You can't figure out from that quote that I mistakenly hit "m" instead of "b" while typing? Because its pretty obvious to me.


It being a non-necessary luxury good does not mean it should be banned, but lets stop pretending like you need it.

[Edited on January 3, 2013 at 12:56 PM. Reason : added point]

1/3/2013 12:55:28 PM

The typo was the least of that sentence's worries-

1/3/2013 12:59:27 PM

I sorry english hard fer u

1/3/2013 1:01:04 PM

the point i've been trying to convey is that it's easy to see why hunters, competitive shooters, and folks who want protection in their homes choose the AR-15 and its many variants.

and for the majority of us, it's not because it makes us feel "macho", as i'm sure you'll suggest. it's because it's a well-designed rifle that can fill a lot of roles for a reasonable price.

1/3/2013 1:02:41 PM

Willy used to try to insult me by saying I write like an asian talks

1/3/2013 1:03:20 PM

you're the minority, dude

1/3/2013 1:03:32 PM

Lol, whatever man. I dont think im really being a grammar nazi here, but its not like im pointing out your flaws because I have a weak position.

When you type gibberish and expect legitimate responses you shouldnt be surprised when someone calls you out or asks for clarification.

At least Kris can shut the fuck up now and quit pulling a God.

Bullet its no secret that you used to annoy the piss out of me, which isnt really the case anymore, but again I might have only been insulting (sorry) in my quest for clarification when you would string together a mile of engrish. Some of your older posts are truly terrifying-





[Edited on January 3, 2013 at 1:09 PM. Reason : -_-]

1/3/2013 1:05:50 PM

Quote :

"Where the fuck do some of you people live? Varmints? Coyotes? Jesus Christ. How the hell are you even connected to the internet right now? Shouldn't you be outside, picking boysenberries or something? If nature is that goddamn threatening, maybe you should pack up and join the rest of civilization and move into town, where we have indoor plumbing and grocery stores."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coyote

Quote :

"Despite being extensively hunted, the coyote is one of the few medium- to large-sized animals that has enlarged its range since human encroachment began. ... They have moved into most of the areas of North America formerly occupied by wolves, and are often observed foraging in suburban garbage bins. ... Researchers studied coyote populations in Chicago over a seven-year period (2000–2007), proposing that coyotes have adapted well to living in densely populated urban environments while avoiding contact with humans. They found, among other things, that urban coyotes tend to live longer than their rural counterparts, kill rodents and small pets, and live anywhere from parks to industrial areas. The researchers estimate there are up to 2,000 coyotes living in "the greater Chicago area" and that this circumstance may well apply to many other urban landscapes in North America. ... In another testament to the coyote's habitat adaptability, a coyote nicknamed "Hal" made his way to New York City's Central Park in March 2006, wandering about the park for at least two days before being captured by officials. New York's parks commissioner Adrian Benepe noted this coyote had to be very "adventurous" and "curious" to get so far into the city.[60] An incident also occurred in April 2007 in the Chicago Loop district, where a coyote, later nicknamed "Adrian", quietly entered a Quizno's restaurant during the lunch hours; it was later captured and released at a wildlife rehabilitation center near Barrington, Illinois.[61][62] In February 2010, up to three coyotes were spotted on the Columbia University campus, and another coyote sighting occurred in Central Park.[63] ... In the 30 years leading up to March 2006, at least 160 attacks occurred in the United States, mostly in the Los Angeles County area.[67] Data from USDA Wildlife Services, the California Department of Fish and Game, and other sources show that while 41 attacks occurred during the period of 1988–1997, 48 attacks were verified from 1998 through 2003. The majority of these incidents occurred in Southern California near the suburban-wildland interface.[68] In the absence of the harassment of coyotes practiced by rural people, urban coyotes are losing their fear of humans, which is further worsened by people intentionally or unintentionally feeding coyotes. In such situations, some coyotes have begun to act aggressively toward humans, chasing joggers and bicyclists, confronting people walking their dogs, and stalking small children.[68] Nonrabid coyotes in these areas will sometimes target small children, mostly under the age of 10, though some adults have been bitten. ... Coyotes are presently the most abundant livestock predators in western North America, causing the majority of sheep, goat and cattle losses.[15] For example, according to the National Agricultural Statistics Service, coyotes were responsible for 60.5% of the 224,000 sheep deaths attributed to predation in 2004.[70] The total number of sheep deaths in 2004 comprised 2.22% of the total sheep and lamb population in the United States.[71] According to the National Agricultural Statistics Service USDA report, "All sheep and lamb inventory in the United States on July 1, 2005, totaled 7.80 million head, 2% above July 1, 2004. Breeding sheep inventory at 4.66 million head on July 1, 2005 was 2% above July 1, 2004."[72] Because coyote populations are typically many times greater and more widely distributed than those of wolves, coyotes cause more overall predation losses. However, an Idaho census taken in 2005 showed that individual coyotes were one-twentieth as likely to attack livestock than individual wolves.[73] ... The U.S. government routinely shoots, poisons, traps and kills about 90,000 coyotes each year to protect livestock.[77]"

[Edited on January 3, 2013 at 1:11 PM. Reason : asdf]

1/3/2013 1:09:59 PM

Sadly, dozens of dead children is the price we must pay so the citizenry can keep the hoards of coyotes and groundhogs at bay.

1/3/2013 1:12:20 PM

Probably a good idea not to pull out your AR and start shooting coyotes in Chicago.

[Edited on January 3, 2013 at 1:39 PM. Reason : -]

1/3/2013 1:12:47 PM

Quote :

"you're the minority, dude"

ok

Quote :

"Sadly, dozens of dead children is the price we must pay so the citizenry can keep the hoards of coyotes and groundhogs at bay."

would you prefer they be killed by another varmint rifle?

[Edited on January 3, 2013 at 1:14 PM. Reason : sg]

1/3/2013 1:13:02 PM

If dudes who have no sense of machismo attached to their guns are the majority, then the entire firearms industry has committed the most blatant failure in the history of marketing and advertising.

1/3/2013 1:14:38 PM

dead red wolves will be the price we pay for coyote hunting way more than dead children

1/3/2013 1:14:44 PM

Quote :

"would you prefer they be killed by another varmint rifle?"

Maybe try trapping or becoming a better shot with the old bolt-action.

1/3/2013 1:17:58 PM

so you'd prefer they be killed with a bolt gun?

argument is stupid anyway. 2nd amendment isn't about hunting. to think that the AR-15 has no practical purpose at all is simply wrong.

[Edited on January 3, 2013 at 1:21 PM. Reason : as]

1/3/2013 1:19:45 PM

"but isn't a dead coyote a dead coyote, why does it matter what is used" <-- post that will happen in a minute

1/3/2013 1:20:46 PM

Can you kill coyotes with sarin gas?

1/3/2013 1:23:48 PM

I lived in Chicago for three years, and I never encountered one of these "urban coyotes" who are not afraid of people.

In fact, until I see an coyote getting off the red line wearing a scarf, skinny jeans, and thick framed glasses while drinking a pop, I'll be convinced that this is not an epidemic.

Until these dingos start eating people's babies, it's a non-issue.

1/3/2013 1:35:24 PM

Quote :

"so you'd prefer they be killed with a bolt gun?"

I'd prefer that "well they're useful for hunting varmints and coyotes" not be spoken with a straight face as a response to "why have these guns that are super efficient at murdering children quickly and accurately?"

Hence my sarin gas remark.

edit: Don't get me wrong, I'm all for trained park rangers and even ranchers with a special permit doing so, but I don't think Joe Infowars should have easy access to one just because he lives in downtown Chicago and might want to visit the suburbs someday.

[Edited on January 3, 2013 at 1:39 PM. Reason : .]

1/3/2013 1:36:36 PM

the statement was more along the lines of "these guns have no practical purpose for anyone. the only people who buy them are wackos with little man syndrome."

like i said, it's very easy to see why a hunter, competitive shooter, or someone in the market for a home defense weapon would choose the AR.

1/3/2013 1:44:27 PM

i've just been reading, not posting, but damn if this page doesnt have me rofling.

[Edited on January 3, 2013 at 1:50 PM. Reason : .]

1/3/2013 1:48:40 PM

Quote :

"Maybe try trapping or becoming a better shot with the old bolt-action. "

become more efficient and accurate with a gun? that's the last thing we want him to do! think of the carnage that will ensue when he, like all other gun owners, inevitibly snaps and starts murdering children!

1/3/2013 1:49:21 PM

I can also see how someone might choose to defend their home by jumping in a panic room and releasing sarin gas into the rest of the house's ventilation system, doesn't mean it justifies mass availability of sarin gas.

Quote :

"become more efficient and accurate with a gun? that's the last thing we want him to do! think of the carnage that will ensue when he, like all other gun owners, inevitibly snaps and starts murdering children!"

Alright you got a chuckle out of me with this one

[Edited on January 3, 2013 at 1:50 PM. Reason : .]

1/3/2013 1:50:04 PM

Quote :

"Maybe you should frame the debate in a way that doesnt include copy and pasting, since you obviously are (probably from some blog), and arent very good at it."

What? Are you suggesting that some blogger is having the exact same silly debate about needing semi-automatic assualt rifles to protect themselves from gophers, with himself? I assure you I am not plagurizing, I apologize if my intellegence intimidates you so you must assume I copy my responses from someone else. I think it's fairly obvious that I couldn't copy and paste my arguments even if I wanted, no one else has been addressed with arguments as silly as these, so the responses to them must be solely my own. How does one even respond to such a strange accusation of plagurizism, heck, I even had a mistake in there where I lost my train of thought: "you should frame the gun control debate around keeping the guns that around keeping the guns that actually have a purpose".

Quote :

"and for the majority of us, it's not because it makes us feel "macho", as i'm sure you'll suggest. it's because it's a well-designed rifle that can fill a lot of roles for a reasonable price."

You haven't named a single role that can't be done by something much cheaper once, you have, however, named the quickest way to shoot the largest amount of bullets out of one and complained about all gun control opponents not knowing anything at least 20 times in this thread alone. It's about once per page.

[Edited on January 3, 2013 at 2:03 PM. Reason : ]

1/3/2013 1:53:27 PM

Quote :

" What? Are you suggesting that some blogger is having the exact same silly debate about needing semi-automatic assualt rifles to protect themselves gophers, with himself? I assure you I am not plagurizing, I apologize if my intellegence intimidates you so you must assume I copy my responses from someone else. I think it's fairly obvious that I couldn't copy and paste my arguments even if I wanted, no one else has been addressed with arguments as silly as these, so the responses to them must be solely my own. How does one even respond to such a strange accusation of plagurizism, heck, I even had a mistake in there where I lost my train of thought: "you should frame the gun control debate around keeping the guns that around keeping the guns that actually have a purpose"."

Okay Kris I believe you, and I am certain you are not plagiarizing. After all, what other blogger could possibly be thinking, "protect themselves gophers, with himself?"

Your intelligence has intimidated me so much today, in fact, that between you and dtownral I think us poor gun nuts are completely outclassed in this argument. Please take these writing and speaking skills to Washington and do your worst.

1/3/2013 1:58:02 PM

i never once said or even suggested that hunting was a reason to keep ARs legal.

some folks said there is no practical reason to own an AR. i disproved that. now you're trying to twist it around.

1/3/2013 1:58:24 PM

Quote :

" semi-automatic assualt rifles"

What the fuck is that?

Could you please define what you think an assault rifle is? Without the ability to fire in full auto or in burst fire there is nothing that makes a civilian version of an AR-15 an assault rifle. In fact there's very little that differentiates it from any other rifle aside from a few functional design differences.

If you want to roll technology back to nothing but bolt action rifles and single action revolvers... well, good luck. It's not happening, and it's not even a particularly good idea.

1/3/2013 2:00:57 PM

The way some of these guys talk you'd think there were only two kinds of people in the world:

1. Scarfed liberals munching kale who quiver with fear at the site of a mere Red Ryder B.B. gun

2. Responsible, respectable gun owners who have an encyclopedic knowledge of firearms, extensive training, and opposition to any gun control whatsoever.

There's actually a third (me):

3. People who grew up around guns, own guns, but to whom guns aren't a hobby in themselves. They want to preserve the right to self-defense with firearms but think some regulation of the more powerful and rapid-fire guns is a good idea. We're also the people who came up with hollow-point bans, and make up the majority of the NRA according to some polls.

[Edited on January 3, 2013 at 2:06 PM. Reason : ,]

1/3/2013 2:02:53 PM

Quote :

"You haven't named a single role that can't be done by something much cheaper once"

how much do you guys think these rifles cost?

Quote :

"They want to preserve the right to self-defense with firearms but think some regulation of the more powerful and rapid-fire guns is a good idea."

so contact your elected officials and suggest reasonable, effective control of those firearms. making hunters and competitive shooters register their semi-auto rifle like it's an NFA item, pay for a $200 tax stamp, obtain the blessing of a county LEO, and wait 6 months is not reasonable or effective.

[Edited on January 3, 2013 at 2:10 PM. Reason : asdf]

1/3/2013 2:03:25 PM

As long as we are clarifying that a literal assault rifle is not something that can be easily purchased in the US, can we also clarify that a coyote is not a dingo?

1/3/2013 2:06:58 PM

Neuse do you think you could make a post that isn't just you needling somebody either on terminology or some other minor point?

Like, I don't know, suggest what regulations in your opinion, if any, would be reasonable, helpful, but not reduce somebody's self-defense options beyond the point of making them unreasonably defenseless.

If you have a problem with a phrase someone is using, maybe you can help them find a phrase that better suits what they're trying to express, and not just using it as a means to try and shut people out of the debate. Doing that would go a long way to establishing that you're trying to be constructive here, and not just eager to snipe at people you perceive as your enemy.

[Edited on January 3, 2013 at 2:11 PM. Reason : .]

1/3/2013 2:08:16 PM

Oh heaven forbid needling in a debate!

You know, only one of the most important parts of debating.

Whose usefulness was illustrated fabulously by Kris and dtownral today who basically torpedoed you all by making your opinions appear...

...straight foolish.

[Edited on January 3, 2013 at 2:11 PM. Reason : !]

1/3/2013 2:11:22 PM

Quote :

"Like, I don't know, suggest what regulations in your opinion, if any, would be reasonable, helpful, but not reduce somebody's self-defense options beyond the point of making them unreasonably defenseless."

did this several pages ago

[Edited on January 3, 2013 at 2:13 PM. Reason : you suggested banning speedloaders for revolvers, among many other ridiculous things ]

1/3/2013 2:11:41 PM

Hollow point bans?

Is this a hypothetical that never happened? Or are you referring to military use?

1/3/2013 2:14:49 PM

Oh, were you the guy who suggested absolutely no regulation and instead we just arm more people?

Yeah, sorry, for some reason I didn't bother committing your name to memory after reading that.

1/3/2013 2:14:51 PM

The problem isn't necessarily phrasing, it's that a lot of people have no idea about what they are suggesting should be banned or regulated. When people call an AR-15 an assualt rifle it's clear they don't have a basic understanding of what is being discussed.

I honestly wouldn't take issue with high capacity magazines being banned. Anything over 12 rounds for handguns, anything in excess of 30 for rifles would be ok with me. I'm not sure how it would hold up in court but I'm personally ok with that.

I don't want guns that are capable of full auto to be easy to own, but I don't really see a reason to make them outright illegal. Federal registration, extensive background check, a waiting period of 30 days, some kind of annual tax... this would be fine with me.

1/3/2013 2:16:14 PM

^^Why stop there? Lets reboot this thread and dig much deeper...

Why do we feel the need to be armed in this country? Historical perspective allowed-

[Edited on January 3, 2013 at 2:17 PM. Reason : -_-]

1/3/2013 2:17:18 PM

Quote :

"Is this a hypothetical that never happened? Or are you referring to military use?"

There are a few countries (Like Canada) that allow firearms but ban hollow points, and in New Jersey they're restricted to at-home and to-and-from-the-range.

Quote :

"Stuff from Kurtis"

Okay that's what I was hoping for, thank you. This is a lot more productive than "People who use this term don't know what they're talking about so they should be quiet."

How about now actually explaining the terms "assault rifle" and "assault weapon" in a quick and easy way that satisfies you so they can be discussed.

[Edited on January 3, 2013 at 2:20 PM. Reason : .]

1/3/2013 2:18:05 PM

Lets try outright gun bans in LA, NY, Miami, DC, Atlanta, and Chicago then.

The brief coyote discussion highlighted an obvious disconnect between urban and rural folk.

Since you dont have to worry about the same things as NRR (or dont want to rather), then move to one of these safe zones! Is this a meaningful discussion?

Obviously ban all the ammo there too-

...and Sarin gas (oh it already is).

Maybe even entire New England states could get something like this done? Then you could return to the national debate with obviously infallible statistics right? Plenty of proof to get it done-

[Edited on January 3, 2013 at 2:25 PM. Reason : -]

1/3/2013 2:22:30 PM

An actual "assault rifle" is what they use in most branches of the military. Capable of selective fire (semi auto, burst, or automatic) or strictly being full auto or burst fire is pretty much the only thing outside of cosmetic, non functional stuff that can be used to define it. Beyond that, whether or not it has a bayonet mounting point and fsimilar things from the old AWB really don't make a bit of difference.

[Edited on January 3, 2013 at 2:25 PM. Reason : sffdds]

1/3/2013 2:24:21 PM

Quote :

"Oh, were you the guy who suggested absolutely no regulation and instead we just arm more people? Yeah, sorry, for some reason I didn't bother committing your name to memory after reading that."

no. i'm not going to go back and find it for you. please stop with the personal attacks. they distract from a constructive discussion of effective, reasonable gun regulation.

1/3/2013 2:25:39 PM

Do you think it's a good thing that sarin gas is banned, y0willy0?

[Edited on January 3, 2013 at 2:28 PM. Reason : .]

1/3/2013 2:26:19 PM

Quote :

"no. i'm not going to go back and find it for you. please stop with the personal attacks. they distract from a constructive discussion of effective, reasonable gun regulation."

My request that you tell me what you think effective, reasonable gun regulation would be is a distraction from discussion of effective, reasonable gun regulation.

Got it.


[Edited on January 3, 2013 at 2:28 PM. Reason : .]

1/3/2013 2:28:04 PM

What would I use sarin gas for?

1/3/2013 2:28:50 PM

Killing Kurds.

1/3/2013 2:29:22 PM

Quote :

"NeuseRvrRat MOLON LABE 27629 Posts user info edit post a national system similar to the NC CHP process i attend a meaningful, reasonably priced, easily accessible training course. upon completion of a background check, i am issued a firearm permit which allows me to purchase firearms. further training and permitting allows me a similar permit that allows the purchase of items covered under the National Firearms Act of 1934. tough penalties for those who fail to secure their firearms. i think this would be a very good start. what would you add? [Edited on December 17, 2012 at 2:00 PM. Reason : permit must be renewed for a reasonable fee every 5 years] [Edited on December 17, 2012 at 2:03 PM. Reason : training should include live fire exercises] 12/17/2012 1:59:26 PM "

1/3/2013 2:29:59 PM

Quote :

"What would I use sarin gas for?"

Killing varmints and coyotes, or defending your home from your panic room with backup oxygen supply.

1/3/2013 2:31:16 PM

How about the Japanese model for purchasing firearms?

Although I dont think they include penalties for not storing them adequately I would be in favor of that.

Oh I see; you're attempting humor by equating certain guns to sarin gas.

Since its illegal to use in warfare I assume you also equate it to hollowpoints.

Somehow I think sarin is on a whole other level, but considering you or one of your cohorts asked if private nuclear weapon ownership was okay then I guess this is the wrong "serious discussion" for me.



[Edited on January 3, 2013 at 2:34 PM. Reason : double standard]

1/3/2013 2:31:41 PM

Neuse I appreciate that, do you have any suggestions that relate to the general regulation of guns and not just concealed ones?

1/3/2013 2:32:30 PM

yes, i didn't make it clear in that post, but what i meant was a national system for firearms ownership similar to the NC system for obtaining a CHP

Quote :

"...i am issued a firearm permit which allows me to purchase firearms."

banning hollowpoints is just more of the "oh no, scary stuff. ban it." approach. all-lead cast bullets (the kind made by thousands upon thousands of shooters in their garage or bought from a number of retailers) expand just as good.

[Edited on January 3, 2013 at 2:39 PM. Reason : adfs]

1/3/2013 2:34:00 PM