dl once and store it locally.

Though MS is pushing DL once, store locally, and expire.

12/5/2007 3:13:17 PM

There are a couple problems with downloading all your content. For one, people like to own shit. They like to have big impressive collections they can jack off too with their friends. The other problem is reliable storage. Right now, hard drives are the best we got. Well, hard drives suck shit and prone to failure. For storing stuff I didn't pay for, they are fine. But the idea of having terabytes of data representing movies that cost $20-$30 a piece isn't as appealing.

Let's say that hard drive dies, and you don't have a backup. Well, you're pretty much fucked and have to start downloading it all again at 600kb/s (if the content is still available). I don't want to have to maintain a redundant array of storage devices just to be able to reliably have access to my movie collection that I paid good money for. So until everyone has 40Mbps lines or we have cheap reliable storage, I don't see many people jumping on the "download all your HD movies" bandwagon.

12/5/2007 3:22:03 PM

its an awesome idea for rental but not purchase. but like shrike said, sucks downloading hd content on cable/DSL

12/5/2007 3:25:33 PM

I disagree. DRM right now is broken and the online scene doesn't seem very enticing but I think in the future systems will keep track of what you've bought and allow you to redownload them if your local copy is corrupted or failed.

Not to mention, storage will be much larger and much more reliable.

It would also be easier to push format updates to client systems without forcing consumers to buy new, expensive players. Take one of our friend's collection, for instance, and how it seamlessly works with the 360. Imagine if you could do that with legal downloads. There'd be no reason to dedicate physical space for junk.

Also, bandwidth five years from now should effectively be double what we have now.


[Edited on December 5, 2007 at 3:26 PM. Reason : >.<]

12/5/2007 3:26:25 PM

Yea, might as well throw that idea out the window since we are stuck with 5mbps for eternity

[Edited on December 5, 2007 at 3:28 PM. Reason : beat me to it]

12/5/2007 3:27:49 PM

Well 5 years from now is 5 years now. HD displays are about to hit critical mass and people are going to want the content now. I think disc media still has a good 10 years left before we go 100% digital. I mean, look at games. Steam has been up and running for 3 years now and people still insist on getting boxes from the assholes at EB Games. Gamers are probably the earliest adopters there are when it comes to new technologies, and they haven't even embraced (legal) digital distribution yet.

And I also feel that just like game publishers, a lot of the big movie studios will become very resistant to digital distribution. Just like how Valve broke up with Sierra, once some director with deep pockets realizes he can make, market, and distribute a movie all by himself, without any help from the likes of Warner/Universal/Paramount etc....., the shit will hit the fan.

[Edited on December 5, 2007 at 3:54 PM. Reason : :]

12/5/2007 3:45:44 PM

Quote :

"Yea, might as well throw that idea out the window since we are stuck with 5mbps for eternity"

might as well throw you out of the window since we are stuck with an incompetent moron now.

12/5/2007 4:00:22 PM

^named Golovko.

12/5/2007 4:19:12 PM

man lets talk about hd stuff yo, i need more info on this stuff

12/5/2007 4:23:42 PM

So which do you guys think we'll see first:

Mass adoption of download-only HD media

OR

The hoverboard from Back to the Future 2

??

12/5/2007 4:30:28 PM

Quote :

"Steam has been up and running for 3 years now and people still insist on getting boxes from the assholes at EB Games. Gamers are probably the earliest adopters there are when it comes to new technologies, and they haven't even embraced (legal) digital distribution yet."

Dude, I know you love Steam and everything and I know it's gotten better, but it's got a long way to go before it fully ditches the "Holy shit, Steam is terrible" taste it put in everyone's mouths when it first came around. They may be the earliest adopters, but they're also the harshest critics.

Quote :

"For one, people like to own shit. They like to have big impressive collections they can jack off too with their friends."

Apple begs to differ. They've certainly shown there's clear precedent that people will buy things even if they don't have anything physically to show for it. Also, as cool as people will find showing off their collections I'm sure an equal number of people will find not swapping discs and a movie catalog at their fingertips much more worthwhile.

12/5/2007 4:37:08 PM

dlc ftw

12/5/2007 4:40:34 PM

Quote :

" So which do you guys think we'll see first: Mass adoption of download-only HD media OR The hoverboard from Back to the Future 2 "

iTune Store has been around for how long?

12/5/2007 4:58:34 PM

Quote :

"Dude, I know you love Steam and everything and I know it's gotten better, but it's got a long way to go before it fully ditches the "Holy shit, Steam is terrible" taste it put in everyone's mouths when it first came around."

Couldn't be more wrong. Steam is untouchable right now and no one cares that some beta 5 years used to crash your PC. It isn't perfect but is far and away the best system for digital game delivery there is. I read far more complaints about disc based copy protection than anything about Steam. It's just that people like to have boxes and paper manuals. That's the only reason it's not more popular than it is.

Quote :

"Apple begs to differ. They've certainly shown there's clear precedent that people will buy things even if they don't have anything physically to show for it."

Apple has shown that people are willing to pay 99 cents to have their favorites songs on the go. They haven't killed or replaced CDs nor will they for a very long time. People still have huge CD collections. Also, how long have we been downloading songs? Downloading movies is still in it's infant stages and it's going to take at least as long to mature as it did to get from Napster to iTunes Music store.

12/5/2007 4:59:36 PM

Quote :

"Couldn't be more wrong. Steam is untouchable right now and no one cares that some beta 5 years used to crash your PC. It isn't perfect but is far and away the best system for digital game delivery there is. I read far more complaints about disc based copy protection than anything about Steam. It's just that people like to have boxes and paper manuals. That's the only reason it's not more popular than it is."

There's really no proof either way as to why it's not more popular that it is, so us going back and forth on this is really pointless.

Quote :

"Apple has shown that people are willing to pay 99 cents to have their favorites songs on the go. They haven't killed or replaced CDs nor will they for a very long time. People still have huge CD collections. Also, how long have we been downloading songs? Downloading movies is still in it's infant stages and it's going to take at least as long to mature as it did to get from Napster to iTunes Music store."

No one's saying it's going to happen tomorrow. The point is that there's already a very successful, very prominent company that is successful selling protected content that people own without providing them anything physical.

12/5/2007 5:28:57 PM

all joking aside, I do actually believe that the future will be primarily online downloads.

BUT

you're kidding yourself if you think that'll be a reality in the next 5 years. So it's not really a viable replacement for HD-DVD or Blu-Ray as someone stated earlier in thread.

12/5/2007 6:13:17 PM

when terabyte sized hard drives become standard thats when i believe that dlc with overtake it.

12/5/2007 7:11:17 PM

i'd only do online downloads if i could burn a copy

12/5/2007 7:16:11 PM

Woot! Blade Runner FINAL CUT HDDVD

12/5/2007 8:51:21 PM

Quote :

"you're kidding yourself if you think that'll be a reality in the next 5 years. So it's not really a viable replacement for HD-DVD or Blu-Ray as someone stated earlier in thread. "

Are you joking?

iTunes came out roughly 6 years ago and it's the default online music store now.

12/5/2007 9:53:18 PM

Quote :

"Couldn't be more wrong. Steam is untouchable right now and no one cares that some beta 5 years used to crash your PC. It isn't perfect but is far and away the best system for digital game delivery there is. I read far more complaints about disc based copy protection than anything about Steam. It's just that people like to have boxes and paper manuals. That's the only reason it's not more popular than it is."

places like EBgames now sell a lot of their PC games online through their website. Also i've bought games through direct2drive.com many times. I think its a brilliant idea but still in its infant stages.

As someone stated earlier. Steam has left a horrible taste in peoples mouths from earlier. It still has room for improvement.

12/5/2007 11:26:13 PM

^^stop comparing iTunes to HD movie downloads. You're talking about Gigabytes of data vs 2-3 MB. Not even in the same league. Broadband is just now becoming "standard", I don't think the general public is going to be switching to FIOS or a T3 anytime soon. The internet is "fast enough" for the vast majority of them. Not to mention the infrastructure is nowhere NEAR being there. And the storage also has to catch up. And DRM technology has to catch up. AND content-owning companies have to get their heads out of their asses.

It ain't happening anytime soon, face it.

12/6/2007 8:03:52 AM

I think you're greatly underestimating the speed at which technology improves. Storage space, especially, won't be in an issue. Not to mention doesn't something like this already exist? Last I checked you could watch HD movies on demand via your digital cable box. There's obviously some kind of baseline here, it's just an issue of scale and it's silly to go "nope, no way, no how, not possible".

Also, I swear people have been saying broadband has been becoming "standard" for about 3 years now.

12/6/2007 8:25:01 AM

"Make love not war?"

12/6/2007 9:05:05 AM

Quote :

"^^stop comparing iTunes to HD movie downloads. You're talking about Gigabytes of data vs 2-3 MB. Not even in the same league. Broadband is just now becoming "standard", I don't think the general public is going to be switching to FIOS or a T3 anytime soon. The internet is "fast enough" for the vast majority of them. Not to mention the infrastructure is nowhere NEAR being there. And the storage also has to catch up. And DRM technology has to catch up. AND content-owning companies have to get their heads out of their asses. It ain't happening anytime soon, face it."

2-3mb??? songs aren't even that small. Not to mention tv shows and movies on iTunes. we're talking 500mb - 1gb.

^^stein, don't forget Xbox Live Marketplace. Plenty of new releases and old classics are available on there in HD and SD

The order in which I rent movies are now Xbox Live, if its not on there then netflix.

[Edited on December 6, 2007 at 9:27 AM. Reason : asdf]

12/6/2007 9:25:54 AM

yeah... last I checked shitty quality iTunes 240*320 movies were considerably smaller than 1080p movies. Isn't that what we were talking about? Oh yes, it was.

You're trying to argue that because TV shows have had some *relative* success on iTunes it means reference quality HD will be downloadable on a wide scale soon. Actually, you're saying that it will be the preferred method of delivery...

Sorry, but I just don't see the connection.

And I don't think some nerds downloading movies + shows on Xbox Live are going to jump start the switch to download-only.

Quote :

"Also, I swear people have been saying broadband has been becoming "standard" for about 3 years now."

That's because only a little over 50% of households currently have broadband. How can the download-only HD media reach the masses when half of them don't even have the means to download a trailer right now?

[Edited on December 6, 2007 at 9:56 AM. Reason : d]

12/6/2007 9:52:46 AM

You seem to think 5 years is "soon", which at the rate that technology matures, is idiotic. How you can say there's no way it'd be possible within 5 years (especially citing infrastructure) when there are already services like this that exist is assinine.

Citing storage concerns is even dumber since 5 years ago, people were just starting to be able to burn single layer DVDs. Now people can burn a Blu-ray disc that's holds over 10 times as much data. Not to mention the absolute rock bottom price per GB currently available with hard drives.

You can say "hurr, only 50% of houses have broadband to begin with", but I'd imagine even fewer houses have HDTVs. I'm going to go out on a limb and say there's a lot of overlap between those two groups as well.

12/6/2007 10:15:50 AM

Quote :

"yeah... last I checked shitty quality iTunes 240*320 movies were considerably smaller than 1080p movies. Isn't that what we were talking about? Oh yes, it was."

A) I didn't say it was HD.
B) its 640x480 NOT 240x320
C) its a solid place to start at. It works for Apple it will work for others. Netflix already has 'rent it now' movies. and again not to mention Xbox LIVE rents HD content both tv shows and movies over the internet.

Quote :

"You're trying to argue that because TV shows have had some *relative* success on iTunes it means reference quality HD will be downloadable on a wide scale soon. Actually, you're saying that it will be the preferred method of delivery..."

reading comprehension 101. I didn't say it will be in a wide scale soon. I Said the ground for it is already laid out and has had great success.

Quote :

"And I don't think some nerds downloading movies + shows on Xbox Live are going to jump start the switch to download-only. "

I don't think some nerds buying PS3's are going to decide which HD format wins the war

[Edited on December 6, 2007 at 10:29 AM. Reason : .]

12/6/2007 10:25:55 AM

yeah as soon as xbox live makes unlimited tv/movie downloads part of the annual and or monthly fee
or if netflix does it (being that many laptops are coming with hdmi now). both hd-dvds and blu-ray will be gone.

12/6/2007 10:47:50 AM

http://holiday.ri-walmart.com/?utm_source=ml&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=holiday&utm_content=dec7



[Edited on December 6, 2007 at 10:58 AM. Reason : st]

12/6/2007 10:54:19 AM

Quote :

"yeah... last I checked shitty quality iTunes 240*320 movies were considerably smaller than 1080p movies. Isn't that what we were talking about? Oh yes, it was. "

Not quite, there's two issues intertwined here:

1) That services offering downloaded video content aren't/can't/won't be widely popular because people like to own physical media
2) That HD content is too expansive to be downloaded


Point 1 holds no bearing as the iTunes online store and the horde of copycats have shown that millions will download content with no issues whatsoever. The iTunes video store shows that they will also download their favorite shows and movies, even if its formated for a 4 inch screen.

Point 2 has a bit more truth to it. HD requires a LOT of bandwidth to deliver live and a LOT of storage space to deliver static. However, anyone who has used XboxLive (not you, obviously ) HD download service knows that it CAN be done and done relatively well. I watched THX 1138 and V for Vendetta HD on my 360 by purchasing downloads on a whim. It took no more then 30 mins of my time to get both movies, about the same amount of time it would take for me to run to the store.

I did this a year ago and I don't have FiOS, which would have been roughly 3x my personal available bandwidth.

Mind you, we haven't even talked about cinemanow.com and likewise websites that deliver DVD quality movies to your hard drive.

Quote :

" You're trying to argue that because TV shows have had some *relative* success on iTunes it means reference quality HD will be downloadable on a wide scale soon. Actually, you're saying that it will be the preferred method of delivery... "

That's exactly what I'm saying. The only real roadblock to this right now is the fact that studios are stonewalling technologists and they're doing that mainly because they're afraid that mass downloaded content means people will be ripping and sharing and not paying. Arguing otherwise is silly.

12/6/2007 10:58:08 AM

Quote :

" That's exactly what I'm saying. The only real roadblock to this right now is the fact that studios are stonewalling technologists and they're doing that mainly because they're afraid that mass downloaded content means people will be ripping and sharing and not paying. Arguing otherwise is silly. "

Honestly, I think the bigger issue is that the infrastructure is not there to support millions of people d/l movies at 20GB+/pop. Nor will it be there in the forseeable future. How fast do you think that V for Vendetta download would have gone if even half of the 360's user base were all doing the same thing??

And Golovko, just relax for a minute. I'm not attacking your precious xbox and haven't said shit about PS3. Downloadable HD was presented as a viable alternative to HD-DVD/Blu-Ray, which it isn't because it's not even close to being ready/doable on a wide scale anytime soon. That's all I'm saying.

[Edited on December 6, 2007 at 11:17 AM. Reason : sd]

12/6/2007 11:15:26 AM

It's not even that a lot of people don't have broadband. Of the people that do, the average speed is under 2Mbps. We're actually living the good life here in Raleigh, when it comes to broadband believe it or not.

Look, people are ok with paying for downloadable music because the convenience factor (and price) outweighs the sacrifice in audio quality, especially if you're doing most of your listening on the go. People don't watch movies on 2" screens though. They watch them on the $1000+ HDTVs and home theater systems. Asking people to pay physical media prices for download who's quality isn't up to par with the physical media will never work. That's the other issue with things like Steam, people figure if the price is the same, they'd rather have the box anyway.

You guys are talking about replacing HD media with downloads when we don't even have a service that is a reasonable substitute for buying standard DVDs. You can cite technology, industry, or consumer mindset reasons, but anyway you look at it's just not going to happen anytime soon. If Blu-ray or HD DVD can ever break out of "niche" status (or even get there), they will have a life at least as long as DVD.

[Edited on December 6, 2007 at 11:18 AM. Reason : important]

12/6/2007 11:17:59 AM

^my point, in a more eloquent format.

12/6/2007 11:19:35 AM

dude... i take it you haven't downloaded hd content on an xbox 360?
really you should try it and then re-write that.

[Edited on December 6, 2007 at 11:24 AM. Reason : ,]

12/6/2007 11:24:19 AM

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20061222-8486.html

You guys should actually buy an xbox360. It would save you the trouble of looking foolish with some of the statements you keep making. The fact that Sony is rolling out its pay-download movie service for PSN highlights that companies see a reason to invest millions in this technology.

You keep arguing "but people won't do it, it can't be done!" when I've already stated that it HAS been done, by me, last year.

Quote :

"How fast do you think that V for Vendetta download would have gone if even half of the 360's user base were all doing the same thing??"

I did it on launch weekday where effectively a large number of 360 users were trying the service. Yea, logging in and purchasing took longer then normal and I do believe there was a brief service outage but that would happen to any resource, digital or material, that had a large number of people coveting it. Difference being, I wouldn't have to wait for the local store to restock.

12/6/2007 11:32:10 AM

I don't need an XBox 360 to know downloading movies works. I've been doing it on my PC from the day I got Road Runner!!! We're not talking about proof of concept here, we're talking about a mass market replacement to physical media.

Ok, how about this. When 8 million people download a new release on their XBox 360s instead of rushing out to buy the DVD on day one, then we can have a serious discussion about the death of physical media. Right now, it's just a pipe dream.

12/6/2007 11:39:28 AM

Quote :

" And Golovko, just relax for a minute. I'm not attacking your precious xbox and haven't said shit about PS3. Downloadable HD was presented as a viable alternative to HD-DVD/Blu-Ray, which it isn't because it's not even close to being ready/doable on a wide scale anytime soon. That's all I'm saying."

lol, you're a joke. Anytime someone responds to one of your pathetic attacks you go all "Golovko, just relax for a minute. I'm not attacking your precious xbox" on us. I don't care if you are attacking the xbox. I own an xbox yes, but I'm no fan boy. I do appreciate the good features that it has to offer, unlike you who thinks the PS3 is God's gift to mankind.

Quote :

"yeah as soon as xbox live makes unlimited tv/movie downloads part of the annual and or monthly fee or if netflix does it (being that many laptops are coming with hdmi now). both hd-dvds and blu-ray will be gone."

you get a set amount of downloads with your membership depending on what level membership you have with netflix.

[Edited on December 6, 2007 at 11:42 AM. Reason : .]

12/6/2007 11:41:22 AM

Quote :

"Ok, how about this. When 8 million people download a new release on their XBox 360s buy an HD formatted version of a movie instead of rushing out to buy the DVD on day one, then we can have a serious discussion about the death of physical media high definition movies on disc. Right now, it's just a pipe dream."

12/6/2007 11:47:59 AM

guys, no one is saying it can't be done. Hell, I"m not even saying it won't be a reality at some point in the future. But the truth is, it's not a realistic alternative to physical media anytime soon. So while it may someday replace physical media, it is not an option now.

And Golovko... seriously... you're the only one that keeps bringing consoles into this. You're just like an annoying little kid. OK, we get it, I love the PS3 and you don't like it. Move on with your life, if you've got one.

Quote :

"Anytime someone responds to one of your pathetic attacks "

see, that's the thing. I'm not attacking anyone, as much as you might think I am. I am capable of disagreeing with someone without getting all stupid about it.

[Edited on December 6, 2007 at 11:57 AM. Reason : d]

12/6/2007 11:53:41 AM

Quote :

" You guys should actually buy an xbox360. It would save you the trouble of looking foolish with some of the statements you keep making. The fact that Sony is rolling out its pay-download movie service for PSN highlights that companies see a reason to invest millions in this technology."

they're going to be investing for a good while before it is ready for mass market consumption. That is my only point here.

12/6/2007 12:00:02 PM

Quote :

"And Golovko... seriously... you're the only one that keeps bringing consoles into this. You're just like an annoying little kid. OK, we get it, I love the PS3 and you don't like it. Move on with your life, if you've got one. "

LOL...back peddling? You bring in the PS3 in the blu ray debate. I bring the Xbox in the HD digital distribution debate because it is relavant. Has nothing to do with fanboy. If you owned an xbox or even tried one you would know what I'm talking about. But because you fail at debating you just assume I'm on a crusade for the Xbox360 because i mention it in my post. Do us all a favor and stop posting in this thread.

in your entire last 2 posts you've said nothing.

[Edited on December 6, 2007 at 12:01 PM. Reason : .]

12/6/2007 12:00:11 PM

plz can knock off it guise

12/6/2007 12:02:36 PM

because the PS3 is a Blu-Ray player, remember? The best selling Blu-Ray player, in fact. I'd say that's not totally out of place to bring it up in a Blu-Ray thread.

The fact that your Xbox can download HD media is great, but it's not an indicator that this is the future of HD Media. Notice I haven't said anything at all about PS3 for a while now, while you keep bringing it up again and again. Get some new material, at least.

12/6/2007 12:02:52 PM

you haven't said anything about the PS3 because the debate went from blu ray/hd dvd to digital distribution which funny thing the xbox does both HD DVD and digital distribution. The PS3 just does blu ray. (for now) stop fucking up the thread because someone mentioned a feature of the xbox360.

Quote :

"The fact that your Xbox can download HD media is great, but it's not an indicator that this is the future of HD Media. Notice I haven't said anything at all about PS3 for a while now, while you keep bringing it up again and again. Get some new material, at least."

Its an indicator that this is possible and very likely. Microsoft has had success with it. Apple has had great success with digital distribution for movies/tv shows, hd or not. so yes, this is an indicator that the future of HD Media could very possibly go in that route. And before you get all fanatik on us, i don't mean the future is tied in with the xbox

[Edited on December 6, 2007 at 12:06 PM. Reason : .]

12/6/2007 12:04:44 PM

Quote :

" they're going to be investing for a good while before it is ready for mass market consumption. That is my only point here. "

I agree with this.

The current iteration of this service isn't going to usurp DVD and convince the average walmart customer to jump on the HD wagon.

I'm just saying, 5 years from now with the nextgen xbox and xboxLive and even videogame systems becoming even more mainstream, I could see it happening.

12/6/2007 12:07:12 PM

The only reason we're talking about downloads is because someone said "why buy either when downloads will replace them soon". I just don't think that's true.

And see: yet again, you turned it into a pissing match b/w the PS3 and 360. NO ONE GIVES A SHIT. Enjoy your Xbox, and I'll enjoy my PS3. It doesn't bother me, why does it bother you so much?

12/6/2007 12:07:20 PM

Quote :

"I'm just saying, 5 years from now with the nextgen xbox and xboxLive and even videogame systems becoming even more mainstream, I could see it happening."

agreed.

12/6/2007 12:09:40 PM

Glad we changed your mind.

12/6/2007 12:12:41 PM

Quote :

"all joking aside, I do actually believe that the future will be primarily online downloads."

from my 2nd post on this page....

Thanks for playing

[Edited on December 6, 2007 at 12:14 PM. Reason : d]

12/6/2007 12:14:17 PM