If the grand jury does not return an indictment.







[Edited on March 23, 2012 at 11:19 AM. Reason : .]

3/23/2012 11:19:45 AM

[Edited on March 23, 2012 at 11:24 AM. Reason : asfasd]

3/23/2012 11:23:57 AM

Somebody embed "april 1992" by sublime on this page.

3/23/2012 11:25:00 AM

Does this look like a white guy to you?

3/23/2012 11:27:33 AM

Not with that hoodie on, no.

3/23/2012 11:32:16 AM

Eh, his dad is white. His mother is peruvian.

He looks like he could be latino, italian, hispanic, or french.



Point is....no matter his race, ethnicity, or cultural identification, he is still capable of racial profiling. The fact that he might identify himself as a minority certainly doesn't discount any racial bias on his part, or on the part of the police department.

[Edited on March 23, 2012 at 11:38 AM. Reason : L]

3/23/2012 11:35:03 AM

Oh, he's not white? Then fry the murderer

3/23/2012 11:38:10 AM

If any thing, there is going to be a Graham v. Connor like decision for self defense

3/23/2012 11:42:25 AM

Here is what I think really happened.

Zimmerman was chasing Trayvon on foot, Trayvon stopped and confronted him and started to fuck up up Zimmerman with his fists. Fight or flight response, florida is not mayberry...Trayvon felt legitimately threatened by a guy he does not know chasing him. His adrenaline was rushing from being followed and chased, and accosted for walking down the street.

Zimmerman being the pussy that he is pulls the handgun and shoots Trayvon. The cries for help are Trayvon dying. Zimmerman probably has some bruises from landing a few punches, which is how the cops are justifying not charging him.

The only problem is Zimmerman is the aggressor, he was going around looking for this fight and does not have any right to use deadly force.

The way police are interpreting the law in this case could be used to justify shooting anyone dead you got in to a bar fight with or any other type of fist fight. No one wants to live in a world where if someone walks up to you on the street, starts shit, and you punch them they can legally shoot you.

[Edited on March 23, 2012 at 11:45 AM. Reason : .]

3/23/2012 11:44:49 AM

Quote :

"Here's the kicker: plenty of us keep abreast of these sorts of situations and are pissed each time we're presented with it. We spread the information. When THAT happens, the cop-crusaders come out of the woodwork, and since the racial aspect isn't emphasized there, it becomes about hippie cop-haters or whatever."

Proof?

Quote :

"The real kicker is how damned determined you are to celebrate the execution of a black child"

What? When did I do this?

Quote :

" Oh wow some nobody said a thing. This is surely equivalent and equally worth of rage as a demonstrably, systematically racist police force and justice system."

So if some unknown goes out there and says they think the best thing for this country is to just exterminate all brown people you don't think there won't be a big reaction? Ok, how about this, when the OJ verdict was read black people cheered, there was no outcry of injustice. I'm saying that if you're concerned with justice YOU DON'T GET TO CHERRY PICK THE CASES, you're either interested in justice being done or you're not.

Quote :

" Are you even listening to yourself? Just drop the act, paint your face, and declare your real intentions you moral coward. "

You first.

3/23/2012 11:52:15 AM

Quote :

"I'm saying that if you're concerned with justice YOU DON'T GET TO CHERRY PICK THE CASES, you're either interested in justice being done or you're not. "

100% spot on. thread ender!

3/23/2012 12:43:52 PM

no, no it's not - it's a bullshit argument that forces you to either express outrage over every single goddamn murder in this country or demands you not care about this one. i don't know what's more pathetic - making that point or thinking the point made is actually a good one.

3/23/2012 1:12:57 PM

Quote :

"Ok, how about this, when the OJ verdict was read black people cheered, there was no outcry of injustice."

Great, let's compare this to a sensationalized case.

Do you even understand the reason why many Black people cheered for that verdict?

3/23/2012 1:17:45 PM

Quote :

"No one wants to live in a world where if someone walks up to you on the street, starts shit, and you punch them they can legally shoot you."

I'd love to know which part of me kicking your ass that you feel it is indeed acceptable to use deadly force. Is it right before you become unconscious? Or how about when you see me stomping on your head, shortly before your skull is crushed in? Where is the line to feeling like your life is in danger? Do you feel that people can only kill other people with weapons, and not with fists and feet? Do you need to first see a weapon on your attacker before feeling like you could die? Does it need to be a gun rather than a knife, since most stabbings are survivable? Does it need to be a .45 ACP rather than a 9mm, since statistically you'll survive a single shot from a 9mm?

3/23/2012 1:22:55 PM

^^^hold up, I didn't say at all that I agree with the rest of LaserSoup's opinions. The way I interpreted the quoted sentence is that we as a society have a justice system with laws and regulations, we cannot prosecute a person without evidence, that is how society structured it so we have to be objective, not uncaring, objective. This case is difficult for me because while I have my bias against Zimmerman, I do NOT know what happened, so we have to trust the courts, and use the laws that are already in place and apply to the case.


ex: Casey Anthony media meltdown. Yea I think the bitch did it too, but there was no evidence to convict her. The investigators, the people that received calls from a utility worker repeatedly, the failure of evidence collection, and after the case was settled there was a law to make it a criminal offense to not report your child missing.... THAT is what people can change, THAT is what people not in this case should care about.

There are no words to describe the fucked up nature of what happened, but it happened because of a fucking gun-wielding psycho who thinks he is the fucking street police. The issue here is that IF somehow that 'stand your ground' law helps Zimmerman (which is a corrupt interpretation of that law imo) then that law needs to be either better defined or thrown out so that shit like this won't be an issue again. The rest of this is for the community to flesh out (like why are there armed 'vigilantes' roaming around), how did this guy develop into the nut job he is today, and how can we ensure the environment around us is not conducive to unsolicited attacks on other races.

[Edited on March 23, 2012 at 1:27 PM. Reason : ^^^ to goalie]

[Edited on March 23, 2012 at 1:29 PM. Reason : .]

3/23/2012 1:26:46 PM

^^If I have a loaded weapon and 100 lbs. on a young kid, and he is unarmed, there's almost nothing he could do to threaten my life.

[Edited on March 23, 2012 at 1:27 PM. Reason : ]

3/23/2012 1:27:09 PM

Quote :

"^^If I have a loaded weapon and 100 lbs. on a young kid, and he is unarmed, there's almost nothing he could do to threaten my life."

Do you first ask for his date of birth to identify his age, then ask him to get on a scale before making the decision to defend your life? As we all know, children of a young age of 17 are incapable of killing

[Edited on March 23, 2012 at 1:29 PM. Reason : date]

3/23/2012 1:28:56 PM

Quote :

"^^If I have a loaded weapon and 100 lbs. on a young kid, and he is unarmed, there's almost nothing he could do to threaten my life."

Having a loaded firearm does not mean that no one is a threat to you. And if you think a younger, lighter person can't kill or inflict serious injury on an older, heavier person, than you are delusional.

3/23/2012 1:30:20 PM

Quote :

"No one wants to live in a world where if someone walks up to you on the street, starts shit, and you punch them they can legally shoot you."

We don't live in this world, despite what your liberal fantasies tell you.

3/23/2012 1:31:00 PM

Dude. Look at the fucking pictures. Don't be an idiot. It's obviously easy to tell when someone weighs a lot less than you.

And the likelihood of someone carrying a loaded gun is rather rare, so I would assume that if I had a loaded gun that the guy walking around wouldn't have one.

In any event, since I was the one spotting him, I could easily draw and point it at him.

---------------


Check out this recreated account:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=enGWcdUYr5c

It's hilarious and sad to see how Zimmerman's account goes from "I was following him" to "AND THEN SUDDENLY HE GOT THE DROP ON ME (somehow!!)"

3/23/2012 1:31:50 PM

Quote :

"Having a loaded firearm does not mean that no one is a threat to you. And if you think a younger, lighter person can't kill or inflict serious injury on an older, heavier person, than you are delusional."

And you're a giant pussy who is scared of people, apparently. I'm not threatened by kids who are half my size.

3/23/2012 1:32:31 PM

Quote :

"And the likelihood of someone carrying a loaded gun is rather rare, so I would assume that if I had a loaded gun that the guy walking around wouldn't have one."

I love that you keep calling it a 'loaded gun'. Do you often run into people carrying unloaded guns? Does it sound more menacing when you call it 'loaded' to further benefit your cause?

3/23/2012 1:33:41 PM

I'm not either, until they do something threatening.

^haha, bingo!

[Edited on March 23, 2012 at 1:34 PM. Reason : .]

3/23/2012 1:34:04 PM

Quote :

"Do you even understand the reason why many Black people cheered for that verdict?"

Please, explain it to me.

3/23/2012 1:34:35 PM

Quote :

"I'm not either, until they do something threatening."

Like walking around in a hoodie while being Black?

3/23/2012 1:36:34 PM

Quote :

"Ok, how about this, when the OJ verdict was read black people cheered, there was no outcry of injustice."

We had it on the television at my school, and what I remember most is that when the verdict was read, a black guy in my grade shook his head in disgust and exclaimed, "Maaan, nigga got away with murder!"

[Edited on March 23, 2012 at 1:37 PM. Reason : he was not waiting for his OJ Prize.]

3/23/2012 1:36:40 PM

Quote :

"I love that you keep calling it a 'loaded gun'. Do you often run into people carrying unloaded guns? Does it sound more menacing when you call it 'loaded' to further benefit your cause?"

yea if you get pulled by a cop, and they do a search... you better believe if they find a gun the first thing they will note is if it is loaded. This is not arbitrarily used, this is the facts of the case. An unloaded gun can be played off as something for intimidation, a loaded gun (as far as the courts are concerned) implies intent to shoot it.

3/23/2012 1:36:54 PM

I keep forgetting that there are a plethora of MMA fighters walking down streets all across America, killing people with fists of fury

[Edited on March 23, 2012 at 1:37 PM. Reason : oh noes, I got my ass kicked. time to pull out my gun]

3/23/2012 1:37:05 PM

There are no words to describe the fucked up nature of what happened, but it happened because of a fucking gun-wielding psycho who thinks he is the fucking street police. The issue here is that IF somehow that 'stand your ground' law helps Zimmerman (which is a corrupt interpretation of that law imo) then that law needs to be either better defined or thrown out so that shit like this won't be an issue again. The rest of this is for the community to flesh out (like why are there armed 'vigilantes' roaming around), how did this guy develop into the nut job he is today, and how can we ensure the environment around us is not conducive to unsolicited attacks on other races.

3/23/2012 1:37:50 PM

^^^wrong

Quote :

"Like walking around in a hoodie while being Black?"

No, you racist prick.

[Edited on March 23, 2012 at 1:38 PM. Reason : .]

3/23/2012 1:38:20 PM

As I said before, I don't think this shooting was necessarily race motivated. But as a side note, many Hispanics do consider themselves to be white. There is a reason that on things when it asks for your race it sometimes says "White, non-Hispanic".

3/23/2012 1:38:51 PM

Quote :

"Please, explain it to me."

But I guess it's just all their fault for not trying hard enough... or something... or whatever excuse you want to come up with.

Also, in before 'White guilt.'

3/23/2012 1:43:28 PM

Quote :

"No, you racist prick."

hahah, here we go again with the "LIEBERALS ARE THE REAL RACISTS!!!1" argument.

3/23/2012 1:44:10 PM

You're the one identifying race in categorizing suspicious and/or threatening people. Sounds racist to me.

3/23/2012 1:45:22 PM

I'm identifying that racial biases exist within our society instead of pretending to ignore it.

3/23/2012 1:46:38 PM

once you start applying these statistics (which can be skewed by racially motivated arrests ) to faces you have never even met, heard of, or even asked him name, then you are being racist.

how about the graph showing wrongfully convicted people that were released after organizations fought to have their cases reopened? yea it is highly skewed to black people. Sorry, racist shit HAS happened in this country. are you a racist? I don't know, I am not calling you that.

Zimmerman had no right to assume his ethnicity indicated any threat whatsoever. did the graphs say 100% of all black people are in jail? no. Zimmerman had no indication of where the Martin kid was even going. was Martin covered in blood?

HOW WAS HE A THREAT?

if that weak ass excuse is all Zimmerman has, this shit ain't white guilt, it is FUCKED UP, the end.

[Edited on March 23, 2012 at 1:50 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on March 23, 2012 at 1:51 PM. Reason : .]

3/23/2012 1:49:05 PM

Quote :

"(which can be skewed by racially motivated arrests )"

Um... yes. That was my point.

Cops arrest more Black people for crimes. Therefore cops (and the public) either consciously or unconsciously believe that Blacks commit more crimes.

So when they see a "thug" they assume that person is a criminal, even if they aren't.

It's a vicious cycle. And yes, it is racism. If you get shifty when you see a Black man that isn't dressed in a three-piece suit, you're a racist. Sorry to break it to you.

3/23/2012 1:51:27 PM

oh.... sorry god, I misinterpreted your post, but my sentiments stand

3/23/2012 1:52:59 PM

Quote :

"I'd love to know which part of me kicking your ass that you feel it is indeed acceptable to use deadly force. Is it right before you become unconscious? Or how about when you see me stomping on your head, shortly before your skull is crushed in? Where is the line to feeling like your life is in danger? Do you feel that people can only kill other people with weapons, and not with fists and feet? Do you need to first see a weapon on your attacker before feeling like you could die? Does it need to be a gun rather than a knife, since most stabbings are survivable? Does it need to be a .45 ACP rather than a 9mm, since statistically you'll survive a single shot from a 9mm?"

Do you think a person should be able to pick a fight with someone minding their own business, and then kill that person when resistance is met?

3/23/2012 1:54:15 PM

Here's how great this law is:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/03/22/149153379/stand-your-ground-miami-judge-decides-fatal-stabbing-was-self-defense

A guy steals a car radio and runs away with it. The owner chases after the guy for a block and then stabs him to death.

And the owner gets the charges dismissed.

3/23/2012 2:01:08 PM

^
That anecdote won't help, considering many people on TWW think you should be able defend your property with lethal force, even when you aren't in danger personally.

3/23/2012 2:02:37 PM

3/23/2012 2:02:46 PM

Quote :

"Do you think a person should be able to pick a fight with someone minding their own business, and then kill that person when resistance is met?"

Just for a split second, lets ignore how the fight was started - since that is still 100% unknown at this time - and fast forward to the actual fight in my scenario. If you started a fight and knew you were going to die, would you not pull your weapon, or would you die knowing you deserved it since you started it?

3/23/2012 2:03:35 PM

you think Zimmerman thought he was going to die from a fight with Treyvon?

serious question

like oh shit I started this fight and didn't know this kid can fight back so let me shoot him to stop it?

[Edited on March 23, 2012 at 2:05 PM. Reason : my mind is blown]

3/23/2012 2:05:02 PM

ignoring a critical split second just to defend your argument is a shitty way to defend your position.

3/23/2012 2:05:12 PM

Quote :

"If you started a fight and knew you were going to die, would you not pull your weapon, or would you die knowing you deserved it since you started it?"

I would pull my weapon if I thought my life was in danger. And I would deserve to be arrested and charged with a crime. The question in this case is whether it should be manslaughter or murder.

3/23/2012 2:05:17 PM

"Just for a split-second, let's ignore the most important part of this story. Now doesn't this narrative I just changed now fit my argument?

3/23/2012 2:05:30 PM

if you ignore the split second that it took to pull the trigger, Zimmerman didn't kill Trayvon! The bullet did!

3/23/2012 2:06:11 PM

There's also the fact that most people, unless they're insane, will react to seeing a gun pulled on them. If I am punching someone and he pulls a gun on me, I'm going to probably put my hands up and back off.

But I guess Trayvon must have been on PCP or something, right? I mean he had to be! Because that fits my just-world narrative where people do no wrong.

3/23/2012 2:06:46 PM

I can't read this thread anymore, I am out.

3/23/2012 2:07:12 PM