Quote :

" Jeanine Cummings looks like she might be the next victim."

having your book panned by critics isn’t being cancelled

Oprah has a long history of giving bad books a giant platform. this is just the latest.

[Edited on February 3, 2020 at 4:41 PM. Reason : .]

2/3/2020 4:40:28 PM

Quote :

"To my mind, the slightly more novel types of "cancellation" that might warrant a new name like "cancel culture" are"

The concept is not new, it is just a new name for an old behavior that humans have been engaging in since the formation of language. In the 70s some called it "Trashing", 19th century called it "Yellow Journalism" because at that time this stuff spread by being printed. However, for centuries many just called it "Gossip". After-all, Gossip is considered wrong not because it shares true and justifiable criticism.

[Edited on February 3, 2020 at 4:58 PM. Reason : .,.]

2/3/2020 4:57:37 PM

2/3/2020 5:00:28 PM

^^^Your contrarian attitude towards everything I post is getting tiresome. Because it is actually exactly the opposite of what you just said. Critics are fine with it. Its the woke folk that are not.

https://nypost.com/2020/02/02/ridiculous-attacks-on-american-dirt-are-fresh-reason-to-nix-cancel-culture/

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/american-dirt-publisher-cancels-bookstore-events-jeanine-cummins-n1124176

https://www.vox.com/culture/2020/1/22/21075629/american-dirt-controversy-explained-jeanine-cummins-oprah-flatiron

2/3/2020 5:18:46 PM

just read the Wikipedia page for it, my dude

[Edited on February 3, 2020 at 5:49 PM. Reason : and stay away from op-eds from the NY Post]

2/3/2020 5:47:37 PM

Interesting take about this:

Quote :

" Everyone’s talking about Jeanine Cummins’s new novel,American Dirt, about a mother and her son who flee Mexico. Predictably, Cummins has been accused of “cultural appropriation,” and appropriation of a rather sloppy sort, it seems, including terrible Spanish dialogue. Writing in The New York Times, David Bowles critiques the “white saviorism” of the novel and takes the publishing industry to task for always doing this sort of thing—hyping a single book as the publishing event of year. Fair enough. The problem with Bowles’s critique is that while he is concerned to some degree with the quality of the work, ultimately his problem with the book is political—its “white saviorism,” its appropriation. What Bowles fails to see is that the politicalization of literature is the very thing that gives us novels like Cummins’s American Dirt and a publishing industry that can capitalize so easily on supposedly “revolutionary” or “boldly transgressive” works, which are, of course, anything but. He wants a more “ethical” publishing industry? Good. Let’s start with focusing in criticism on the quality of writing, which means that we stop giving unwarranted attention to politics and thus remove the incentive for publishers to do exactly what Bowles laments in his piece—cash in on trendy ideas."

2/3/2020 6:05:28 PM

Ken Bone was cancelled

2/3/2020 6:33:52 PM

James Frey Was canceled.

2/3/2020 6:41:06 PM

i was mostly being serious

2/3/2020 6:42:27 PM

If I wrote a book about the struggle of being a coal miner in WV (I’m not a coal miner or from WV, don’t struggle much either) and got a million dollar book deal I’d assume some coal miners who are trying to publish books would be a tab upset.

Such is life. I take that chance writing a book about coal miners. They’re an angry bunch.

2/3/2020 6:54:01 PM

Quote :

"https://www.vox.com/culture/2020/1/22/21075629/american-dirt-controversy-explained-jeanine-cummins-oprah-flatiron"

just finished this. it’s a very good explainer that isn’t about cancel culture (or wokeness) at all and references some of the criticism I was referencing

2/3/2020 8:14:37 PM

https://www.fastcompany.com/90458174/hate-outrage-and-cancel-culture-are-snowballing-thanks-to-this

2/4/2020 10:55:32 AM

Except Chik Fil A is a bad example of being cancelled. ^ If anything, they made more money off of the controversy.

2/4/2020 1:08:42 PM

Everything listed is a bad example, bc there really aren't many GOOD examples. And boycotting someone bc of their political activities is an American tradition and one of the foundations of free speech.

Hart, Rowling, Ross and chik fil a all have ultimate fuck you money the backlash if the closest any of them has ever (at least since they got money) or likely will ever come to being held accountable for their words.

2/4/2020 1:16:05 PM

Quote :

" Everything listed is a bad example, bc there really aren't many GOOD examples"

ding ding ding

2/4/2020 1:27:41 PM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/voraciously/wp/2019/11/18/chick-fil-a-drops-donations-that-angered-lgbt-groups-and-conservatives-cry-betrayal/

2/4/2020 1:28:22 PM

https://www.afa.net/media/449831/letter-from-chick-fil-a.pdf

don't worry, chick-fil-a still hates the gays

2/4/2020 1:33:55 PM

Cancelling is a way to attack or diminish someone you disagree with but are too lazy or too much of a coward to confront their views directly... but it doesn't work. It emboldens the opposition because once again you are attacking the person and not the position. "Playing the man and not playing the ball" in football/soccer.

I recommend to young people when their friends are being offensive "don't cancel them, teach them" or at least direct them towards resources that will help them better inform their views. If you can't teach them or find a way to convince them or direct them towards the proper facts and/or resources for doing so, then maybe you shouldn't be so offended by what they are saying.

2/4/2020 5:13:50 PM

I think it is awful that someone could lose a job or their career over an opinion.

2/4/2020 5:38:27 PM

Nobody has ever lost a job for "having" an opinion. I bet I could list plenty of glaringly obvious examples where you would agree "acting" to share that opinion would be a fireable offense.

2/4/2020 5:46:16 PM

So if I came to work for your company and had all of the qualifications, would you hire me?

2/4/2020 11:30:29 PM

wait why were my examples bad?

2/5/2020 12:23:17 AM

^^in this scenario do I know that you annoy the hell out of me?

2/5/2020 6:55:13 AM

I’m a known satanist and I want to work for a catholic charity.

2/5/2020 8:21:51 AM

^Yes, but Satanists don't really worship Satan, so there's that. You can pretend your body is your temple, and be a hedonist, as long as you're really good at what you do. Would you be applying to the clerical staff, IT or what? I mean it's not like they'd let you be a priest or anything.

2/5/2020 8:41:37 AM

No I mean literally worshipping Satan.

2/5/2020 8:54:53 AM

I can't tell if "Satanists don't worship Satan" is meant to be a joke or not in that context but either way lol. And you don't even have to say Satanists, shoudl a protestant church have to hire a catholic?

Should a POC have to hire, or be forced to work with, an open racist?

Should a woman have to hire, or be forced to work with, an open misogynist?

If I'm a boss and my employee says to me "i think your wife should leave your loser ass and come be with me" and I fire them, am I Canceling them??

2/5/2020 9:02:21 AM

^Most Satanists I've known don't even believe in Satan.

Seriously.

2/5/2020 10:38:40 AM

Yea sorry my post wasn't clear. I get that Satanism is more of a statement then a religion, the joke is the idea that knowing that would make a Christian church any more likely to be hire that person.

2/5/2020 10:41:07 AM

I don't know why you're caught up on what a single employer has to do with cancel culture. "Cancel culture" is a mob behavior, unrelated people hounding those in your life with usually false or at least questionable information in order to shun you.

So, no. If you're honestly a bad person and your boss fires you, that isn't "cancel culture", that is merely "at will employment." But, if your boss likes you, wants to keep employing you, finds it impossible to believe you're the racist people are insisting you are, but is nevertheless frightened by a mob of people hounding him, his other employees, and his family demanding he fire you, then that is cancel culture.

2/5/2020 10:52:21 AM

Bc it's a message board and somebody brought up that question

2/5/2020 11:03:27 AM

^^ yeah that’s existed forever. WASPs in this country invented this behavior and now it’s come for them and its suddenly an issue.

You roll a big rock down a hill you better get outta the way.

[Edited on February 5, 2020 at 11:29 AM. Reason : Zing]

2/5/2020 11:28:30 AM

Suddenly an issue? Witch Hunts and Gossip are problems endemic to the human condition and always have been. Just because we gave it a new name doesn't mean any of us think it is only now an issue.

2/5/2020 3:50:07 PM

Quote :

"^^in this scenario do I know that you annoy the hell out of me?"

Canceling has nothing to do with ability to do that job but its taking away the job as punishment for having certain opinions.

Assume I'm otherwise professional and able to do the job and keep quiet but you know that when I go home, I'm the person logging into TWW as horosho and you read my posts and hate them.

2/5/2020 5:23:41 PM

If i knew that before hand again I would probably not bc i would worry you were just as annoying in person. But if we already worked together and you acted normal, I might risk my own job to ask why you are the way you are, but none of your opinions are fireable, in my OPINION. I live in Florida, I work with tons of people that have far more distasteful opinions than yours.

It's your tww personality I dislike far more than your actual opinions.

I guess it's now my turn to ask how or why this turned into an inquest into whether I'd work with you.

2/5/2020 5:43:36 PM

^^^ yes agreed. Why all the press and pearl clutching by conservatives then?

2/5/2020 8:09:05 PM

Are Republicans "cancel culturing" Romney?

2/5/2020 9:54:00 PM

I think that was discussed on page 1. Verdict: who knows! It depends vastly based on your personal definition of the phrase! Crazy, I know

2/5/2020 9:56:22 PM

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/barnes-noble-black-history-month_n_5e3b5eb7c5b6bb0ffc0abfd7

2/6/2020 12:21:57 PM

what is your issue with that?

2/6/2020 12:29:37 PM

I don't have one, just another example.

I get why Barnes & Noble thought this was a good idea, and I get why folks thought it wasn't.

2/6/2020 12:35:22 PM

lets cut to the chase here; what exactly is it you want to say RJ? what do you want to scream at your job?

just push back from your desk and say ______?

2/6/2020 12:44:08 PM

how exactly is it an example of cancel culture?

2/6/2020 12:48:23 PM

Quote :

"The dictionary definition of "cancel," per Merriam Webster, is to "destroy the force, effectiveness or validity of." When people say they're canceling a famous person, that's essentially what they're trying to do. They want to take away their power or their cultural capital. They want to diminish their significance, whether it's a personal boycott or a public shaming."

For reference.

It is not losing your career because you hold/or express an opinion. It is much larger than that.

[Edited on February 6, 2020 at 4:00 PM. Reason : but obvi doesn't fit rjrumple's "example"]

2/6/2020 3:59:42 PM

They cancelled the program, after enough people expressed concern on social media.

Is that not what we're talking about here?

2/6/2020 4:11:24 PM

So you think putting forth a bad idea, being told it's a bad idea, and then stopping that bad idea, is an example of cancel culture?

2/6/2020 4:18:32 PM

an idea being good or bad is obviously subjective

2/6/2020 5:35:30 PM

Only if you’re a moral relativist.

2/6/2020 6:46:08 PM

so all ideas are definitively either good or bad?

2/6/2020 6:59:17 PM

Well a moral relativist would say no. There is no absolute truth.

2/6/2020 7:08:26 PM