I don't think Pence is running the show. He struggled to explain Trumps statements during the campaign, Trump openly disagreed with him in a debate...

I'm thinking it's Bannon that's running the show. He's Trump's Dick Cheney.

Trump is dumb, he must know he's dumb inside, he knows he doesn't have the requisite skill or knowledge to talk policy with senators or literally anyone-- that average TSBer knows more policy that Trump i bet-- if his choices of cabinet nominees says anything, it's that Bannon is the one pulling the strings to help embolden the alt-right.

1/12/2017 11:38:18 AM

Quote :

"Every time I hear Trump mention "8 years" I laugh. Seriously, we are in survive 4 years mode and hit the reset button. Has it ever happened where a party didn't send out the incumbent after 4 years to run again? If not I would not be surprised if it happened this time. Otherwise, whoever the democrats send out will be president. "

People keep saying this but Nixon won reelection in a historic landslide while facing impeachment after being accused of doing all kinds of unethical and corrupt shit because the Dems decided to run an extreme left populist. It could easily happen again.

1/12/2017 11:38:44 AM

^^ Bannon and Kushner. Fairly obvious they've been running the show since Manafort left.

1/12/2017 12:01:27 PM

Quote :

"Trump is dumb"

Didnt y'all learn anything from the election? Do not underestimate Trump. Laughing him off as dumb is just going to lose you more elections.

1/12/2017 12:06:35 PM

He's great at pushing his agenda, it's why he has been successful, but it's obvious that he is intellectually outmatched when it comes to domestic or world politics and this has been made very clear

1/12/2017 3:11:02 PM

So is his voting base, but that's why they love him.

1/12/2017 3:14:29 PM

Quote :

"Didnt y'all learn anything from the election? Do not underestimate Trump. Laughing him off as dumb is just going to lose you more elections."

He is definitely dumb, there is no denying that.

But that's exactly why he is so powerful and loved, and that's something his opponents need to pick up.

1/12/2017 3:18:44 PM

Quote :

"Ex-spy reportedly behind Trump claims disappears from view AGENCE FRANCE PRESSE | Published — Thursday 12 January 2017 LONDON: The former British spy reported to be behind a dossier of unsubstantiated allegations against US President-elect Donald Trump was nowhere to be seen on Thursday, even as sources lined up to support his credibility. Outside Christopher Steele’s red-brick home in a sleepy village outside London, neighbor Mike Hopper told AFP he had left on Wednesday and asked him to feed the family’s three cats while he was away. No car could be seen on the gravel yard in front of the home of Steele, reported by the Daily Telegraph and Wall Street Journal to be a former officer for Britain’s MI6 foreign intelligence service."

1/12/2017 3:56:30 PM

I love this thread.

You guys are well-educated, open-minded, thoughtful, temperate individuals.

1/12/2017 10:08:59 PM

Thank you. It's easy to fall for conspiracy theories on this day and age. People even bought in to crap like PizzaGate. Imagine that?

For the most part no one on here has really bought into the dossier nonsense (especially the ridiculousness of the golden shower stuff).

[Edited on January 13, 2017 at 9:18 AM. Reason : but, wait? didn't you buy in to a lot of those???]

1/13/2017 9:15:03 AM

^^lol, says the guy who often appears to be somewhat unhinged

1/13/2017 9:30:59 AM

I have no idea what you are talking about.

1/13/2017 6:49:13 PM

I haven't seen any reaction from the conservative media yet about john Lewis other than D'Souza tweeting his typical garbage.

It's def motivating democrats though, further cementing the idea that trump cannot be worked with.

1/15/2017 1:22:23 AM

1/15/2017 1:44:14 AM

Quote :

"I haven't seen any reaction from the conservative media yet about john Lewis"

im sure they will axe Newt and other trump supporters about it on the sunday morning shows today. those twitter attacks trump does are a bad look but that type of crap may be how he won so prob not going away unfortunately

1/15/2017 5:47:28 AM

John Lewis has done more to help his constituents and this country than Donald Trump has done and would do in twenty lifetimes. The fact that Trump is attacking him is beyond ridiculous but that is who Trump is. A petty, narcissistic man child.

(That said, I think Lewis is wrong to say Trump isn't legitimate)

1/15/2017 10:15:36 AM

Lewis, who was arrested dozens of times, who was literally beaten by police, for fighting for voting rights and equal rights for blacks isn't wrong to not accept as his president a guy who for years manufactured lies that the first black president was a secret Muslim Kenyan. This is actual racism, and America just (very narrowly, practically as a fluke from FBI interference) voted him president. a guy who shed blood decades ago to prevent this doesn't have to pretend this is all okay and normal.

[Edited on January 15, 2017 at 11:28 AM. Reason : ]

1/15/2017 11:28:10 AM

https://twitter.com/abcpolitics/status/820619926905954305

Trump, originally scheduled to visit the new African America museum tomorrow, bails.

President of all Americans right?

1/15/2017 12:29:50 PM

None of this shit is normal or even slightly okay.

In fact, I'd be willing to bet that a civil rights memorial will probably be vandalized tomorrow somewhere by the far right Trump supporters. Or they make a big display of the confederacy. Or something as equally outrageous.

When the president-elect enters the political sphere by questionining the legitimacy of the current president, fans the flames of racial intolerance, speaks in bigoted terms toward racial advocacy groups, and begins openly bashing civil rights leaders, then eventually one of his supporters will get the message and will begin targeting minority people and/or symbols.

This is a fucking nightmare in progress, and its ridiculous to analyze this in simple political terms.



[Edited on January 15, 2017 at 2:21 PM. Reason : ]

1/15/2017 2:06:21 PM

http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-gop-policy-ukraine-wikileaks-dnc-2017-1

This was in the dossier as well. I'm torn between throwing it out completely because of some of the more ridiculous and obviously untrue stuff and believing this type of thing because people close to Trump admitted connections with the hacker email "leaks" and the bizarre GOP platform shift came out of nowhere.

For now until something definitive is brought to light I'll give Trump the same benefit of the doubt I gave Clinton.

1/15/2017 3:58:01 PM

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-01-15/trump-calls-nato-obsolete-and-dismisses-eu-in-german-interview

Trump starting to push his gross ignorance on our foreign policy.

the broader GOP isn't going along with this is it?

1/15/2017 5:59:18 PM

I think it's safe to say that the angrier the hack SJW types get ITT, the better of a job Trump is doing. That's how low you and the media have set the bar.

1/15/2017 6:12:53 PM

If you think that a tit-for-tat arrangement is unbelievably crazy, keep in mind that changing the position on aid to Ukraine was one of the only platform changes Trump made

http://www.npr.org/2016/08/06/488876597/how-the-trump-campaign-weakened-the-republican-platform-on-aid-to-ukraine
How The Trump Campaign Weakened The Republican Platform On Aid To Ukraine

Quote :

"One of the questions raised over the course of this year's presidential race is about how a President Trump would deal with Russian president Vladimir Putin. One reason to wonder: the Republican Party platform's new language on policy towards Ukraine. When Republican Party leaders drafted the platform prior to their convention in Cleveland last month, they had relatively little input from the campaign of then-presumptive nominee Donald Trump on most issues — except when it came to a future Republican administration's stance on Ukraine. It started when platform committee member Diana Denman tried to insert language calling for the U.S. to provide lethal defensive weapons to the Ukrainian government, which is fighting a separatist insurrection backed by Russia. Denman says she had no idea she was "going into a fire fight," calling it "an interesting exchange, to say the least." Denman is a long time GOP activist from Texas. When she presented her proposal during a platform subcommittee meeting last month, "two gentleman," whom Denman said were part of the Trump campaign, came over, looked at the language, and asked that it be set aside for further review. She says after further discussion the pair "had to make some calls and clear it." She says they found the language was still too strong."

also remember that his campaign manager was on a pro-putin payroll, and that trump's position on Ukraine changed after hiring him
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/trump-manafort-ukraine-crimea-russia-226573

all of this sounds unbelievable, but the facts point to it not being that crazy (which is absolutely insane). you republican morons should feel even dumber than normal.

1/15/2017 6:17:02 PM

Quote :

"I think it's safe to say that the angrier the hack SJW types get ITT, the better of a job Trump is doing"

If being the triggered over nonsense was a bar then HRC must have been the best SoS ever and Obama will be on Rushmore by February.

Also, if you actually read instead of rant you'd see many with a skeptical eye towards some of his news (which if true would likely be one of the bigger scandals ever?).

1/15/2017 6:38:13 PM

Thanks for engaging him, dumbass

1/15/2017 7:43:16 PM

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2016/7/26/1552604/-Connect-the-following-7-dots-Do-you-see-a-pattern-Robert-Reich

From July.

So trump gives an interview saying he doesn't care about the economic health of European allies, says NATO is obsolete, saying we should be ready to trust Putin, meanwhile throughout his campaign has surrounded himself with people very close to Putins regime, and is personally indebted to Russian interests.

Even if Russia doesn't have blackmailing information, trump has been swimming in Russian propaganda and seems to be ready to supplant our relationship with the EU countries in favor of Russia.

1/15/2017 9:54:09 PM

were his comments on NATO in response to the US sending troops to Poland? because that is a dumb move and i'd love to see the US gtfo of that debacle.

1/15/2017 10:01:36 PM

Trump most likely doesn't even know about that, but the comment was in the context of NATO not fighting terrorism.

I don't think it's inherently problematic to say NATO is obsolete. It's in the context that Germany is the bad guy and we shouldn't care if European countries are hurt by trade policies that's problematic. For many reasons least of which is that we rely on a healthy global economy for our own economic success.

1/15/2017 10:06:45 PM

Plenty of Europeans have said that the EU is a vehicle for Germany for a while now, and it's true. Germany has benefited hugely from the relative weakness of the euro. Politically Merkel is more powerful than any other world leader outside of Obama, Xi, and Putin.

I've been for scrapping and replacing NATO since the fall of the USSR. There are plenty of good arguments for it. Rolling tanks and troops into Germany and Poland is stupid theater from a leader who has shown himself to be inept when dealing with Putin.

1/15/2017 10:35:15 PM

So if we have the choice between supporting a thriving democratic ally that has sent soldiers to fight with our own, or to support a long time adversary lead by an autocrat who invaded a neighboring country to seize territory, we should turn our back on the thriving democratic ally?

I guess "fine" if you believe this, but this is a fundamental 180 degree turn in what we claim our global mission is (reflect and promote democratic ideals).

How are people being convinced to follow along with this?

1/16/2017 12:36:47 AM

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/15/us/politics/trump-health-law-replacement.html

Trump pushing for single payer/public option?

1/16/2017 1:50:02 AM

In the article you linked it says "Mr. Trump said specifically on Saturday that “I don’t want single-payer.” "

1/16/2017 7:45:56 AM

His hot BMW take is hilarious. People want BMWs over Chevys because they are BMWs not because of some trade issue. It's the same way arrogant NY real estate tycoons want to live in gold plated midtown penthouses instead of Washington Heights tenements.

[Edited on January 16, 2017 at 8:10 AM. Reason : X]

1/16/2017 8:09:48 AM

^^^^what about option 3: mind our own damn business and avoid entangling alliances?

1/16/2017 11:05:33 AM

^ that's can't work when we have the biggest economy and by far the biggest military of any country. Unless you have a time machine there's no such thing anymore as "minding our own Damon business".

We need oil from Mideast, we need precious metals and ore from china and Africa, we need rockets from Russia, we need scientific instruments from Italy and France, then there's the whole issue of nuclear proliferation. All of these would require us becoming involved in global political issues even if we tried to completely recuse ourselves.

With the us being as geographically large as we are alone, we could never just be a fly on the wall nation. Now throw our economy, military, and history into this mix.

preemptive invasions like Iraq should never be part of our policies, but maintaining a stable world playing field for scientific and economic and social advancement is in our interests.

1/16/2017 4:51:01 PM

oh ok

i know it looks like we're piling up troops on the border to intimidate other nations, but it's really just stabilization...you know, for social advancement



[Edited on January 16, 2017 at 5:19 PM. Reason : cd]

the italians don't want to sell us any scientific instruments. better threaten them with violence.

[Edited on January 16, 2017 at 5:24 PM. Reason : df]

1/16/2017 5:14:28 PM

Quote :

"People want BMWs over Chevys because they are BMWs not because of some trade issue."

I get the point, but this is a horrible example. Everyone knows Range Rover > Tahoe >>> X5

1/16/2017 5:19:52 PM

Quote :

"We need oil from Mideast, we need precious metals and ore from china and Africa, we need rockets from Russia, we need scientific instruments from Italy and France, then there's the whole issue of nuclear proliferation. All of these would require us becoming involved in global political issues even if we tried to completely recuse ourselves."

You sound like an imperialist, fyi.

Or at the very least, you have a very tenuous understanding of how we acquire those things that "we need." It'd be one thing if we traded for those things without interfering with those countries sovereignty and respective democratic processes. But that's not what we do, and I'm certain that you are aware of that. We topple governments and install puppet leaders who rule with an iron fist for the profits of western corporations at the expense of those countries civilians, denying them their right to self determination.

So I'm having a hard time understanding what your position is?

1/16/2017 6:24:03 PM

This is good shit right here, the rest of the media need to take note and follow CNNs lead on standing up to Trump's people like this.

1/16/2017 7:38:11 PM

elect a republican president and all of a sudden CNN is all about asking tough questions

1/16/2017 7:39:35 PM

Quote :

"So if we have the choice between supporting a thriving democratic ally that has sent soldiers to fight with our own, or to support a long time adversary lead by an autocrat who invaded a neighboring country to seize territory, we should turn our back on the thriving democratic ally? I guess "fine" if you believe this, but this is a fundamental 180 degree turn in what we claim our global mission is (reflect and promote democratic ideals). How are people being convinced to follow along with this?"

Supporting the dissolution of NATO and allying ourselves with Russia are not one and the same. You do realize NATO is a military alliance whose sole purpose was to present a united Western European Front against the USSR and which precipitated the Warsaw Pact as a direct response to it. It was useful, and probably necessary at the time. Now, even without US intervention Russia would not win a ground war against a European coalition. If the countries of Europe want to form a mutual protection pact they should do so, there is no reason for us to be a part of it

What's more, NATO is largely dead as it is, the will to act collectively is dead as responses and military commitments from its member states prove. The idea that article 5 would ever actually be invoked is so unlikely as to be unimaginable and does little but provide a potentially apocalyptic response to something like say, the invasion of Estonia, that doesn't merit the end of the world. Something as unpopular as providing a few nuclear weapons to Poland, Estonia, Latvian, and Lithuania would serve as more of a deterrent than any current uncommitted alliance ever could.

NATO as an entity has outlived its purpose and should be dissolved. One could easily argue, and some have, that the continued existence of and expansion of NATO in the post-Soviet Europe is at least partly to blame for the continued chilly relationship between Europe and Russia, and had the NATO countries not shit all over Russia at its weakest in the early to mid 90s we might not be dealing with an aggressive and expansionist Russia now. Had they made an effort to integrate Russia into a broader Europe we could have a different world.

This isn't a new idea from Trump, many have voiced similar opinions and have warned against kicking Russia while it was down and now the exact results they predicted have come to fruition.

Here's a couple of decent op eds from well known Trump and Putin mouthpieces, the NY Times and Huffpo.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/08/opinion/does-nato-still-exist.html?_r=0

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-zuesse/why-does-nato-still-exist_b_5500604.html


[Edited on January 16, 2017 at 10:06 PM. Reason : adfsdf]

1/16/2017 9:55:05 PM

Man you guys down that kool-aid like shots one dollar well drink night

1/16/2017 9:59:05 PM

I guess. For the last 20 years we've been fucking with Russia, taking advantage of their weakness, meddling directly in the free elections of places like, oh, I don't know Ukraine in say, 2014. It's

Problematically we have a generation in power now who have only dealt with and understand a world with US hegemony. This is a problem when that hegemony is no longer unchallenged. Our floundering, disastrous foreign policy of the last 2 administrations should make it clear how fucking serious this lack of understanding is.

Henry Kissinger is an awful human being, but he has a better grasp of foreign policy than arguably anyone alive today, but by all means ignore him and keep poking the bear.

http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/2014/05/11/kissinger-on-russias-global-integration/

1/16/2017 10:19:18 PM

Quote :

"Quote : "We need oil from Mideast, we need precious metals and ore from china and Africa, we need rockets from Russia, we need scientific instruments from Italy and France, then there's the whole issue of nuclear proliferation. All of these would require us becoming involved in global political issues even if we tried to completely recuse ourselves." You sound like an imperialist, fyi. Or at the very least, you have a very tenuous understanding of how we acquire those things that "we need." It'd be one thing if we traded for those things without interfering with those countries sovereignty and respective democratic processes. But that's not what we do, and I'm certain that you are aware of that. We topple governments and install puppet leaders who rule with an iron fist for the profits of western corporations at the expense of those countries civilians, denying them their right to self determination. So I'm having a hard time understanding what your position is?"

I'm saying we should maintain and grow our alliances for the purpose of advancing scientific cooperation and cultural evolution so citizens of different countries can visit each other without major issues.

It's too simplistic to say "we should just stay out".

1/16/2017 11:01:00 PM

A NATO forces buildup is provoking Russia, but

Quote :

" Something as unpopular as providing a few nuclear weapons to Poland, Estonia, Latvian, and Lithuania would serve as more of a deterrent than any current uncommitted alliance ever could."

Dropping nuclear bombs, with USA stamped on the side, off on Russia's doorstep, against all non-proliferation treaties, is supposed to be a less provoking action?

I agree that I'd like to see the US stop meddling in other countries' affairs/elections as we have done in Eastern Europe, but there is a flip side to this - a lot of the newer NATO countries came running to the US. You cannot ignore that Russia is an absolutely shit neighbor to have, that the ghost of the USSR (and the shitty lives most folks had under that regime) looms over that entire region. No one wants to go back (except Russians), and as a result there was natural movement toward the west and western policies among a lot of these countries.

I'd also also agree that the US foreign policy has been pretty poor over the past few decades, but in regards to Russia, I think the sanctions were actually one of the better positions the US has taken. Projecting economic power will be the new expeditionary force of the 21st century. We are close to having Putin on the ropes, because as soon as he has to substantially start cutting into pensioner funds, his support will plummet. Of course, Trump will fuck this up.

1/17/2017 7:00:15 AM

whats the non-provoking way to respond to russian aggression?

1/17/2017 8:57:13 AM

Gotta love this retconning of history where Obama didn't start his term with an olive branch to Russia while Putin was planning the annexation of Crimea and backing separatists who shot down a commercial jetliner. It's all the USA's fault!

1/17/2017 9:16:13 AM

With regards to CNN, the Trump team needs to be careful not to overplay their hand. They tapped into major resentment of the media as a whole but once you go after beat guys like Acosta you are walking on a very fine line.

Those guys aren't the "problem." It's like going after the teller rather than the CEOs.

^ tbf, the non-Trump GOP has been pretty consistent in criticizing Obama for his weakness wrt Russia..

[Edited on January 17, 2017 at 9:18 AM. Reason : The left has been far more inconsistent]

1/17/2017 9:17:00 AM

NATO is less provocational than the alternative- a buildup of forces by multiple border countries who can no longer rely on NATO for defense and have to increase military spending and try to buildup forces on their own in the face of an increasingly aggressive Russia who has been able to invade multiple countries with no international military response

[Edited on January 17, 2017 at 9:50 AM. Reason : .]

1/17/2017 9:49:57 AM

So is there a greater than 0% chance anything he is saying about healthcare is rooted in reality? Hard to see how "we're going to have insurance for everybody" and "much less expensive" will a) be accomplished, and b) pass Congress.

Somehow when it's obvious he has no plan he'll convince 47% of America it was Paul Ryan's fault.

[Edited on January 17, 2017 at 10:30 AM. Reason : X]

1/17/2017 10:30:17 AM