11 AM

maybe they're trying to drive the nearby apartments out of business so they can acquire the land. money grab + land grab = ultra grabbiness

8/17/2016 9:31:28 AM

I don't buy ^. The 22% of freshmen who currently live off-campus do not keep those apartments afloat.

Given how prevalent this requirement is at other schools, I doubt there's any circumstance special to NC State. From their perspective I can't see much argument against a policy that results in more money and better performance.

I want to be sympathetic to the personal choice argument, but then the choice is exercised in choosing the university. NC State has this policy. If that policy is a dealbreaker for you, go elsewhere.

8/17/2016 9:43:17 AM

^A+ post and spot on

8/17/2016 10:05:17 AM

8/17/2016 10:24:58 AM

My college ex could not get along with her room mates, she moved to the campus apartments and could not get along with those room mates either...her parents ended up buying a townhouse off campus and she stayed there the rest of college. There were room mates there as well, but by then she could run it with an iron fist and choose who lived there and on what terms.

I don't think the dorms are for everyone. Also back in the day if you got caught with any drugs you got kicked out of the dorms. What are they gonna do now?? Just expel?? That is going to be messy with weed being legalized in state after state.

8/17/2016 10:33:56 AM

Quote :

"Also back in the day if you got caught with any drugs you got kicked out of the dorms. What are they gonna do now?? Just expel?? That is going to be messy with weed being legalized in state after state."

1) don't be a moron and get caught with drugs
2) weed isn't legal in NC

it won't be any more messy than it is now.

8/17/2016 10:38:45 AM

Quote :

"Had the same rule when I started back in 1995. "

I remember this being a "requirement" back in 2002 too, but i didn't stay on campus, and I don't remember having to jump through any hoops-- i think it was just telling someone "i'm not staying on campus" and signing something, and that was it.

8/17/2016 10:39:18 AM

I loved being in the dorms and we stayed in those sardine can sized rooms in Bowen for 3 years, but we had a really good group of guys in our suite. I think it probably depends on who you are with.

8/17/2016 10:39:28 AM

I had a great time in Owen, Tucker, and then Wood. Wouldn't have traded my time in the "underground" for anything.

8/17/2016 11:14:11 AM

I assume University Towers would have (or request) some sort of exemption. I would guess 80%+ of their population are freshman with the rest soph/juniors. They may get cut out though, and if so, would have to renovate and turn that place into some sort of upper-class apartments. It makes sense to have UT included as an option to live "on campus" but I can see where the line would be hard to draw and Stanhope or any of the new spots on Hillsborough street would scream bloody murder.

Also, the University could do a better job of making their on campus housing options much less shitty. To my knowledge, Bragaw still exists and is a primary example of the shit ass options for student dorms. They have done a ton in the way of amenities (gym, student center, open areas/landscaping) but have done little to upgrade the dorms, unless I missed a major renovation. Could also use some serious renovations to the cafeterias. The "in house" cafeteria was the single best part of living at UT.



[Edited on August 17, 2016 at 11:43 AM. Reason : .]

8/17/2016 11:39:00 AM

LMFAO

Quote :

"As a welcome gift to the UNCW Class of 2020, we are now offering special discounts on all underage drinking, fake ID, drug possession and solicitation of prostitution charges for all incoming freshman. Contact our office anytime at 910-762-1672 or online at http://www.shotwelllawgroup.com. Welcome to college young friends!!"

8/17/2016 11:40:38 AM

Quote :

". They have done a ton in the way of amenities (gym, student center, open areas/landscaping) but have done little to upgrade the dorms, unless I missed a major renovation. Could also use some serious renovations to the cafeterias"

What exactly do you want them to do to upgrade the dorms? Leather couches? 60" Tv's for every student? I mean all the dorms are air conditioned and not falling apart.

And also the food at State was pretty dang good (i rarely ate at fountain, Clark ftw). It's not gourmet quality, but as far as large scale institutional cooking goes, it's more than ok. If you couldn't find something you liked at every meal, you were probably the problem.

8/17/2016 12:23:37 PM

they actually have been in the process of upgrading dorms, its just things like new windows and other maintenance-type things and not flashy stuff

8/17/2016 1:32:49 PM

Quote :

"ant to be sympathetic to the personal choice argument, but then the choice is exercised in choosing the university. NC State has this policy. If that policy is a dealbreaker for you, go elsewhere."

I'd be fine with this if it wasn't a public university

8/17/2016 3:33:34 PM

public universities shouldn't be allowed to make any rules really, any rule cuts down on choice

requiring students to go to class and do work for grades shouldn't be allowed because its a public university

8/17/2016 3:36:14 PM

Quote :

"I don't buy ^. The 22% of freshmen who currently live off-campus do not keep those apartments afloat. Given how prevalent this requirement is at other schools, I doubt there's any circumstance special to NC State. From their perspective I can't see much argument against a policy that results in more money and better performance. I want to be sympathetic to the personal choice argument, but then the choice is exercised in choosing the university. NC State has this policy. If that policy is a dealbreaker for you, go elsewhere."

This. As I said earlier, it's not a huge deal. Not sure why everyone is losing their shit.

8/17/2016 3:40:30 PM

Quote :

"I'd be fine with this if it wasn't a public university"

What does that have to do with anything? Public status does not make a university, nor anything else, a free for all. They can have rules specific to themselves. This particular school seems to have some intelligent reasoning behind it.

8/17/2016 5:03:23 PM

they can't make whatever rules they want. there are limits on their policies.

i think a public university should let folks decide for themselves what living arrangement is best for them.

8/17/2016 5:13:39 PM

Wasn't this the policy in the early 2000s

8/17/2016 5:19:05 PM

^ Don't think so. My nephew was applying to State a few years ago and it was his understanding that they couldn't even guarantee him a dorm room for his freshman year.

Also from the memo:

Quote :

"Currently, about 78% of our incoming freshman students live on-campus...With this move, we would expect to have well over 90% of freshmen on-campus"

8/17/2016 5:21:25 PM

No one said they could just make whatever rules they want. They have to go through different governing bodies to get approved. No one is just sitting somewhere making rules willy-nilly because they feel like it.

[Edited on August 17, 2016 at 5:40 PM. Reason : sss]

8/17/2016 5:40:07 PM

Sounds like UT would likely be exempt, as I understand from some Tarheel co-workers, Granville Towers was exempt from their policy which has been in place for years.

By the way, I am not asking for 60 inch screens (money green) leather sofas, but the administration could put some cash into them and make them more appealing, or build new ones from time to time. Other than housing on centennial, what was the last time a new dorm was built (other than specialized housing or whatever EE King village is these days for married folks/families). At the very least, paint, carpet, bathrooms, better/more comfortable communal areas, vending/snack options, etc. If they were a bit nicer, they would see that percentage creep up without having to force people on campus per policy. Just a quick Google search and there are dorms from Yale to the University of North Florida - Jacksonville offering luxury study rooms, tennis, putting greens, lazy rivers, sweet shops, skylights, views, single rooms, high end communal kitchen areas, movie theaters and roof top gardens. I am not saying we need to go that far, but until a few years ago, NCSU couldn't even rep that all dorm rooms had central air.

8/17/2016 5:47:42 PM

Quote :

"they can't make whatever rules they want. there are limits on their policies. i think a public university should let folks decide for themselves what living arrangement is best for them."

why do you think your opinion of what rules and limits are okay has any weight?

8/17/2016 6:13:39 PM

i could ask the same question of you

8/17/2016 6:21:14 PM

lol

8/17/2016 7:18:09 PM

stats don't lie: full-time students who live on college campuses graduate at a much higher rate than those who don't. if you don't like it, nobody is forcing you to attend NCSU.

8/17/2016 7:51:14 PM

if you don't like it, you can get out!

8/17/2016 8:04:43 PM

essentially, yes. that's how things like policies work. LOL

8/17/2016 8:08:26 PM

so if a pastry shop, a private business, has a policy of not baking cakes for gay weddings, a gay couple can just go get their cake somewhere else, right?

8/17/2016 8:24:48 PM

8/17/2016 8:30:07 PM

answer the question

[Edited on August 17, 2016 at 8:33 PM. Reason : what principles do you apply when analyzing these situations, sir?]

8/17/2016 8:31:46 PM

those aren't comparable scenarios. saying that as a university, your goal is to provide the most possible support for incoming freshman and the best way of doing that is making all freshman live on campus isn't anything like discriminating against someone for being gay. keep trying.

8/17/2016 8:33:49 PM

dude, that's how policies work. if you don't like it, go elsewhere.

8/17/2016 8:36:37 PM

so sue NCSU if it bothers you so much.

8/17/2016 8:42:26 PM

8/17/2016 8:46:52 PM

proggies all about choice and tolerance until they want to impose their will on you

8/17/2016 9:38:32 PM

Quote :

"I could ask the same question of you"

Except that I never stated that this rule was beyond some imaginary limit of rules they can make that exists only on my head


Also, are you under the impression that kids who want to.live off campus is a federally protected class and this discriminates against them?

[Edited on August 17, 2016 at 10:16 PM. Reason : Simple minded folk from.small towns are the worst ]

8/17/2016 10:06:52 PM

^ true story

8/17/2016 10:15:55 PM

ah, i see what you're saying now, but i'm arguing something different. there are limits on their policies. they can't institute a policy of not admitting a certain race, for example. the freshmen-must-live-on-campus rule is obviously not beyond their current limits, but my opinion is that, as a university that receives public funding, they should have to let freshmen live wherever they feel is best for themselves.

of course, a better solution would be to not have state-funded universities.

[Edited on August 17, 2016 at 10:21 PM. Reason : marginalize away]

8/17/2016 10:20:19 PM

Quote :

" they can't institute a policy of not admitting a certain race"

Right, because race is a federally protected class, but then you probably disagree with protected classes, which is why you keep comparing a university's boarding policies to them.

[Edited on August 17, 2016 at 10:41 PM. Reason : UJustWait84 made the exact same point]

8/17/2016 10:40:50 PM

i'm not arguing what is and isn't a protected class or whether or not protected classes should exist

i simply hold the opinion that a public university should not put unnecessary requirements on where their freshmen live. some folks agree with me. some folks agree with you.

it's cool, man. you like telling freshmen what living arrangements are best for them. i think people should decide for themselves. it's no big deal, you big, lovable authoritarian

8/17/2016 10:54:10 PM

Quote :

"you like telling freshmen what living arrangements are best for them"

I'm not telling anyone anything.

Quote :

"i'm not arguing what is and isn't a protected class"

There's no need for argument there, as that's more of a definition.

Quote :

"or whether or not protected classes should exist"

I didn't say you're making that argument ITT. I said that's why you keep making that silly comparison.


But if I can go out on a limb, I think you're probably fundamentally against any federal/state government telling citizens what to do, and by extension, are against this policy.

[Edited on August 17, 2016 at 11:09 PM. Reason : Which means this really isn't about the boarding policy for you ]

8/17/2016 11:03:30 PM

i made that statement to simply point out that there are some legal limits on what policies a university can institute. that was to counter the "their university, their policies" argument. i propose that public universities should also be limited such that they can't dictate living arrangements to students.

Quote :

"I think you're fundamentally against any federal/state government telling citizens what to do, and by extension, are against this policy."

That's right. I hold tolerance and liberty as core values. They are principles I use to make decisions about what is right and wrong. Principles are not something that progressives are big on.

[Edited on August 17, 2016 at 11:10 PM. Reason : sdf]

[Edited on August 17, 2016 at 11:11 PM. Reason : asdf]

8/17/2016 11:09:33 PM

Quote :

" to simply point out that there are some legal limits on what policies a university can institute."

Federally protected classes

Quote :

" i propose that public universities should also be limited such that they can't dictate living arrangements to students."

Not a federally protected class

So it sounds like you want to expand the federally protected classes to include freshmen who want to live off campus!

[Edited on August 17, 2016 at 11:12 PM. Reason : MORE BIG GUBMINT]

8/17/2016 11:12:02 PM

i understand that completely

an additional federally protected class is not the only way to stop this policy

[Edited on August 17, 2016 at 11:14 PM. Reason : adsf]

8/17/2016 11:12:59 PM

Quote :

"That's right. I hold tolerance and liberty as core values. They are principles I use to make decisions about what is right and wrong. Principles are not something that progressives are big on."

So to take that to the larger place, do you believe federal and state governments should even exist? If so in what form?

[Edited on August 17, 2016 at 11:15 PM. Reason : ^ I know. I was being facetious ]

[Edited on August 17, 2016 at 11:18 PM. Reason : V lol i can dig it. let me know when you figure it out!]

8/17/2016 11:14:35 PM

i'm still answering that question for myself.

but, yes, i think we do need government at the state level. i think we could get by without a federal government, but i also think that if we had a federal govt that would abide by an originalist interpretation of the Constitution, we'd be in a pretty good spot. some amendments were obviously necessary.

i've read some an-cap stuff and i don't go that far.

i could recommend some books that you might enjoy. it's good to have your views challenged.

[Edited on August 17, 2016 at 11:24 PM. Reason : adsf]

8/17/2016 11:18:07 PM

if they have living arrangements they want to use already established before they are accepted they should be able to use them

other than that I don't really care

8/17/2016 11:23:48 PM

what kind of hateful person doesn't want to shower with the opposite sex?
I'll tell you what kind:
THE UNPOPULAR KIND

8/18/2016 12:52:08 AM