yep, unless you go subsonic w/ a can, it's .30-30 in an AR

9/24/2013 10:30:31 PM

but perhaps eleusis suppresses his HD .300 blackout. i can see an advantage there. gunshots indoors are gonna ring your bell for sure.

9/24/2013 10:32:11 PM

I do plan on shooting it subsonic and suppressed, but not for home defense. the subsonics will penetrate worse than supersonic because they never get that sonic shockwave that causes them to become unstable during flight. they just keep on penetrating. You can buy frangible subsonic rounds, but they're almost $2 a round.

supersonic 300 blackout has a lot more knockdown power at shorter urban engagement ranges than 5.56, and a simple magazine change can take you from hard hitting supersonic ammo to a quiet subsonic round.

9/24/2013 10:33:54 PM

I would leave the gun as an SBR without the suppressor for home defense. I want the fireball to cauterize the fresh wound

9/24/2013 10:35:29 PM

^^ who gives a shit about a few dollars if that's what you need?

it's not like you're gonna go blow through thousands of them at the range? If a magazine or two of the frangible stuff costs you an extra $20 or $50 or whatever, that's a negligible price to pay if frangible is what you need.

[Edited on September 24, 2013 at 10:39 PM. Reason : i'd go SPC or Grendel unless I wanted to suppress it.]

9/24/2013 10:38:47 PM

"knockdown power" is a myth

but, yes, .300 blackout obviously has more kinetic energy. i don't believe the juice is worth the squeeze for home defense.

[Edited on September 24, 2013 at 10:43 PM. Reason : it's just gonna blow on through a human and keep getting it]

9/24/2013 10:42:33 PM

this discussion has occurred so many times online i don't even know why it still shows up. everyone just goes right back to their camp.

i mean, i get it. .300 blackout sounds cool. everyone has a .223 and some folks want to stand out. some folks need to think that it has a practical use in home defense to talk themselves into buying it. that's cool. i used to try to come up with something more than "it's cool and i want it" when i bought a gun, too. now i just buy whatever i want. some guns have practical uses. others are just fun to shoot at the range and that's ok.

9/24/2013 10:50:29 PM

^^hence my consideration for .44 magnum. You're capped in velocity if you want to quietly shoot suppressed (and I don't see any other purpose for .300 BLK), so you might as well sling heavier bullets and punch wider holes.

[Edited on September 24, 2013 at 10:52 PM. Reason : ^ even then, I'd settle on some other weirdass newfangled AR caliber unless I was going suppressed. ]

but whatever. I'd prefer other things and I have practical reasons, but I could kill the shit out of a person or animal with .300 BLK just about as well as anything, I suppose.

[Edited on September 24, 2013 at 10:55 PM. Reason : ]

9/24/2013 10:50:51 PM

for me it'd be .243 WSSM

[Edited on September 24, 2013 at 10:55 PM. Reason : or 6.5. i've fallen in love with the six and a halfs since i got my swedish mauser]

but i'm currently waiting on a 1943 Rock-Ola mixmaster M1 Carbine to arrive from Ohio, so i won't be buying anything else soon.

[Edited on September 24, 2013 at 10:57 PM. Reason : except some brass and bullets for the carbine]

9/24/2013 10:54:26 PM

A WSSM or Grendel would be my choice for a hunting AR in many cases, and maybe for a paper-killer rifle. I'd never trade the magazine capacity for the velocity for home defense purposes, though.

[Edited on September 24, 2013 at 11:00 PM. Reason : ^ yeah great minds think alike]

[Edited on September 24, 2013 at 11:00 PM. Reason : i'm gonna stockpile ammo like a fucking prepper once i'm convinced prices have bottomed]

9/24/2013 10:59:45 PM

no, of course not for HD

[Edited on September 24, 2013 at 11:01 PM. Reason : d]

reloading component prices are back to normal. kinda hard to find powder, but everything else is easy to find. powder is showing up more and more. when you do find it online it's at normal prices.

[Edited on September 24, 2013 at 11:05 PM. Reason : SDv]

9/24/2013 11:01:07 PM

I can't wait to put some glass and a bipod on my Savage 12-LRP. I'm not in any big hurry, though, until 6.5 Creedmoor match ammo becomes easier to find. I'm about to drop a shitload of money on solar panels for my house and an old truck restoration, too...once I get the rebate/tax credit money back on the solar, I'll be fine, though...maybe by then the ammo crunch will ease some more.

9/24/2013 11:07:04 PM

i still don't understand why you don't reload for that thing

9/24/2013 11:12:08 PM

because i don't reload at all and already have too many hobbies. apparently it pretty much whoops ass with hornady match factory loads. never say never, but i'm going to just shoot those to start with.

9/24/2013 11:18:31 PM

it's not that time-consuming unless you go full retard with it.

i went full retard with it.

[Edited on September 24, 2013 at 11:21 PM. Reason : but i don't really have any hobbies beyond shooting/reloading and fishing]

[Edited on September 24, 2013 at 11:28 PM. Reason : and grilling, but we all gotta eat ]

9/24/2013 11:21:03 PM

a suppressor with a big enough hole at the end to let a 44 bullet through is going to be a lot louder than a can with a hole big enough for a 30 caliber projectile. I've seen plenty of write-ups on 45-70 subsonic suppressed and 510 whisper, but I've never heard them referred to as quiet. The suppressed 45 that the British used during WWII was quiet, but the can on that gun was monstrous. Suppressed handguns are barely hearing safe, while suppressed subsonic 300blk through a bolt-action sounds like a pellet gun.

I have thought about a Form 1 homemade internally suppressed 45-70 as nothing more than a range toy, with an extremely oversized can to make it as quiet as possible. It wouldn't have any practical purpose other than to punch holes in paper and enjoy the "WTF" expressions of other range goers.

The problem with a $2 a round frangible bullet is that I'd want to run a couple hundred of them through my gun at the range to make sure they feed reliably. now you're talking about adding a $500 price tag for ammunition that still doesn't do as much damage as a supersonic round.

9/24/2013 11:39:56 PM

Unrelated to any HD discussions, a suppressed Mare's Leg .357 would be a lot of fun

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXc0rm6dzVs

9/24/2013 11:46:06 PM

Also unrelated, shot a Mossberg MVP .223 suppressed and that thing was sweet. Bolt gun that takes AR mags and is ridiculously quiet with subsonic ammo. If I ever get my trust I will pick one up just because.

9/25/2013 8:16:42 AM

Sub sonic .223 just seems like the most useless round ever.

Shoot an intruder and they giggle and say "stop it tickles!!"

9/25/2013 9:16:36 AM

Who said anything about using it for intruders?

9/25/2013 9:54:42 AM

At short distances, I see no problem with subsonic .223.

9/25/2013 10:27:57 AM

True... My thought is "just 170ft-lbs?? What would that be good for?"

I'd rather have a silenced 9 or .45 or .300 whisper or damned near anything else.

9/25/2013 10:44:42 AM

might as well be shooting 60gr 22LR - at least that will cycle the action of most semi-autos.

9/25/2013 10:56:10 AM

it'd be about like stabbing someone with an icepick repeatedly

9/25/2013 1:16:49 PM

^ which is pretty much the effectiveness of all smaller handgun calibers

[Edited on September 25, 2013 at 1:21 PM. Reason : pequeño]

9/25/2013 1:20:00 PM

I would venture to say that if you have time to grab a weapon in a home defense situation, you have time to throw in a pair of surefire ear plugs or Peltor electronics.

Having shot high velocity rounds in enclosed spaces (and more than a couple of times) I can guarantee it's quite unpleasant.

9/25/2013 3:43:56 PM

Quote :

"Shoot an intruder and they giggle and say "stop it tickles!!""

Then perhaps you'd like to volunteer your body in the name of science so we can see how sarcastic your statement is?

[Edited on September 25, 2013 at 9:12 PM. Reason : ,]

9/25/2013 9:12:24 PM

Well, I mean, I don't rely on .22 shorts for home defense, but I'm not about to let you shoot me with one.

9/25/2013 9:49:13 PM

22 shorts are fun. i shoot them at the lake (on property) and the neighbors can barely tell.

btw anyone have a spare mil spec buffer tube for AR? (ill take a buffertube/stock combo as well).
im talkin' cheap.

[Edited on September 25, 2013 at 11:13 PM. Reason : ]

9/25/2013 10:44:47 PM

OMG. i dont know what to say about this. lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMMs5e0Cd6c

try and watch their other vids. they have an AR and AK vid


"and we ri... and we rich bitch"

9/25/2013 11:37:23 PM

Quote :

"I would venture to say that if you have time to grab a weapon in a home defense situation, you have time to throw in a pair of surefire ear plugs or Peltor electronics. Having shot high velocity rounds in enclosed spaces (and more than a couple of times) I can guarantee it's quite unpleasant."

...Life or death situation, when it's go-time the last thing on my mind will be thinking about hearing protection.


(FTR, I too have heard a standard round shot off in an enclosure)

9/26/2013 7:46:01 AM

If you were thinking 223 for home defense, the Federal Fusion line offers a great cartridge for a good price.

The Fusion line uses the same soft point projectile used in the Speer Gold Dot cartridge and it works really well. They are bonded, so that is something to think about. They do well in barrier penetration tests, but if you are concerned with overpentration, can't help you there.

I have run a few mags of the 223 and 308 and it's quite nice.

You can find them as the regular Fusion or Fusion MSR variety.

Either way, they are one two notches under the Gold Medal Match in regards to accuracy, but it seems like a winner to me (for most situations).

[Edited on September 26, 2013 at 11:58 AM. Reason : More uninformed opinions from me.]

9/26/2013 11:55:37 AM

I don't want to keep my ARs out of the safe for HD purposes because I would be pissed if they got stolen (already had a break in and a pistol stolen). Now I just leave out my 870 20ga youth model I hunted with back in the day. That way the wife can handle it and I am plenty confident about its ability to protect my life.

I would love to keep a gun in my car too but I am worried it will get stolen as well and the last thing I want is another gun on the black market. Wish I could fab a safe in my car with the finger combination deal but I don't have any room for that except maybe if I completely redid the rear center flip down console. Now that I think about it, that would be pretty badass.

9/26/2013 12:15:10 PM

Hornady 75gr if you're wanting a good 5.56 for live tissue targets. I believe they sell it as the TAP round.

9/26/2013 3:04:36 PM

5.56 75GR TAP is some good stuff.

9/26/2013 3:43:44 PM

You can get one of the small lock boxes that cables to a rigid mount in the car. 3 dial combo locks.

9/26/2013 4:09:24 PM

I have one that you use a key with, problem is how long it would take to get in a situation where you would really need it.

9/26/2013 4:20:03 PM

.223 wssm sub sonic... Lol

That's what I feel like .223 is vs .22 lr

9/26/2013 6:43:53 PM

30-06 loaded with trail boss

9/26/2013 9:57:29 PM

Still looking for a black or FDE MOE mil-spec stock

Have plenty of 9mm / 5.56 / 22LR to trade for it

9/27/2013 1:40:06 AM

Friends of the NRA, Durham Pistol and Rifle Club:
Machine gun and suppressor shoot.
Tomorrow.
$25 entry, then pay for ammo, or bring your own factory brass.

9/27/2013 7:03:52 PM

http://www.fxairguns.com/rifle/the-verminator-mkll-extreme/

If only they'd knock a zero off the price tag...

9/28/2013 2:42:46 PM

Stupid crap......

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y245/JDriver18t/b0ee0760b01965d659c3b0ef88c7b985_zpscf608666.mp4

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y245/JDriver18t/0abb6cd75fbd8c813b8b13342783c5ae_zpse057b27c.mp4

[Edited on September 29, 2013 at 10:21 AM. Reason : .]

9/29/2013 10:17:38 AM

meh, once the novelty wears off it's just expensive


got to the range today and was excited to see that i had the whole place to myself. there are two tables that are cemented into the ground. one lines up best with the 100 yd berm and the other is usually for folks going to 200 or the max of 280. i picked the one better suited for the 100 yd berm and got my chronograph about halfway setup when some jackass with a 50 cal comes and sets up on the 200/280 bench right next to me. "uh, i hope you got some good earplugs. this thing is kinda loud."

why would you even waste ammo out of that damn thing at 280 yds? money>sense

i ended up moving to one of the crappy benches at the other end of the 100 yd berm. saw a bee flying near me drop dead from the percussion off the 50 cal.

[Edited on September 29, 2013 at 4:40 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on September 29, 2013 at 4:43 PM. Reason : fucking Little Man Syndrome]

9/29/2013 4:38:12 PM

I was very impressed with the accuracy on full auto.
That was an 18" square at 30 yards. I know, nothing really difficult, but I kept that plate ringing.

9/29/2013 4:49:13 PM

Machine Gun Theory and Employment aside,

Full-auto in a sub or carbine length package has limited operational application,

But it can be goddamn fun yet prohibitively expensive.

[Edited on September 29, 2013 at 5:30 PM. Reason : I think I won useless statement of the year award...]

9/29/2013 5:29:57 PM

Quote :

"saw a bee flying near me drop dead from the percussion off the 50 cal"

pretty sweet

I once cleared a bunch of red clay from our shooting station (no roof) using my mosin's pressure wave. It worked perfectly.

9/29/2013 7:00:26 PM

hey hkrock, you ever get your hands on an MP7 in your line of work?

[Edited on September 29, 2013 at 11:19 PM. Reason : .]

9/29/2013 11:19:39 PM

They are available in my unit, but not down at team level.

Have only shot the MP5 and suppressed package. I would imagine the MP7 to be another marvel of HK engineering.

9/30/2013 9:30:01 AM

does anyone on here shoot sporting clays regularly? I've shot quite a few times over the years, but have been going roughly once a month or so to shoot at a place called The Fork.

just curious if there are any other SC fans on here. If so, what do you usually shoot with? Gauge and model? Right now I shoot my Ruger Red Label O/U 12g. I usually average about 70%.

9/30/2013 9:38:03 AM