Doesn't seem to be a very substantive point. What's your reasoning leading you to conclude that there is just a "negative effect"?

5/28/2006 6:45:20 PM

because they dont go to jail

5/28/2006 6:47:27 PM

So? ruined =/= imprisoned.

5/28/2006 6:49:20 PM

I'd say your life is ruined if you go to prison. Shelden Williams and Kobe Bryant come to mind. How's life workin out for them?

5/28/2006 6:50:54 PM

I'm not saying your life is NOT ruined if you're imprisoned. On the contrapositive. I'm arguing that just because you are not imprisoned does not mean that there are not extremely severe lifelong consequences. Is this an incorrect statement? If so, then explain the error.

5/28/2006 6:52:10 PM

Quote :

"woman said she was "about 90 percent sure" Evans was one of her assailants, but said he had a mustache that night. Evans' lawyers have said they have photographic proof that Evans did not have mustache. Having a mustache is against lacrosse team policy."

Time to find the mustache guy! I think a reasonable first step is to collect DNA samples from every white man in Durham.

5/28/2006 6:54:16 PM

so this is what you see in your head?

"I like this guy Reade Seligmann for this job because he is the most qualified applicant and a good fit. BUT we cant hire him because he didnt rape someone 6 years ago at duke. We only hire convicted rapists"

5/28/2006 6:55:05 PM

This is what I see: "Hey, isn't that the guy that thousands of women and minorities protested against a few months ago? Do we want him?"

"Why were you suspended from school? Wild party? Accused of sexual assault? Yeah..."

5/28/2006 7:08:50 PM

I think you've found a great way to confuse people in court, Chuck.

"It is not my contention that not q if p. On the contrapositive..."

5/28/2006 7:36:59 PM

Quote :

"so this is what you see in your head? "I like this guy Reade Seligmann for this job because he is the most qualified applicant and a good fit. BUT we cant hire him because he didnt rape someone 6 years ago at duke. We only hire convicted rapists""

How about this:

These guys are essentialy guilty in the mind of Durham's public and probably some of the student body. Personaly, even if I was aquitted in their position, I'm not too inclided to stay at Duke.

Furthermore, reinstating their athletic career would be rather difficult. Not many teams are going to want to take someone that was accused of rape, especialy because if they ever do get in trouble (as athletes do for various reasons) it will all come back up again. They're a liability that most people aren't going to want to take unless they are the best of the best, and I'm fairly sure these guys aren't.

And forget any career that would involve politics.

Being accused and indicted of a crime is a rather substantial burden that can and will have negative impacts on the rest of your life, whether financialy or otherwise.

Even worse, despite the fact that all the evidence seems to point against them they were still indicted, that will certainly make them guilty in many people's eyes regardless of trial outcome. The court of public opinion is not as fair as a court of law.

Last but not least, these kids can't go back to school until the trial is OVER. And the trial isn't set ot begin until NEXT YEAR. Do you not think a forced year out of school (in which they will likely not be fired for any jobs) will not have detrimental effects on them?

5/28/2006 8:43:28 PM

For 21 pages now you have all bandied wits and tossed about racial slurs with vehemant distaste.

Either a woman was raped or a woman lied about being raped.
Race is an issue, not because she was black, or because they accused were white, but because both coinsided.

If they hadn't been Duke athletes, or she hadn't been an NCCU student who made her money as a stripper the furer over this wouldn't have been nearly as fever pitched.

You all wouldn't be calling for her head if the accused and presumably innocent weren't affluent white Duke students were average joes. You care because they had a "reputation" to tarnish in the first place.

The rest of you wouldn't be so incited to hate if she hadn't been a poor BLACK woman who was "forced" to make her money as a stripper.

Get over yourselves

5/28/2006 9:24:13 PM

^best mothafuckin first post ever. [/thread]

5/28/2006 9:45:19 PM

you do realize he's calling you out too?

but, honestly, i don't care about this case because the accuser is black, i'm just sickened how these accusations have brought out blatant racism and sexism in people. not to mention, i can't imagine a less douchey group of people than duke lacrosse players.

5/28/2006 9:56:42 PM

^Right. To me about everyone involved in this mess seems like a douchebag. It's unfortunate that the lacrosse players are getting railroaded but a basic level of civility could have spared them the pain.

5/28/2006 10:10:23 PM

Just because someone is not a saint does not mean he deserves to have his life torn apart for something he didn't do.

Let the one who is without sin cast the first stone.


(BTW - I heard a non offensive religous joke recently.. so Jesus is there and they want to stone Mary of Magdala; and Jesus says "Let the one who is without sin cast the first stone." All the Pharisees go away, and as Jesus kneels down to talk to Mary Magdalene, suddenly *fwoom* a stone comes flying up.. Jesus turns around and says "AW MOM!!")

5/28/2006 10:42:04 PM

This entire situation is complete bullshit. I hardly think a situation like this, no matter how tragic it is, should be used as a catalyst for further racism. People are putting way too much stock into what did/did not happen. It isn't that big of a deal. This incident does not reflect the attitudes of every American white person. I think it is fucking stupid that ignorant black people are using this as a defense in stating that they are still being oppressed and whatever else they babble about.


It is not that big of a deal.

5/28/2006 11:03:39 PM

Quote :

"You all wouldn't be calling for her head if the accused and presumably innocent weren't affluent white Duke students were average joes."

because nc students have much love for dookies

5/28/2006 11:49:26 PM

Quote :

"I think it is fucking stupid that ignorant black people are using this as a defense in stating that they are still being oppressed and whatever else they babble about."

all I really need to say is STFU

5/28/2006 11:51:30 PM

^i think he is referencing the quote that came out near the beginning of press coverage saying that even if they didn't do it, they should be found guilty to make up for the past or something along those lines. i remember reading it but can't find it currently, will attempt to find it later.

5/29/2006 12:37:44 AM

^I read that quote as well. Stupidest route to equality ever.

5/29/2006 12:41:42 AM

Quote :

"For 21 pages now you have all bandied wits and tossed about racial slurs with vehemant distaste. Either a woman was raped or a woman lied about being raped. Race is an issue, not because she was black, or because they accused were white, but because both coinsided. If they hadn't been Duke athletes, or she hadn't been an NCCU student who made her money as a stripper the furer over this wouldn't have been nearly as fever pitched. You all wouldn't be calling for her head if the accused and presumably innocent weren't affluent white Duke students were average joes. You care because they had a "reputation" to tarnish in the first place. The rest of you wouldn't be so incited to hate if she hadn't been a poor BLACK woman who was "forced" to make her money as a stripper. Get over yourselves"

All fluff... you make a shit ton of assumptions about why people hold the opinions they do and quite frankly seem pretty far off base from the people I've talked to about it. THe extra details only had color to the situation but in no way do they make this joke a prosecution any better or worse... in fact I would probably be MORE upset reading about this if it were an average joe college student simply because I know he couldn't afford the representation that the Duke kids are getting. Of course it goes both ways because had these guys not been rich, white Duke students and the defendant not a struggling, black student/stripper the DA would not have amplified the movement to prosecute. Heightened reactions are pretty much a direct result of the asinine DA and the inflated coverage but not personal feelings about the specific roles of the defendant or alleged victim.

5/29/2006 1:48:45 AM

^ Hey now, you save all that makin' sense talk for the Soap Box, mister.

Don't go fillin' their pretty little heads with something complicated like reasoning.

5/29/2006 2:13:16 AM

Quote :

"i think he is referencing the quote that came out near the beginning of press coverage saying that even if they didn't do it, they should be found guilty to make up for the past or something along those lines. i remember reading it but can't find it currently, will attempt to find it later. "

Most people dont really think this way, and its as easy to find an angry black person as it is to fins an angry white person

5/29/2006 4:44:56 AM

^oh i agree. i'm just saying he wasn't being blatantly ignorant by saying what he said, although he was using a single source if he was referencing the same quote i was.

5/29/2006 7:39:39 AM

^yep

Quote :

"Stupidest route to equality ever"

The sad thing is that its working to an extent. Because of legislature and all of the bullshit equal rights but above white people treatment they are in some ways getting what they want, but they really don't want equality. They want to be put above caucasian people in every positive manner, not through hard work and actually being equal but by being aided and babied along by being allowed to pull the equal rights card out anytime something does not go their way. For example, if a white person and a black person want a job and they have the same qualifications and experience etc. besides skin color, if the white person is not hired, he can't do shit and won't do shit. He will go on his way and keep job searching. If the black person is not hired, he can pull the discrimination claim and cause all sorts of trouble for the employer. I am not saying this happens all the time or even some of the time, but it does happen and is one example of how blacks say they want equal rights when really they just use it as an easy way out for the payoff of hard work. Shit like that pisses me off and there are more examples everywhere, that was just the one that comes to mind.


People call it getting niggered over for a reason...its shit niggers do, i don't know of anyone that got whited or crackered over lately.

[Edited on May 29, 2006 at 1:26 PM. Reason : ]

5/29/2006 1:24:28 PM

You will be happy to know that Myrtle Beach wasn't as racist this year aginst Black Biker Week.


But you know they have seprate but equal bike weeks. This weekend is black week, the prior weekend is white biker week.

5/29/2006 1:39:06 PM

why do the blacks get the long weekend, huh? bunch of fucking racist bullshit i tell you what.[/sarcasm]

5/29/2006 1:41:33 PM

when is azn bike week?

5/29/2006 1:53:05 PM

^^i bet half of the restaurants were closed down there though

5/29/2006 2:27:47 PM

^^^^^ You are retarded.

5/29/2006 2:46:22 PM

Just heard the accuser "changed her mind".

5/29/2006 3:01:43 PM

where?

5/29/2006 3:13:26 PM

???

5/29/2006 3:18:36 PM

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12995038/

dunno if it's new or not.

5/29/2006 3:50:07 PM

Its new to this thread, but has been in the news for a day or two.

It further discredits the accusor.

I also agree with the anchors on Fox News........where is the fucking toxicology report??????

5/29/2006 3:53:07 PM

Quote :

"He looks like one of the guys who assaulted me, sort of"

SORT OF?

5/29/2006 3:53:21 PM

^^believe it or not, the media doesn't get every piece of evidence. but the defense is sure to leak as much negative about the stripper as they can to discredit her in the public eye.

5/29/2006 6:06:39 PM

The media may not directly, but the defense sure does. At least they're supposed to. That's the point - why is the prosecution withholding evidence?

[Edited on May 29, 2006 at 6:21 PM. Reason : add]

5/29/2006 6:21:41 PM

do you really know that they are withholding evidence? waht do you really know? you know what fox news tells you, so nothing pretty much

5/29/2006 6:26:32 PM

Well, there must be a toxicology report, and they are not sharing it... that is sort of the definition of "withholding", is it not?

You people really are making this too easy

[Edited on May 29, 2006 at 7:09 PM. Reason : withholding.. verb..]

5/29/2006 7:09:11 PM

the prosecution isn't required to (nor do i think they should) produce every bit of evidence to the PRESS. Yes, they should give it to the defense, but not to the press.

Do you think that the defense would show damning evidence to the press? I doubt it. They'll only show what is beneficial to their client (just as they should).

Perhaps the prosecution is just waiting for the actual trial to begin.

5/29/2006 7:13:05 PM

The prosecution wasn't interested in waiting for the trial to begin while Nifong was giving his dozens and dozens of interviews. Why would he be interested in it now?

5/29/2006 7:16:43 PM

speculation.

5/29/2006 7:19:11 PM

you say that like all the defense lawyers arent giving a bunch of interviews

5/29/2006 7:20:12 PM

were they first?

5/29/2006 7:28:21 PM

what difference does that make?

5/29/2006 7:30:17 PM

no, no they weren't.... HMMMM

5/29/2006 7:31:04 PM

both sides are using the media. but guess who's better at it. . . (i'm gonna go with the defense lawyers who were hired because they're good at working the media).

5/29/2006 7:31:58 PM

hmm lets see - yep, the prosecution has NO FUCKING BUSINESS "using" the media.

5/29/2006 7:53:19 PM

"speculation" was your response.

That doesn't seem to be much of a response. Are you conceding the point?

5/29/2006 7:53:45 PM