No need to be jealous. You could definitely do that.

From yesterday:
Deadlift max effort program:
5 x 75%
5 x 80%
5 x 85%
5 sets of 8-10 x60%

My form actually got better as I increased weight. Also, I don't know why, but I sleep really hard after doing deadlifts. It's great.

And then the WOD:
5 sets for max weight:
Hang Power Snatch, 3 reps

Then, 5 rounds for time:
Knees-to-elbows, 15 reps
Rest, 30 seconds

95lbs / 8:35

Didn't go max weight because I wanted to focus on form.

12/10/2011 10:40:30 AM

the handstand would take more work, as well as weight loss..

i cant wait to start deadlifting again

12/10/2011 12:02:23 PM

To everyone, what are your favorite lifts?

Here is mine in decreasing order:

power clean
overhead squat
deadlift
back squat
front squat
thruster
sumo high pulls


SNATCH(hate hate hate hate)

PS-
Here is Camacho's take on that Strongman video. I'm with him on this one. Sometimes, trainers take the word functional fitness too far.

http://crossfitoneworld.typepad.com/crossfit_one_world/2011/12/12102011.html

12/10/2011 10:16:47 PM

Dead Lift
Back Squat
Front Squat
Clean and Jerk
Power Clean
Power Snatch



Overhead Squat
Thruster

Hate both of those, the only reason I hate the overhead squat is because I need to work on my flexibility (I have a hard time staying on my heels with just light weight). Thrusters just wear me out worse than any other lift, absolutely hate those things.

12/10/2011 10:33:16 PM

deadlift
snatch
back squat

front squat
overhead squat

thrusters
power clean (I did get better at them from when I was having major issues, but still am not a fan)

12/11/2011 12:40:30 AM

Okay, so let me preface this by saying I'm not here to rain on anyone's parade, or start a fight...I have a legit question.

If Crossfit is so effective, why is it that I see a lot of people who do it on a regular basis who don't look particularly good? I know that results vary, but I have met people before who hit the gym regularly, and swear by Crossfit, but they just look...average. (I'm not discounting the workout...I have seen people in phenomenal shape who do Crossfit.)

I looked at one of those videos above where they were making fun of the Crossfit people for doing the Strongman lift, and those girls really didn't look like they were in any kind of shape at all. You guys obviously see far more Crossfitters than I do...am I seeing an unrepresentative sample?

12/11/2011 10:40:49 AM

It's not like all runners look like they're super in shape. Or all people who follow the Starting Strength program, or do Zumba, or whatever. There are always going to be all types on any kind of program. And you also can't judge fitness purely by appearance. People can be really strong or fit in some other way without you being able to look at them and think they're ripped. That part depends on diet. I don't think anyone claims that doing Crossfit = being ripped for all people. I'm certainly not, but I'm stronger than I was before I started it, and I'm happy with the way I look, and that's really my goal.

12/11/2011 11:28:09 AM

Quote :

"If Crossfit is so effective, why is it that I see a lot of people who do it on a regular basis who don't look particularly good? I know that results vary, but I have met people before who hit the gym regularly, and swear by Crossfit, but they just look...average. (I'm not discounting the workout...I have seen people in phenomenal shape who do Crossfit.)"

It makes perfect sense that this would be the case. Unlike strength training, where you progressively are adding weight to the bar every week on compound lifts, Crossfit works off of the "workout of the day". If you're doing whatever the WotD is (which, from what I've seen, often includes wayyyyy too many reps), you aren't necessarily getting stronger. You might be burning a shitload of calories or getting in some decent conditioning, but you won't see the same results you get from a structured, Starting Strength style program.

12/11/2011 11:40:26 AM

Quote :

"what are your favorite lifts?"

Clean and Jerk
Thrusters
front squat
deadlift
back squat
Snatch and OH squat - Hate Hate Hate

Quote :

"If Crossfit is so effective, why is it that I see a lot of people who do it on a regular basis who don't look particularly good?"

From my experience, the general programs are not designed to get you super bulky. So you will be getting stronger, it just wont be simply from picking things up and setting things down in the same movement every other day for 6 months. You are getting stronger in a more efficacious way than by doing 3x10 curls. But that doesn't mean that you can't do oly and power lifts along with the normal WOD. There is a program for those lifts at most of the boxes.


[Edited on December 11, 2011 at 12:50 PM. Reason : 1]

12/11/2011 12:48:23 PM

There is absolutely only ONE answer to the question about how people look...


DIET

There are people who kill WODs, but still eat like shit. "Doing CrossFit" will not somehow magically counteract shitty dietary habits.

12/11/2011 5:10:04 PM

if it were just a matter of diet, then there wouldn't be bodybuilders that eat complete garbage yet look ripped and muscular.

Crossfit is designed to make people good at a whole lot of things, but not great at any one thing. It won't make you look super muscular because it's not supposed to be all about muscle hypertrophy. If anything, muscle hypertrophy is the only thing that crossfit doesn't do. It will make you stronger and it will improve you cardiovascular health, but it's not going to make you look like a bodybuilder.

I personally feel like most crossfit workouts overtrain the type of hardgainer bodytypes that tend to flock to crossfit. As a result, their bodies hold onto body fat and water and cause them to have a soft look.

12/11/2011 8:32:30 PM

I think that comes down to what you consider "looking good"

there's a difference between looking athletic and being large (like most bodybuilders)

Bodybuilders are not eating complete garbage and looking ripped and muscular. They might be eating that shit and getting larger in the off season, but I guarantee you they aren't eating it when they're weeks out of competition. You also have to account for the fact that bodybuilders are NOT average people. The one's your referring to are probably already ridiculously muscular...they can swing 10-15lbs and still look pretty good.


There is no such thing as overtraining...just under-eating and under-resting

12/12/2011 9:15:24 AM

if you don't believe that overtraining is a very real and very common condition, then you need to stop offering advice in any thread about training. food and rest are not enough to recover the body from excessive training volume. you could even add massive amounts of steroids into the mix and still be capable of overtraining if you're doing too much volume training.

and if you don't believe there are bodybuilders who eat pure garbage, then you don't know enough bodybuilders. There are a few in my gym that will freely admit to being able to eat nonchalantly and stay lean and muscular. Some do it with genetics, some do it with drugs, but they all focus on making sure their weightlifting is limited in volume and make up for any extra calories they want to burn off through low intensity cardio.

12/12/2011 11:23:04 AM

I get tired of going back and forth with you


YOU KNOW EVERYTHING

^ eating lots of garbage (and also doing cardio to compensate) and looking ripped is not the same as "eating tons of garbage and still being ripped"

Also, I was making a very broad statement about overtraining. It really is going to vary on each individual person. There is no set amount of volume that every single person can handle. The key is listening to your body and resting when needed. I've seen too many people doing lots of volume and not eating enough as well. Take home message: listen to your body and don't be fucking stupid.

[Edited on December 12, 2011 at 2:45 PM. Reason : ]

12/12/2011 2:41:33 PM

Quote :

"^ eating lots of garbage (and also doing cardio to compensate) and looking ripped is not the same as "eating tons of garbage and still being ripped" "

it is the exact same thing, and it completely contradicts the statement you tried to make earlier that diet is everything. diet is going to play a critical role in body weight, but it's going to provide little to no effect on body composition at that weight. outside of insulin and GH, diet has very little effect on the hormonal changes that occur after specific types of training.

12/12/2011 3:58:50 PM

Wait what?

Diet affects body weight, but not body composition?

12/12/2011 4:12:14 PM

For people who spend a couple hours in the gym every day compensating for eating crap, no, diet might not make a huge difference. But the average person doesn't do that. The original argument was over people who "do Crossfit" looking average. It's because many of us are average. We do the workouts a few times a week and aren't entirely strict with the diet side of things, because we're OK with that (or not dedicated enough, or making excuses, or don't know any better, or whatever).

I feel like I am in better shape when I do Crossfit, and most of all I enjoy it, so it works for me. I know I'd see better results from a "you go to the gym to get lean and ripped" perspective if I never ate cookies or drank beer, but I like cookies and beer, and I think I look pretty decent, so what's the big deal? "Looking average" doesn't always equal being out of shape or weak or what have you.

12/12/2011 4:17:35 PM

Quote :

"There is no such thing as overtraining...just under-eating and under-resting"

from the group that will have you max out your deadlift, do 400m sprints until you've done three miles, and then do 5 sets of 25 power cleans. and then the next day is front squat 1RM day! that is a sure-fire way to get yourself into sever muscle catabolism in a hurry.

12/12/2011 4:48:40 PM

If you're spending a couple hours in the gym every day to compensate for "eating crap", you're doing it wrong...really, really wrong.

You don't have to choose between "being ripped" and eating good food. Using intermittent fasting or just utilizing portion control, it's possible to cycle between building muscle and losing fat. Cardio isn't even necessary - check out leangains.com to see what I'm talking about.

To keep it simple, you want to structure your eating habits around your training. Note here that when I say training, I don't mean doing 500 burpees and some poor form pull ups - that's going to strip muscle off pretty quickly. It'll burn some calories for sure, but it won't give you the shape you most likely are looking for. To get "toned" you need to build muscle, i.e. gain strength. To get "lean" with a good degree of muscle definition, you need to lose fat.

Again, Crossfit is a pretty good way to lose weight and burn calories. Losing weight is easy, though. Body re-composition is more complicated, and whether or not most people realize it, re-composition is what they want from an aesthetic standpoint.

12/12/2011 5:02:13 PM

I love bro science

12/12/2011 5:14:47 PM

Then you probably love Crossfit and this thread.

12/12/2011 5:23:50 PM

This is turning into the bodybuilding thread.

Why do people make things more complicated than they need to be.

I'd wager that people who compete in sport (the sport of CrossFit, nfl, nba, even bodybuilders) are going to be borderline overtrained at some point.

For the average person doing crossfit as its meant, taking rest days, eating properly the majority of the time....not so much

12/12/2011 5:33:43 PM

Quote :

"Diet affects body weight, but not body composition? "

diet alone without training or with the wrong type of training isn't going to result in muscle growth and fat loss to result in an athletic physique, which was the original question that sparked this whole debate.

Diet in and of itself will effect weight, from a basic comparison of calories burned -- calories consumed. Where those calories are burned and stored is more of a matter of hormonal responses in the body to the specific type of training you do.

You can eat like a bodybuilder and train like a marathon runner, and you're going to look more like a marathon runner at the end of the day because of hormonal responses to training. A person who doesn't use heavy enough weights or low enough reps is going to have localized growth factors in the trained muscles of their body that promote growth of the smaller Type I fibers and conversion of some Type II fibers to Type I fibers, resulting in smaller muscles with a smooth look. Their body will also focus on dropping unneeded muscle to make the body lighter in an effort to improve cardiovascular efficiency. If the person training takes in more clean food than they're burning, their body is more likely to store the extra calories as fat instead of storing it as muscle, since the fat will be easier to burn the next time more energy is needed for the cardio session.

Likewise, you can eat like a marathon runner with higer carbs and less protein and train like a bodybuilder, and your physique is more likely to match that of a bodybuilder. The strength work will cause localized growth factors to make the Type II muscle fibers bulge and swell, giving the muscles more definition and striation. These hormones will also trigger the body to adapt into realizing that more strength and power is needed, so the body will hold onto muscle over fat in a slight caloric deficit and try to build extra muscle whenever possible in a caloric surplus. Now, this isn't to say that the marathon diet is just as good as the bodybuilder diet is for obtaining a bodybuilder's physique, but it has less of an impact on the physique than the style of training does.

The reason I said all of this is because of how it applies to the training methods implemented in Crossfit. The typical crossfit workout uses low weights for high volume combined with high intensity cardio. Every now and then some max effort strength work gets thrown in, but not enough to throw off the hormonal signals that are occurring during the rest of the volume training. The end result is the body thinking it needs to be lighter in order to adapt to the volume training and cardio work being encountered. This is why you'll never see a crossfitter that looks as big and muscular as many bodybuilders or, say, a football or shot event track athlete.

The other major factor with crossfit that effects body composition is overtraining. A lot of the more die-hard crossfit enthusiasts tend to be so enthused by crossfit that they want to do it every day, especially if they are using crossfit as a form of weight management. Most people cannot train at this level without overtraining, especially with the way the workouts are structured based on time. Even the untimed max effort strength work they do is intense and strenuous on the body. When a person overtrains, their body is going to stop building muscle, start holding onto fat, and increase water retention. Diet isn't going to correct it, and good sleep isn't going to correct it. The only way to fix it is to stop training for a couple of days and start back at a reduced volume.

12/12/2011 5:48:49 PM

Again though, what's "too much volume"

I've seen some bodybuilding regimens (umm Arnold's routine rings a bell) that is WAY more volume or at least comparable in volume to a CrossFit WOD.

12/12/2011 7:10:29 PM

you could read 50 different "Arnold" training programs and they all would say something different. If there's one thing Arnold was known for, it was lying about his training routines. A lot of his workouts were extremely overinflated in writing, as he was instructed to do by Joe Weider, mainly because Joe Weider didn't like the marketability of the low volume workouts made famous by the Mentzer brothers around that same time.

Keep in mind that you're also talking about a genetically gifted individual training with the help of steroids and other pharmaceuticals. He also didn't train very fast either. A doctor once commented that Arnold probably burned about 350 calories in a one hour training session. I'd imagine the average crossfit workout is twice that rate, if not more, for an athlete his size.

Any bodybuilder that trains for more than 45 minutes in a session is either dragging ass or doing WAAAAAY too much volume. Powerlifters train much longer because they train at much slower speeds without a lot of intensity.

12/12/2011 8:03:08 PM

I'd like to note that when losing weight, keeping a high protein diet will aid in lean mass retention. Combined with appropriate strength training, recomp results are usually optimal.

12/12/2011 8:44:57 PM

So for my overtraining log, here's what I did Saturday. NOTE, this was for competition. I've taken 2 FULL rest days off (plenty of rest, food, and hydrating)

http://www.carolinafitnesschallenge.com

Event 1

Max ground to Overhead (3 min time cap)
clean and jerked 225#
just missed 230#

Event 2

As many round as possible in 12 min

20 Air Squats, with 45# plate
20m Overhead Walking Lunges, w/45# plate
20 Hand Release Plyo Pushups
20m Run, w/45# plate

3 Rounds + squats, lunges, and 1 pushup (this was miserable)

made the first cut...Top 50 went on

Event 3

21-15-9
Wall Ball, 30# slam ball
Deadlifts, 275#
Burpee
(10 min time cap)

immediately upon completion:
2 min max toes-2-bar

made it to the round of 9's and did 5 of the wall balls. Wasn't going to finish, so I rested for 15 seconds and then did 26 toes to bar


fun event over all....lots of great athletes from NC

12/12/2011 10:21:47 PM

Nice job. How many people showed up for that?

12/13/2011 12:14:54 PM

That last WOD looks like hell. I love how they take what would be a WOD I would enjoy and then basically say screw you by adding burpees haha (not that I would really enjoy the 30# wallballs either)

12/13/2011 12:20:31 PM

^^there were at least 500 people there (competitors, spectators, judges, vendors)

There was mens open, masters men, womens open, and masters women

I placed 46th/80 in mens open....my goal was top 50

I'm happy with that based on what I've actually been able to do to prepare

Now my focus is on the opens


ALSO, the FINAL event (for top 10) was:

100 double unders

then:
90 squat thrusters, 95#
90 pull-ups

complete for time in any order

[Edited on December 13, 2011 at 4:21 PM. Reason : ]

12/13/2011 4:21:06 PM

I've ran with a med ball before which I thought was pretty awkward...I can imagine running with a plate is twice as awkward

12/13/2011 4:43:18 PM

Running with a plate sucks, I put it behind my neck and get a nice bruise on the top of my back/bottom of my neck. Sandbags are so much better.

[Edited on December 13, 2011 at 5:37 PM. Reason : .]

12/13/2011 5:36:53 PM

Was it a bumper plate or did it have "handles "

12/13/2011 5:57:04 PM

When I ran with a plate it was a bumper plate, one with "handles" would be a lot easier, would still prefer a sandbag though.

12/13/2011 6:07:57 PM

Good day
Max effort:
Bench press
3 x 185
3 X 195
4 X 205
5 sets of 10 x 135

Then GP:
7 sets of 1 rep max Clean and Jerk - 95lbs-135lbs
Tabata Ab Wheel

12/14/2011 10:49:26 PM

Snatches up to 145


then superset, 5 rounds

Hang Snatch + snatch 115#
*1&1/4 Front Squat 145#x3
rest 2min

Push Press up to 165x2


then:

3 rounds
3 muscleups
50 abmat situps
6:54

*1&1/4 squats - go all the way down, up to parallel, back down, all the way up = 1 rep

12/15/2011 8:32:45 AM

Eva!!
5 rounds for time:
Run, 800 meters
Kettlebell Swing, 30 reps, 70/53#
Pull-up, 30 reps

They put a 35 minute cap on it and I was only able to do 3 rounds in that time.

12/15/2011 7:41:54 PM

5 Rounds
30 Double Unders
10 MB Cleans, 20#
4:48

then immediately after:

Power Cleans
165x1
185x1
205x1
215x1
185x3

12/15/2011 9:09:29 PM

Kelly is worst than Eva.

YUCK!!!

12/15/2011 9:30:15 PM

What's Kelly?

12/15/2011 9:35:25 PM

KELLY is:
5 rounds
400m run
30 box jumps
30 wall balls

ALL LUNGS.

I tested out my back Tues since the injury about 2.5 weeks ago with some weight on the bar(25lb):
AMRAP 25
Start at one end of the floor with:
7 hang power snatch
7 OHS
7 back of the neck jerks
then, walk with the bar overhead to the other end of the floor. Repeat movements here.

Would love to do this with heavier weight when my back is 100%.

[Edited on December 15, 2011 at 9:53 PM. Reason : Didn't have any means to measure the floor, but it was a decent distance.]

12/15/2011 9:52:37 PM

Max distance in 12 min
2600m

AMRAP 14
1 DL, 315#
9 bar facing Burpees
6 dead hang pull ups
3 muscle ups
48 single unders

5 rds + 17

12/18/2011 2:29:39 PM

...

[Edited on December 19, 2011 at 8:26 AM. Reason : ..]

12/19/2011 8:26:03 AM

So I'm moving soon and it looks like there's a Crossfit gym right near my new place. I'll only be there for 3 months, so the fact that this gym has a 3 month "membership" is pretty optimal...

Except for the fact that 2x a week is $382.50 and 3x a week is $471.75.

It's entirely possible that I just don't get it, but how in the world is that reasonable? Is that really what people are paying to go to these classes?

12/19/2011 9:35:34 AM

Yeah, I think it's ridiculous. When I was at a box, I did a punch card for 20/$250. Which comes out to be 12.50/class. Obviously, the more you classes buy the less you pay. Most gyms will sell unlimited packages anywhere between $150 to $180 a month. Means you can come as many times as you want in that month.

The best rates I've seen is $75/month unlimited at CrossFit Springfrield(MO). But then again, they have about 500 members; they can afford lower rates. The newer gyms will charge you more. Money has to come from somewhere to pay for the affiliate dues, etc.

I think CF headquarters charges $2,000 for affiliate dues. And then the recertifications is about the same price I think. So yeah, given the high fees headquarters charges the box/owners, I understand why rates are so high, especially for the newer boxes with few members.

Don't quote me on the affiliate dues though,Packman probably knows for sure...

12/19/2011 11:39:46 AM

I know some people in Charlotte that pay ~$200/month for their memeberships

12/19/2011 11:42:33 AM

OH YEAH. Equipment and rent/lease. That's the main thing.

Kettlebells, bumper plates,Olympic bars, etc.

They're expensive as hell.

12/19/2011 11:44:13 AM

How often does one generally do Crossfit?

Like -- in the past I've gone to the gym between 2 and 4 times a week. I'm guess you tend to go less with Crossfit?

12/19/2011 12:32:12 PM

Affiliate dues are now $3k/year

I CF 5x/week

12/19/2011 12:54:03 PM

When you ultimately open your own Crossfit gym, I want you to be wildly successful.

(and give me a discount, thx)

12/19/2011 2:33:47 PM