Quote :

"rip em out "

Oh Christ almighty make the imagery stop

3/7/2012 1:22:58 AM

Quote :

" Then I guess, again, I shouldn't care about murder, because it's not my life and I'll probably never be murdered, right?"

Apples and oranges amigo. Here's the problem with your bullshit argument; abortion in and of itself isn't making you a victim. Somebody aborting their child has no effect on your livelihood unless it obviously involves somebody you are close with (and even then, it doesn't give you the right to tell them what they should do). This is why I brought up the point of all the deaths and abortions happening every day that clearly aren't putting you in the psych ward for fear of losing your shit. MURDER IS FUCKING DIFFERENT. MURDER QUITE CLEARLY CAN MAKE YOU THE VICTIM. Do you have problems with reading fucking comprehension or have you always been this shitty at making comparisons?

Quote :

" Well, I'm just trying to see why you brought it up. I've never bitched about abortion from the context of "I'm not getting my way, waaaaah", so I just don't see why in the fuck you thought that was relevant at all."

I think it's quite easy to see why the give and take of democracy is relevant but I clearly see now that that would be giving you too much credit. I will spell it out again, nice and slow, one more time: sometimes in a democracy there are going to be things that piss you off. Unless you happen to agree with the majority EVERY SINGLE TIME, which given an infinite amount of time is very unlikely, you're going to have to put up with something you disagree with from time to time. It's the price we pay to live in a free society. Whiny bitching and crusading like you are doing because you aren't getting your way isn't only selfish and arrogant but counterproductive. It's not a hard concept to grasp. I swear to God if you don't understand this simple little fucking thought after 3 fucking times I am going to renounce NCSU as my alma mater just by the guilt of association from admitting a dumbass like you.

Quote :

" Have you not even looked at arguments made in this thread? Have you not even looked AT YOUR OWN POSTS where you've essentially said it's not my business because it's not my body? Now, tell me, again, how no one makes the argument that it's not my business because it's not my body, sherlock."

The direction that you are running in in responding to that quote of mine is entering such a surreal sea of retardation that I feel compelled out of pity to reorient you in the right direction. The comments in this thread are completely irrelevant to the point I was making. You originally said "
Given that that is the stance taken by so many people on the issue, I'd say they need "enlightening." This is an ignorant statement because of the assumption you are making by saying these "so many people" need "enlightening" when the reality is that most of us are strangers on the internet whom you don't even know. You don't have any contextual basis to know their feelings, thoughts, and upbringing. You are basing your assumption off of a few things you have read off of the internet without actually getting to know that person. You are equating somebody not agreeing with you with somebody who is unenlightened. That is why you are ignorant and why you have no basis when it comes to "enlightening" people.

Quote :

" When your argument is "it doesn't affect you, don't make laws about it," the proper response is to show other things that probably won't affect me yet are logical to make laws about."

This is "knuckles dragging on the pavement" retarded. This is not the proper response because you can do this with just about everything. I can pick two random things that don't affect me, like the price of hookers in Vegas and the price of guns in America. By this logic, it is basically okay to say something like "The price of hookers in Vegas don't affect me, so we don't need to make laws about them (FYI prostitution is actually legal in Nevada before you say anything stupid). OH SO WHAT ABOUT THE PRICE OF GUNS? I GUESS WE SHOULDN'T HAVE LAWS ABOUT THAT EITHER!" This is an easy way to compare apples and oranges as I have already shown with your misguided attempt to compare abortion and murder in the aforementioned paragraph.

Quote :

" This is one of the most incomprehensible and non-connected sentence I've ever seen in my entire life. what in the heck were you smoking when you thought this sentence made any sense in the context of what you were saying? the gov't is stripping my rights because I didn't get my way? what?"

My bad. I meant "abortion IS wrong" instead of "isn't". Once again the mistake should be pretty easy to clear up since I opened that paragraph with "Personally, I find abortion to be immoral...." but once again that is clearly giving you too much credit. What I was saying goes back to the give and take of democracy. Because you probably won't agree 100% of the time, there are going to be times where you won't get your way in a free society. Instead of embracing the system working, people like you bitch and complain about not getting your way or you bitch and complain about the majority "not being right" or "not being moral" regardless of the fact that you're the minority, you lost, and you need to shut the fuck up. Anyway, it is this type of mindset that would sign our rights away so we could shape society in the image of your misinformed vision. If you want a practical and real world example then read the fucking Patriot Act. Once again, this isn't a hard fucking concept to grasp and I'm beginning to wonder if you could possibly be this retarded or if I've just fallen severe victim to a troll game.

[Edited on March 7, 2012 at 7:03 AM. Reason : .]

3/7/2012 6:57:45 AM

If someone kills a pregnant woman in this day in age it should be considered an heroic act

multikill abortion! twins get bonus points!





population control at its finest.

3/7/2012 10:14:50 AM

Quote :

"Apples and oranges amigo."

No, they're not. The problem with YOUR argument is that you are saying I shouldn't worry about something unless it personally affects me. BULLSHIT. I've shown, precisely, how that argument is bullshit, yet you keep making it. It is the height of arrogance to say that I should only worry about what affects me.

Quote :

"I think it's quite easy to see why the give and take of democracy is relevant but I clearly see now that that would be giving you too much credit. I will spell it out again, nice and slow, one more time: sometimes in a democracy there are going to be things that piss you off. Unless you happen to agree with the majority EVERY SINGLE TIME, which given an infinite amount of time is very unlikely, you're going to have to put up with something you disagree with from time to time."

I disagree with murder, theft, and arson, but for the sake of democracy, I'll put up with them because I can't always get what I want. We're not talking about minute tax policy here. We're talking about the slaughter of millions of the unborn for capricious reasons. I'm not talking about blowing up America simply because I don't agree with every last policy this nation has. I'm talking about changing the policies with which I disagree, but I guess I shouldn't do that, right?

Quote :

"The comments in this thread are completely irrelevant to the point I was making."

But they are WHOLLY relevant to point I was making. You can't come in and disregard everything else others have said, especially when what I am saying in response to you is related to what others have said. And then, when you, yourself, say the same fucking thing as other people and say that I can't point out how others are saying the same thing as I respond to it... what in the world is wrong with you? Are you able to read on higher than a 3rd grade level?

Quote :

"This is an ignorant statement because of the assumption you are making by saying these "so many people" need "enlightening" when the reality is that most of us are strangers on the internet whom you don't even know."

And yet, you are all saying the exact same fucking thing, which means you are either all suffering from the same delusional and misguided thinking and thus need enlightening, or you're just spouting talking points, which would also need enlightening. I'm not saying that everyone ever needs to be enlightened. I'm saying that idiots who continuously say that the only thing worth mentioning or noting in the abortion debate is the woman's body are completely and totally wrong. jesus.

Quote :

"This is "knuckles dragging on the pavement" retarded."

no, "knuckles dragging on the pavement retarded" is saying only discuss policy that affects you.

Quote :

"By this logic, it is basically okay to say something like "The price of hookers in Vegas don't affect me, so we don't need to make laws about them (FYI prostitution is actually legal in Nevada before you say anything stupid). OH SO WHAT ABOUT THE PRICE OF GUNS? I GUESS WE SHOULDN'T HAVE LAWS ABOUT THAT EITHER!""

What in the fuck are you smoking? now you've just gone off the deep end of stupid here. Are you trying to draw a comparison in your argument, that I'm not making, between prices and suggest there's a relevance? YOU are the one saying "only worry about shit that affects you". I am saying that is fucking moronic and absurd.

Quote :

"but once again that is clearly giving you too much credit."

WHAT IN THE FUCK. YOU CAN'T FUCKING TYPE CLEARLY AND IT'S MY FAULT THAT YOU CAN'T FUCKING TYPE CLEARLY? Just leave the Soap Box if you are so fucking stupid that you think that YOUR inability to type is somehow a problem with MY reading comprehension skills.

Let's sum up your arguments so far:
1) I shouldn't argue for policy changes because this is a democracy and we can't always get our own way.
2) Don't ever comment on any policy that doesn't 100% directly affect you.
3) I shouldn't talk about what others have said, even when you repeat their arguments.
4) If you can't actually type what you mean correctly, then the reader is a moron for not understanding what you typed.

3/7/2012 12:59:22 PM

I didn't realize how progressive Arizona is.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/05/us/arizona-planned-parenthood/

Quote :

"Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer has signed off on a bill that will prevent abortion providers like Planned Parenthood from receiving public funds in most cases, her office said. "This is a common sense law that tightens existing state regulations and closes loopholes in order to ensure that taxpayer dollars are not used to fund abortions, whether directly or indirectly," the governor said in a statement. "By signing this measure into law, I stand with the majority of Americans who oppose the use of taxpayer funds for abortion," Brewer said."

5/5/2012 9:51:33 PM

Kansas Bill Mandates Sterilization for Post-Abortion Women

Quote :

"Amidst the latest wave of anti-abortion legislation, the 69-page Kansas bill may be the most controversial. If passed, women in Kansas will be forced to undergo a tubal ligation within 6-months of having an abortion. Tubal ligation or “tube tying”, is a surgical procedure that permanently prevents the patient from becoming pregnant in the future"

http://www.freewoodpost.com/2012/05/18/kansas-bill-mandates-sterilization-for-post-abortion-women/

5/21/2012 1:34:46 PM

lol, trolled!

It's still a stupid fucking bill.

[Edited on May 21, 2012 at 1:47 PM. Reason : .]

5/21/2012 1:41:12 PM

I'm a lib, and I have felt that for the longest time that we should just cut a deal with the GOP to recognize same sex civil unions in exchange to repeal abortion (assuming that we grant somebody the permission when it is deemed medically urgent for the survival of the mother).

Seems like a good deal that would cut a lot of polarization out of politics.

5/21/2012 6:46:11 PM

I would trade abortion for making the death penalty illegal. Seems like if you want to value life, value ALL life, fetal and non-fetal.

Or maybe a package deal...

equal rights for gays, death penalty illegal, for abortion being illegal, with a boost for counseling and services for young mothers.

[Edited on May 21, 2012 at 7:06 PM. Reason : ]

5/21/2012 7:05:36 PM

compromising with fringe ideologies doesn't net you anything. it just moves the spectrum further to the right.

5/21/2012 7:10:53 PM

Yeah, but how much longer are you going to hide from the fact that a fetus DOES develop into a baby, and that this baby DOES develop into life? And the the practice of abortion is abused by casual sex couples that do not take proper precaution. I stoped bying into the whole "you can't guarantee life" ordeal a long while ago.

5/21/2012 7:18:30 PM

The practice itself does actually serve a good purpose, when you consider victims of rape, poverty or the potential health threat to the mother. These causes are all warranted and just, but this practice has been overly abused by folks that aren't taking proper precaution. How much longer can we ignore that? Or is abortion just a necessary evil?

5/21/2012 8:05:23 PM

I don't fucking care

5/21/2012 8:07:18 PM

Quote :

"Yeah, but how much longer are you going to hide from the fact that a fetus DOES develop into a baby, and that this baby DOES develop into life?"

Capitalizing letters doesn't make it any less an appeal to emotion. Not all fetuses develop into babies. And an embryo CAN develop into a baby. A blastocyst CAN develop into a baby. A zygote CAN develop into a baby. A sperm CAN develop into a baby.

Quote :

"And the the practice of abortion is abused by casual sex couples that do not take proper precaution."

Is it? You're begging the question by calling it "abuse". Unintended pregnancy isn't a punishment for sluts that were too stupid to use birth control or just got unlucky and their birth control didn't work. We've evolved to a species that has more control over whether we should bring a child into the world and it is more moral to not do so if the child will either be malformed or not cared for.

Quote :

"The practice itself does actually serve a good purpose, when you consider victims of rape, poverty or the potential health threat to the mother."

No, the best purpose it serves is to reduce the number of unwanted children into this world. And get this through your skull: Even if you outlaw it, women will still do it. They'll use coat hangers, turpentine, and whatever else they can think of to end their unwanted pregnancy. They'll go to back alley abortionists and many more will get infections and die.

That's the price of you getting to punish loose sluts.

5/22/2012 6:51:56 AM

Quote :

"Yeah, but how much longer are you going to hide from the fact that a fetus DOES develop into a baby, and that this baby DOES develop into life? And the the practice of abortion is abused by casual sex couples that do not take proper precaution. I stoped bying into the whole "you can't guarantee life" ordeal a long while ago. "

I think this is a little off base. For one - there is no guarantee that the fetus develops into a person, let alone a healthy functioning person. But that is besides the point, even if every embryo would go on to become a healthy functioning child - abortion should still be permissible.

I hope that as a society we move beyond some archaic view that at some point during pregnancy we receive a 'spark' of life' which defines an imaginary cutoff between when someone is and is not a person. That's just not true. We give birth to a child and as they grow they gain neurons and prune synapses and eventually form some personality to interact with the rest of us. An embryo is not life anymore than a string of DNA that defines the embryo is life. Or for that matter, bits on a hard drive that define the DNA. Its the same argument as looking for 'the missing link' - there is none. Its a slow steady gradient back to our last common ancestor with the chimpanzee. There is no defining moment where one of the animals was human and the parent was not. The point is we aren't going find the 'human moment' so we need to decided as a society where that is for us. Clearly its not at DNA (or you better not lose white blood cells), and its probably not post birth (debatable). Its somewhere in between and we should look to science, not emotion, to determine that time before we get carried away with regulations.

Moreover, its morally reprehensible to force someone to give birth to a child that they do not want. Not only are you enforcing an unjust punishment on the parents, but you are putting the child in a statistical group of people that are significantly less likely to succeed. Its just as crazy to think people will stop having sex if you outlaw it. We evolved for millions of years to do one thing, you can't regulate that away.

5/22/2012 9:37:48 AM

Quote :

"Or is abortion just a necessary evil?"

if it's done very early in the pregnancy, i don't see it anymore evil than rubbing one out into the shower drain.

5/22/2012 10:18:31 AM

Quote :

" Moreover, its morally reprehensible to force someone to give birth to a child that they do not want. "

I'd argue it's morally reprehensible to kill a child because the parents don't want it. Do you think something magical happens in the minutes before the baby passes through a woman's cunt? If you don't want a baby, don't get pregnant. If you get pregnant, either take responsibility or give your kid up for adoption.

Quote :

"Not only are you enforcing an unjust punishment on the parents, but you are putting the child in a statistical group of people that are significantly less likely to succeed."

With that logic, let's kill all children in poverty. They probably won't succeed anyway.

5/22/2012 1:48:55 PM

Quote :

"I'd argue it's morally reprehensible to kill a child because the parents don't want it."

I'd argue that it's not "killing a child" if it's done early in the pregnancy, and to call it "killing a child" is being sensationalistic and innacurate.

Quote :

"If you don't want a baby, don't get pregnant."

So are you saying you should be celibate if don't want to get pregnant? Because accidents happen. Have you never had a broken condomn? And condomns nor birth control are 100% effective.

There should be better measures in place to prevent unwanted pregnancies (better education, etc), and i hate that some people abuse abortions, but if people are having sex, there's always going to be unwanted pregnancies.

[Edited on May 22, 2012 at 2:02 PM. Reason : ]

5/22/2012 1:57:23 PM

Quote :

"With that logic, let's kill all children in poverty. They probably won't succeed anyway."

jesus man, aborting an embryo and killing a kid are two different things.

5/22/2012 1:58:11 PM

Quote :

"I'd argue it's morally reprehensible to kill a child because the parents don't want it. Do you think something magical happens in the minutes before the baby passes through a woman's cunt? If you don't want a baby, don't get pregnant. If you get pregnant, either take responsibility or give your kid up for adoption. "

A)It's not magical. It's the physical separation of the fetus from the host mother. Hey look at that, now it's a person.

B)A zygote, embryo, or fetus is not a 'child' or a 'baby.'

c)Join us in the 21st century where pleasure fucking isn't a sin.

5/22/2012 2:05:23 PM

Quote :

"B)A zygote, embryo, or fetus is not a 'child' or a 'baby.' "

I would argue that in order to properly understand this issue, you must accept that a child, baby, and fetus are the same thing after some point in time. You may not like it, but it is reasonable to think this.

If you can't accept this, you could never understand where the "other side" is coming from.

5/22/2012 3:05:57 PM

Quote :

"you must accept that a child, baby, and fetus are the same thing after some point in time."

and that "some point in time" is birth, when the fetus can live unconnected from it's host. i'm not advocating late-term abortion, i don't agree with that at all, but a fetus is not a child. and an embryo certainly isn't a chld. and a egg certainly isn't a child, nor is a sperm. nor dna or protein.

5/22/2012 3:15:00 PM

just give all fetus's a hoodie and some iced tea and skittles. then it won't be abortion. just self-defense.

5/22/2012 3:17:43 PM

Quote :

" and that "some point in time" is birth, when the fetus can live unconnected from it's host."

It's sensible to say that a fetus=baby=child when it's able to survive in an artificial incubators.

Who knows what future medical science will allow for too.

This isn't a black/white issue. If it were, this debate wouldn't be so on-going.

Every thread on this has the same issues rehashed over and over. They always seem to center around whether it's "alive" or a "human" or not. The fact that people never agree seems to indicate to me that people are arguing about the wrong things.

There are sensible arguments both ways that at some point in the 3rd trimester the fetus is/is-not a child. But if we assume that both sides agree on when that point is, the political issue of abortion still would rage on. This life/not-life distinction isn't what abortion is about.

5/22/2012 3:43:07 PM

i know, because a sperm is also alive and can go on to form an embryo, fetus, and baby. but masturbating isn't quite as controversial as abortion.

5/22/2012 4:08:18 PM

Quote :

"It's sensible to say that a fetus=baby=child when it's able to survive in an artificial incubators"

Ignoring of course the one person in the equation that is actually a person and has ultimate say over what does or does not happen to her body.

[Edited on May 23, 2012 at 10:48 AM. Reason : .]

5/23/2012 10:47:32 AM

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

5/23/2012 12:03:42 PM

Quote :

" If you don't want a baby, don't get pregnant"

or Raped....

5/23/2012 5:03:16 PM

Quote :

"Unintended pregnancy isn't a punishment for sluts that were too stupid to use birth control or just got unlucky and their birth control didn't work."

No, it's not a punishment. it's just the natural consequence of those actions.

Quote :

"We've evolved to a species that has more control over whether we should bring a child into the world and it is more moral to not do so if the child will either be malformed or not cared for."

And yet, we haven't quite evolved enough to the point where we don't slaughter innocent human life simply because it's inconvenient to us or we didn't think about the consequences of our actions beforehand. hmmm...

Quote :

"And get this through your skull: Even if you outlaw it, women will still do it. They'll use coat hangers, turpentine, and whatever else they can think of to end their unwanted pregnancy."

That people will break the law is not an argument against making a law.

Quote :

"Moreover, its morally reprehensible to force someone to give birth to a child that they do not want."

No. It's morally reprehensible to kill innocent human life simply because it's inconvenient to you and you didn't think about the consequences of your actions beforehand. THAT is morally reprehensible.

Quote :

"A)It's not magical. It's the physical separation of the fetus from the host mother. Hey look at that, now it's a person."

Ahhh, so a woman can pass the baby out of her body and still bash its skull in, as long as the umbilical cord is not severed. perfect logic.

5/23/2012 10:59:38 PM

Quote :

"Quote : "It's sensible to say that a fetus=baby=child when it's able to survive in an artificial incubators" Ignoring of course the one person in the equation that is actually a person and has ultimate say over what does or does not happen to her body."

They are both persons, I'm not sure why you're disputing this now.

5/23/2012 11:35:22 PM

^^we've been over this a thousand times, including the umbilical cord so no, I'm not responding again.

5/24/2012 9:14:36 AM

Quote :

"No. It's morally reprehensible to kill innocent human life"

it's not a human life and it's not killing. it's aborting a embryo.

yall realize it's punishing the kid that the embryo is gonna eventually turn into if the parent doesn't want (or is uncapable) of caring for them. many will turn into the same "thugs" and "scum" that you come to soap box to bitch about.

and you seem to ignor the issue of no matter how careful people are, accidents happen. condoms break all the time. they're not 100% effective. neither is birth control. so it's not just as easy as "if you don't want a baby, don't get pregnant".

5/24/2012 9:29:59 AM

No, just don't ever have sex you sluts. Shouldn't have fucked if you can't take the consequences.

Shouldn't have gotten in the car if you can't take getting decapitated.

5/24/2012 9:55:16 AM

Is that how burro and other's essentially see it?

"If you don't want a baby, don't have sex"?

Did they have sex in high school and college? Would they have dropped-out to care for their kid if their condom broke with some one night-stand, or a their college girl-friend of 3 months?

5/24/2012 10:20:40 AM

Can't speak for them but you know what I think.

5/24/2012 10:26:37 AM

Quote :

"Did they have sex in high school and college? Would they have dropped-out to care for their kid if their condom broke with some one night-stand, or a their college girl-friend of 3 months?"

After reading this, I am officially back on the pro choice bandwagon.

5/24/2012 2:28:16 PM

Quote :

"Can't speak for them"

or any other woman, for that matter

hilarious thread, guys

5/24/2012 2:47:46 PM

Hey! I'm on your side! That's my point entirely!

5/24/2012 2:54:29 PM

Quote :

"Is that how burro and other's essentially see it? "If you don't want a baby, don't have sex"?"

That's what we tell men who don't want the responsibility of a child.

5/24/2012 9:38:04 PM

so either you're a virgin, you waited until marriage, or everytime you pre-mariatlly fornicate, you're prepared to be a responsible (accidental) father? the guy who posts pornographic somersault sex pics on tww?

5/25/2012 12:18:26 AM

eat the pill, woman.

5/25/2012 12:22:39 AM

5/25/2012 12:35:57 AM

I bet Burro is a thrill to hang out with.

5/25/2012 8:38:03 AM

Quote :

"eat the pill, woman."

the pill can have all sorts of side-effects, some more dangerous than others. and like any birth control, it's not 100% effective. pregnacy can occur even when on the pill. it's rare, but it happens.... and some people don't even think that taking the pill is "immoral".

5/25/2012 9:29:17 AM

pull out and shoot some ropes then.

5/25/2012 10:18:33 AM

lol, *that's* effective birth control.

5/25/2012 10:23:00 AM

the pull-out doesn't help the dribblers.

and above^^^ i meant to say "and some people even think the pill is "immoral"

5/25/2012 10:51:22 AM

put it in her mouth.

5/25/2012 11:46:10 AM

today I learned:

by age 45, 1 in 3 women have abortions.

Kind of amazing when you consider that 40% of births are to unwed mothers. The case of a woman who gets married and then has a child (even a shotgun wedding!) seems like it'll become statistically negligible.

10/21/2012 10:13:29 AM

We should outlaw all abortions except in cases of rape. Desperate women who want an abortion would never cry rape to get it, right?

10/21/2012 10:45:39 AM