Quote :

"To me it doesn't matter that Trayvon was black and it doesn't matter that Zimmerman is latino (or hispanic I guess is technically correct). What I find scary is that people are ready to convict this guy while only knowing what the media have fed to them. You're going to base a person's life only on what you read on the internet or watched on TV...but to add to it people want (or need) it to be about race just so they can feel all butthurt and justified in making such a big deal out of it. Then act like they're all liberal and want to help blacks by convicting this guy. "

Ummm there are at least 2 911 calls and neither of them have come anywhere near justifying the killing of a 17 yo boy carrying skittles and tea.

You are "willfully ignorant" if you think that people's outrage is built on media manipulation.

If Zimmerman had called 911 saying he saw Martin breaking into houses, opening car doors, peeking in mailboxes, or really anything suspicious AT ALL you might have a point.

This isn't even a liberal/conservative issue, unless you are suggesting conservatives think its okay to shoot kids walking down the street?

3/23/2012 7:44:22 PM

He did. He said he saw Trayvon stopping and looking at houses.

Also, lets not ignore the fact that this "kid" was around 6'3" and 150lbs and played football.

He isn't some little child as some are making him out to be.

3/23/2012 7:51:43 PM

If someone is 6'3, and only 150 lbs, they are a twig.

3/23/2012 7:57:52 PM

3/23/2012 7:58:29 PM

^^^
Stopping so much he had to follow in his car?

And most people look at houses as they walk by.

The fact of the matter is that there's not a single shred of evidence that exonerates Zimmerman. Every new piece of info that comes out makes him look worse.

3/23/2012 8:07:11 PM

Fuck.... I'm 6'2, about 200lbs, and I go running 4 - 5 times a week through my neighborhood for exercise. I hope no one chases me down and kills me because I look suspicious.

3/23/2012 8:08:57 PM

^^Not really. And just another reason he hasn't been arrested.

More than likely wont be.

Why some of you can't understand this its just mind boggling.

There is basically no tangible evidence to discount Zimmermans claim.

This is why he will be enjoying another night of freedom while some of you sit at home unable to process the reason why he hasn't and most likely will not be arrested.

But please, do continue to think you know everything.

[Edited on March 23, 2012 at 8:14 PM. Reason : ,]

3/23/2012 8:13:06 PM

Quote :

"if you think that people's outrage is built on media manipulation."

I'm not going to take that bait. In fact, I'm not posting anymore about this. Tonight, Imma watch the game, drink some homebrew, and chill. You all should do the same.

3/23/2012 8:13:43 PM

^
Lol seems like you realize you're wrong.

^^ so what are you saying? The police mostly do things right? Laws are always just? Trayvon deserved to die in this case?

Because none of these are true, and you're an idiot of this is what you happen to believe.

3/23/2012 8:19:01 PM

Quote :

"Fuck.... I'm 6'2, about 200lbs, and I go running 4 - 5 times a week through my neighborhood for exercise. I hope no one chases me down and kills me because I look suspicious."

Just don't run or defend yourself against any threatening person.

3/23/2012 8:19:38 PM

... Or look at houses.

3/23/2012 8:20:29 PM

Quote :

"You are "willfully ignorant" if you think that people's outrage is built on media manipulation. "

There's been some media manipulation, such as trying to paint Zimmerman as a white guy, for one, and the neighborhood as an upper class whites only neighborhood. Correct me if I am wrong, but this neighborhood isn't exactly Irving Park or Lochmere...

Quote :

"He did. He said he saw Trayvon stopping and looking at houses."

But... witnesses lie, right? except for George Zimmerman, of course. can you quote or show where Zimmerman said this, though? thanks.

Quote :

"There is basically no tangible evidence to discount Zimmermans claim."

Except for the fact that he had no reason to follow a kid, and did. And he had no reason to get out of his car and chase a kid. but he did. and he's been harassing 911 with calls exactly like this for the past year, at least. Dude isn't the straight arrow you want to make him out to be.

3/23/2012 8:56:28 PM

Quote :

""You are "willfully ignorant" if you think that people's outrage is built on media manipulation. ""

Check out WRAL and look at the pics with the story, they've got not one but two pics of Trayvon holding a baby. If you don't see that for what it id (media manipulation) you're just well, a moron

3/23/2012 9:04:55 PM

I think it's the same picture posted twice.

[Edited on March 23, 2012 at 9:09 PM. Reason : But I absolutely think the media has way too much control over our "justice" system.]

3/23/2012 9:08:27 PM

If I had a child, I doubt Beethoven would chase them down and shoot them in the chest because they look suspicious.

Beethoven86 on the other hand.... :-/

3/23/2012 9:11:03 PM

lol

end.

3/23/2012 9:12:02 PM

hey guize, I'm just here to be willfully ignorant and claim wild fantasies for my defense.

3/23/2012 9:12:57 PM

Quote :

"If I had a child, I doubt Beethoven would chase them down and shoot them in the chest because they look suspicious. Beethoven86 on the other hand.... :-/"

Truth. How could you not give EMCE's children the benefit of the doubt?

[Edited on March 23, 2012 at 9:16 PM. Reason : And by benefit of the doubt, I mean, don't shoot innocent people.]

3/23/2012 9:15:20 PM

Quote :

"This is why he will be enjoying another night of freedom "

Except he's not enjoying anything right now. Dude's in hiding, and on leave (or fired, or quit) from his job. He's basically under self-imposed house arrest.


Grand Jury convenes on April 10th. Expect him to be arrested sometime on April 11th or so.

3/23/2012 9:15:21 PM

Man, that cat left his house in the dead of night with a towel over his face, and has been hiding out in his dad's basement. He's not showing his face any time soon. He's most likely reading every single news story about this incident, thinking about how much he wishes he had kept his ass in his car that night.

3/23/2012 9:28:29 PM

Quote :

"There's been some media manipulation, such as trying to paint Zimmerman as a white guy, for one, and the neighborhood as an upper class whites only neighborhood. Correct me if I am wrong, but this neighborhood isn't exactly Irving Park or Lochmere..."

I haven't seen anything that described it as a white neighborhood or an upper class neighborhood.

And whether Zimmerman is white or not is a matter of perspective (and pretty irrelevant). It really boils down to what Zimmerman self identifies as.

Quote :

" Check out WRAL and look at the pics with the story, they've got not one but two pics of Trayvon holding a baby. If you don't see that for what it id (media manipulation) you're just well, a moron "

Yeh because it's not like people were outraged by this before pics like this surfaced or anything...

This isn't like watching a movie or the duke lacrosse case, where we don't know the ending.

This is one of the few cases where we do know the ending... Zimmerman stalked martin and shot him. Martin had every right to be where he was, and was carrying skittles and tea. Even Gov Bush that signed this law into place doesn't believe it covers Zimmerman.

the fact of the matter is that we KNOW Martins death is unjust, no one seems to disagree with this. If a law protects an unjust outcome, it must be protested.

[Edited on March 23, 2012 at 9:30 PM. Reason : ]

3/23/2012 9:30:05 PM

Quote :

"But... witnesses lie, right? except for George Zimmerman, of course. can you quote or show where Zimmerman said this, though? thanks."

Yep, sure can. I can even one up you. You can actually hear him say it himself because it's in the 911 call he made.

See you are on here blabbing shit without even know what you are talking about.

You are just caught up in the whole "omg white guy shot some poor innocent kid execution style while he ate his skittles" nonsense.

Anything else?

Thanks

Quote :

"Except for the fact that he had no reason to follow a kid, and did. And he had no reason to get out of his car and chase a kid. but he did."

See, this is where most people are missing the point.

George Zimmerman thought he was following a criminal.

While on the phone with 911 he states that he is following the person so he can let the cops know where he is when they arrive.

Whether you agree with this or no, or think its stupid, IT IS PERFECTLY LEGAL.


Once the fight starts, no matter who started it, he has a REASONABLE assumption at this point that he is fighting a criminal and defends himself.


THIS IS WHY HE HASN'T BEEN ARRESTED YOU STUPID FUCKS

[Edited on March 23, 2012 at 9:59 PM. Reason : .]

3/23/2012 9:45:25 PM

If you know anything about burro, you'd know he typically bends over backwards to defend the white guys. He loves white males more than Rebecca Black loves Fridays. You're way barking up the wrong tree if you think that's his motivation.

^ you're dumb as a brick. Just because a dumb person makes the wrong assumption doesn't mean the law protects him. The laws are supposed to deter people from doing dumb things. The law isn't supposed to protect dumb people.

What you're arguing is that if someone didn't know that police wear uniforms, carry badges and say things like "you have the right to remain silent" then this dumb person is justified in killing this officer when he approaches him with a gun, if he thinks hes a criminal.

[Edited on March 23, 2012 at 10:04 PM. Reason : ]

3/23/2012 10:01:12 PM

Right, it doesn't matter if Zimmerman was acting in good faith (though misguided) but made a mistake.

It doesn't matter if Zimmerman had an accident.

It doesn't matter if Zimmerman THOUGHT Trayvon was a criminal....he wasn't, and there's nothing to suggest that he was.


Perhaps that's the difference between manslaughter v. involuntary manslaughter.....but in this country, those types of "accidents" are punished. Trayvon was minding his goddamn business until Zimmerman came along.



[Edited on March 23, 2012 at 10:17 PM. Reason : Nike]

3/23/2012 10:12:31 PM

It's unacceptable to go for a walk and get killed. Other than Africa, are we the only place where people have to worry about this shit?

The killer should be punished, and whatever law makes this even remotely acceptable should be changed.

3/23/2012 10:17:26 PM

Ok, well let me go over this again since some of you are still missing the point.

This is what we know.

George Zimmerman sees someone that HE THINKS is suspicious for whatever reasons. This does not matter legally. HE THINKS the guy is suspicious and calls 911.

While on the phone with 911 and still in his car, this person that George Zimmerman sees takes off running.

Tired of past criminals getting away, and thinking that Trayvon is another one about to get away, based on what he has seen up to this point, Zimmerman decides to follow the person while still on the phone with 911 and at this point, has no clue where Trayvon is. He ends the call as he is walking back to his car to meet the cops still with no clue where Trayvon is. This is all recorded in the 911 call.

At this point NOTHING ILLEGAL HAS OCCURED.

While walking back to his car one of two things PROBABLY happened.

1)Zimmerman sees Trayvon and chases him down, he starts a fight with Trayvon and Trayvon begins to beat his ass. There are wounds on Zimmerman to suggest this. During the fight, and not going to let this black thug get away with kicking his ass, Zimmerman shoots him dead.

2)Trayvon thinking he is also being chased by a criminal, attacks Zimmerman and begins to beat Zimmerman causing the wounds from the police report. Zimmerman gets the slip on him and for whatever reason thinks that Trayvon has become a threat at this point. Reaches for a cell phone and Zimmerman thinks its a gun, whatever we will never know. It only matters if Zimmerman felt he was in danger, so he shoots and kills Trayvon to eliminate what he thinks is a threat to his life by the criminal he thought he was chasing.


There is no tangible evidence at this point to suggest that either one of them happened or didn't happen. There are witnesses saying it was Zimmerman screaming, there are some saying it was Trayvon. Some say Zimmerman was on top, some say it was Trayvon.

All George Zimmerman basically has to do is go with story number 2 and he will more than likely get away with this.


THERE IS NOTHING TO DISCOUNT STORY #2 at this point.

It's basically a he said she said and none of it physically shows that whatever story Zimmerman is telling at this point isn't what happened.

Look, I am not siding with the guy, or saying what he did isn't wrong or whatever. I am trying to explain why he hasn't been arrested and that believe it or not, it could just be one big misunderstanding that ended up costing a kid his life and there is nothing that the cops can do about it.

What pisses me off is all these black people calling for this guys head when they don't even consider that something other than an execution killing of a black child by a white man occured.

3/23/2012 10:19:16 PM

^ in both of those scenarios the just thing is for Zimmerman should be arrested and charged.

And it's not just black people that realize this is unjust.

Quote :

"Three of the GOP presidential contenders also commented on the case. Mitt Romney called for a “a thorough investigation.” Both Rick Santorum and Newt Gingrich said it appeared Zimmerman acted outside the bounds of Florida’s controversial “Stand Your Ground” law. “Stand Your Ground is not doing what this man did,” Santorum said in Lousiana. “So, there’s a difference between Stand Your Ground and doing what he did, and it’s a horrible ."

Anyone with a working brain cell sees what happened. You're pretty racist if you think just blacks are outraged by this.

[Edited on March 23, 2012 at 10:26 PM. Reason : ]

3/23/2012 10:22:11 PM

Quote :

"Right, it doesn't matter if Zimmerman was acting in good faith (though misguided) but made a mistake. It doesn't matter if Zimmerman had an accident. It doesn't matter if Zimmerman THOUGHT Trayvon was a criminal....he wasn't, and there's nothing to suggest that he was. "

Actually, yes, it does. This is the point most of you are missing.

Once the fight started, he had a REASONABLE assumption in his mind that the guy he was in a fight with was a criminal, or up to no good, or meant to cause him harm. Whichever way you want to word it.

At this point, Zimmerman has a right, legally, to defend himself.


THIS IS WHY HE HAS NOT BEEN ARRESTED YET YOU STUPID FUCKS.

Jesus Christ, this is not that hard to understand.

The cops and the justice system in FL up until this point also agree, so don't sit here and act like I am just talking out my ass.

Quote :

"^ in both of those scenarios the just thing is for Zimmerman should be arrested and charged."

Actually it's not. THATS WHAT YOU FUCKERS DON'T UNDERSTAND.

In your mind, sure maybe he should be arrested.

According to the state of Florida. NO.

You are wrong, get over it.

[Edited on March 23, 2012 at 10:24 PM. Reason : b]

3/23/2012 10:23:48 PM

Even in scenario #2, Trayvon would have every right to stand HIS ground and defend himself against the threat of a stranger running after him, presumably to cause him harm when he (Trayvon) has done nothing wrong.

3/23/2012 10:23:56 PM

EXACTLY

Thats what makes this so fucked up.

Each person thought they were defending themselves from someone that was out to cause them harm.

And Trayvon beat the guys ass pretty good, so lets all just stop acting like he was shot execution style for no reason.

3/23/2012 10:26:02 PM

Each one thought, but only one of them was right, and that's Trayvon.

Thats what's unjust about this. The guy who was right is dead, and the guy who was wrong is walking free.

3/23/2012 10:27:29 PM

Point is.....one person in this situation was correct. Hint: It was the person minding his damn business to begin with.




LOLOLOL, I accidentally thought your head was on fire....so I drowned you trying to put the imaginary flames out. Whoops.

3/23/2012 10:28:19 PM

Quote :

"Each one thought, but only one of them was right, and that's Trayvon. Thats what's unjust about this. The guy who was right is dead, and the guy who was wrong is walking free. "

I totally agree!

And its fucked up beyond belief.

3/23/2012 10:29:18 PM

Quote :

"According to the state of Florida. NO."

Lol no. It's the local police that have bungled this. What you're saying is that if the clayton police department made a decision it clearly would always be right.

Their decision seems so obviously wrong, that not only has the state of florida appointed a special investigator, but so to has the fed gov.

If you want to pull rank, it seems that more authorities are questioning your opinion than support it.

It's the dumbest, least experienced people on the lowest level of the ladder that you are siding with.

3/23/2012 10:31:07 PM

Quote :

"Their decision seems so obviously wrong, that not only has the state of florida appointed a special investigator, but so to has the fed gov. If you want to pull rank, it seems that more authorities are questioning your opinion than support it."

Because if they didn't god damn Jessee Jackson and Al Sharpton would be organizing riots all over the country.

3/23/2012 10:34:00 PM

haha

moving goal posts means... VICTORY!!

You way overestimate the power and influence of Jackson/Sharpton.

Not to mention that large amounts of your white brethren, including the 3 top GOP contenders, believe Martin's death should be prosecuted.

3/23/2012 10:37:39 PM

Hell, he probably should be.

But guess, what, there is no evidence to support that which is what I am trying to get through your fucking thick skulls.

3/23/2012 10:38:43 PM

LOL at siding with the police department in Sanford. The same police department that Trayvon's parents had to file suit against to even get the 911 tapes released where Zimmerman is saying "fucking coons".
Let me guess....Trayvon's parents were just supposed to trust that the police department was competent then, just as they're to trust that they're competent now?

3/23/2012 10:39:00 PM

Where is the recording where he says fucking coons?

And I thought someone already suggested that he was saying something else.

I've listened to all the recordings on page 9 buy maybe i missed it.

3/23/2012 10:40:03 PM

oh good Christ...

if that doesn't do it for you, how about the 911 calls showing that Zimmerman was fucking stalking Trayvon.

[Edited on March 23, 2012 at 10:45 PM. Reason : s]

3/23/2012 10:41:18 PM

Where is the recording? Give me a link.

3/23/2012 10:45:15 PM

Quote :

"(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or (2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013."

Basically all Zimmerman has to say is I was following what I at the time thought was a criminal trying to flee the scene. I lost sight of him and was walking back to my car. While walking back I was jumped by Trayvon who caused the bloody nose and busted head. I feared for my life at the time and had to shoot him to protect myself.


That is basically ALL he has to say and there is basically NOTHING to show otherwise.

3/23/2012 10:47:19 PM

Well, the non-legal implications are still pending no matter what. You really think this dude will ever be hired again? I would NEVER hire this guy out of fear of him having a retalitory individual following him to my work place ... Do you think it will be safe for him to just go the mall shopping? He best fest up and go for a manslaughter case and pull 4-5 years so he can move on with his life, and not be imprisoned in fear.

^ You cannot be serious about that. If you think its THAT easy to get off on self-defense people would be killing people left and right. Though that could possibly happen, but not like saying it.

[Edited on March 23, 2012 at 10:57 PM. Reason : /]

3/23/2012 10:52:00 PM

Oh I agree, he's totally fucked from that standpoint.

Quote :

"^ You cannot be serious about that. If you think its THAT easy to get off on self-defense people would be killing people left and right."

Go look up the stand your ground law in Florida and get back to me.

That's one of the main reasons you people aren't getting why this guy hasn't been arrested.

Hell, go search Google, this isn't the first case of someone shooting and killing an unnarmed person in Florida and not being prosecuted.

[Edited on March 23, 2012 at 10:54 PM. Reason : .]

3/23/2012 10:53:18 PM

obama interjecting himself into this is really disgusting.

the worst kind of political pandering possible.

you might discard it because its from politico, or maybe simply because its newt gingrich, but politics aside this really hits the fucking nail on the head:

Quote :

"“It’s not a question of who that young man looked like. Any young American of any ethnic background should be safe, period. We should all be horrified no matter what the ethnic background," Gingrich said. "Is the President suggesting that if it had been a white who had been shot that would be ok because it didn’t look like him?" Earlier in the day Gingrich told reporters that he thought the case should be investigated and suggested the shooter was at fault. "That’s just nonsense dividing this country up. It is a tragedy this young man was shot," Gingrich continued on Hannity's show. "It would have been a tragedy if he had been Puerto Rican or Cuban or if he had been white or if he had been Asian-American of if he’d been a Native American. At some point we ought to talk about being Americans. When things go wrong to an American. It is sad for all Americans. Trying to turn it into a racial issue is fundamentally wrong. I really find it appalling.”"

in case you dont know the quote hes referring to, hes referring to earlier in the day when obama said "if i had a son, he'd look like trayvon."

i dont like gingrich, i dont like zimmerman, i dont like the police chief, but by god this is absolutely true. fuck all these little shitweavels that have crawled out of the woodwork to take advantage of dangerous and explosive attitudes.

not surprisingly this is being set up to be the show trial of the summer; get used to having one every year.

3/23/2012 10:54:17 PM

^^Potential self-defense cases are ALWAYS investigated. This shuold not really be surprising that he was not arrested initially, but he probably should have been arrested by now, and seems likely he will be but that's not certain, obviously.

^ And if you don't see the rhetoric in those statements by Mr. Gingrich, you cray cray hahaha

[Edited on March 23, 2012 at 11:02 PM. Reason : /]

3/23/2012 10:59:01 PM

Quote :

"Police have said officers were prohibited from arresting Zimmerman because he claimed to have used "justifiable" force. The case has triggered a wave of public outcry to change or repeal Florida's "stand your ground" law. Trayvon Martin was talking on his cellphone when he was shot and killed in February. "You want to know how you can kill somebody legally in Florida?" says Arthur Hayhoe, executive director of the Florida Coalition to Stop Gun Violence. "Make sure you have no witnesses, hunt the person down and then say you feared for your life." Hayhoe says he has about a dozen cases on his desk now similar to Trayvon's case. He says in those cases, gunmen say they were defending themselves and have not been charged, leaving grieving relatives to wonder why the shooters have not been charged. Florida's "stand your ground" law emerged after a man shot and killed a burglar who officials say was trying to break into the man's RV in the aftermath of Hurricane Ivan in 2005. The man waited months before learning he would not be charged with murder. Justifiable homicides climb The FBI considers a homicide committed by a private citizen justified when a person is slain during the commission of a felony, such as burglary or robbery. Source: FBI Uniform Crime Reports The case inspired then-Florida state senator Durell Peaden, a Republican, to introduce a bill dealing with similar situations. Florida state representative Dennis Baxley, the bill's House sponsor, told USA TODAY the law empowers people to defend themselves and should not be challenged in the wake of the Trayvon Martin case. "Every time you have an adverse incident, immediately the anti-gun faction will say this law is the problem," Baxley, a Republican, said, adding that violent crime in Florida has dropped since its implementation. "As public policy, it is fulfilling its purpose and working well. The perpetrators know everyone has the right to defend themselves. … I think that has been a strong deterrent." George Zimmerman: Neighborhood watch captain involved in shooting death of Trayvon Martin Orange County Jail via Miami Herald via AP Since the law was enacted in 2005, the number of justifiable homicides in Florida has skyrocketed, said state Sen. Oscar Braynon, a Democrat who represents the area in Miami where Trayvon lived with his mother. In 2005, there were 43 such cases; in 2009, the last complete year available, there were 105, he said. Nationally, justifiable homicides by private citizens have been slowly rising since 2005. The number in 2010, the last full year measured by the FBI, showed 278 such killings, the most in 15 years. The FBI uses a more restrictive methodology than Florida, only counting those people who are slain during the commission of felony. Baxley thinks the jump in justifiable homicides shows the law is working. "The perpetrator suffered instead of the person they were victimizing. … That's what those numbers mean," he said. Some gun control advocates, including Daniel Vice, senior attorney at the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence, said the numbers underscore an increasingly aggressive mentality on the streets fueled in part by state laws, including Florida's, that afford shooters broader interpretations of self-defense in violent encounters outside the home. "It's part of this increasing effort to push more guns into more public places. This is the (National Rifle Association's) vision for America," Vice said, referring to the gun lobby's support of more permissive gun laws. The NRA didn't immediately respond to requests for comment Wednesday. Braynon has called for hearings or a select committee to clarify what constitutes self-defense under Florida's law. Florida Gov. Rick Scott said he supports a review of the law. Florida does not track or keep statistics on cases where someone uses a "stand your ground" defense, said Bill Eddins, president of the Florida Prosecuting Attorneys Association. Based on speaking with prosecutors statewide, more people seem to use the defense, he said. "It's been great for defense lawyers," said Richard Rosenbaum, a criminal defense attorney in Fort Lauderdale. "It has helped a lot of people get off on self-defense that would have been found guilty before 2005.""

It's funny, I don't remember hearing about any of these other cases making national news, or Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton making a huge outcry over it.

But when it's a white man killing a black kid it becomes some huge thing.

Still don't think this is a racial issue for these people?

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-03-21/stand-your-ground-law-trayvon-martin-florida/53690608/1?csp=34news

[Edited on March 23, 2012 at 11:03 PM. Reason : ,]

3/23/2012 11:02:09 PM

so the black panther party puts out an official "wanted dead or alive" notice on george zimmerman and what happens? nothing.

the FBI should be in their ass immediately either 1) insuring they cease to exist as an organization, or 2) exposing them for the pathetic clowns they are and making sure the nation knows theyre just a bunch of do-nothing nobodies that talk too much.

3/23/2012 11:17:01 PM

What if they bought some Google ads and put this guys face all over the internet forever and ever?

3/23/2012 11:18:42 PM

^^^ lol

you're making this more about race than anyone in this thread.

You and Jackson and Sharpton are 3 peas in a pod.

[Edited on March 23, 2012 at 11:19 PM. Reason : ]

3/23/2012 11:19:43 PM