Next summer is when we'll really have space. Couple that with another top 5 pick and we may actually start to look like a real basketball team.

6/19/2012 4:04:49 PM

That's the sick thing about it.

In two years we could have MKG/Beal paired with Zeller/shabazz/noel. Along with two top 2nd round picks and With quality players like biyombo, brown flanking them.

On top of that tyrus or augustin could return to their previous form and maybe one of dj white, kemba, Henderson, or mullens develops into a decent role player (not holding my breath but you never know).

Wed have cap room to add some veterans and bam we're a playoff team with upside.


But with Jordan at the helm we all know we are going to end up with a 25 win nucleus of scrubs like Jeff green, marquis Teague, Harrison Barnes, morris almond, and maybe one good player like ilyasova or batum. It's just going to happen and we all know it.

6/19/2012 4:19:43 PM

How good would the Thunder be without Durant?

people want to act like Cho is some genius for building up OKC, when one of the top-3 players in the NBA fell into his lap thanks to Portland drafting Oden

I'm sure a starting lineup of Westbrook, Harden, Sefolosha, Ibaka, Perkins would be a playoff team, but I'm starting to wonder how deserved Cho is of his "basketball genius" title

6/19/2012 4:23:39 PM

New uniforms:

6/19/2012 7:36:40 PM

looks like

6/19/2012 7:46:56 PM

^^Hell yeah that's our big three! Kemba, Gerald, and Biyombo!

Could be our own dynasty starting to build. Titles ensuing soon.

6/19/2012 7:50:35 PM

New unis are a big improvement. I'd consider purchasing a Barnes' one.

6/19/2012 7:52:29 PM

those uniforms fucking blow. Look like a shitty ripoff of the mavs jerseys. CATS!!?? God damn it fuck this team, please for the love of god bring the hornets name back soon

6/19/2012 7:53:13 PM

"CATS" reminds me immediately of



Then again, I am a fan of the Wiz...soooo

6/19/2012 8:47:15 PM

when are the Wizards gonna get the Bullets name back? Arenas and Crittenton tried to get the ball rolling

6/19/2012 8:53:57 PM

They got rid of the pinstripes?

I'm in.

6/19/2012 8:55:33 PM

will they still have a version with the checkered flags on it?

6/19/2012 10:04:42 PM

Quote :

"Look like a shitty ripoff of the mavs jerseys"

[Edited on June 19, 2012 at 10:17 PM. Reason : wtf I DIDNT POST THIS]

6/19/2012 10:14:34 PM

Quote :

"Look like a shitty ripoff of the mavs jerseys"

look for jordan to trade biyombo, walker and the #2 pick to the mavs for dirk (who will retire after 2 weeks)

6/19/2012 10:15:57 PM

Any chance the Bobcats trade up to take Barnes? We still have one or two assets and New Orleans could always pull a surprise and deny Jordan his preferred player rather than take Davis.

6/19/2012 10:16:55 PM

How tall is Bismack really? For his sake I hope he's slouching

6/20/2012 9:33:41 AM

Maybe Henderson just had a growth spurt. Or maybe he's wearing heels.

Other thoughts -- Harden has been nonexistant for 3 of the 4 finals games now, but I'd still take him in a heartbeat over MKG, Beal, etc.

6/20/2012 9:58:01 AM

i hope their bowling team had a better season

6/20/2012 11:55:26 AM

CJ Williams working out for the Bobcats along with Barnes

http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2012/story/_/id/8080864/2012-nba-draft-harrison-barnes-latest-work-charlotte-bobcats

6/21/2012 1:52:59 PM

^http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/results/players?id=16083&_slug_=cj-williams

and apparently he played for Boise State.

6/21/2012 8:11:24 PM

^

Quote :

"2002"

6/21/2012 8:12:17 PM

yeeeeeeahh I just noticed that. wrong guy, I guess.

6/21/2012 10:39:16 PM

These Finals are what watching a Bobcats' version of Harden would be like.

6/21/2012 11:40:16 PM

If we could get Harden it'd be the 2nd best move in franchise history with the only move that's even close is landing Gerald Wallace for free in the re-distribution draft.

Since OKC didn't win the title this year though I'm not sure what they'll do with Harden. On one hand it seems stupid to break up a juggernaut before you even need to (Harden & Ibaka are both signed for 1 more year + will be restricted FA's after).

On the other hand GM's and coaches are funny people and they may do something stupid like say "Oh Harden couldn't guard Lebron, maybe we should move him for someone who is far worse than him".

6/21/2012 11:50:08 PM

I'm just a little skeptical of how well Harden could do offensively when he isn't either playing against the opposing team's 2nd unit, or having the benefit of Durant draw the other team's best defender whenever they're sharing the court

Its little things like that that don't show up in the box score that you have to consider

6/21/2012 11:53:06 PM

if I'm OKC, I keep Harden and take the shot at a title. A title is worth more than whatever assets you'd get in a trade for Harden.

same logic I would use if I were Ray Shero right now re: Jordan Staal. However I hope that he overthinks that particular situation.


[Edited on June 21, 2012 at 11:54 PM. Reason : okay after a user edits a post 3 times, there should be a drunk lockout feature on TWW]

6/21/2012 11:53:06 PM

^^ you really don't have to consider for those things. People who are light years smarter than you have already tested for their effects and the results are in. They aren't very important.

6/22/2012 12:09:15 AM

lol

6/22/2012 12:10:07 AM

maybe we should go after Durant then...he's not as good as Harden so maybe we have a better shot at landing him

6/22/2012 12:13:41 AM

OKC is not going to move Durant under any circumstance, put the pipe down.

He's worth a small fortune in revenue for a small market team like that.


The Westbrook contract is what's going to cripple that franchise. They could've locked up Durant/Harden/Ibaka for the next ten years and picked up one of the 25-30 PG's in the league who can effectively replace Westbrook. 4-20 FG tonight, gahhhhh.

6/22/2012 12:19:59 AM

even if getting Harden is more realistic based on the fact that he only has one year left on his contract and OKC has locked up Durant for multiple years

you do agree that Harden is better than Durant, right?

6/22/2012 12:24:09 AM

dude, i'd love to get Durant. You think they would trade him to us for Biyombo/Walker, face?

6/22/2012 12:30:27 AM

It depends I guess.

I'd rather have Durant because I think with his size his upside is still tremendous. Whereas with Harden I'm not sure it's physically possible for a guy his size to play better than he did this year. I can't imagine him improving a lot more, in fact I'm completely amazed he managed to maintain his incredible numbers over the course of the entire season.

If you're asking who had the better regular season I can see the argument either way. Harden's per minute numbers are better, but Durant has gone from being a terrible defender to being a pretty good one. On top of that Durant already has his contract whereas Harden is playing for his. So I think it's a legitimate argument to say Harden is playing more focused while Durant clearly coasts at times during the regular season.

If you look at their overall numbers in the postseason, Durant was slightly better than Harden.

If you look at their overall numbers in the postseason SANS the NBA Finals they were basically dead even in production.

However, if you look strictly at their NBA Finals production Durant's production was quite a bit lower than his regular season and postseason numbers, but Harden's completely fell off a cliff.

6/22/2012 12:40:27 AM

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, but it sounds like you're saying Harden has better per-minute numbers than Durant (against lower quality opposition obviously), but otherwise Durant is better. Is that fair?

6/22/2012 12:46:15 AM

I think it's very close and I can see the argument either way... but coming off that Finals performance I'd be very hard pressed to say Harden is better than Durant.

If I had to build a team based on potential I'd definitely take Durant.


Maybe another way to look at is against inferior competition Harden is more dominant. Because he can get to the basket anytime he wants and he's a better 3pt shooter than Durant. So during the regular season Harden is the superior scorer because he takes much better shots than Durant.

But against elite competition Durant appears to still be able to get many of his shots and his dropoff isn't THAT severe. Whereas for Harden his production really dropped when he wasn't able to get to the basket at will anymore. It was also a bit off when the Lakers 7 footers bothered him around the basket.

So at this point I'd say Durant is slightly better than Harden. But maybe this was just a case of nerves for Harden and he'll be more ready next time around. Hard to say. You're certainly not way off base arguing for either one of those guys, they're both amongst the elite players in the league.

[Edited on June 22, 2012 at 12:58 AM. Reason : a]

6/22/2012 12:56:50 AM

So in other words... like I said a few posts ago... Harden generally plays against inferior competition and excels because of that, while Durant plays just as well against the other team's best efforts

I thought people light years smarter than me had already proven the opposite? Make up your mind, face

What do the algorithms project Harden to do going against #1 defenders for 82 games instead of #2 and #3 defenders for 66 games? I'm interested to know how the numbers play out

6/22/2012 1:00:36 AM

No. I'm saying "regular season opponents" are inferior competition.

You don't play Miami 5 times in a row during the regular season.


If we're playing a balanced regular season 82 game schedule over the course of the season Harden will probably have the best numbers because he absolutely dominates average and above average teams (see: all season + the first 3 rounds of NBA playoffs).

When he met Lebron/Wade though he struggled as everyone in the entire league does. Paul Pierce is still a pretty good player right? Just because he sucked terribly against the Heat doesn't mean Paul Pierce sucks. Everyone sucks against the Heat when they lock down like that.

Durant on the other hand doesn't rely on layups, crossovers, gliding through defenders, etc. He just rises up and shoots over the top. He can still get that against the Heat. Now his numbers still fell somewhat dramatically against the Heat, but you can't take away ALL of Durant's weapons. Plus Durant isn't still trying to wipe Herbjuice off of him when he wakes up in the morning.

[Edited on June 22, 2012 at 1:16 AM. Reason : a]

6/22/2012 1:15:16 AM

And I'm saying inferior competition is never facing the other team's best defenders, like Harden gets away with as the 3rd best offensive player on OKC. Regular season, playoffs, Finals, etc. Lockdown defenders are either guarding Durant and trying to stay in front of Westbrook, or on the bench resting while Durant rests. Harden benefits by playing a ton of his minutes against less than the best defense of the opposing teams.

One year at summer basketball camp, I was just barely not quite good enough to play on the first team. I was the main guy on the second team, and put up 10-14 points a game against inferior competition, whereas if I was the #5 guy on the first team, I wouldn't get as many touches, and also wouldn't be able to score as efficiently.

If you looked at my per-minute stats, you'd say I was a superstar. If you looked beyond simple numbers, you'd know how wrong you really were.

6/22/2012 1:25:01 AM

There are a lot of flaws with that argument obviously, but just so we're clear...

There is extensive research showing that players who change teams do not demonstrate significantly different numbers from year to year. You don't just start missing a ton of shots, not getting rebounds, or not getting steals because you're playing on a new team.

This should be fairly obvious if you've watched basketball with your "eye" for 20 years.

Harden will still be a superstar, regardless of what team he goes to.

There are some examples of guys playing for good teams like SAS/Lakers who require their players to take good shots going to bad teams who don't give a crap and having their FG% fall off a bit more than you'd expect. Trevor Ariza for example. But these are the exception, not the rule.

6/22/2012 1:34:47 AM

Its really simple face. Lets look at the Lakers Thunder series for example. Artest is obviously the Lakers best perimeter defender. When Durant and Harden were both in the game, Artest was guarding Durant (or trying to). Harden faced lesser defenders. Harden was able to use his skills and produce without a lockdown defender on him.

If Harden were traded to a team that didn't have a Durant/Lebron etc on it, and you depended on Harden being a starter and the #1 offensive guy, he would consistently have to face better defenders. His numbers and production would go down. Its not rocket science.

You don't give a 3rd option a max contract when he's not once in his career proved he can put his elite numbers up against elite competition. To Spoelstra's credit, he realized that after 2 games and started to put Lebron and Wade on him when they were in the game. He played average at best.

Granted not every team has elite athletic perimeter players like James and Wade to shadow him, but when he goes to another team and is the top option, he'll get every other team's best defense. Any GM worth his salt should realize that and not pay him top free agent money. Superstars get traded and are still superstars. But superstars aren't the 3rd best offensive players on their teams (and Harden isn't even the 3rd best defensive player on the Thunder). He's not a star, he's an elite bench player who benefits from his role on a deep team.

It will be obvious in 2 years when he's playing for another team and his per-minute numbers plummet. Unless of course he somehow goes to another team with multiple players who are better than him, which isn't financially feasible. If James Harden was a stock, sell him before the end of next season, because his value will never be higher

6/22/2012 1:39:28 AM

His usage rate will go up so his effiency may slip a little if he plays for a truly awful team.

But he will enter mvp discussions once he's the #1 guy somewhere. He's just that good, period.

6/22/2012 3:49:12 PM

Rumor is the #2 for Horford. That would be just ridiculous, he's one of the best players in the league.

6/24/2012 6:12:49 PM

I thought they were trading it for that scrub durant.

6/24/2012 7:10:05 PM

#2 & #31 for Durant & Harden is what I've heard

6/24/2012 8:07:26 PM

Bobcats just need to trade for clevelands two picks, draft MKG and Terrance Jones, and then hope Lamb falls to them in the second round. People were saying that UK would beat the Bobcats all year, so may as well make UK's basketball team the new Bobcats

6/24/2012 11:17:38 PM

If they can make the trade happen with Cleveland, you absolutely do it. Cleveland will take Beal and Washington probably takes MKG, leaving T-Rob there for the taking at 4. He's probably going to be the Bobcats pick at #2 if they stay. I'm really warming up to him, if only because he'll instantly be one of the top rebounding PFs in the league.

At #24, you can get a high-upside SF like Royce White or Quincy Miller, off-setting the safe pick (Robinson). Then you can grab a shooter like John Jenkins or Doron Lamb in the 2nd.

6/25/2012 12:38:42 PM

It doesn't matter what happens, somehow charlotte will end up with barnes.

6/25/2012 12:53:59 PM

Bulls sending Deng and the 29th pick to the Cats for MKG.

rumors

6/25/2012 12:59:47 PM

Fuck that

^^and that

6/25/2012 1:05:26 PM

Charlotte will definitely end up with Barnes

6/25/2012 1:38:45 PM