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Grandmaster
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^I think that's directed at a call that I had made early in a 5.50 SNG.

7/13/2008 8:50:13 PM

rallydurham
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I forgot this story cause i was fucking blasted all trip and its just coming back to me.

I just wanted to say I finally hit one of those fucking high hand jackpots.

I think ive lost $1k in rake to that garbage and i finally hit and won $100.

I had a borderline hand like Q10 suited in a small limit game while i was waiting for a seat to open at the NL table and for turner to lug his ass from the big time to hang out over at luxor/mandalay.

So anyway flop comes out QQ9 and i bet this dude check raises so immediately im like fuck me in the goatass im going to lose $40 in a 3/6 game on trips here but i three bet anway like a homo and he caps. So turn comes something im too wasted to even know what it was im just calling down from here anyway. He bets i call.

River comes down and motherfuck its a queen. He bets i raise. He raises I reraise. He raises I reraise. Rinse, wash, repeat this motherfucker puts in like 3 more raises before he's all in.

I show the queen and he says "damn, i knew it" and flips over one fucking 9.

So i plated $100 for the high hand of the hour on top of that pot.

Pretty sure if i dont find a new job or get into the right MBA program in the next 4 months then Im going pro again.



[Edited on July 14, 2008 at 12:07 AM. Reason : a]

7/14/2008 12:06:05 AM

Grandmaster
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reading all the brick and mortar/AC threads on 2+2 has me restless. 5 more days

7/14/2008 12:41:26 AM

dman ncsu 86
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^^ Harrah's supposedly has new structures on their daily MTTs, dunno if that interests you...but I hear good things...

7/14/2008 3:53:55 AM

Grandmaster
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jesus, pokerstars is going crazy with bonuses this month eh?

7/14/2008 2:31:42 PM

NoidRoid
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week 1 was the nuts, double VPPs(which meant 14 FPPs per $40+ pot at the 6max tables for supernovas)

last week and this week are pretty shitty by comparison

7/14/2008 4:14:27 PM

Grandmaster
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Oh damn, I thought 2xVPP was all month and these were just "extras"

7/14/2008 4:15:44 PM

Mr Scrumples
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i seem to be forcing myself to play right now

with extremely bad results...

7/14/2008 4:47:53 PM

Mr Scrumples
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Ok, assholes. Tell me what I did wrong here. I knew he didn't have 2 hearts by the way. He's a spaz German that would have let you know right away, because they don't understand how to get the most equity out of monster flops and instead go AI over and over and over...

PokerStars Game #18820586110: Tournament #95726143, $1.00+$0.20 Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2008/07/14 - 17:04:57 (ET)
Table '95726143 1' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: dyvo (1550 in chips)
Seat 2: rpadrela (920 in chips)
Seat 3: salamargo (865 in chips)
Seat 6: Scrumples (2815 in chips)
Seat 7: bl_arrow (1385 in chips)
Seat 8: Wite3 (3105 in chips)
Seat 9: shanou (2860 in chips)
salamargo: posts small blind 15
Scrumples: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Scrumples [5s 6d]
bl_arrow: folds
Wite3: calls 30
shanou: calls 30
dyvo: calls 30
rpadrela: folds
salamargo: calls 15
Scrumples: checks
*** FLOP *** [Th 6h 5h]
salamargo: checks
Scrumples: checks
Wite3: checks
shanou: bets 90
dyvo: folds
salamargo: folds
Scrumples: calls 90
Wite3: folds
*** TURN *** [Th 6h 5h] [Ac]
Scrumples: checks
shanou: bets 150
Scrumples: calls 150
*** RIVER *** [Th 6h 5h Ac] [9d]
Scrumples: checks
shanou: bets 150
Scrumples: raises 250 to 400
shanou: calls 250
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Scrumples: shows [5s 6d] (two pair, Sixes and Fives)
shanou: mucks hand
Scrumples collected 1430 from pot
Scrumples said, "???????????????????????????????????/"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1430 | Rake 0
Board [Th 6h 5h Ac 9d]
Seat 1: dyvo folded on the Flop
Seat 2: rpadrela (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: salamargo (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 6: Scrumples (big blind) showed [5s 6d] and won (1430) with two pair, Sixes and Fives
Seat 7: bl_arrow folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Wite3 folded on the Flop
Seat 9: shanou mucked [Ah Qs]

7/14/2008 5:10:06 PM

dman ncsu 86
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My first hand of Scrumple spying, I love the UTG limp w/ the pocket donks:

PokerStars Game #18821167905: Tournament #95726143, $1.00+$0.20 Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 2008/07/14 - 17:29:47 (ET)
Table '95726143 1' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: dyvo (2340 in chips)
Seat 2: rpadrela (1075 in chips)
Seat 3: salamargo (4355 in chips)
Seat 6: Scrumples (3210 in chips)
Seat 7: bl_arrow (1440 in chips)
Seat 8: Wite3 (1080 in chips)
rpadrela: posts small blind 75
salamargo: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Scrumples: calls 150
bl_arrow: folds
Wite3: folds
dyvo: folds
rpadrela: folds
salamargo: checks
*** FLOP *** [3h 7s Kc]
salamargo: bets 150
Scrumples: calls 150
*** TURN *** [3h 7s Kc] [Td]
salamargo: bets 150
Scrumples: calls 150
*** RIVER *** [3h 7s Kc Td] [Jd]
salamargo: checks
Scrumples: checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
salamargo: shows [9c 3c] (a pair of Threes)
Scrumples: shows [5h Kh] (a pair of Kings)
Scrumples collected 975 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 975 | Rake 0
Board [3h 7s Kc Td Jd]
Seat 1: dyvo (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: rpadrela (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: salamargo (big blind) showed [9c 3c] and lost with a pair of Threes
Seat 6: Scrumples showed [5h Kh] and won (975) with a pair of Kings
Seat 7: bl_arrow folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Wite3 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

7/14/2008 5:31:20 PM

Mr Scrumples
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but they were suited. that means awesome hand.

7/14/2008 5:35:48 PM

Grandmaster
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I'm thinking about Showboat
Monday through Friday at 11am & 2pm

$53 + $12 = $10,000 in chips

7/14/2008 5:41:11 PM

Mr Scrumples
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ps dude, dont patronize me about what to play in what positions and so forth. i know i had bullshit, but i'd been playing against these people for way too long now and i know how they play. if they're gonna let me limp in on bullshit hands being UTG and i catch a pair and they're betting like they probably don't have a pair, then i'll take full advantage of it.

you can make fun of the stakes for letting me do shit like that all you want...

7/14/2008 5:44:41 PM

dman ncsu 86
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Don't get your panties in a bunch, mam.

Just play better.

7/14/2008 7:13:50 PM

Mr Scrumples
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i'm more interested in the geography lessons poker stars is teaching me...

7/14/2008 7:29:35 PM

BadPokerPlyr
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but if they are unsuited, that gives you two chances to hit the flush!

7/14/2008 7:41:35 PM

Mr Scrumples
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holy shit why didn't i think of that?

7/14/2008 7:47:22 PM

BadPokerPlyr
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Quote :
"Ok, assholes. Tell me what I did wrong here."


if he's a spaz like you said he is, calling him down with two pair is alright. What would you have done if he bet 400 on the river instead of 150?

7/14/2008 7:49:37 PM

Mr Scrumples
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considering my chipstack i prolly woulda just called...I'm not sure...Like I said, I was very confident he didn't have the flush...

7/14/2008 7:55:50 PM

Grandmaster
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isn't attaching an emotion to a race or 'geography' RE: IntelliPoker the same thing as having 'favorite hands'?

7/14/2008 8:04:47 PM

NoidRoid
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Bottom two on a monotone flop is not something you should be slowplaying. I would prolly opt to jam the flop or definitely the turn.

As played isn't terrible as long as you can get away from an A/T/heart on the river.

7/14/2008 8:06:46 PM

Grandmaster
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i was reading a blog-type post on 2+2 of this kid's AC experience and couldn't help but notice how it was always this "asian player" or "Philly's cap' guy. "weird smirk girl" "Asian guy" "table captain" "old guy" "Asian guy" in his hand playbacks.

lolracist!

7/14/2008 8:10:05 PM

Mr Scrumples
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It wasn't a slow play as much as I was trying for it to be a reaction guage. Because like I said, they will usually spaz out on those things.

[Edited on July 14, 2008 at 8:12 PM. Reason : k]

7/14/2008 8:10:23 PM

Mr Scrumples
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btw i just got D'd up by a fucking intellipoker cocksucker. he had Qs to my Js on a raggedy board.

Same guy just rivered me on a donk AI call on a gutshot. Fuck it, I'm done for the day. The only reason I'm playing this shit now is for leader board points and I've apparently fucked that up this time around.

I'm out.

[Edited on July 14, 2008 at 8:17 PM. Reason : h]

7/14/2008 8:13:07 PM

Grandmaster
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the intellipoker avatar doesn't indicate the player is some poker bot. Are you saying they are using some kind of odds program or....

7/14/2008 8:25:59 PM

Mr Scrumples
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What? Intellipoker people are fucking slavs, scandinavians and kraut fucks that use that software and make really really bad calls and raises all the time. I E an all-in call of over half your stack on a 6-outer? I dunno...seems like a bad call to me...

btw i dunno why i'm bitching. because i KNEW he would make the call. that's why I shoved in the first place.

[Edited on July 14, 2008 at 8:39 PM. Reason : k]

7/14/2008 8:36:41 PM

Grandmaster
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http://www.aintluck.com/intellipoker-pokerstars/

Quote :
" “When we registered all the IntelliPoker.* domains two years ago, two had already been registered under .com and .net extensions. While .com was inactive,.net was a website promoting a “bot” program which was not available at the time. IntelliPoker.NET was listed in our “prohibited programs” section.

When we negotiated about the sale we made an agreement that the owner wouldn’t pick up his activities again and deletes all pages, even from possible different domains. Still, as you can see with Google results, there are some older web pages which have listed or reviewed this program. After the deal the program was removed from our list of “prohibited programs”.

We have discussed that issue in depth when deciding about the name of the poker school; common agreement was that while this is a suboptimal situation, the advantage of using such a high level domain, free trademark and more than 60 local domains names far outweighed the questions that would need to be answered at a later date.” - courtesy 2+2 forum"


[Edited on July 14, 2008 at 8:50 PM. Reason : .]

7/14/2008 8:49:42 PM

Mr Scrumples
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WHAT BRILLIANCE!!!!1
Actually, I think this was probably just bad fucking luck on his part...

PokerStars Game #18829638427: Tournament #95773405, $1.00+$0.20 Hold'em No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2008/07/15 - 00:11:22 (ET)
Table '95773405 1' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: **Leech67** (1535 in chips)
Seat 2: Scrumples (3720 in chips)
Seat 6: poilu1 (1465 in chips)
Seat 8: pfz1982 (4470 in chips)
Seat 9: goodwooter (2310 in chips)
goodwooter: posts small blind 25
**Leech67**: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Scrumples [As Qc]
Scrumples: raises 150 to 200
poilu1: folds
pfz1982: calls 200
goodwooter: folds
**Leech67**: folds
*** FLOP *** [Qh 4d Qd]
Scrumples: checks
pfz1982: checks
*** TURN *** [Qh 4d Qd] [Kd]
Scrumples: bets 50
pfz1982: calls 50
*** RIVER *** [Qh 4d Qd Kd] [Ah]
Scrumples: bets 450
pfz1982: raises 650 to 1100
Scrumples: raises 2370 to 3470 and is all-in
pfz1982: calls 2370
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Scrumples: shows [As Qc] (a full house, Queens full of Aces)
pfz1982: shows [Kh Qs] (a full house, Queens full of Kings)
Scrumples collected 7515 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 7515 | Rake 0
Board [Qh 4d Qd Kd Ah]
Seat 1: **Leech67** (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: Scrumples showed [As Qc] and won (7515) with a full house, Queens full of Aces
Seat 6: poilu1 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: pfz1982 (button) showed [Kh Qs] and lost with a full house, Queens full of Kings
Seat 9: goodwooter (small blind) folded before Flop

[Edited on July 15, 2008 at 12:20 AM. Reason : I couldnt see either of us getting off of that hand...]

7/15/2008 12:14:37 AM

Mr Scrumples
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LMAO

Quote :
"Hello Scrumples,

We have received a complaint regarding your use of inappropriate
language at our tables. After reviewing the chat log (see below), it
was decided to remove your chat privileges for a period of 1 month.
Your language was offensive and completely unacceptable.

We implemented a feature that blocks out (replaces with ***) specific
inappropriate words. This serves as a first warning. If you type
something which is blocked then this tells you that what you are
typing is not acceptable. If you choose to somehow bypass this
restriction (obviously there are many ways), then you are
intentionally breaking the rules.

Our games are to be kept clean, fun, and a comfortable environment for
everyone. We will not tolerate this type of behavior at our tables.

Please note that you may not be the only one receiving a message such
as this. When we receive a chat complaint, we review the entire chat
of all players at the table. Any other offenders at the table were
also warned or revoked as appropriate to our policies.

Your chat privileges will be reinstated in one month.


Regards,

Kiet
PokerStars Support Team
"


Over this:

Quote :
"199270342 Scrumples gonna BUSSSSSSSSSSSTTTTTT your ass 2 7/15/2008 12:12:28 AM
199270342 Scrumples you have one ugly f ucking mug 2 7/15/2008 12:26:40 AM
199270342 Scrumples thats it i'm blocking your image 2 7/15/2008 12:27:17 AM
199270342 Scrumples either youre getting hands every time or youre playing like s hit 2 7/15/2008 12:33:46 AM"

7/15/2008 11:45:52 AM

NoidRoid
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That'll do it, now write "I will not berate my fellow noobs" 100 times on the blackboard.

7/15/2008 12:31:00 PM

dman ncsu 86
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^ and send us a picture of the blackboard plz

7/15/2008 12:47:51 PM

Mr Scrumples
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He got so mad he complained. I put him on tilt, obviously. His last hand he went in with J2s.

7/15/2008 12:55:11 PM

Grandmaster
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if someone outplays me, sucks out on me, or really pisses me off I usually sharkscope them. If their ROI is terrible and they're in the hole like 1500 dollars or so, I don't hesitate to rub that in.

Other than that I usually never speak in chatbox. "call" "fold" "push" sometimes.

7/15/2008 5:17:47 PM

Mr Scrumples
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I have a month to think about retooling my shit-talking.

7/15/2008 9:14:27 PM

BadPokerPlyr
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The only time I ever "turned someone in" was in 3 way pot after I went all in and one player told the other player what he had. That was before Tilt disabled chat during all-ins. Unless it's something shady, grow a sack or hit the ignore button.

7/15/2008 9:21:35 PM

Mr Scrumples
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i'm so glad i can provide you guys some entertainment with my tom foolery.

7/15/2008 9:31:40 PM

Mr Scrumples
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God I love Intellipoker.

PokerStars Game #18854608865: Tournament #95935313, $1.00+$0.20 Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2008/07/16 - 00:51:11 (ET)
Table '95935313 1' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: Jacksup1122 (2770 in chips)
Seat 2: pjm34744 (1190 in chips)
Seat 3: conny22 (1110 in chips)
Seat 4: 3xlegallimit (530 in chips)
Seat 5: Scrumples (2110 in chips)
Seat 6: pkrmom44 (2770 in chips)
Seat 7: mike1285 (2585 in chips)
Seat 9: Dan-Dan007 (435 in chips)
mike1285: posts small blind 15
Dan-Dan007: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Scrumples [Qd Jd]
Jacksup1122: folds
pjm34744: calls 30
conny22: raises 30 to 60
3xlegallimit: folds
Scrumples: calls 60
pkrmom44: folds
mike1285: folds
Dan-Dan007: calls 30
pjm34744: calls 30
*** FLOP *** [2c 7d Qh]
Dan-Dan007: checks
pjm34744: checks
conny22: bets 150
Scrumples: calls 150
Dan-Dan007: folds
pjm34744: calls 150
*** TURN *** [2c 7d Qh] [3h]
pjm34744: checks
conny22: bets 180
Scrumples: calls 180
pjm34744: folds
*** RIVER *** [2c 7d Qh 3h] [7s]
conny22: bets 720 and is all-in
Scrumples: calls 720
*** SHOW DOWN ***
conny22: shows [5d 5h] (two pair, Sevens and Fives)
Scrumples: shows [Qd Jd] (two pair, Queens and Sevens)
Scrumples collected 2505 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2505 | Rake 0
Board [2c 7d Qh 3h 7s]
Seat 1: Jacksup1122 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: pjm34744 folded on the Turn
Seat 3: conny22 showed [5d 5h] and lost with two pair, Sevens and Fives
Seat 4: 3xlegallimit folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Scrumples showed [Qd Jd] and won (2505) with two pair, Queens and Sevens
Seat 6: pkrmom44 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: mike1285 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: Dan-Dan007 (big blind) folded on the Flop

7/16/2008 12:53:05 AM

The Dude
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so what exactly is intellipoker?

I'm at work and all the sites explaining what it is are blocked.

7/16/2008 6:59:43 AM

Grandmaster
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it's a german ran poker school/tutorial/blog site that is owned and sponsored by pokerstars themselves.

7/16/2008 7:54:10 AM

Mr Scrumples
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ironically that fucker got in my head BIG TIME as I made a really donk call with 2 pair on a very connected board against some other douche and busted that one out in 4th last night.

[Edited on July 16, 2008 at 9:18 AM. Reason : k]

7/16/2008 9:17:55 AM

IMStoned420
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This isn't Chit Chat so hopefully I won't get flamed outta here but...

I've recently in the past month or so started playing a lot. I haven't gotten to the point where I'm comfortable putting money onto a site yet, but I've been playing in a lot of freerolls at Pokerstars. Pretty much every kind there is: Hold'em, Omaha, Razz, Stud, everything. I've gotten to the point where I can finish high enough consistently to make both of the Weekly Round 2 freerolls at the end of the week but I've yet to finish in the money there yet because everyone plays so tight in those tournaments and I don't have enough experience to know how to adjust yet. I'm basically just looking for any tips or tricks or things to read that might make me a better player and before I start losing money on these sites. Any advice would be appreciated.

7/16/2008 2:19:35 PM

BadPokerPlyr
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to quote dman...

Quote :
"Harrington Books 1,2, and 3
Theory of Poker
Tournament Poker for Advanced Players

Read those --> profit."


I'd start off with the harrington books first.

7/16/2008 3:01:42 PM

Mr Scrumples
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Did anybody catch the Phil Hellmuth cash game meltdown last night on Poker After Dark?

Hilarity.

7/16/2008 3:06:27 PM

IMStoned420
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I've seen a couple of Youtube videos of him. Dude melts down every time he loses...

7/16/2008 3:19:56 PM

Mr Scrumples
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Look at this stupidity

PokerStars Game #18866147344: Tournament #96026215, $1.00+$0.20 Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2008/07/16 - 15:20:04 (ET)
Table '96026215 4' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: woodcrusher (1500 in chips)
Seat 3: Zinitack (3020 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 4: crosssky (2320 in chips)
Seat 5: 66 big ed (1220 in chips)
Seat 6: Peter.Veen (3110 in chips)
Seat 7: valdecism (1370 in chips)
Seat 8: Scrumples (960 in chips)
Scrumples: posts small blind 10
woodcrusher: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Scrumples [7s 7c]
Zinitack: folds
crosssky: folds
66 big ed: calls 20
Peter.Veen: folds
valdecism: raises 60 to 80
Scrumples: calls 70
woodcrusher: folds
66 big ed: calls 60
*** FLOP *** [3d 8d 5c]
Scrumples: bets 100
66 big ed: raises 100 to 200
valdecism: raises 100 to 300
Scrumples: raises 580 to 880 and is all-in
rastaforien is connected
66 big ed: calls 680
valdecism: calls 580
*** TURN *** [3d 8d 5c] [Js]
Zinitack is disconnected
66 big ed: checks
valdecism: bets 259
66 big ed: calls 259
*** RIVER *** [3d 8d 5c Js] [Ac]
66 big ed: bets 1 and is all-in
valdecism: calls 1
*** SHOW DOWN ***
66 big ed: shows [2d 3c] (a pair of Threes)
valdecism: shows [Ad Tc] (a pair of Aces)
valdecism collected 520 from side pot
Scrumples: shows [7s 7c] (a pair of Sevens)
valdecism collected 2900 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3420 Main pot 2900. Side pot 520. | Rake 0
Board [3d 8d 5c Js Ac]
Seat 1: woodcrusher (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: Zinitack folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: crosssky folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: 66 big ed showed [2d 3c] and lost with a pair of Threes
Seat 6: Peter.Veen folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: valdecism (button) showed [Ad Tc] and won (3420) with a pair of Aces
Seat 8: Scrumples (small blind) showed [7s 7c] and lost with a pair of Sevens

7/16/2008 3:23:35 PM

Mr Scrumples
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ok, so i started doing these multi table SNGs because stars is fuxored right now...Good God, and you people thought this level was retarded for a 1 table...

7/16/2008 3:33:47 PM

dman ncsu 86
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Quote :
"This isn't Chit Chat so hopefully I won't get flamed outta here but...

I've recently in the past month or so started playing a lot. I haven't gotten to the point where I'm comfortable putting money onto a site yet, but I've been playing in a lot of freerolls at Pokerstars. Pretty much every kind there is: Hold'em, Omaha, Razz, Stud, everything. I've gotten to the point where I can finish high enough consistently to make both of the Weekly Round 2 freerolls at the end of the week but I've yet to finish in the money there yet because everyone plays so tight in those tournaments and I don't have enough experience to know how to adjust yet. I'm basically just looking for any tips or tricks or things to read that might make me a better player and before I start losing money on these sites. Any advice would be appreciated."


Also for pure basics i'd throw in Phil Gordon's Little Green Book, although I don't like him too much as a player, some of the basic concepts throughout the book are definitely solid.

7/16/2008 6:12:44 PM

sNuwPack
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as far as tourney poker goes, harrington on holdem is a good series, although i think volume 3 is bit useless, haha but maybe not....anyway, do you guys chop here?

$85 buy in live tourney, about 45 entrants, we are down to top six. blinds are 2k/4k. average stack size is prob like 15k, i have 13k, no huge big stacks or short stacks. I feel very good about my shorthanded tournament endgame. blinds are obviously huge compared to stacks. some good players left in the field, but i like my edge.

payout structure: (approximate)

1st: 1200
2nd: 540
3rd: 430
4th: 300
5th: 240
6th: 180

6 way chop pays like 513 (i didn't check to see if the math works out, but basically 6 way chop pays close to 2nd place money, but not quite). obvious chop situation despite endgame edge with blinds so high or what? assume relatively small br.

7/16/2008 7:15:39 PM

dman ncsu 86
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Easy chop if your on the button when discussion of chopping starts.

Easier chop if your on the BB...


If you had maybe 40k, perhaps a bit dif situation but w/ 3BB....crapshoot...

[Edited on July 16, 2008 at 7:30 PM. Reason : .]

7/16/2008 7:29:27 PM

sNuwPack
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yea i mean and the blinds were about to double again soon i think, lol. but i mean i prob am giving up a small edge there itlr, but i mean i guess i'm paying a small premium for way less variance so i guess it's worth it, certainly on a snug br.

1200 is a whole lot more than 500 though, haha. i mean if i figure i'm making top 4 very often, and when i get that far top 2 fairly often, might be better to just go for it....idk.

7/17/2008 2:38:40 PM

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