as cold as it sounds, the NCAA ain't the morality police

7/24/2012 8:52:36 PM

they're not the morality police, but they're also not the gov't, they're a business. institutionalized rape is bad for business.

i don't understand why people have such a problem w/ this. it's not penn state's biblical right to field a good football team, and they're welcome to take their football team and leave... which actually may happen, but it won't be b/c of this.

7/24/2012 8:58:00 PM

Quote :

"No, not when it comes to covering up for 14 years of child rape. Maybe you don't have kids. But any organization whose culture would support the 3 most powerful people in leadership positions even thinking about not reporting child rape to protect it's image is an organization that needs to be shut down."

no, i think any PEOPLE who would do that should go to jail for a long long time. are you now telling me that every person at the school is guilty because joepa wanted to protect his buddy? should we throw everyone with a PennState diploma or t-shirt in jail, just to make you happy?



but tell me, would you want to be a part of any organization that didn't even follow its own rules? would you consider that a rational organization?

7/24/2012 9:00:28 PM

the ncaa doesn't have PEOPLE as members, it has UNIVERSITIES. penn state is being punished as a UNIVERSITY.

also, what are we talking about man? the football team. not an academic department, not the campus, not the people on campus, but the football team. all of the sudden the team you play for isn't as good as it used to be... worse things have happened. like systematically allowing a man to rape young boys, for instance.

7/24/2012 9:07:03 PM

again, this comes from listening to David Glenn earlier, but I agree 100%

this was a total PR move by the NCAA that was completely influenced by public opinion. whenever public opinion/outrage factors so heavily into your decision making process, that's a dangerous precedent to set

you have rules and a process that you've followed ever since establishing those rules and completely ignoring that process because of public outrage is ridiculous

7/24/2012 9:10:23 PM

Quote :

"the ncaa doesn't have PEOPLE as members, it has UNIVERSITIES. penn state is being punished as a UNIVERSITY."

too bad the UNIVERSITY didn't do anything. 4 fucked up people did. The BOT didn't get together and pass policies that said "hey, if you see some little kid getting cornholed, hide it".

7/24/2012 9:16:53 PM

as has already been pointed out to you, under that mentality nothing should ever be punished.

7/24/2012 9:31:37 PM

Quote :

"too bad the UNIVERSITY didn't do anything"

But they did. They fostered a culture where this could happen. It would be one thing if it stopped with JoPa. But how fucked up must the 'win at all cost' culture be at PSU where the 3 highest officials (HC, AD, and pres) would think to hide a child rapist to protect their image? This isn't one person fucking up. This is institutional corruption at its worst.

7/24/2012 9:33:44 PM

Quote :

"as has already been pointed out to you, under that mentality nothing should ever be punished."

incorrectly pointed out and refuted. I've never said no one should be held accountable, nor did I say that no one should be punished. However, I think the actually guilty should be punished, not just whoever the fuck you can get your hands on to satisfy your bloodlust.

Quote :

"But they did. They fostered a culture where this could happen."

Really? There's a university policy that says "buttfucking little boys is OK"? The only "culture" that was fostered was that of "power is fucking awesome," and you are going to be hard pressed to get rid of that "culture" all over the world.

Quote :

"It would be one thing if it stopped with JoPa. But how fucked up must the 'win at all cost' culture be at PSU where the 3 highest officials (HC, AD, and pres) would think to hide a child rapist to protect their image?"

Well for that to be the case, first said culture needs to actually be responsible. You are a fucking idiot if you think that these people thought that buttfucking little boys would help them win football games. You are a fucking moron if you think that any of this was covered up to "protect the university's image." On the contrary, if JoePa had brought this shit up immediately when he found out, he would have been hailed as a fucking hero! He would have been deified on the spot, moreso than he already was. JoePa used his power to protect his friend. Then he used his power to protect himself when he saw that he had fucked up and didn't get rid of a child molester. THAT is what happened. No one was thinking that hiding a child molester was a way to win football games

7/24/2012 9:38:56 PM

^^ right.

thegoodlife3: i don't disagree, really, but i also don't think that this is really a precedent that will be kept up with. the ncaa has had a lot of negative attention lately for valuing money too high and people too low, and they really couldn't sit back and not publicly denounce what happened at penn state. i think they'll get a lot of press saying they overreacted and in a month think to themselves that they probably did overreact and will remember that going forward. that said, i don't have a problem w/ the penalties they got given how disgusting (and hopefully rare) the circumstances are. this is really kind of a no rules scenario, you just do what you have to to save face.

^ i try not to actually call people stupid on the internet, but since you seem to have no problem doing it, you are so fucking dumb. and this isn't new.

[Edited on July 24, 2012 at 9:42 PM. Reason : .]

7/24/2012 9:40:28 PM

yeah. fuck doing the right thing. just do something. fuck following the rules, even though you're upset that someone else really didn't follow the law. just do something. that's fucking brilliant, dude.

saving face is coming out and issuing a statement that says "this shit is reprehensible. no one should be above the law, and we're glad the law is finally handling this situation. fuck, Penn State, that shit is terrible!" This, however, is the NCAA thinking they are more important than they are

[Edited on July 24, 2012 at 9:43 PM. Reason : ]

7/24/2012 9:41:47 PM

this is what i'm trying to explain to you: there is no "right" thing when it comes to ncaa violations. we're talking about an organization that oversees football. that's all they do. them fucking up is not a tragedy.

7/24/2012 9:44:09 PM

following their existing policies is the "right" thing. following their own rules so people are fucked by them not following their own rules is the "right" thing. Sure, the consequences aren't all that bad. A couple guys miss out on playing sports. whoopty fucking do. But I'd still like for the right thing to be done.

you're right. it's football. let the NCAA worry about football, and let the courts worry about criminals

7/24/2012 9:46:33 PM

Quote :

"JoePa used his power to protect his friend."

Bullshit. It was to protect the football program. DC was fucking boys in the PSU shower. You don't think that would impact recruiting?

But if he was doing so to protect his friend then JoPa is even worse of a piece of shit than I thought. Protecting a child rapist just b/c he's your friend means JoPa condones child rape? Fuck JoPa.

7/24/2012 9:50:47 PM

Quote :

"Bullshit. It was to protect the football program. DC was fucking boys in the PSU shower. You don't think that would impact recruiting?"

There'd be some snide jokes, sure, but it would blow over very quickly. Again, there would be so many stories hailing JoePa as a hero looking out for little kids, that the original story would almost be forgotten. There would be some difficulty from losing the DC, sure, but nothing too bad. The positive press would far outweigh it.

Quote :

"But if he was doing so to protect his friend then JoPa is even worse of a piece of shit than I thought. Protecting a child rapist just b/c he's your friend means JoPa condones child rape? Fuck JoPa."

I fucking agree! Fuck JoePa!!! The way I more imagine it went down is that JS gets caught and his buddies think they can "help him" and forgive him, and they cover it up, thinking that it'll never happen again. Then they find out that JS is a super sick fuck, but they've already broken the law, so they just keep hiding it, cause they can't tell the truth at that point. I don't think anyone really "condoned" child rape, but people sure as fuck did look the other way just to protect themselves

7/24/2012 10:00:50 PM

Quote :

"too bad the UNIVERSITY didn't do anything. 4 fucked up people did"

Three of those people acting in their official capacity as representatives of the university.

7/24/2012 10:05:34 PM

and doing the exact opposite of established UNIVERSITY policy. Or, is it your contention that Penn State's written policies said "cover up child rape to protect football coaches" and that every student was a part of the cover up?

7/24/2012 10:08:37 PM

jumping jesus on a pogo-stick

7/24/2012 10:09:36 PM

I have read Penn State's policy manuals from front to back. I did not find any official policies advocating "cover up child rape to protect football coaches program."

I did, however, find a policy stating that aaronburro is a dumbfuck for failing to realize the severe institutional problems that exist at Penn State.

7/24/2012 10:12:21 PM

and what problem is that? power corrupts? I still can't believe that anyone here is stupid enough to think that 3 people did this just to win football games.

the "institutional problem" is that PEOPLE HAVE POWER. how the fuck are you going to change the fact that people have power at a university? what grand, sweeping changes are you going to suggest that will make it so that no one ever has power again?

[Edited on July 24, 2012 at 10:15 PM. Reason : ]

7/24/2012 10:13:25 PM

So, as long as there is a written policy, it's all good? Even if the culture is such that policy is ignored?

7/24/2012 10:16:33 PM

no, but a written policy goes much further in proving the existence of a culture than a simple claim that some culture exists, especially when the claims to support the culture are "looking the other way as a dude is raping little boys will help us win football games!" The easier, and more logical, explanation is that power corrupts, and the people in power used their power to protect a friend, and then got fucked by that decision.

7/24/2012 10:19:40 PM

It's your "logical" belief that everyone covered up Jerry Sandusky's actions because they're all friends, and that the cover up had nothing to do with the tens of millions of dollars the football program profits every year?

I wish I had BFFs like that

7/24/2012 10:31:24 PM

yes. it's my logical belief that people in power used their power to protect a friend. they then used their power to protect themselves from other people finding out that they protected their friend. that is a far more believable thing than "they thought that covering up the rape of little children would help them win some football games."

7/24/2012 10:52:38 PM

ok, does it really matter *why* they covered up child rape?

they fucking covered up child rape.

7/24/2012 10:59:52 PM

in the grand scheme of things? no. in the context of discussing ncaa penalties, sure.

7/24/2012 11:02:02 PM

we lost post season eligibility because david thompson played a pickup game with an assistant coach and crashed in a friends dorm.

you wanna rationalize a serial child rape coverup?

the fuck is wrong with you.

7/24/2012 11:05:47 PM

well, we broke actual rules, even if they were stupid, and they were rules directly related to athletics. Penn State broke rules that didn't exist and that have nothing to do with athletics and everything to do with the law. Athletic associations punish athletic infractions. The courts punish people who break the law. Are you saying that the refs should throw a penalty flag at the beginning of the game for every parking ticket the coach and the players have picked up that week?

7/24/2012 11:08:38 PM

if you guys stop replying to him, he'll stop posting (as much) in here

7/24/2012 11:10:08 PM

^ thanks, was about to post something similar. Jeesh.

(but if I have to pick sides, it's not aaronburros...just sayin')

7/24/2012 11:20:38 PM

Quote :

"the NCAA ain't the morality police"

True but I have an issue with a university that ranks protecting the football program above reporting a child predator.

7/25/2012 9:19:41 AM

Quote :

"2.4. The Principle of Sportsmanship and Ethical Conduct "For intercollegiate athletics to promote the character development of participants, to enhance the integrity of higher education and to promote civility in society, student-athletes, coaches, and all others associated with these athletics programs and events should adhere to such fundamental values as respect, fairness, civility, honesty and responsibility. These values should be manifest not only in athletics participation, but also in the broad spectrum of activities affecting the athletics program. It is the responsibility of each institution to: (Revised: 1/9/96) "

Looks clear to me.

7/25/2012 9:37:20 AM

Quote :

"a written policy goes much further in proving the existence of a culture than a simple claim that some culture exists"

I think the actions of Penn St. fans show more of the underlying culture than any written official policy ever would. How valuable are written words that laud honesty, integrity, etc. when actions show riots in support of Paterno, fans willingly refusing to acknowledge the Freeh report, even making threats over removing a statue for Pete's sake.

If a part of the NCAA's punishment affects the fans... oh well.

Of course the hope is that the fans you hear about/from are more the exception than the norm. No telling.

[Edited on July 25, 2012 at 9:58 AM. Reason : -]

7/25/2012 9:47:53 AM

Funny how burro is bitching about deregulation now when it comes to sports, but he is all about it when it comes to the rich white man getting richer.

7/25/2012 9:49:19 AM

(he enjoys arguing)

7/25/2012 9:55:12 AM

I think the Penn State situation was one that should have been handled by the law and had people serving jail time. I agree with removing the statue and stripping JoePa of his wins and such but the rest of it was a power play by the NCAA. As for what the NCAA handed down that should be what Carolina deserved for all their shit.

7/25/2012 10:26:59 AM

^ I just don't understand this line of thinking.

Do you not think the football benefited from 1998 - 2011 by covering up the abuse by Sandusky? The whole reason for the cover up and not reporting it was so that nothing happened to the football program.

7/25/2012 10:29:56 AM

I actually don't think they benefited from it. Had they reported it and Sandusky got shitcanned, prosecuted, and jailed it really wouldn't have hurt them from a recruiting or perception standpoint except possibly in the very, very short term. There would have been stories about what a monster Sandusky was and how great it was that Paterno did the right thing and how doing the right thing counted more to him than protecting a friend. Lots of glowing reviews about Paterno as a molder of men, etc.

Furthermore, and this is really just my opinion, they probably would have been better off with a more competent coaching staff. JoePa has been the head coach in name only for the better part of the last 20 years. Penn State has been a pretty mediocre program from 98-04 and were only relevant again when they hired Galen Hall as their offensive coordinator. If they didn't have Sandusky or Paterno I don't think it would have been a detriment.

7/25/2012 10:46:14 AM

Doesn't really matter what you or I think would have happened to the program had they done the right thing. All that matters is JoPa, the AD, and the pres were willing to break the law and enable a child rapist to keep it quite. It's in their emails. It wasn't about protecting a friend. It was about protecting the image of the football program and the school.

[Edited on July 25, 2012 at 10:58 AM. Reason : t]

7/25/2012 10:58:06 AM

Probably true, but I still feel like the NCAA overstepped and handed down penalties for stuff that is outside of what they claim they oversee.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not upset that they got the hammer dropped on them. I am bothered by who did it. If the Big Ten conference or the state of Pennsylvania had done this it would have been hunky dory. The NCAA doing it was purely for show and sets a horrible precedent that they can penalize you for anything they want regardless of whether it is an NCAA infraction or not.

7/25/2012 11:08:48 AM

Hence why I think the law should have handled these wastes of humans and the NCAA should have gone after Carolina with this stuff for blatantly breaking and covering up things that the NCAA actually oversees. As others have said its a terrible precedent. For instance I'm not up to date on it but does this mean Syracuse basketball program is gonna be pounded into the ground next?

7/25/2012 11:23:44 AM

The cover up seems to be less intense, although one has to wonder how their 2005 internal investigation turned up nothing. But, the NCAA has a long history of being wildly unpredictable and not following its own precedent, so who fucking knows.

[Edited on July 25, 2012 at 11:29 AM. Reason : kjghjkh]

7/25/2012 11:28:08 AM

This latest news makes me hate mark emmert even more than I already did.

The NCAA basically threatened penn state with a four year death penalty, then forced them to agree with what was announced.

And they kept the board of trustees in the dark. Fuck all of this, man.

[Edited on July 25, 2012 at 9:05 PM. Reason : and penn state broke no rules, since they didn't go before the committee on infractions. suck it.]

7/25/2012 8:53:12 PM

I can't find the video, but Brent Musburger made the exact same argument I've been making on PTI today

7/25/2012 10:52:30 PM

sadly i agree with burro .....

they weren't protecting the football program. There's dozens of defensive available at any given time, and I'm sure plenty of high profile DC's would want to come to Penn State given it's reputation at the time for being a defensive powerhouse and linebacker U.

The "program" would have been fucking fine without sandusky. Being caught in a lie was JoePa, et. all 's problem. Not wins.

and another thing... what possibly would ahve happened to the "football program" if JoePa initially said from the get go that Sandusky was a terrible human and needed to go to jail? No one would have said "Penn State is evil," they'd have said "that guy si a fucking wack job sicko, and I hope they find a very small hole to store him in for eternity"

7/26/2012 12:13:27 AM

Doss2k, why do you think it's ok for the NCAA to take joepa's wins but the rest is out of line?

7/26/2012 12:20:46 AM

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/stewart_mandel/07/23/penn-state-ncaa-sanctions/index.html

Quote :

" Justice has been served, assuming your idea of justice for rape victims is to deprive a school of its next four Outback Bowl invitations. "

Quote :

" And have you read about the ongoing academic fraud scandal at North Carolina? Since at least 1999, athletes have repeatedly been steered toward a specific professor's African and Afro-American Studies course that no one actually taught or attended. Last year's NCAA investigation only scratched the surface. Considering how highly the NCAA portends to value academics, shouldn't Emmert step in here, too? "

similar take

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/michael_rosenberg/07/23/penn-state-ncaa-sanctions-mark-emmert/index.html

7/26/2012 3:30:25 AM

And have you read about the ongoing academic fraud scandal at North Carolina? Since at least 1999, athletes have repeatedly been steered toward a specific professor's African and Afro-American Studies course that no one actually taught or attended. Last year's NCAA investigation only scratched the surface. Considering how highly the NCAA portends to value academics, shouldn't Emmert step in here, too?



Preach on brotha, preach on.

7/26/2012 7:30:36 AM

Quote :

"they weren't protecting the football program."

i think it's silly to believe that the highest figures in the athletic department and the univsersity systematically hid the fact that sandusky was a serial pedofile for oer a decade (they had to know), and was even raping kids in the university shower, because they were buddies with him. it was to protect the football program, plain and simple.

7/26/2012 9:20:04 AM

Explain again how exactly exposing a serial rapist and putting him in jail would have reflected poorly on anyone??

7/26/2012 10:32:40 AM