Quote :

"And still waiting on someone to point out what I am wrong about."

Quote :

""I also said we would not be any better with all this great talent 2 seasons ago, check." To make cumulative statements about a season don't you think the season should be FINISHED???? You see no problem about not qualifying that statement and that is why you are almost universally derided. "

Quote :

" dear lord. getting desperate in the defense, now. "

dear lord.
having trouble keeping up with the rest of the class? Sarcasm people

[Edited on January 13, 2011 at 4:52 PM. Reason : asdfasd]

1/13/2011 4:50:20 PM

Quote :

"dear lord. getting desperate in the defense, now."

your sarcasm/trolling detector

its broken

1/13/2011 4:51:43 PM

i don't think lowe is a bad coach, as far as basketball goes honestly. the wisconsin game stands out as lowe being just flat out outcoached, but we've seen him put together very good games, and we've seen the team play a very potent offense at times.

but it's clear to me now that lowe has no idea how to motivate people to play for him. every game we lost it's b/c we come out sluggish and not ready to play. even when we're playing scrubs that we should, and do, kill, harrow looks in pain, leslie looks sad, tracy looks frustrated. very different from watch good teams blow out lesser competition.

1/13/2011 5:01:05 PM

Quote :

"your sarcasm/trolling detector its broken "

that's what i get for only reading the last page.

my mind is made up on the issue, so, that's as far back as i went.

[Edited on January 13, 2011 at 5:24 PM. Reason : .]

1/13/2011 5:22:41 PM

My mind is like this: I see enough talent in this freshman class where I'm going to at least wait for the season to end before I decide if I think Lowe should stay or go!

1/13/2011 5:24:52 PM

I see enough talent in the freshman class to know that if we got rid of Lowe and got a real coach that we would actually be able to accomplish something

1/13/2011 5:30:48 PM

Quote :

"Deciphering Vinny Del Negro's substitution patterns is like trying to figure out the lyrics to "Yellow Ledbetter.""

http://twitter.com/sportsguy33/status/25425974795436032

Must be something in the water

1/13/2011 5:32:21 PM

the problem is, Lowe brought the freshmen in

unless you think something like saying "Hey Sid, we're gonna bring in a new head coach. You're fired. But we want you to recruit!" would work

I dont

[Edited on January 13, 2011 at 5:33 PM. Reason : ^^]

1/13/2011 5:32:59 PM

I don't see any of the freshmen transferring because of Lowe getting the boot

And that's a terrible reason to keep a guy around anyway

[Edited on January 13, 2011 at 5:34 PM. Reason : I know that's not what you're saying there]

[Edited on January 13, 2011 at 5:34 PM. Reason : I don't hate Simmons, I just can't take him in more than very small doses]

1/13/2011 5:33:48 PM

I thought you hated Simmons

You're always knocking him

[Edited on January 13, 2011 at 5:34 PM. Reason : x]

1/13/2011 5:33:51 PM

Well anyone who's been paying attention the last 4.5 years knows we aren't making the tournament and that Lowe will be gone. To Sid's credit, there is no doubt in my mind that the man wanted to win here more than all of us combined. Nobody's ever questioned his passion.

There's maybe about 4 or 5 people who keep posting in this thread that are in serious denial and who I suspect are the type to "not ever back down from an argument" and "are never wrong", but rest assured, when they are honest with themselves they know deep in their hearts that Lowe isn't a good coach.

I'm glad we have an AD that won't put up with this, and I'm looking forward to seeing who she can land as a replacement.

Good day, gentlemen.

[Edited on January 13, 2011 at 5:34 PM. Reason : []

1/13/2011 5:34:20 PM

I'm one step ahead of you MilkBoner

I already know that our next coach will suck

I'm already coming up with a list of some candidates that will potentially be out of their contracts and looking for a new gig in the 2016-2017 season

Fuck the present, I'm living in the future duke

1/13/2011 5:35:56 PM

i'm pretty sure other coaches than sidney lowe are capable of coaching the players we have

and recruiting at the level he has

maybe not immediately, and maybe they won't ever land a leslie/harrow/brown haul. but the Wood/Howell/Painter/Lewis/Uchebo's of the world? Pretty sure as long you target a guy with anything resembling a personality we could maintain that. Add that surrounding cast to 1, yes just 1 star player and it should be capable of competing at the top of the ACC. Just look at Boston College. They have Reggie Jackson and a bunch of bit parts to go with a coach in year one.

[Edited on January 13, 2011 at 5:38 PM. Reason : i actually wouldnt be surprised if lowe is retained for year 6 w/o the NCAAT]

1/13/2011 5:37:23 PM

Quote :

"maybe not immediately, and maybe they won't ever land a leslie/harrow/brown haul"

so you arent willing to give Lowe another 2 months, but you're willing to give a new guy time, admitting he might never bring in a class this good?

1/13/2011 5:38:30 PM

Quote :

"but it's clear to me now that lowe has no idea how to motivate people to play for him. every game we lost it's b/c we come out sluggish and not ready to play. even when we're playing scrubs that we should, and do, kill, harrow looks in pain, leslie looks sad, tracy looks frustrated. very different from watch good teams blow out lesser competition. "

Spot on. It's frustrating because it is painfully obvious that we lack the passion of other teams. We're never as motivated as the other team and we can't hold our composure for 40 minutes. The X's and O's have to be perfect to overcome that in today's game.

1/13/2011 5:42:29 PM

Damn, missed that simonn post. That's why he's the ST champ.

Someone (Adam Gold?) wrote not too long ago about his NBA motivation style not translating to college (didn't work in the NBA either LOL). I know that sounds incredibly obvious, but it was a good piece and I wish I could find it.

1/13/2011 5:45:09 PM

Lowe can finish the year out. I never said otherwise and I think it would be idiotic to fire him today. My opinion on him is pretty much set, though. I've seen enough over the last 4 and a half years that the next 15 games would have to pretty damn special to change what I think

As for Lowe's recruiting...look, the players in this class are great. No denying that. But, look at it this way. Would you rather have Tracy Smith or JJ Hickson?

Brown and Leslie aren't going to be here for 4 years. If I had to guess, we get 3 years of Zo and 2 years of CJL which is a pretty decent return but if it's 2/1 how much does it really help?

I'll take NBA players any day. But you gotta do something with them. If there's a coach who can take fringe NBA players and a bunch of Scott Wood's and do better than we're doing, I'll take it. Even better, if you can get that coach for next year when we might still have Leslie and Brown, I think you have to make that move

1/13/2011 5:46:48 PM

Quote :

"(didn't work in the NBA either LOL)"

hahaha

1/13/2011 5:47:44 PM

Quote :

"If there's a coach who can take fringe NBA players and a bunch of Scott Wood's and do better than we're doing, I'll take it."

Sounds like a perfect description of Sendek to me...

1/13/2011 5:48:47 PM

I'm really not sure what we're arguing about anymore. I don't think anyone on here is saying Sid is a credible coach, some are just not ready to fire midseason/or would like to reevaluate after the Dance.

[Edited on January 13, 2011 at 5:50 PM. Reason : f]

1/13/2011 5:49:46 PM

Yep

Pretty much it's a couple dozen guys having a decent conversation and boozie showing up and arguing points that aren't being made by anyone

1/13/2011 5:51:29 PM

Is what we have now worse than the Sendek years? I'm not going to get on anyone's case who wanted him gone. The school gave him a decade, he leveled out and he's gone elsewhere and done worse than he was doing in his last years here. It's like the John Fox separation except Sendek never came close to a Super Bowl

Ideally, you want to think you can make a better hire than that. I'm sure when he left most of the fanbase thought we would and we ended up with Lowe. I think you go look for a Jay Wright or Billy Donavan before they became what they are. And if you end up falling short then you didn't hit your target, but we're probably still better off

[Edited on January 13, 2011 at 5:55 PM. Reason : ^this thread is a cesspool. boozie is a slightly more sane (or less obvious troll) counter to rally]

1/13/2011 5:54:02 PM

sendek is currently 1-3 in conference, so let's not put him on too high a perch here.

also he's a pedestrian coach at best. you have to at least try to find a good coach. we tried and failed, then gave lowe a shot (which he still may salvage mind you). that's fine, there's no shame in it. move on and try again if one doesn't work. but you cannot settle for absolutely marginal results year after year; there's no point in fielding a team if that's your philosophy. that's like buying $2 scratchoffs and just hoping to get your $2 back. if i buy a $2 scratchoff and get $2, i'm buying another fucking scratchoff until one gets enough money to buy a round of drinks. that's what a good coach is. a cheap lottery ticket that can buy drinks for all of your friends.

Quote :

"Yep Pretty much it's a couple dozen guys having a decent conversation and boozie showing up and arguing points that aren't being made by anyone"

please take note boozie.

[Edited on January 13, 2011 at 5:54 PM. Reason : please, mr. boozie?]

1/13/2011 5:54:14 PM

If you want a round of drinks, Bob Huggins may be your guy

[Edited on January 13, 2011 at 5:56 PM. Reason : Asked to recite the alphabet from the letter E through P, Huggins said, "E, F, G, H, I, K, L, N, Z"]

1/13/2011 5:55:41 PM

you know i would kill a man for huggy bear to be our coach.

1/13/2011 5:57:07 PM

Red sweatsuits in the house

1/13/2011 5:57:54 PM

Quote :

"also he's a pedestrian coach at best. you have to at least try to find a good coach. we tried and failed, then gave lowe a shot (which he still may salvage mind you). that's fine, there's no shame in it. move on and try again if one doesn't work. but you cannot settle for absolutely marginal results year after year; there's no point in fielding a team if that's your philosophy. that's like buying $2 scratchoffs and just hoping to get your $2 back. if i buy a $2 scratchoff and get $2, i'm buying another fucking scratchoff until one gets enough money to buy a round of drinks. that's what a good coach is. a cheap lottery ticket that can buy drinks for all of your friends."

i completely agree with this philosophy and again, i have no problem with sendek's departure. even with what happened as a result of it I think it was a good move. if you dont try to be great you never will

[Edited on January 13, 2011 at 6:01 PM. Reason : also fwiw re: this year's freshman class: it's only super sick because lorenzo got reclassed]

1/13/2011 5:57:59 PM

also bill simmons' podcast is great, provided he doesn't have a lame guest on.

1/13/2011 6:01:27 PM

Simmons' voice is more effeminate than Harrow's

1/13/2011 6:03:35 PM

that's true, but i feel like he actually watches more sports than i do, unlike a lot of people at ESPN.

1/13/2011 6:05:10 PM

Wonder what the fellas are up to today in practice? Learning to do the dougie?

1/13/2011 6:37:46 PM

apparently the bernie is where its at

1/13/2011 6:56:18 PM

they probably sat around reading TWW.

i love this thread by the way. when i get home from work and have a couple pages to catch up on it's just tops. many lols to be had in the last few pages.

thank you boozie.

1/13/2011 8:15:14 PM

we are making the dance this year.

mark it down and call me out later.

1/13/2011 8:36:12 PM

Quote :

"The guy had never recruited anyone in his entire life and within five years he's pulling in monster talent You guys will bitch about anything "

I didn't say "WHY DIDN'T SID PULL A 5 STAR PG HIS FIRST YEAR?"
I said it's his fault we haven't had a PG who is capable of running an offense for 4 years. There are division III teams with PG's who are better than gonzalez/mays.

1/13/2011 8:57:46 PM

Quote :

"this year's freshman class: it's only super sick because lorenzo got reclassed"

I thought I remembered something about Lorenzo Brown not counting towards this years class ranking because he counted towards last years (it was something really strange of course I could be completely off base too)

1/13/2011 9:19:50 PM

Quote :

"boozie is a slightly more sane (or less obvious troll) counter to rally"

Quote :

"thank you boozie."

Your welcome. I mean what else is there to do between games and slacking off on the job?

[Edited on January 13, 2011 at 9:33 PM. Reason : ....the sadness of NCSU]

1/13/2011 9:33:16 PM

Learning english should top your list

1/13/2011 10:09:22 PM

Quote :

"I thought I remembered something about Lorenzo Brown not counting towards this years class ranking because he counted towards last years (it was something really strange of course I could be completely off base too)"

Brown counted in this years class, that's a big reason why we were up around #7. A 2 man class wouldn't have us that high.

Where Brown wasn't counted was in the individual player rankings. I think they just used his ranking at SG from last year. I'm noot entirely sure how they adjusted for that part of the rankings.

1/13/2011 10:13:28 PM

That makes way more sense thx

[Edited on January 13, 2011 at 10:43 PM. Reason : Gghffj]

1/13/2011 10:42:30 PM

God I hope state loses @fsu and at home against duke, then ill have so much firepower in this thread.

/packboozie and haters


Hey motherfuckers, you better hope we don't win one of these next two games. Because if we do you're going to look like a stupid fuck AGAIN.


From now on I'm posting in the rally thread.

There isn't one person in this thread under 190 lbs that can beat me up, I watch ufc

Eat a dick liberals and faggots, you lose again

1/13/2011 11:09:28 PM

LOL your trolling is reaching an all-time Lowe.

Quote :

"Learning english should top your list"

Damn I wrote your instead of you're fuck me running! What grade do I get? Is that 5 points off?

[Edited on January 14, 2011 at 12:10 AM. Reason : I'm wearing FSU war paint and buying Duke shirts!]

1/14/2011 12:09:14 AM

Quote :

" I think they just used his ranking at SG from last year. I'm noot entirely sure how they adjusted for that part of the rankings. "

I think that if you see Zo's scout profile with a ranking beside of it, it's an old profile.

IIRC, what they do is label prep school kids as "Ranking: PG" for 'previously graded'. They still get a star ranking (Zo was a 5), but he isn't individually ranked among the other shooting guards of the 2010 class.

That's how I understand it, at least.

If you do a google search, half of the Zo profiles will say "#6 SG" and the other half will say "PG". The PG ones are the updated ones I believe....and like you said, Zo's star count did count in last year's class. His 'star points' or whatever counted in both the 2009 and 2010 classes

FWIW, Zo would have been much higher in last years class according to recruiting guys at Scout. The 2009 class (Where Zo was the #6 SG) was loaded...much moreso than the 2010 class.

[Edited on January 14, 2011 at 12:21 AM. Reason : ]

1/14/2011 12:15:07 AM

Quote :

"There isn't one person in this thread under 190 lbs that can beat me up, I watch ufc Eat a dick liberals and faggots, you lose again"

Rally exposed?

1/14/2011 8:38:27 AM

re: Zo's recruiting starrrrrrrrrrssssssss

he was originally a 5 star SG on scout and a 4 star PG on rivals. Around the time he committed to State he was dropped just outside 5 star status on scout and i believe became a higher 4 star on rivals. During his PG at Hargrave a lot of people (Like Dave Telep I believe) thought he was arguably either the #1 or #2 SG in the 2010 class if you were to include him there.

Quote :

"I said it's his fault we haven't had a PG who is capable of running an offense for 4 years."

This is a touchy subject. Chris Wright could have very easily been in State uniform right now. I won't fault Lowe one bit for not landing him. Landing another top flight PG? That takes time, and around the 2009 class was his first real shot at a top flight PG considering the time it typically takes to establish a good relationship with the recruits. He lands Lo Brown, who can play PG in the ACC if he plays smart, and NC State shit kept him from enrolling. Before then he missed on a couple guys, including a player many of pack fans seem to think is a savior but is really isn't that great of a player in Chris Warren.

Degand probably could have been better than he was had he not gotten hurt. At times he looked like a serviceable player. Javi not developing any kind of consistency is probably on him not Lowe.

Quote :

"i don't think lowe is a bad coach, as far as basketball goes honestly. the wisconsin game stands out as lowe being just flat out outcoached, but we've seen him put together very good games, and we've seen the team play a very potent offense at times. but it's clear to me now that lowe has no idea how to motivate people to play for him. every game we lost it's b/c we come out sluggish and not ready to play. even when we're playing scrubs that we should, and do, kill, harrow looks in pain, leslie looks sad, tracy looks frustrated. very different from watch good teams blow out lesser competition."

I'd say overall that's a pretty fair assessment. When it comes to basketball knowledge, the x's and o's, and drawing up plays and all that, Lowe knows the game as good as anyone in the country which is one of the reasons why the NBA thinks so highly of him.

Motivating players is a big part of the game, and it seems like it might be one of his weaknesses. Some of the burden for motivation is definitely on the players themselves, however other coaches seem to be doing a better job in the motivation aspect of coaching. When our team plays motivated we end up playing well on defense, getting out in transition, making good shots, rebounding well, etc. When we aren't, we look lazy and terrible.

1/14/2011 8:57:33 AM

So just a hypothetical situation that I am throwing out here for the Lowe critics. If we were to just barely miss the NCAA tournament (go 9-7 in the ACC this year and get to the ACC title game for example) how would you feel about retaining Lowe for one more year and replacing Towe with someone who is known for being a great defensive coach or motivator?

1/14/2011 9:31:26 AM

The common denominator the last 15 years is Larry Harris. He's the real person to blame. Let's sack the aquaman.

1/14/2011 9:40:07 AM

Here's a better hypothetical.... IF he makes the tournament (in bizarro fantasy land world) in a VERY down ACC would that be enough to instill faith that he's the coach to have us competing at the highest levels in the future? Would that automatically make him our guy.

That would be a big FAT NO for me.

[Edited on January 14, 2011 at 9:59 AM. Reason : preparing myself to be flamed by all the basketball geniuses]]

1/14/2011 9:40:48 AM

Quote :

"(go 9-7 in the ACC this year and get to the ACC title game for example"

That would definitely get him into the NCAA tourney.

But seriously, looking ahead to the rest of the season:

3 games I'll consider gimmes:
@WF
GT
@UVA

Home games we'll probably win:
Miami
VT
Clemson

Other games we have a decent shot at in order of how likely we could win IMO:
FSU
@FSU
UNC
@Clemson
Duke
@UNC

Games we'll almost certainly lose:
@MD
@Duke

Probably end up doing something like going 3-0 in that first set, 2-1 in the next, 3-3, then 0-2
9-7

1/14/2011 10:00:38 AM

^^ and you just keep milking boozie's boner. If he gets into the NCAA on the back of T. Smith and 3 freshman that is a pretty impressive accomplishment especially when T. Smith was out for basically the entire non conference schedule.

9-7 without any meaningful non conference wins probably won't get us in the NCAA unless 9-7 puts us second or third in the conference and one of those wins is against Duke.

1/14/2011 10:23:46 AM