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3/5/2012 5:10:26 PM

From WRAL:
http://www.wral.com/specialreports/michelleyoung/story/10814366/

Quote :

"There was also no physical evidence linking him to the crime. DNA and fingerprints at the crime scene have never been identified, and investigators have never found two pairs of shoes that left bloody footprints at the crime scene. But Cummings said that even though evidence was lacking, it was clear Jason Young was responsible for Michelle Young's death. “The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence,” Cummings said."

3/5/2012 5:39:44 PM

yeah, fuck needing evidence to convict a guy of murder. who the fuck needs that?

3/5/2012 5:48:28 PM

It is clear that Howard Cummings is guilty of murder. The absence of evidence or murder victim is no excuse.

[Edited on March 5, 2012 at 5:51 PM. Reason : .]

3/5/2012 5:50:34 PM

I love how people's right to a fair trial are being violated because of how overly pussified this country has become over the past 50 years to the point where the husband is automatically guilty because he abused/hated his wife and "looks like a murderer"

3/5/2012 6:27:28 PM

Assuming he did it, he obviously put a LOT of planning into the entire thing, probably letting it dominate his life after his first attempt (the car accident) fails. He may have even taken this job or this specific sales call in order to facilitate the murder.

I think he wanted to murder her before the baby was born, as then he would be left to care for his children on his own and he wanted out of fatherhood and marriage.

Seriously though, it all makes sense when you think about it, except for the fact he did not kill the daughter too. His plan had to be to kill the daughter as well, even if he thinks she is too young to ever remember anything she might see or hear he knows she puts the whole thing at risk if he leaves her alive, but I think when it came time to do the deed he couldn't kill her.

He returns to the house "dressed to kill" in the clothes he was wearing when he left the hotel, plus the size 10 shoes in case he leaves footprints. He has a change of clothes he leaves in the garage or out back. He comes in, drops two cig butts he picked up in a parking lot somewhere on the floor, leaves the door open (he likes to do this) goes upstairs, he beats his wife to death, either nervously forgets to kill his daughter or can't, strips down, the shoes and all his clothes and anything he uses to wipe himself off are bagged and he goes downstairs and out back to wash off with the hose and change. Then in the heat of it all he begins to doubt his planning, he decides to check on his daughter (after all he might never see her again) or perhaps he thinks he hears his daughter moving upstairs. He returns to the 2nd story and his daughter is awake and has seen the mess in the master bedroom, and tracked little bloody footprints everywhere. He cleans her up, gives her the cold medicine and tells her some story about what is going on and puts her back to bed. He goes in the master and waits for his daughter to go to sleep but being right there in the room where he just killed his wife is too much. Paranoia sets in. "Got to make it look like a robbery" he thinks, so he goes in the closet, grabs the drawers from the jewelery box etc. Then leaves and heads back to the hotel, he has to check out on time and make the meeting. He probably disposed of the bloody clothes, shoes, and anything else on the way back to VA, but could have done it the next day after his meeting at the hospital. He had an extra pair of shoes or two in his car, and there was hand sanitizer in the map pocket of the drivers door, "out damned spot" he says all the way back. On the long slow ride back he watches the fuel gauge get closer and closer to E, finally the thought of being stuck on the side of the road with no explanation begins to worry him so badly he decides to stop and get enough gas to be safe, he finds an old station less likely to get him on camera, at which he only pumps 15 bucks worth to save time even though he gave the cashier 20. When he arrives back at the hotel, he discovers the camera he unplugged has been plugged back in so he has to point it at the ceiling to enter without being recorded. The outside door he rigged is now unlocked but since he rigged the room door he does not have to use the room key to enter, shower, get dressed for the meeting and get the hell out. He is only 30 minutes late for the meeting but the adrenaline is still going, causing his leg to shake.

He had cleverly worked out the eBay listing printout fiasco, and his trip to his mothers house after the meeting in VA as a device to get the sister in law over to the house to discover the body. He knew the husband is the first suspect in cases like this so he didn't want to be the one to find the body because then he would absolutely have to talk to the police. As we have come to learn, being questioned by investigators was a risk he was not willing to take at any cost.

When I think about all the planning and detail that went into this it really amazes me. Assuming he did it of course.


Now if we could only figure out how Brad Cooper did it...

3/5/2012 6:39:06 PM

That bullshit about the car accident being his "first attempt" on Michelle's life makes me want to strangle the prosecution.

3/5/2012 6:42:22 PM

What was the date of the "first attempt"?

These days it would be hard to kill someone like that in an accident.

3/5/2012 6:46:45 PM

Memorial Day before the murder, so 2006.

3/5/2012 6:48:01 PM

Just making sure is wasn't after this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennedy_and_Heidi

Because killing someone after an accident like that would be a lot easier, you wouldn't need an alibi, and life insurance would still pay out for accidental death.

3/5/2012 6:50:37 PM

wait wait wait wait...

he has hand sanitizer in his car... so that makes him a murderer? really?

3/5/2012 6:52:26 PM

golbasi984 did it

3/5/2012 6:54:11 PM

Apparently the fact that there was no blood transfer in his car, no fiber transfer from the hotel to his house, and no blood in the drains of his home weren't enough...

3/5/2012 6:54:14 PM

So. Do you think he appeals?

3/5/2012 6:54:26 PM

Of course. They announced the appeal in the courtroom today.

Any chance he wins? Slight. Stephens is not the type of Judge to leave much room for an overturn on appeal. I think that his most susceptible decisions would have been allowing in the evidence of CY's doll play, and the information on the wrongful death suit. I don't know that it will reach the level of reversible error.

Now, the real question is... which transcript is completed first? Cooper, which is not done yet? Or this one?

3/5/2012 7:05:35 PM

I mentioned the hand sanitizer only because you could clearly see in the pictures it was a pump bottle that had been used, and not a travel size that had been in his vehicle untouched for months. And to make a Macbeth joke. SORRY


I forgot to cover the fiber transfer, but that wouldn't be hard to get around, after all he checked in, changed, disappeared, and was never seen at the hotel again.

I am surprised we didnt hear from anyone else who stayed at the hotel that night, the detectives should have tracked down everyone they could and questioned them with regards to Jason Young, the outside door, etc.

3/5/2012 7:15:33 PM

Ahhh, but if he was wearing the same shoes in the hotel and in the home (what they contend), shouldn't there be a transfer?

3/5/2012 7:17:46 PM

I didn't think the prosecution said he had to be wearing the same shoes in the hotel and anywhere else, BUT his vehicle was not parked close to the building, and I would think that a few steps in grass or an oily asphalt parking lot would eliminate most fibers he would be tracking out after only a short time in the hotel.

I cant find the photos taken by investigators of him or the Explorer now, it appears WRAL took them down?

[Edited on March 5, 2012 at 7:24 PM. Reason : dsfds]

3/5/2012 7:23:19 PM

Here you go: http://www.wral.com/specialreports/michelleyoung/asset_gallery/9746298/

3/5/2012 7:25:28 PM

Found them

http://www.wral.com/specialreports/michelleyoung/image_gallery/9760559/



Hey look, more shoes. A smart man always keeps an extra pair they say, never know when your gonna really step in it.



I have NEVER seen this much hand sanitizer in a vehicle owned by a straight male, in such an easily accessible spot. Not that it makes him guilty, just saying.




[Edited on March 5, 2012 at 7:37 PM. Reason : Why did he have THREE suitcases? I see now why the jury wanted an inventory of what he had with him.]

3/5/2012 7:27:34 PM

He had 3 suitcases because his parents road back in his car with him, with their suitcases...

One for him, one for Momma Young and one for Step Daddy Young.

and they never asked for the shoes he was ACTUALLY WEARING when he got back to Raleigh.

And lol at Jackleg posting on websleuths.




[Edited on March 5, 2012 at 7:41 PM. Reason : ]

3/5/2012 7:40:27 PM

i kept my boots in my trunk for months at a time. and i have sanitizer in my car. it's a small one, but it's almost out so i might just move my bigger one from my house into my car. i have not murdered anybody.

[Edited on March 5, 2012 at 7:42 PM. Reason : yet]

3/5/2012 7:41:57 PM

I'm not judging you bro.

3/5/2012 7:48:07 PM

Next thing you know the government will just start killing Americans with out a trial....

oh wait....

http://news.yahoo.com/holder-speak-targeted-killings-americans-192324573--abc-news.html

3/5/2012 8:04:02 PM

i also have a large bottle of hand sanitizer and extra shoes and clothes in my car. This is not that unusual. it sickens me that he is convicted without any physical evidence. He is being convicted of being a bad husband. bullshit.

3/5/2012 8:10:59 PM

I would have voted NG, but there was physical evidence.

3/5/2012 8:12:24 PM

i have hand sanitizer and shoes in my car

there is no evidence that i was at the scene of the murder

i killed Michelle Young

3/5/2012 8:37:53 PM

three margaritas later

3/5/2012 8:52:53 PM

I hear people clamoring for direct evidence, but I hear noone who wants justice for the unborn baby boy? That poor boy never had a chance to be held in his mother's arms, to kiss a girl, to tell a lie... much less to get drunk and pull his dick out at parties, sport fuck behind his wife's back, or commit the perfect murder.


Seriously, she was 22 weeks along, why weren't there two 1st degree murder charges on the indictment? My guess is the prosecution didn't want this to turn into a trial about the rights of a fetus?

3/5/2012 8:53:53 PM

Killing an unborn child was not "murder" punishable by law until just recently (Jenna's law, I think, named after the pregnant newspaper carrier just down the street). IF Michelle were killed today, the defendant could be prosecuted for both her death, and baby Rylan's.

3/5/2012 8:57:01 PM

The things that stuck out to me the most are the camera tampering, the missing wedding/engagement rings (with testimony from his ex), and the way Michelle was killed. The physical evidence was certainly lacking, but I feel like everybody expects forensic science to always play a major role in convictions these days because of all the exposure we have to it. As witnessed today, not always true.

I most likely would have arrived at the same conclusion as the jury. I'm not sure where they got 2nd degree murder option from, though...

3/5/2012 9:14:07 PM

^^ yeah, that's your answer.

3/5/2012 9:15:06 PM

Quote :

"I didn't think the prosecution said he had to be wearing the same shoes in the hotel and anywhere else, BUT his vehicle was not parked close to the building, and I would think that a few steps in grass or an oily asphalt parking lot would eliminate most fibers he would be tracking out after only a short time in the hotel. "

my god, we've got a bona fide forensic fiber expert in here, don't we? where'd you go to school for that, Websleuths U?

Quote :

"I hear people clamoring for direct evidence, but I hear noone who wants justice for the unborn baby boy?"

What in the fuck are you smoking? We want justice for everyone involved. That doesn't mean convicting whatever poor sap the prosecution throws in front of a jury, just because "we want justice for that poor unborn child". People want direct evidence because they don't want an innocent man thrown into prison simply for being a shitty husband whose wife happened to be killed. I think that's a reasonable request, don't you? meanwhile, you come in here with a script that would be rejected by the producers of Matlock, and you wonder why in the hell we want direct evidence?

I mean, really? He's got more hand sanitizer than you think he should, so that makes him a murderer? I hope you are nowhere near a jury with those kind of logical skills you're workin with. I mean, the guy comes up with this "perfect plan" and leaves the hand sanitizer? REALLY? Did you ever stop to think that maybe his wife drove the car sometime, too, and put that fucking hand sanitizer there?

[Edited on March 5, 2012 at 9:43 PM. Reason : ]

3/5/2012 9:38:10 PM

I did not follow this trial all that much, but I was still in Raleigh when this happened. Was there any evidence presented about JY feet having marks on them and the theory of that being from cramming them into smaller shoes? In the evidence photos above there are pics of Jasons feet.

3/6/2012 12:55:07 AM

For me the fact that they put Murder 2 on the table was baffling. Murder 2 by definition means there was NO PREMEDITATION, which completely went against the entire case in chief.

3/6/2012 1:21:37 AM

It's best to let the jury choose the crime they think he committed.

It's like voting. Even if the voter doesn't recognize any of the names or like any of the options, they'll still pick one because they think they can't leave the ballot blank.

3/6/2012 3:30:10 AM

Quote :

"I hear people clamoring for direct evidence, but I hear noone who wants justice for the unborn baby boy"

glad to see the police/prosecutor mentality is prevalent among the masses....any conviction is a good conviction, right?

3/6/2012 9:27:02 AM

Quote :

"For me the fact that they put Murder 2 on the table was baffling. Murder 2 by definition means there was NO PREMEDITATION, which completely went against the entire case in chief."

Agreed, its all or nothing.

3/6/2012 9:31:01 AM

jesus christ, i feel for anyone who gets golbasi984 on their jury

3/6/2012 9:55:13 AM

Wow. I guess the next guy could ask that the trial be moved out of Wake County so he can get a fair trial, but that might be used as evidence against him.

Quote :

"For me the fact that they put Murder 2 on the table was baffling. Murder 2 by definition means there was NO PREMEDITATION, which completely went against the entire case in chief."

What did they give Brad Cooper in that trail? The one where he planned it out by stealing necessary equipment to fake a call, purchasing a canoe to dispose of said equipment, etc.

[Edited on March 6, 2012 at 11:17 AM. Reason : -]

3/6/2012 11:10:44 AM

Cooper asked that the trial be moved out of Wake County, and it was denied. I'm sure Young did the same thing.

Juror set to be interviewed at 11:45 this morning.

[Edited on March 6, 2012 at 11:16 AM. Reason : ]

3/6/2012 11:16:21 AM

what if begonias and Sayer could have saved him

3/6/2012 11:26:39 AM

^serial

3/6/2012 11:33:02 AM

I'd like to think that those two probably would have kept JY's ass-cherry intact

3/6/2012 12:28:04 PM

Juror being interviewed said on the first poll, all four men voted guilty. One woman was Guilty, one Not Guilty, and the others undecided.
The jurors are like a family, and get together for dinner now.

Quote :

"Mountain of circumstancial evidence. They gave them a 6 page doc that explained CE? that explained about it. He Couldn't produce the shirt. No shoes. No jeans that he had on in CB. Looked at photo and could see they were a different set of jeans. If you were innocent you would be handing stuff you wore to the Police. Prosecution did good job of showing he lied in video. Didn't really care if he took stand either way. Gracie Calhoun: Took testimony piece by piece. Jury room had posters all over. Went thru timeline and worked whether he was there or not, some believed some didn't but didn't matter because it would work either way. Camera: CE again but the fact that MY smoked and he hated it.... they just didn't find this credible. Thought he did definitely did unplug the camera. CE but How unlucky can one guy be? Someone else there: Fingerprints could have been friends/family or for years. So that didn't make difference to her. Shoe prints (franklin) they thought he put there because it was so firmly placed in the blood. (blatant says Beth). No fibers in his car: Thought he changed right there so he didn't transfer fiber to his car. Re donating to Goodwill: Just didn't make sense. Lot of unanswered questions but they had to find him guilty. Re: Pat Young/jewelry: They didn't buy other stuff was missing. MY didn't have enemys. Thought he cleaned CY up. Stranger wouldn't do that. Didn't think CY daycare worker stuff entered her mind too much but she can't say if it helped her make up her mind one way or another. "

"If you were innocent you would be handing this stuff to LE, and he didn't."

"If he had produced the shirt, if he had produced the shoes, he'd be a free man right now."

"Sounds like they got the best jurors ever! Thanks Judge Stephens!"

3/6/2012 12:31:51 PM

Quote :

"I'd like to think that those two probably would have kept JY's ass-cherry intact"

Are you kidding? Wife murderers are at the top of the food chain in prison. He'll be fine.

3/6/2012 12:32:40 PM

Goes to show, you can carry out the perfect crime and leave no evidence behind, but jurors don't give a shit. You can't outwit mass stupidity.

Juries are rubber stamps.

[Edited on March 6, 2012 at 1:31 PM. Reason : .]

3/6/2012 1:30:54 PM

i just don't see how a logical person can say "well, we don't have this evidence, so it means he's guilty." What in the fuck are they feeding jurors these days?

i mean, shit, if I'm a prosecutor in a murder case, I'm just going to make up some mythical piece of evidence that could perfectly show guilt or innocence, and then demand the poor sucker in the defendant's chair to produce it. That seems to convince dumbass jurors of guilt. Hell, why not use the Chewbacca defense as a prosecutor?

[Edited on March 6, 2012 at 1:57 PM. Reason : ]

3/6/2012 1:56:09 PM

^Yeah, these two are direct quotes from the jurors:
"If you were innocent you would be handing this stuff to LE, and he didn't."
"If he had produced the shirt, if he had produced the shoes, he'd be a free man right now."

There's a reason the evidence was missing, and that's because LE failed to collect it, not because he didn't voluntarily say "here, let me give you this shirt I'm wearing right now, just in case you need it in my murder trial."

3/6/2012 1:57:53 PM

Quote :

""If you were innocent you would be handing this stuff to LE, and he didn't." "If he had produced the shirt, if he had produced the shoes, he'd be a free man right now.""

Quote :

"5th Amendment: No person...shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself."

When will people learn it isn't the defendant's job to prove their own innocence, and that not talking to law enforcement doesn't mean jack shit?

3/6/2012 2:11:56 PM