Quote :

"^ I don't get this. At some point it has to matter what he says, no? I mean he flat out said he would run any potential nominee through that foundation. Am I suppose to act on "feelings" that he might be lying like that's a good thing?"

I've never claimed that I'll vote for him. I'm voting for Stein, most likely.

I'm just speculating based on his history as an anti-war, pro universal healthcare Democrat and his current trend to the left.

4/28/2016 4:46:00 PM

Quote :

"Not only is Bernie not the first person to run an idealistic, leftist campaign in the Dem Party, he damn sure won't be the last."

You're right on this but there is a yuge difference between campaign and practice. Even Hillary claims to be a progressive.

Quote :

" The country is swinging that direction, we already have some berniesque politicians building experience, "

There are two congresmen who have supported bernie sanders from the start. TWO and thats it. Governors and senators who typically are in position to rise to power have all supported clinton.

Quote :

"politicians of all stripes are gonna start tacking that direction"

drifting in the breeze of political convenience is not bernie. Thats not progressivism either. Thats centrism. Its the difference between leaving iraq in 2010 and not going there at all. Anyone can be reactive and do the right thing after its blown up in everyones face. The senator who endorsed bernie on april 13th is a disgrace. Do you really think after all that he suddenly realized the stark differences between the two campaigns? Where was he last april? The bandwagon mentality is one of no conviction. These people are in the business of winning elections and thats it.

Quote :

" new Bernies are just entering the political sphere everyday, "

You don't just become a bernie overnight. I'd assume most politicians enter the field with good intentions but its just a matter of time before they become corrupted by the corrupt system. Bernie served for decades without that happening.

Quote :

"if progressive momentum continues (that Bernie has done an awesome job of firing up), and Hillary veers into hard conservadem land, she'll be challenged hard in 4 years and you need to be there with a list of your greviances."

It won't matter. That has already happened under obama and people will always just compare them to republicans and say look how much better it is than the alternative. Democrats don't dare question anything obama has done. Its almost taboo. Republicans will say her failings are due to the failure of progressivism itself and fire up republicans. Think about how so many people label obama as a socialist. Progressivism will be labeled as obama/clinton and then we'll get a surge of conservatism under a rebranded republican party. wash and repeat.

[Edited on April 28, 2016 at 5:18 PM. Reason : no more bernies in the pipe]

[Edited on April 28, 2016 at 5:20 PM. Reason : k]

4/28/2016 5:17:37 PM

I think our biggest difference here is that I value Bernie a little differently than you do. I think it's great that Bernie has had incredibly consistent views, seems extremely honest (by politician standards), and seems to genuinely want to serve and help the average American. In the end though, for me, all I care about is that he has policies that are in the direction I'd like to see the country move.

- Eugene McCarthy, Gary Hart, Walter Mondale, Bill Bradley, George McGovern, Howard Dean (ok that ones a stretch). All ran much further to the left of the conventional Democrat wisdom and all had a good history of consistently supporting progressive causes. All had significant support from the young. There may never be anyone that lives up to Bernie's "above politics" persona, but I can guarantee we will consistently get candidates running to the left of the conventional wisdom in the coming years.

-politicians pick winners, but don't think that a lot of politicians aren't taking notice of how well Bernie did. They follow votes and anyone can see the progressive movement growing.

-again, I could care less about motives so long as they fight to move the country in a progressive direction. Just enact good policy and I'm happy.

-same as previous quote

- I agree that progressives haven't been good enough at calling Obama out (partly the media fault IMO). That's why it needs to be different with Hillary. Vote for her, watch her walk the Third-way tightrope, and when she ultimately falls into "republican lite" territory call her out and agitate for someone that is actually liberal. In 4 years plenty of old conservadems will be dead and The millenial voting block will have grown significantly. The politicians can read between those lines.

Somewhat progressive to progressive Dems that will be up to bat in the next 4 years: Martin O'malley, John Hickenlooper, Elizabeth Warren, Brian Schweitzer, that lady governor from Oregon, Bill Deblasio, Barbara Lee, Jan schawlosky(sic), etc. This movement to the left is not a flash in the pan and it's not gonna happen over night either. This is why I'll vote for Hillary in November, in the end I think it will give the left more influence.

4/28/2016 7:38:49 PM

I'm sorry dude but that list of "progressives" is garbage.

First of all, as a Coloradan, fuck John Hickenlooper. He opposes marijuana legalization as well as our single payer ballot initiative, both of which are endorsed in the state Dem platform. He supported the Denver camping ban targeting homeless people. He's also a Hillary superdelegate, despite Bernie defeating her by nearly 20 points, and held fundraisers for her at the governor's mansion. The ones where white noise machines were deployed. Fuck that guy, please don't ever consider him progressive

O'Malley is similarly hated by his own state, but I don't know enough about him. He sounds like a southern baptist preacher.

DiBlasio is another Hillary crony and is currently under investigation for campaign finance fraud.

[Edited on April 28, 2016 at 7:55 PM. Reason : .]

4/28/2016 7:51:21 PM

Even rats abandon a sinking ship. In 4 years every single one of those will be testing the waters to run well to the left of Hillary.

[Edited on April 28, 2016 at 7:57 PM. Reason : I qualified with "somewhat progressive" lol]

4/28/2016 7:57:02 PM

Hickenlooper is establishment as it gets, idgaf how progressive he pretends to be in 4 or 8 years.

4/28/2016 8:11:01 PM

Quote :

"listen to the speech he gave yesterday"

what kind of political neophyte do you have to be to listen to such an enormous amount of bullshit and think "yeah that sounds about right?" are you also on board with his pigs blood bullets policy for executing muslims that he repeated again yesterday?

Quote :

"There are two congresmen who have supported bernie sanders from the start. TWO and thats it"

maybe that's because the people who do make the effort to endorse and support bernie are getting exactly jack shit back from him. he couldn't even be bothered to release a simple "yeah sure I endorse this guy" statement for one his his very first elected official surrogates. bernie is Team Me and that's it.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/04/john_fetterman_s_senate_campaign_needs_bernie_sanders_help.html

[Edited on April 29, 2016 at 9:09 AM. Reason : .]

4/29/2016 8:45:21 AM

false

4/29/2016 10:11:32 AM

prove it

5/2/2016 9:40:47 AM

teachout

[Edited on May 2, 2016 at 10:18 AM. Reason : but the entire way his grassroots movement supports other progressives is really the bigger thing]

5/2/2016 10:15:26 AM

so is a contested convention pretty much guaranteed at this point?

5/2/2016 11:37:53 AM

Nope.

Hillary will have enough pledged + super, and it doesn't matter how Bernie deems/considers the convention to be. I think it's BS too, but it is the system in which he's operating.

5/2/2016 11:40:32 AM

doesn't the fact that she won't have enough pledged delegates and Sanders won't concede make it a contested convention?

[Edited on May 2, 2016 at 12:56 PM. Reason : .]

5/2/2016 12:54:49 PM

Lol i know its not happening but imagine if all the superdelegates were closet bernie bros and decided to pledge clinton so the power behind the establishment had no time to counteract their influence. Bernie knows this and is just playing along till he suddenly steals the convention.

5/2/2016 1:44:46 PM

It will be contested in the sense that it won't be locked up before the convention starts, but Hillary will win on the first ballot if superdelegate loyalties don't change.

Unless Elizabeth Warren and Joe Biden are both just waiting to jump in, force the supers to hold off, then we have a clusterfuck on the second ballot.

[Edited on May 2, 2016 at 4:22 PM. Reason : -]

5/2/2016 4:20:57 PM

Quote :

"doesn't the fact that she won't have enough pledged delegates and Sanders won't concede make it a contested convention?"

Contested convention is not a term with a single definition. Depends who you're talking to for what it means.

Sanders is free and allowed to politick superdelegates leading up to the convention to vote for him. As is Martin O'Malley or anyone else.

5/3/2016 10:17:01 PM

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/democrats-rally-sanders-before-clinton-espionage-act-indictments_b_9819600.html

5/4/2016 8:15:01 PM

HuffPo is deranged (and poorly written)

Quote :

"Bernie Sanders will become Democratic nominee..."

5/5/2016 9:35:03 AM

^yeah everybody knows it will be Biden who gets her delegates

5/5/2016 9:42:14 AM

Haha more wet dreams. Funny to see you and Earl on the same side.

5/5/2016 9:50:37 AM

Biden has clearly stated he doesn't want to run. More than once. Why do people keep bringing him up?

5/5/2016 10:07:02 AM

Didn't click but I'm guessing it's HA Goodman. He might actually be an alias for Bernie himself.

5/5/2016 10:07:48 AM

Quote :

"Didn't click but I'm guessing it's HA Goodman. He might actually be an alias for Bernie himself."

Yup. And this guy calls himself a journalist. Laughable man.

Quote :

"Hillary Clinton Should Concede to Bernie Sanders Before The FBI Reveals Its Findings"

Quote :

"Democrats Must Rally Around Bernie Sanders Before Clinton Faces Possible Espionage Act Indictments"

Quote :

"The Case for Bernie Sanders Running as an Independent, If Clinton Is the Nominee"

Quote :

"If Bernie Sanders Isn't Democratic Nominee, Don't Blame Bernie or Bust for Trump's Victory"

Quote :

"Bernie Sanders Will Remain the True Democratic Front-Runner Until the FBI Finishes Its Investigation"

Quote :

"Yes, Bernie Sanders Will Become President. Hillary Clinton's FBI Investigation Isn't a 'Nothingburger'"

Quote :

"Bernie Sanders Will Become Democratic Nominee Even If Clinton Leads in Delegates"

Quote :

"Wisconsin Just Elected Bernie Sanders President"

Quote :

"It's Time for Hillary Clinton to Concede the Democratic Nomination to Bernie Sanders"

Quote :

"The Case for Writing-In Bernie Sanders If Hillary Clinton Is the Democratic Nominee"

5/5/2016 10:11:33 AM

Bernie, the guy who is actually running, is more realistic about his chances than HA Goodman

5/5/2016 10:12:01 AM

Ive given up but bernies campaign chairman just went on cnn and said hes confident bernie will win the nomination so either you are wrong,or bernie needs to fire his campaign manager.

5/5/2016 11:05:24 AM

"Confident he will win" vs "Hillary should drop out"

5/5/2016 11:09:32 AM

Obviously she should drop out, hard to be commander in chief when you can't be trusted with classified info

5/5/2016 11:25:47 AM

Quote :

"bernies campaign chairman just went on cnn and said hes confident bernie will win the nomination"

Quote :

"Bernie Sanders' campaign manager is "confident” Sanders will stay in the race through July"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53I-llAyIH4

5/5/2016 11:43:20 AM

Quote :

"If Bernie Sanders Isn't Democratic Nominee, Don't Blame Bernie or Bust for Trump's Victory"

I haven't read the column, but this headline doesn't seem too far-fetched. Sanders and Trump both do fairly well with Independents, and Sanders has much higher favorability ratings than Trump.

5/5/2016 12:22:11 PM

Is @HillaryClinton trying to steal the nomination from @BernieSanders? Our panel weighs in NEXT on #Hannity.

5/5/2016 1:52:23 PM

Quote :

"Biden has clearly stated he doesn't want to run. More than once. Why do people keep bringing him up?"

He didn't "want" to run because the Democrat big wigs were coordinating with him. Once they had confidence in Hillary after the last set of hearings, they politely "requested" only a single mainstream candidate. There were personal reasons as well, but the decision definitely was part of other coordinated efforts.

Quote :

"Ive given up but bernies campaign chairman just went on cnn and said hes confident bernie will win the nomination so either you are wrong,or bernie needs to fire his campaign manager."

I am sure he will give it very strong consideration come this June.

5/6/2016 10:58:48 AM

https://theintercept.com/2016/05/06/hillary-super-pac-draft-oped/

5/6/2016 12:33:14 PM

Maine is getting rid of their superdelegate assignments which forces all delegates to vote according to the state vote. Hopefully other states will follow.

http://usuncut.com/politics/maine-democratic-party-just-got-rid-superdelegate-system/

5/7/2016 4:07:33 PM

For this cycle? Isn't changing the rules as we go absolutely something Sanders should/would be against?

5/7/2016 5:59:18 PM

Bernie has nothing to do with it. The Maine Democratic convention decided on their own that ALL delegates should follow the will of the people and not get to decide for themselves.

If other states do the same (I don't know which have or haven't had their conventions yet), it could energize Bernie voters in the final states, since a lot of them were assuming Hillary had this locked up with the super votes.

5/7/2016 6:37:14 PM

^^It's non-binding for 2016 but beginning in 2020 all delegates will be proportional and bound in Maine.

5/8/2016 7:52:11 AM

Superdelegates are not a mechanism of the state parties, they are a mechanism of the national party. So no rule passed by the Maine Democratic Party affects them unless the Democratic National Committee itself passes such a rule.

[Edited on May 9, 2016 at 6:08 PM. Reason : /]

5/9/2016 6:07:08 PM

I'm against proportional representation for delegates. The parties should retain executive control over who represents them, as they always have, and if voters don't like who the parties pick, they should be free to find a different party.

5/9/2016 7:21:11 PM

Except the two parties control the government and make it nearly impossible for third parties to gain representation. So basically you're saying you don't mind that our leaders essentially choose our leaders.

5/9/2016 7:25:38 PM

^ inside the mind of a Trump voter...

5/10/2016 12:36:15 PM

wat

5/10/2016 12:41:34 PM

if superdelegates weren't a thing, Hillary would have a 342 pledged delegate lead on Bernie at this point. which would mean Bernie would have to win 68.85 of the remaining delegates to beat clinton. so basically nothing would change.

5/10/2016 12:58:25 PM

^^ you're parroting him

5/10/2016 1:02:52 PM

lol what? im not voting for trump. and what I said is true

5/10/2016 1:07:45 PM

Quote :

"Except the two parties control the government and make it nearly impossible for third parties to gain representation. So basically you're saying you don't mind that our leaders essentially choose our leaders. "

There's a good, thousands year old reason, we don't have a direct democracy, and we should keep it that way.

There's problems with the 2-party system, but the solution isn't to put lipstick on the pig. I don't know what the solution is, but i'd start with making it easier for 3rd parties to get on state ballots.

5/10/2016 1:10:15 PM

^
And that will never happen if we allow the two parties to choose their own candidates.

5/10/2016 1:25:24 PM

Here then, I'll dumb it down. Your statement would not be out of place in a Trump speech.

I like it how somehow being against Trotskyist-style entryism as Trump and Sanders have done or attempted to do this election means you think only the leaders of the parties should pick the leaders. Trump is not a Republican and Sanders is not a Democrat.

[Edited on May 10, 2016 at 3:04 PM. Reason : .]

5/10/2016 3:01:21 PM

Read the comment I was replying to. He was saying that parties should literally be able to choose their candidate, essentially giving the public two viable choices for any given election.

And sure, there are things Trump has said that I agree with.

5/10/2016 3:10:33 PM

Members of parties should choose their candidates. People that say "I'm not a Republican" have no right to choose the Republican nominee. Ditto Democrats. If God help us Trump wins in November, do you think I should have a right to vote in a Democratic primary for president come 2020 even though I'm not a member and don't agree with a lot of the party's platform? That way stands political parties being meaningless organizations that stand for nothing except they have ballot access and issues-based politics suffers due to the lack of identity.

[Edited on May 10, 2016 at 3:45 PM. Reason : .]

5/10/2016 3:41:57 PM

That's a completely different discussion. The point I was replying to was that party executives should choose their candidates.

5/10/2016 3:45:12 PM