*drops mic*

[Edited on December 19, 2015 at 7:46 AM. Reason : 21 pages of white privilege goodness.]

12/19/2015 7:45:35 AM

At least JCE sort of agreed that "rich privilege" exists. But this is probably only bc he not rich.

12/19/2015 8:08:51 AM

Quote :

""Three separate research teams found that the characteristics of the crime – not the racial characteristics of either the defendant or the victim – could be used to make very accurate predictions of whether federal prosecutors would seek the death penalty.""

*drops mic*

12/19/2015 11:48:10 AM

oh cool. The death penalty.

That effects 10's of people

Racism solved!

12/19/2015 3:28:49 PM

That is the example he brought up.

It is a good example regardless, and the logic here applies to the vast majority of statistics used by liberals to falsely claim something is racist.

Correlation =/= causation. If something disproportionately hurts one race, yes it should be investigated, but when key factors and variables are conveniently left out to further a narrative... that is just deceptive/ignorant/shitty.

12/20/2015 1:27:23 AM

So you choose to ignore the other studies but this study on the death penelty is now as good as gospel to you?

12/20/2015 8:53:06 AM

Yep. Because it doesn't fit his narrative.

12/20/2015 11:05:10 AM

Quote :

"So you choose to ignore the other studies"

The only things being being "ignored" are the other factors. The studies you reference don't prove "racism", they just prove black people are executed at a higher rate and imply that is because of racism.

I'm suggesting all relevant factors are considered, if you disagree with that you are the one ignoring reality.

[Edited on December 20, 2015 at 5:04 PM. Reason : .]

12/20/2015 5:04:28 PM

I honestly could care less about the death penalty studies.

I disagree with the concept regardless of whose being executed.

12/20/2015 5:48:29 PM

I don't care about it either, now that it has been proven to not be racist.

12/20/2015 10:35:03 PM

Quote :

"I don't care about it either, now that it has been proven to not be racist."

So you would care if it was racist, but don't since you think it's not?

[Edited on December 20, 2015 at 11:20 PM. Reason : What racist things do u care about?]

12/20/2015 11:08:56 PM

Nah I was just pointing:

"This is racist"
"No it isn't, here is proof"
"I never cared about it anyway"

Also, as long as "caring" is defined by meaningless social media profile picture filters and #IStandWith hashtags, then I totally care the most! As long as I don't actually have to do anything or form an opinion on anything, I just want everyone to see I care!

12/21/2015 10:03:13 AM

12/21/2015 10:23:41 AM

Ok the study looks a specific part of the death penalty process. Federal prosecutors seeking the death penalty. It does not take in effect jury selection and how they function or why the person was arrested and charged in the first place. So realty it's a fucking pointless study.

So if we how found that federal prosecutors are not abunch of racists that's great! Those guys are cool with me!

[Edited on December 21, 2015 at 11:00 AM. Reason : Thanks for bringing this up tho bro ]

12/21/2015 10:58:15 AM

^ yeah that report doesn't say what JCE is claiming it says, not surprising though.

12/21/2015 11:19:57 AM

the summary points out even more problems with how he is trying to use it

12/21/2015 11:38:20 AM

^, ^^

What, specifically???

Quote :

"Ok the study looks a specific part of the death penalty process. "

God forbid we discuss “specifics” when claiming something often referenced vaguely like racism or “oppression”.

Quote :

"It does not take in effect jury selection and how they function or why the person was arrested and charged in the first place. "

Probably because those are all separate processes that would need to be studied separately…

Quote :

"So realty it's a fucking pointless study."

How so? It looks directly at thegoodlif3’s claim that “if you murder a white person you will be more likely to be executed because society is racist” and refutes it by taking it a step further and looking at the important factors.


[Edited on December 21, 2015 at 3:11 PM. Reason : .]

12/21/2015 3:11:39 PM

to be specific, the first specific points are the ones that were specifically made on this specific page of this specific thread

12/21/2015 3:13:07 PM

Quote :

"the summary points out even more problems with how he is trying to use it"

What problems?

12/21/2015 3:30:22 PM

in particular the ones that it points out

12/21/2015 3:31:26 PM

That's the inconvenient thing about trying to defend a false-narrative. You can never actually reference specifics/facts/reality, just have to be vague and rely on emotional responses.

12/21/2015 4:00:00 PM

then specifically what about the specific points made on this specific page?

12/21/2015 4:12:12 PM

You can't post a single report and claim it undermines what the field of criminology has been saying for at least 2 decades now, then demand other people tell you why the field of criminology is not wrong.

There's probably at least a few hundred, if not more, publications you could read to see how racism and the death penalty are connected-- this is the accepted viewpoint of most people who study this issue.

12/21/2015 4:40:22 PM

You do understand the death penelry involves steps outside of the federal prosecutor seeking the death penalty?

Or are you retarded?

12/21/2015 4:40:52 PM

^^Plenty of studies show race X experiences Y at a higher rate, the question, in the context of this thread, is does that prove racism?

The context of this discussion is in response to thegoodlife3 (who, to his credit, actually tried to make a point and reference something specific *gasp*). The context was charging/sentencing/imposition of the death penalty. That is why I referenced a study that dealt with that scope. If you want to make the vague claim that there is racism in some other part of the justice system, which I am sure there is somewhere, then put on your big boy pants and cite something specific... (or just make lazy vague references to "the facts" that are somewhere or the "research" that proves the HuffingtonPost isn't stupid.)

12/21/2015 4:55:21 PM

Can someone summarize a list of white privileges?

12/21/2015 5:06:54 PM

Quote :

"Can someone summarize a list of white privileges?"

Being able to do this after killing 4 people...

http://www.wral.com/the-latest-mother-of-affluenza-teen-listed-as-missing/15189945/

Taking a picture with a camera that doesn't recognize you to be human...and everything in between those two examples.

12/21/2015 5:39:13 PM

Quote :

"The context was charging/sentencing/imposition of the death penalty. That is why I referenced a study that dealt with that scope."

It deals with a subset of that scope, using possibly specious analysis (p-hacking).

12/21/2015 6:22:59 PM

Quote :

" Can someone summarize a list of white privileges?"

- better healthcare received from doctors
- less likely to be harshly disciplined in school
- less likely to be targeted by police for routine stops
- more likely to get interviewed for a job
- more likely to be called back by a professor for a graduate school application
- less likely to be given a harsher sentence for a crime
- less likely to be sentenced to death for a crime
- no association/accountability with/for an extremist group due to a member of that group committing a gruesome crime
- more likely to be given favorable terms for a car loan
- more likely to be shown better properties when looking for a house
- more likely to have parents and grand parents that benefitted from government grants specifically for white people
- less likely to have a billionaire TV personality's baseless attacks on your birthplace with racial undertones gain traction with a large number of people, get disproven, then go on to be a leading candidate for president

12/21/2015 6:33:34 PM

December 21, 2015

8:13 PM EST

JCE2011 still hasn't replied to the specific issues with why the study he posted doesn't say what he wants it to say

12/21/2015 8:13:42 PM

^^
And as we have already seen for the specific case of capital punishment, as soon as all relevant factors are considered (severity of crime mainly) the racial disparity can be explained. Correlation does not = causation.

This logic applies to many of the items on your list. If you cite any references with statistical evidence for your list, I am sure many of them exclude key variables/factors and simply conclude black = victim. For many of your examples wealth can be the key factor rather than race.

For the examples of the "not-John-Smith-resume" getting less callbacks, I agree that shows evidence of subconscious bias, which I think would apply to all majorities vs minorities globally, unfortunately.

12/21/2015 8:56:01 PM

Ha ha

12/21/2015 9:00:16 PM

^^
I will summarize your post:
"I will reject reality and substitute my own"

12/21/2015 10:17:41 PM

Blacks (in general...I have to specify this for you because you're a dumb twat JCE) don't have wealth today because racism. They didn't even have the right to vote till the 60's, much less an inheritance or an education or even equal paying salaries (or jobs due to the aforementioned). You think that mentality towards them just vanished??? You people had them enslaved for a few hundred years and in 50 years that shit just goes away? So, there's your race + money correlation. Poverty, crime, race, they are all related because of white dominance and legislation meant to stall their progression throughout history. You're just too stupid to understand that whites didn't have generations of setbacks because of the color of their skin (bad choices were their only setback). White privilege is being able to say your grandparents had a voice in having their government represent them for your parents to have a decent future. Fuck your specifics and statistics, read a history book.

12/21/2015 11:03:04 PM

^^
I will summarize your post:
"If something happens to blacks more often, it is factually racist in my mind no matter what"

Quote :

"don't have wealth today because racism"

Historic racism causing a lingering wealth disparity that leads to wealth-based discrimination in 2015 is a problem, but it is not racism. (I have to explain the difference to dumb twats)

I doubt anyone denies white privilege in 1950, but for the context of this thread we have been discussing present-day reality. Yes, white privilege existed in the past, but that doesn't mean you are not accountable for your own choices and actions, as liberalism would imply to further the victim narrative.

If you are permanently poor in the United States, it isn't because of your race, it is because you suck with money, and suck at making life choices. It's a lot easier to point at someone making better choices and claim something isn't fair though, so I guess we should all vote for Bernie Sanders?

[Edited on December 22, 2015 at 9:47 AM. Reason : .]

12/22/2015 9:38:57 AM

Quote :

" - better healthcare received from doctors - less likely to be harshly disciplined in school - less likely to be targeted by police for routine stops - more likely to get interviewed for a job - more likely to be called back by a professor for a graduate school application - less likely to be given a harsher sentence for a crime - less likely to be sentenced to death for a crime - no association/accountability with/for an extremist group due to a member of that group committing a gruesome crime - more likely to be given favorable terms for a car loan - more likely to be shown better properties when looking for a house - more likely to have parents and grand parents that benefitted from government grants specifically for white people"

Perhaps I am lucky, but I'm black and based on this list I would say that I don't feel as though I have personally been refused or selected more or less than anyone else, but I can see how this is the most immediate conclusion that one could draw from first looking at statistics. In general the outcome of your life has almost entirely to do with self will and not any predetermined cultural patterns, so what's the point of bickering about a giant system that no individual can change.

12/22/2015 9:59:18 AM

If you are black then your personal choices and decisions don't matter, you are a permanent victim being oppressed and should vote democrat. Don't you read the HuffingtonPost???

12/22/2015 10:06:51 AM

I'm just saying, living with a mindset that that your life is better than someone else is exactly the same as saying that another person is inferior to you. In the same way, thinking that you have been given a disadvantage or that the white man is out to get you is exactly the same as living in a world where you are a slave. Fuck that, i just lih

12/22/2015 10:15:35 AM

I think there is a lot of blame to go around in this whole situation really. Sure, no one is gonna say there aren't quite a few things going against minorities in this country. There is definitely a wealth disparity that definitely gives some disadvantages to many, whites included. While it isnt necessarily as easy for a lot of people to overcome these problems in life, in the end a lot of life is what you make of it. There are so many unique and differing circumstances that trying to lump any of this stuff into one thing or another is almost impossible.

I think the most important way to solve a lot of this stuff is through parenting and education. I feel like as each generation passes the amount of racism in this country is slowly dying out as more children are being raised in households where they aren't exposed to racism and the world around us grows more diverse. Kids don't grow up to all of a sudden become racist it has to do with what they are taught values wise growing up. There is no doubt that education is much harder to come by in poorer areas but this is not limited to just minorities. Kids from these areas have to try and work harder, and while that sucks, it shouldn't be an excuse. It's a parents job to stay on top of their children and make sure they are making the most out of what they have. This seems like the best way, to me at least, to break the cycle of low wealth, low education, families and communities that just continue to cycle. Again every situation is different and there will never be an answer that solves everyones problems but I think that is the place to start. Take care of yourself and dont let your situation control you.

12/22/2015 10:16:33 AM

^4 same here. personal responsibility is most certainly the thing that determines your successes or failures in life.

[Edited on December 22, 2015 at 10:19 AM. Reason : ]

12/22/2015 10:19:29 AM

I've found that very few people take responsibility when they are dealt a shit hand but take all of the responsibility when dealt a great hand.

This spans everyone.

12/22/2015 11:50:54 AM

December 22, 2015

12:02 PM

JCE2011 still pretending like no one responded to the study he posted

12/22/2015 12:02:29 PM

Quote :

" In general the outcome of your life has almost entirely to do with self will and not any predetermined cultural patterns, so what's the point of bickering about a giant system that no individual can change."

In specific, the outcome of your life is up to your own will.

In general, the outcome of your life is almost entirely cultural patterns. You don't have the equivalent chance or ability to become a Muslim farmer in a grassland as someone in Afghanistan, and someone in Afghanistan doesn't have the same chance of becoming an embedded systems engineer as you do.

Quote :

"I'm just saying, living with a mindset that that your life is better than someone else is exactly the same as saying that another person is inferior to you. In the same way, thinking that you have been given a disadvantage or that the white man is out to get you is exactly the same as living in a world where you are a slave. Fuck that, i just lih"

This is exactly how you and everyone else should live.

The point of identifying systemic biases isn't to make an individual feel personally offended or subjugated (although I understand why people interpret political issues this way), it's to actually change the "giant system" that we're all a part of, that an individual can change, that we as humans organized into society in the first place for the specific purpose of trying to change.

Society doesn't just trundle along aimlessly, it moves in the direction we want it to move. If you were a lone nomad, the system you were in was determined by you and your family. If you travelled with a big group, your perhaps controlled your system democratically. As these groups get bigger, we outsource these societal decisions to people we call politicians because it's too burdensome for each person to live their life, but also worry about society... etc...

12/22/2015 12:04:57 PM

Quote :

"The point of identifying systemic biases isn't to make an individual feel personally offended or subjugated (although I understand why people interpret political issues this way), it's to actually change the "giant system" that we're all a part of"

The problem is the year is 2015 and social justice warriors have run out of things to "fix" so now we are chasing vague scape goats that don't exist anymore, using clickbait headlines to spread outrage and elicit emotional responses to rare non-representative incidents rather than referencing statistics and reality (you know, the things that show that America is a pretty awesome place for everyone regardless of race).

12/22/2015 1:08:13 PM

Quote :

" referencing statistics and reality "

You have no familiarity with either of these.

12/22/2015 2:06:49 PM

Quote :

"If you are permanently poor in the United States, it isn't because of your race, it is because you suck with money, and suck at making life choices. It's a lot easier to point at someone making better choices and claim something isn't fair though, so I guess we should all vote for Bernie Sanders? "

&

Quote :

" In general the outcome of your life has almost entirely to do with self will and not any predetermined cultural patterns, so what's the point of bickering about a giant system that no individual can change."

[/thread]

Quote :

"Kids don't grow up to all of a sudden become racist it has to do with what they are taught values wise growing up."

I don't really agree with this. I think a lot of racism and cultural biases are learned through observance and experience (even if myopic). One can come from a tolerant family living in the country in rural mostly white Missourri you may not acquire any racial bias from your parents. Let say it is your formative years and you notice that there is always some African-American being shown involved in some gang-related violence in St. Louis 100 miles away as seen on the news, see the news plastered about the Ferguson riots/looting, and/or perhaps you got mugged by an African-American after leaving a cardinal game a few years back.
If these are your only experiences with African Americans it is easy to see how one may think all black people as violent criminals and pick up racist tendencies.

This was a big issue I had with #BLM. With a lot of their belligerent posturing and only black lives matter attitudes I think they are fueling a lot more racist
tendencies versus opening the doors for more equality.

Quote :

" is no doubt that education is much harder to come by in poorer areas"

Are you shitting me? If you are an underprivileged minority that excels in high school it is almost a slam dunk to get a large chunk if not all your college paid for.

12/22/2015 2:13:41 PM

Quote :

"The problem is the year is 2015 and social justice warriors have run out of things to "fix" so now we are chasing vague scape goats that don't exist anymore, using clickbait headlines to spread outrage and elicit emotional responses to rare non-representative incidents rather than referencing statistics and reality (you know, the things that show that America is a pretty awesome place for everyone regardless of race). "

so whats your excuse then for dismissing the real, non-hashtag problems? just angry about things?

also, it's December 22, 2015 at 2:25 PM and JCE2011 has not acknowledged that anyone made a real reply to the study he posted

[Edited on December 22, 2015 at 2:25 PM. Reason : ?]

12/22/2015 2:25:38 PM

Quote :

"Are you shitting me? If you are an underprivileged minority that excels in high school it is almost a slam dunk to get a large chunk if not all your college paid for."

#assumptions

12/22/2015 2:39:50 PM

[Edited on December 22, 2015 at 3:28 PM. Reason : wrong thread]

12/22/2015 3:11:08 PM

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/minneapolis-st-paul-transit-race_56786ca5e4b0b958f65794ba?utm_hp_ref=black-voices&ir=Black+Voices§ion=black-voices&ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000047

In Minneapolis, white rule violators get warnings, blacks more likely to get ticketed.

12/23/2015 10:26:33 AM